Are Christians Sabbatarian?

[Red Baker]

Are Christians Sabbatarian?

In the OT there is a certain word that we can draw a wonderful, important truth from and learn a valuable lesson from it, and it is......... "Nehushtan!"
2nd Kings 18:4
“He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.”

Israel became discouraged on the way to Canaan and complained against God and Moses, so the LORD sent fiery serpents among them, which bit and killed many. When the living repented and begged for mercy, God told Moses to make a brass replica of a fiery serpent and put it on a pole. If any person bitten by a fiery serpent looked at the brass serpent, he would live. Moses did as God told him, and Israel survived by looking at the brass serpent. See Number 21:4-9 for the whole history.

The superstitious Jews foolishly presumed this brass serpent Moses had made would have residual religious value, so they worshipped it for another 800 years! When the godly and righteous King Hezekiah reformed the nation, he found this religious relic and finally destroyed it. When he destroyed it, he mocked it with a name, Nehushtan! A mere thing of brass!

The Jewish Sabbath, taken out of its place as part of Old Testament ceremonial worship for Israel only, is just a day of the week now, no different than Monday thru Friday. Nehushtan! It is only a day of the week! It has no value; it has no power; it has no role; it is a snare to the ignorant and superstitious. Just as the brasen serpent made by Moses for that time period and situation. Leave it to Israel under the Old Testament, where it belong, it is Nehushtan for NT Christian, it has served it purpose for which it was given, and even Israel did not fully comprehend their own Sabbath restrictions and use it for their own advantage when it served for their purpose and judge others of breaking it even when they did acts of mercy, and even doing responsibilities acts that had to be done, but, the religious being governed by their own wicked hearts and not the word of God think nothing of pleasing self when what they are doing is for them, but are quick to judge their fellow man when they do acts of mercy. They forget that the man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath for man profit and well being.

Christian or Sabbatarian? One cannot be both. Let us discuss if one can be both, which we know you cannot be a NT Christian and live under the Jewish Sabbath days, and to add to that error, expect other to do the same, and then judge them not to be of God for not doing so.

So, the burden of proof lays squarely on the Sabbatarians shoulders to prove that we are under Moses' Law of the Sabbaths days. I say Nehushtan! It is nothing for us under the NT. The profit of the seven day Sabbath of rest we can benefit of resting our bodies, as much as we can at least one out of seven days, whatever that day be for the reader, just as we rest our fields by rotating planting crops by resting a certain portion one out of seven years, that a wise farmer fearing God knows to do.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman I made this post so we can discuss the Jewish Sabbath, and with any other person who desires to do so. I'll make another post later today, the Lord willing.

 

[Red Baker]

Philippians 3:1-4~"Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:"

Christian or Sabbatarianism, you "cannot be both", or even try to blend them into a perfect marriage, for God has never joined the two together and never will. Paul gave us a warning that any wise, sincere, lover of Jesus Christ's gospel must heed. He calls men who have confidence in their flesh, and trust their flesh to be able to please God apart from totally trusting in the cross of Jesus Christ for their "only" right to enter into eternal life in the world to come "as dogs"! Always barking at the heels of the men and women who put their trust solely in Jesus' faith and obedience as their surety to enter into eternal life. Paul said BEWARE of these evil workers. workers still cleaving to the OT works of the flesh.

True servants of God are those men and women who worship God in the spirit, while rejoicing in Jesus Christ fulfilling the law in their place, being unable to do so themselves, because of the weakness of their sinful flesh being unable to do any works in flesh that could be accepted by the God as a fulfillment of the deeds of the law, since, even plowing of the wicked is sinful not being done in faith trusting God for the results!

Proverbs 21:4​

“An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.”

Everything a wicked man does is sin. God rejects his looks, heart, actions. He is deeper in trouble every day (Romans 2:5). Even innocent things like his plowing are sin, if not done in faith. (Titus 1:15,15). God once drowned the world when He saw man’s every thought was evil (Genesis 6:5).

Christians follow and glorify the Lord Jesus Christ ~ not Moses, not Israel, not the Law, not the Jewish Sabbath. Exalting these pitiful substitutes that passed away long ago rejects and dishonors Jesus Christ. Sunday, the Lord’s Day, is a weekly privilege to glorify Jesus Christ on the day He ordained for worship. Christians always take N.T. ordinances and tradition over O.T. ceremonial or national laws.

Later, much more to come.

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[Red Baker]

@Studyman

Christian or Sabbatarianism, you "cannot be both", or even try to blend them into a perfect marriage, for God has never joined the two together and never will. Paul gave us a warning that any wise, sincere, lover of Jesus Christ's gospel must heed. He calls men who have confidence in their flesh, and trust their flesh to be able to please God apart from totally trusting in the cross of Jesus Christ for their "only" right to enter into eternal life in the world to come "as dogs"! Always barking at the heels of the men and women who put their trust solely in Jesus' faith and obedience as their surety to enter into eternal life. Paul said BEWARE of these evil workers. workers still cleaving to the OT works of the flesh.

Let us add another post to this all important subject.

There are a few cults, major and lessors one down to those who live on a Island of self-righteousness that make no bones about their beliefs in trusting and placing confidence in the power of the flesh of doing spiritual acts that God is well please in.

Seventh-Day Adventists and their imitators a particular day as the essential (Saturday) as being the day that makes them God's peoples as though God is well please with them doing so. They exalt Moses and the O.T. over Jesus and Paul and the N.T. They choose shadows over reality … law works over grace … carnal ordinances over spiritual … bondage over liberty. They exalt a calendar day over the finished work of Christ. They reject the Lord’s spiritual fulfillment and abolition of the Sabbath for a worldly yoke of bondage.

Paul’s greatest burden was fighting such Jewish legalists. False teachers followed him, creeping into churches and corrupting Gentile believers with O.T. superstition "about circumcision, (now it is water baptism) dietary laws, and the Sabbath. Most of Galatians and Hebrews, and much of Romans, Ephesians, Philippians, and Colossians, were written to oppose them. These heretics chose Moses and meats over Jesus and His gospel.

Rejecting celebration of the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ and His day for beggarly bondage of the Jewish Sabbath is heresy and superstition. Christians "never" assembled as Christians on Saturday after resurrection morning. The Lord of the Sabbath had abolished it at His resurrection, after nailing that carnal and worldly ordinance to His cross, when He became the reality and fulfillment of its shadow.

After the Lord's resurrection It was a new day …. literally, the first day of the week … spiritually, the gospel Day called Today … covenantally, the New Testament of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The issue is simple. What is the N.T. day for religious worship? Is it Saturday, a carnal ordinance Moses brought down from Mt. Sinai and imposed on Israel until Jesus and His apostles? Or is it Sunday, the day on which Jesus Christ appeared to His assembled apostles and blessed them, who all kept that day from then on?

Four simple, conclusive passages : Colossians 2L16,17; Galatians 4; !st Corinthians 16:1,2; Acts 20:6,7. Are more than enough for noble readers (Acts 17:11).

Galatians 4:21​

“Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?”

You cannot be a child of God's promises through Christ, and a Sabbatarian, all Sabbatarian will be cast out.

@Studyman @FreeInChrist

 

[Dizerner]

As long as you don't make it binding.

 

[Studyman]

@Studyman I made this post so we can discuss the Jewish Sabbath, and with any other person who desires to do so. I'll make another post later today, the Lord willing.

I am not now, nor have I ever been interested in the "Jewish Sabbath". Jesus didn't walk in the "Jewish sabbath", neither did John the Baptist, Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, the Apostles or any other Faithful follower of God. The Pharisees did, the corrupt priests throughout the Law and Prophets did, and promoted it to others as Moses, the Prophets, and the Jesus "of the Bible" tells you, if you were to consider believing them. The Church of God has always, both under the Old Priesthood (Order of Aaron) and the New Priesthood (Order of Melchizedek), walked in the Commandments of God, including but not limited to, God's Holy Sabbath.

You are free to make a post promoting the "Jewish sabbath" or the "Catholic sabbath" or the "Islamic sabbath" or any other sabbath of this world's religious system if you like.

But I won't be joining you in your promotions.

 

[FreeInChrist]

@Studyman

Let us add another post to this all important subject.

There are a few cults, major and lessors one down to those who live on a Island of self-righteousness that make no bones about their beliefs in trusting and placing confidence in the power of the flesh of doing spiritual acts that God is well please in.

Seventh-Day Adventists and their imitators a particular day as the essential (Saturday) as being the day that makes them God's peoples as though God is well please with them doing so. They exalt Moses and the O.T. over Jesus and Paul and the N.T. They choose shadows over reality … law works over grace … carnal ordinances over spiritual … bondage over liberty. They exalt a calendar day over the finished work of Christ. They reject the Lord’s spiritual fulfillment and abolition of the Sabbath for a worldly yoke of bondage.

Paul’s greatest burden was fighting such Jewish legalists. False teachers followed him, creeping into churches and corrupting Gentile believers with O.T. superstition "about circumcision, (now it is water baptism) dietary laws, and the Sabbath. Most of Galatians and Hebrews, and much of Romans, Ephesians, Philippians, and Colossians, were written to oppose them. These heretics chose Moses and meats over Jesus and His gospel.

Rejecting celebration of the resurrected Lord Jesus Christ and His day for beggarly bondage of the Jewish Sabbath is heresy and superstition. Christians "never" assembled as Christians on Saturday after resurrection morning. The Lord of the Sabbath had abolished it at His resurrection, after nailing that carnal and worldly ordinance to His cross, when He became the reality and fulfillment of its shadow.

After the Lord's resurrection It was a new day …. literally, the first day of the week … spiritually, the gospel Day called Today … covenantally, the New Testament of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The issue is simple. What is the N.T. day for religious worship? Is it Saturday, a carnal ordinance Moses brought down from Mt. Sinai and imposed on Israel until Jesus and His apostles? Or is it Sunday, the day on which Jesus Christ appeared to His assembled apostles and blessed them, who all kept that day from then on?

Four simple, conclusive passages : Colossians 2L16,17; Galatians 4; !st Corinthians 16:1,2; Acts 20:6,7. Are more than enough for noble readers (Acts 17:11).

Galatians 4:21​

“Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?”

You cannot be a child of God's promises through Christ, and a Sabbatarian, all Sabbatarian will be cast out.

@Studyman @FreeInChrist

Question to consider.

Did Jesus observe the Sabbath? The Friday night to Saturday night one?

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

He calls men who have confidence in their flesh, and trust their flesh to be able to please God apart from totally trusting in the cross of Jesus Christ for their "only" right to enter into eternal life in the world to come "as dogs"! Always barking at the heels of the men and women who put their trust solely in Jesus' faith and obedience as their surety to enter into eternal life. Paul said BEWARE of these evil workers. workers still cleaving to the OT works of the flesh.

Following the Sabbath as given TO ISRAEL, regardless who did, or did follow according to God's purpose of giving the Sabbath day of rest, is only part of Sabbatarianism, it also includes taste not, touch not, go not, be not, wear not, etc., etc., etc.,!
Do you teach Christians can not eat meat lover Pizza with any pork on it? Then you are a Sabbatarian. Do you teach works as as a means of justification, like water baptism, then you fall under the concision followers. Read carefully Philippians 3:1-9. it is just not observing the literal Sabbath day of rest as the day of worship, but is much broader.

Acts 15:1​

“And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.”

Acts 15:24​

“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”

Acts 15:28,29​

“For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well."

Not a single word concerning keeping the Sabbath day, etc. Yet if you were there, you would have said to James~"I have heard of this philosophy many times before. But have come to understand the danger and warnings of looking to or believing voices outside the Holy Scriptures, for knowledge about God and His Son." And many more such things that you use over and over again.

I'm leaving for a few hours, be back alter to address this more.

 

[Kermos]

Are Christians Sabbatarian?

In the OT there is a certain word that we can draw a wonderful, important truth from and learn a valuable lesson from it, and it is......... "Nehushtan!"
2nd Kings 18:4
“He removed the high places, and brake the images, and cut down the groves, and brake in pieces the brasen serpent that Moses had made: for unto those days the children of Israel did burn incense to it: and he called it Nehushtan.”

Israel became discouraged on the way to Canaan and complained against God and Moses, so the LORD sent fiery serpents among them, which bit and killed many. When the living repented and begged for mercy, God told Moses to make a brass replica of a fiery serpent and put it on a pole. If any person bitten by a fiery serpent looked at the brass serpent, he would live. Moses did as God told him, and Israel survived by looking at the brass serpent. See Number 21:4-9 for the whole history.

The superstitious Jews foolishly presumed this brass serpent Moses had made would have residual religious value, so they worshipped it for another 800 years! When the godly and righteous King Hezekiah reformed the nation, he found this religious relic and finally destroyed it. When he destroyed it, he mocked it with a name, Nehushtan! A mere thing of brass!

The Jewish Sabbath, taken out of its place as part of Old Testament ceremonial worship for Israel only, is just a day of the week now, no different than Monday thru Friday. Nehushtan! It is only a day of the week! It has no value; it has no power; it has no role; it is a snare to the ignorant and superstitious. Just as the brasen serpent made by Moses for that time period and situation. Leave it to Israel under the Old Testament, where it belong, it is Nehushtan for NT Christian, it has served it purpose for which it was given, and even Israel did not fully comprehend their own Sabbath restrictions and use it for their own advantage when it served for their purpose and judge others of breaking it even when they did acts of mercy, and even doing responsibilities acts that had to be done, but, the religious being governed by their own wicked hearts and not the word of God think nothing of pleasing self when what they are doing is for them, but are quick to judge their fellow man when they do acts of mercy. They forget that the man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath for man profit and well being.

Christian or Sabbatarian? One cannot be both. Let us discuss if one can be both, which we know you cannot be a NT Christian and live under the Jewish Sabbath days, and to add to that error, expect other to do the same, and then judge them not to be of God for not doing so.

So, the burden of proof lays squarely on the Sabbatarians shoulders to prove that we are under Moses' Law of the Sabbaths days. I say Nehushtan! It is nothing for us under the NT. The profit of the seven day Sabbath of rest we can benefit of resting our bodies, as much as we can at least one out of seven days, whatever that day be for the reader, just as we rest our fields by rotating planting crops by resting a certain portion one out of seven years, that a wise farmer fearing God knows to do.

I do enjoy reading your posts!

Christ is my Sabbath (rest).

God bless you!

 

[Studyman]

Christian or Sabbatarianism, you "cannot be both",

AGAIN, the entire foundation of this post is based on a lie, a deception. a falsehood. Even the great Calvinist, must surely know that the Church of God as defined in the Holy Scriptures, that the rebellious Jews persecuted for centuries, were humble followers who "Yielded themselves" unto God's Commandments. They didn't call those who Loved God, as the Commandment requires, "Loveitarians", nor did they call those who Honored and Respected God in His Commandment concerning coveting, "Covetarians". The arguments of your post are sophomoric and wicked. The implication that I can't be a faithful believer, like Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, David Shadrack, Cornelius, Paul etc., and respect and Honor God in His commandments at the same time, is absurd.

And yet, that is the foundation of your post.

or even try to blend them into a perfect marriage, for God has never joined the two together and never will.

It is true in that the Religious system of this world your post promotes, that calls Jesus Lord, Lord, but rejects His Instruction concerning whose Words to Live By, will never be joined to the Body of Christ.

Paul gave us a warning that any wise, sincere, lover of Jesus Christ's gospel must heed. He calls men who have confidence in their flesh, and trust their flesh to be able to please God apart from totally trusting in the cross of Jesus Christ for their "only" right to enter into eternal life in the world to come "as dogs"!

Actually He said, "Give not that "which is holy" unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

The very Christ who became a man, created a day to be set apart from the other 6 days, and HE called it "Holy unto the Lord". Which of course, explains why Jesus said it was "Made for man", and that HE was the Lord of this Holy Day.

Perhaps this is why God's Holy Sabbath isn't written on your heart..

Always barking at the heels of the men and women who put their trust solely in Jesus' faith and obedience as their surety to enter into eternal life.

Your faith, as defined by your posts, is obedience to the Catholic religion and Calvinist Philosophy. If you trusted the Jesus "of the bible", you would be a "Doer" of His Sayings, not a denier of them.

Paul said BEWARE of these evil workers. workers still cleaving to the OT works of the flesh.

Again, your post reflects what is in your heart, they do not reflect what Paul actually teaches.

Col. 2: 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, (Like always calling God's Commandments, "Jewish Laws", a perfect example of "Vain deceit) after the tradition of men, (God's commandments are not the Traditions of men, contrary to the implications of your many posts) after the rudiments "of the world", (God's Commandments are from above, not of this world) and not after Christ.

Walking in God's Laws is called "Walking in the Spirit". Walking after the imaginations of your own heart, is called "walking in the Flesh".

You can find these truths in the Holy Bible.

True servants of God are those men and women who worship God in the spirit, while rejoicing in Jesus Christ fulfilling the law in their place, being unable to do so themselves,

This part of your post is an insidious lie and a continuation of the perpetual evil and wicked judgments against God that is and has always been prevalent in this world's religious system. The popular religious philosophy of this world your post promotes, that God/Christ gave men Laws and instruction in righteousness, but withheld from them, and lied to them about their ability to humble themselves and obey Him, and then killed them by the thousands when they disobeyed Him, is no doubt one of the most evil and Anti-Christ teaching on this entire earth. A teaching that the serpent in the garden started, and your post is furthering.

This is why so many people are starting to actually read the Christ's words, and are relying less on the philosophies of the hypocrites Jesus warned about in their man-made shrines of worship, and their alms before men.

because of the weakness of their sinful flesh being unable to do any works in flesh that could be accepted by the God as a fulfillment of the deeds of the law, since, even plowing of the wicked is sinful not being done in faith trusting God for the results!

God's Commandments were made for man, at least this is what the Bible teaches.. They are there for the express purpose of "Ruling over the Flesh". We can see this in the story of Eve. Men don't believe that, because they have no Faith in God, just as Eve had no Faith in God. If they had Faith, they would reject the "other voices" in the garden, and Live by the Words the Jesus "of the Bible" instructed men to Live By, trusting that HE was telling you the truth about God's Righteousness.

Instead, your posts Judge God and much of His Word as unworthy of respect and honor.

Everything a wicked man does is sin. God rejects his looks, heart, actions.

Yes, there is no truth in a man who Judges God and His Way as "Beggarly Elements" or a "Yoke of Bondage", even if he calls Jesus Lord, Lord. There is "NO Truth" in a man who preaches such wickedness about God, that HE lied to His Own People, and placed on the necks of men who placed their trust and Faith in Him, Laws impossible to obey, and then killed them when they didn't obey.

He is deeper in trouble every day (Romans 2:5). Even innocent things like his plowing are sin, if not done in faith. (Titus 1:15,15). God once drowned the world when He saw man’s every thought was evil (Genesis 6:5).

Jesus said it would be the same in our time. Your posts confirm His Prophesy.

Christians follow and glorify the Lord Jesus Christ ~ not Moses, not Israel, not the Law, not the Jewish Sabbath.

They don't follow and Glorify the Jesus "of the bible", if they did, they would believe Moses and the Prophets and Live by God's Commandments. And also not follow the commandments of men the rebellious Jews taught for doctrines.

Exalting these pitiful substitutes that passed away long ago rejects and dishonors Jesus Christ.

Your posts have made it clear that you consider the God and Father of the Lord's Christ "Pitiful", given your wicked judgments against Him and your wholesale rejection of His Instruction in Righteousness. And you are not the first. The unfaithful Jews dishonored and disrespected the Same God and Father, and blew off the teaching of their redeemer this same God sent to them.

The lack of honor and respect for God that your posts so easily and shamelessly display is a testimony of the conscious being seared with a hot iron. Even though you have been told that Jesus is the Advocate between you and this very God, and that you have no Hope at all, unless this God gives you to the Christ, Yet you call Him and His Laws "Pitiful Substitutes".

Truly, "There is no fear of God before their eyes".

Sunday, the Lord’s Day, is a weekly privilege to glorify Jesus Christ on the day He ordained for worship.

The Christ "of the Bible" never ordained the 1st Day of the Week to worship Him. The RCC ordained the 1st day of the week to worship an image of God in the likeness of a handsome, long haired man. But the Jesus of the Bible never "Ordained" a day for worship. He walked in the Commandments of God, where His Father Ordained the 7th Day as Holy and a fast from the world.

You cannot find ONE place in the entire Bible where Jesus "Ordain3d" the 1st Day of the Week for anything. And you know this is true, because you can't post anything from God or Moses or the Prophets, or the Apostles, where the 1st Day was "Ordained".

And yet, your post still promotes the philosophy.

Christians always take N.T. ordinances and tradition over O.T. ceremonial or national laws.

Maybe you and Kenneth Copeland and Constantine promote such a teaching.

But the Jesus "of the Bible, and the First Church of God under HIS Prophesied New Priesthood, "After the Order of Melchizedek", honored and respected God and His Instruction in Righteousness, and they received the Spirit of God who God gives to them that obey Him.

Maybe you should be renewed in the spirit of your mind, maybe God might share His Spirit with you as well.

 

[civic]

I am not now, nor have I ever been interested in the "Jewish Sabbath". Jesus didn't walk in the "Jewish sabbath", neither did John the Baptist, Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, the Apostles or any other Faithful follower of God. The Pharisees did, the corrupt priests throughout the Law and Prophets did, and promoted it to others as Moses, the Prophets, and the Jesus "of the Bible" tells you, if you were to consider believing them. The Church of God has always, both under the Old Priesthood (Order of Aaron) and the New Priesthood (Order of Melchizedek), walked in the Commandments of God, including but not limited to, God's Holy Sabbath.

You are free to make a post promoting the "Jewish sabbath" or the "Catholic sabbath" or the "Islamic sabbath" or any other sabbath of this world's religious system if you like.

But I won't be joining you in your promotions.

Define " Gods Holy Sabbath " for us.

 

[FreeInChrist]

I am not now, nor have I ever been interested in the "Jewish Sabbath". Jesus didn't walk in the "Jewish sabbath",

Yes He did because He came to fulfill the law and the Sabbath was a command by His father.

He came for the lost sheep of Israel, and to do that He could not be perceived as a lawbreaker.

Until YOU learn the Messianic ties that Jesus had with the lost of Israel, you will never truly understand about the man Jesus.
Or why He had to have his last supper, trial, crucifixion, burial, and resurrection "AROUND" the key hours of the Passover and Weekly Sabbath. The were instigated by his Dad, and they were important to His people.

I have seen it before but this anti-semitism is getting more pronounced on here, and elsewhere. Dont deny it.

Always remember if it were not for a little Jewish baby born into the world, you, we all, would be on a yellow brick road to hell.

neither did John the Baptist, Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, the Apostles or any other Faithful follower of God. The Pharisees did, the corrupt priests throughout the Law and Prophets did, and promoted it to others as Moses, the Prophets, and the Jesus "of the Bible" tells you, if you were to consider believing them. The Church of God has always, both under the Old Priesthood (Order of Aaron) and the New Priesthood (Order of Melchizedek), walked in the Commandments of God, including but not limited to, God's Holy Sabbath.

You are free to make a post promoting the "Jewish sabbath" or the "Catholic sabbath" or the "Islamic sabbath" or any other sabbath of this world's religious system if you like.

But I won't be joining you in your promotions.

I am not inviting you to.

 

[Studyman]

@Studyman

Following the Sabbath as given TO ISRAEL, regardless who did, or did follow according to God's purpose of giving the Sabbath day of rest, is only part of Sabbatarianism, it also includes taste not, touch not, go not, be not, wear not, etc., etc., etc.,!

This part of your post is another example of man's wicked judgment against God, and the Falsehoods about God your posts represent.

Mark. 7: 6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments "of men". (Not God as your posts falsely teaches over and over)

8 For "laying aside" the commandment of God, "ye hold the tradition of men", (NOT God's Commandments, as your posts constantly lie about) as the washing of pots and cups: "and many other such like things ye do". 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye "reject" the commandment of God, that ye may keep "your own tradition".

Paul understood this.

Col. 2: 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, (Not God's Instruction in righteousness, as your posts falsely represent every day) why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines "of men"? (Not the Commandments of God as your posts falsely promote)

Your posts represents the teaching of a religion that has completely rejected the Words of the Christ "of the Bible" where the "Jews Religion" is concerned.

It is a wicked and evil lie and judgment against God and there is no Scriptural support for the teaching, that God's Laws are "Rudiments of this world" and "Beggarly Elements" or a "Yoke of Bondage" that HE placed on the necks of those who trusted Him.

Yet that leaven is the very foundation of the philosophies promoted in your posted sermons.

You want to convince me and anyone who will listen to your posts, that the "Pharisees Religion", or as Paul called is, "The Jews religion" was founded on obedience to God's Laws. The entire foundation of EVERY post you make, is based on the insidious falsehood that the rebellious Jews were living by, and promoting God's Laws.

This is simply not true Red. They rejected God's "touch not, taste not, handle not", "and set it aside", full well rejected it, so they might walk in their own "touch not, taste not, handle not", after the traditions of man, and not after the Commandment of God.

Like the religious system of this world you are here to promote, they created their own Sabbath, their own "thou shall not kill". They even told you, "We have a Law, and by "OUR LAW" Jesus, the most perfect human being ever born of a woman, should die. But there was NO Law of God that condemned Jesus.

It's right there in your own Bible.

Until you come to terms with this undeniable Biblical Truth, it would be futile to continue attempting to discuss Scriptures with you.

 

[Studyman]

Yes He did because He came to fulfill the law and the Sabbath was a command by His father.

No FIC. The "Jews" had polluted God's Sabbaths, rejected His Judgments and were teaching for doctrines "The commandments of men". Jesus walked in, as I posted, God's Sabbath, not the "Jewish Sabbath" that HE Himself set apart and Sanctified at creation. Zacharias, Simeon, David, Shadrack, John the Baptists, these men walked in God's Sabbaths. The rebellious Jews and Pharisees walked in the "Jewish Sabbaths".

You are I were placed by God into a world with religions who have taught us since our youth that the rebellious "Jews/Pharisees" were living by and promoting God's Laws.

Just as Jesus was placed by God into the same world with religions who taught that it was against God's Sabbath Commandment to help someone on God's Sabbaths, or take a walk in fellowship with others believers and pick a blackberry to eat along the way.

Both teachings are false, and the Scriptures expose them as so. Jesus should know, given HE is the Lord of the Sabbath Days.

He came for the lost sheep of Israel, and to do that He could not be perceived as a lawbreaker.

And yet, the Pharisees/Jews "Perceived Him as a Law breaker", and todays mainstream religions of this world, "who come in Christ's Name", preach that Jesus was a Law breaker by healing a sick person on the Sabbath, and refusing to stone the adulterous woman.

And those who strive to be "Doers" of His Sayings, and Live By" the Word's of God, as the Jesus "of the Bible" instructs, will also be perceived as lawbreakers. As Jesus teaches.

"It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?"

Until YOU learn the Messianic ties that Jesus had with the lost of Israel, you will never truly understand about the man Jesus.

Why not start with who the Spirit of God said "Killed Jesus", and go from there. And then consider why Zacharias, Simeon and Anna, Faithful Jews, were not part of the Lost Sheep and knew the Christ before HE was even born, but the people who followed the commandments of men the Chief Priests and Scribes taught for doctrines didn't know and were lost.

Or why He had to have his last supper, trial, crucifixion, burial, and resurrection "AROUND" the key hours of the Passover and Weekly Sabbath. The were instigated by his Dad, and they were important to His people.

I have seen it before but this anti-semitism is getting more pronounced on here, and elsewhere. Dont deny it.

Yes, Jesus, Peter, Stephen and others get a bad wrap by the Jewish internet sites, implying that they were Hypocrite Jew haters, "intending to bring this Christ's blood upon them".

But I understand it was only those Jews who "Professed to know God" but rejected His Commandments that they might walk in their own Laws, who killed the Prophets and Jesus.

You want to imply that men who actually believe what is written in the Law and Prophets, and the Testimony, are antisemites?

I don't believe they are.

Always remember if it were not for a little Jewish baby born into the world, you, we all, would be on a yellow brick road to hell.

Always remember, the DNA of a man's Blood means absolutely Nothing, ZERO. Jesus was Glorified by HIS father, not because of the DNA He was born with, but because of His Works, and His steadfast Faith and obedience to His Father.

At least this is what the Bible teaches.

I am not inviting you to.

My post wasn't addressed to you. Nevertheless, "You are also free to make a post promoting the "Jewish sabbath" or the "Catholic sabbath" or the "Islamic sabbath" or any other sabbath of this world's religious system if you like."

 

[Studyman]

Define " Gods Holy Sabbath " for us.

First you would have to allow God to define "Holy" for you. Paul said this Righteousness of God is revealed in the Gospel of Christ, and that HIS Wrath is also revealed in the Same Gospel where it is written "The Just shall Live by Faith".

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness".

Jesus taught His Disciples from this Gospel, in case you were really interested in the "Way of the Lord".

Luke 24: 27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Perhaps instead of trusting AI to teach you about God's Ways, or asking a random theologian of this world, you could follow the instructions of the Christ "of the bible" and "Seek God's Righteousness" from His Own Words.

After all, God did create His Sabbath for man.

 

[civic]

First you would have to allow God to define "Holy" for you. Paul said this Righteousness of God is revealed in the Gospel of Christ, and that HIS Wrath is also revealed in the Same Gospel where it is written "The Just shall Live by Faith".

"For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness".

Jesus taught His Disciples from this Gospel, in case you were really interested in the "Way of the Lord".

Luke 24: 27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

Perhaps instead of trusting AI to teach you about God's Ways, or asking a random theologian of this world, you could follow the instructions of the Christ "of the bible" and "Seek God's Righteousness" from His Own Words.

After all, God did create His Sabbath for man.

Good to know you have no idea about the term you are using and its meaning- Gods Holy Sabbath

The church is under the New Covenant, established by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. The Bible nowhere describes Christians setting aside the Sabbath day as the day of worship. The only Scriptures that describe Christians in any sense meeting on the Sabbath are in fact pointing to evangelistic efforts at Jewish synagogues, which met on the Sabbath day. Acts 2:46 records the early Christians meeting every day. The Bereans studied the Scriptures every day (Acts 17:11). Acts 20:7 and 1 Corinthians 16:2 both mention Christians meeting on the first day of the week. There is no evidence in the New Testament that the apostles or the early Christians in any sense observed the Sabbath day as the prescribed day of worship.

Traditionally, Christians have held their primary corporate worship services on Sundays, the first day of the week, in celebration of Christ’s resurrection, which occurred on a Sunday (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; John 20:1). It is important to understand, though, that Sunday is not the commanded day of corporate worship, either. There is no explicit biblical command that either Saturday or Sunday be the day of worship. Scriptures such as Romans 14:5–6 and Colossians 2:16 give Christians freedom to observe a special day or to observe every day as special.got?God’s desire is that we worship and serve Him continually, every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

The implication that I can't be a faithful believer, like Zacharias, Simeon, Anna, David Shadrack, Cornelius, Paul etc., and respect and Honor God in His commandments at the same time, is absurd.

And yet, that is the foundation of your post.

You're putting spins on my words to make as though you are being exposed as a two-legged dogs that Paul told us to be beware of, unfairly ...........you want to believe you are only following such righteous saints in the scriptures, when your doctrine said otherwise. Prove that you doctrine is according to the scriptures, is not this the proper way to do dialogues with your opponents? Of course it is, but your ranting spirit is all you have to offer, for you surely do not have truth, you are following men in the scriptures being an evil worker of seeking to do what the false brethren did to the early church, "your true brethren" that you are truly following.

Acts 15:24
“Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:”

The very Christ who became a man, created a day to be set apart from the other 6 days, and HE called it "Holy unto the Lord". Which of course, explains why Jesus said it was "Made for man", and that HE was the Lord of this Holy Day.

In another post, and in another thread I made it very clear to you that one out of seven days man should rest his body, and that day would be different for different folks according to their vocation. I have practice this for over fifty plus years since coming to Christ. In our day, most folks in America used the first day of the week to worship and rest from their labor. I also agree with @civic when he wrote: I truly have no problem with the SDA followers doing so on Saturday, as long as they do not make it a requirement for others, (they can be wrong if they want to be,) but the Lord's day is without question the first day of the week. Per Mark 16:9 and the coma is in its proper place btw, in spite of you desiring to move it to support your doctrine.

Traditionally, Christians have held their primary corporate worship services on Sundays, the first day of the week, in celebration of Christ’s resurrection, which occurred on a Sunday (Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2; Luke 24:1; John 20:1). It is important to understand, though, that Sunday is not the commanded day of corporate worship, either. There is no explicit biblical command that either Saturday or Sunday be the day of worship. Scriptures such as Romans 14:5–6 and Colossians 2:16 give Christians freedom to observe a special day or to observe every day as special.got? God’s desire is that we worship and serve Him continually, every day, not just on Saturday or Sunday.

Your faith, as defined by your posts, is obedience to the Catholic religion and Calvinist Philosophy. If you trusted the Jesus "of the bible", you would be a "Doer" of His Sayings, not a denier of them.

Studyman, what I'm teaching against is your corruption of God's word, this has nothing to do with Catholicism, or, Calvinism. Why not take what I have said and prove it wrong, is this too hard for you to do? It must be, since you never practice this true debating tactics. Here's a reminder for you to seriously consider:

Two intellectually-honest tactics in debating:​

There are only two intellectually-honest debate tactics:

1. pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s facts

2. pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s logic

This you never do, try to do more of this, and maybe we can be profitable more for our readers (the main reason why we are here, at least it should be) and for each other.

This part of your post is an insidious lie and a continuation of the perpetual evil and wicked judgments against God that is and has always been prevalent in this world's religious system. The popular religious philosophy of this world your post promotes, that God/Christ gave men Laws and instruction in righteousness, but withheld from them, and lied to them about their ability to humble themselves and obey Him, and then killed them by the thousands when they disobeyed Him, is no doubt one of the most evil and Anti-Christ teaching on this entire earth. A teaching that the serpent in the garden started, and your post is furthering.

This is why so many people are starting to actually read the Christ's words, and are relying less on the philosophies of the hypocrites Jesus warned about in their man-made shrines of worship, and their alms before men.

You are just making up false accusations without taking what I have actually said, and break it down and prove your point, otherwise you are wasting everyone's time reading your rantings same old words over and over again.

Instead, your posts Judge God and much of His Word as unworthy of respect and honor.

What are you talking about? You just make up things, and spin just about everything you read to protect your evil work of adding to God word by insisting on Sabbath day worship on Saturday, forbidden men to eat certain meats, which God never has forbidden his NT church, teaching men that they must do this and that before we can know we have eternal life, or before we will ever inherit eternal life. Your rellgion makes little of Christ acting as a Surety for God's elect, actually, never heard you ever come close of teaching this blessed truth. On and on I could go.

Your posts have made it clear that you consider the God and Father of the Lord's Christ "Pitiful", given your wicked judgments against Him and your wholesale rejection of His Instruction in Righteousness. And you are not the first. The unfaithful Jews dishonored and disrespected the Same God and Father, and blew off the teaching of their redeemer this same God sent to them.

The lack of honor and respect for God that your posts so easily and shamelessly display is a testimony of the conscious being seared with a hot iron. Even though you have been told that Jesus is the Advocate between you and this very God, and that you have no Hope at all, unless this God gives you to the Christ, Yet you call Him and His Laws "Pitiful Substitutes".

Truly, "There is no fear of God before their eyes".

After this I'm finished with this one post, enough of this nonsense. I have never even hinted of such a wicked things as you are proclaiming I said and do...Again, give proof of what you saying, stop making thing up just to make yourself more credible and believable. This is not true honest tactics in any debating arena.

 

[Red Baker]

Two intellectually-honest tactics in debating:​

There are only two intellectually-honest debate tactics:

1. pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s facts

2. pointing out errors or omissions in your opponent’s logic

@Studyman ~ Just a reminder that we should practice intellectual-honest tactic in this thread, keep from discouraging our readers.

Consider this: In Acts 2 when the apostle Peter preached his sermon which consisted of around 391 words, over 220 (maybe more) were direct quote from the word of God, and the rest were season with the scriptures! What I'm saying? You boast of following men and women of the scriptures, then I say unto you, prove it by following Peter's method using on the word of God to defend your teachings and to disprove my teachings, prove that my facts are wrong, and I'm not being scriptural with what I'm saying with scripture.

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

Mark. 7: 6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me. 7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments "of men". (Not God as your posts falsely teaches over and over)

8 For "laying aside" the commandment of God, "ye hold the tradition of men", (NOT God's Commandments, as your posts constantly lie about) as the washing of pots and cups: "and many other such like things ye do". 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye "reject" the commandment of God, that ye may keep "your own tradition".

Studyman, use words that I have said and then show me where I'm wrong, try to practice a little honestly if you have it in you, which you are making a believer out of me that it is not there.

Which commandment of men do I teach? Show me. Show me where I embrace such silly commandments of washing of pots and cup etc. thinking what goes into man may defile him when I know otherwise, it is YOU that thinks eating a barbecue sandwich, which pork rinds will defile a man, not me. I love BTL sandwiches. I love bacon and sausage with eggs, and southern grits with cheese.

Col. 2: 20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, (Not God's Instruction in righteousness, as your posts falsely represent every day) why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,

21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;

22 Which all are to perish with the using after the commandments and doctrines "of men"? (Not the Commandments of God as your posts falsely promote)

Your posts represents the teaching of a religion that has completely rejected the Words of the Christ "of the Bible" where the "Jews Religion" is concerned.

One more time...show me what you said here: "Your posts represents the teaching of a religion that has completely rejected the Words of the Christ "of the Bible" where the "Jews Religion" is concerned."
All accusations with no proof to back up your false claims. I can show you where your doctrine goes totally against the word of God, need proof?

I'll make a post from Philippians 3:1-9 tonight or early in morning (the Lord willing) to show you that your doctrine makes you guilty of being the person that Paul said to beware of. After I make that post, that come back and prove my words wrong, and then give the correct meaning of such scripture as Philippians 3:9.

Philippians 3:9​

“And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:”

Later....

 

[Fellow Traveler]

I went to a Seventh Day Adventist church 5- or 6-times years ago. I liked it but was not there long enough to get into any of their teaching.

As far as the principle of observing a Sabbath, a day of rest, often with strict prohibitions against work and a focus on worship and spiritual activities. Sunday works for me.




TWISTED SCRIPTURE
Exodus 31:12–17

According to the Seventh-day Adventists and other sabbatarian sects, the fourth commandment is an eternal decree to be obeyed by all throughout the ages. Since the Sabbath is Saturday, the sabbatarians deduce that Christians should be worshiping on the seventh day of the week, not the first. This passage, however, was not addressed to the church but to the children of Israel. Being under the new covenant, Christians are freed from the law of Moses (Rm 6:14; 14:5; Gl 3:24). The primitive church worshiped on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7; 1 Co 16:1–2), commemorating the resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.


31:14–15 For a discussion of why the death penalty for violating the Sabbath does not apply to Christians, see note on 20:8–11.

31:18 The phrase “finger of God” is best understood as an anthropomorphism, that is, a metaphor comparing some aspect of God with the traits of a human being. The phrase does not assert that the Lord God possesses a human body; it affirms that God, and not Moses, was ultimately responsible for the creation of the text inscribed on the stones (cp. 24:12; 32:16; Dt 4:13; 5:22; 9:10). The wording suggests that the means by which the words were recorded was supernatural, but does not indicate the exact method God chose to inscribe them.

32:14 If God never sins, why do some Bible versions translate this verse to indicate that God planned to do evil and then repented? This verse takes its place among a series of passages in the OT that seem to indicate that God does evil (2 Sam 24:16; 1 Ch 21:15; Is 45:7; Jr 18:8; 26:13, 19; Jl 2:13; Jnh 3:10; 4:2). However, the Bible affirms that God is completely righteous (Ps 119:137; Jr 12:1; Jn 17:25; Rv 16:5) and does not repent (Nm 23:19; 1 Sm 15:29). The contradiction is only apparent, and can be resolved by examining the relevant words in the Hebrew language.

The Hebrew word raʿah, translated in some Bible versions as “evil,” actually possesses a broad spectrum of meanings ranging from moral wickedness to “trouble,” without any reference to morality. Applied to the result of God’s action, the term refers to affliction. God will never behave immorally, but He will bring affliction upon those who live in defiance of His will.

Similarly, the Hebrew term nacham is translated in some versions as “repent,” as though one is turning away from a sinful action. It is more accurately translated as “relent,” to decide to pursue a different course of action. As people change their actions and wills, God changes His response to them (Jr 18:8; Jnh 3:10). Although He is prepared to bring affliction (raʿah) upon people because of their sins, He is prepared to relent (nacham) as they repent.


The Apologetics Study Bible: Real Questions, Straight Answers, Stronger Faith