Are Christians Today Required to Keep the Law of Moses?

[praise_yeshua]

God is personal. He called out Abraham by name and made covenant with him.
He called out David and made a covenant with him.
God even called out MY NAME and invaded my life in a very personal way.
Hebrews 11 records the "Hall of Faith" and these all were personally known to God and named in Scripture.

Jews were the first Calvinists.

Luk 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Luk 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

I realize you believe this. Though I began my journey in faith battling in many ways Calvinism. I moved on shortly thereafter. I soon realized they were not the originalists in their beliefs in being "chosen". Modern Christianity is largely just various groups of people all claiming to be chosen by God personally. Such things feed the ego of ashes we came from.

You think that you'd at least share some of this "glory" with others beyond just the so very few that you include in your own experiences. God must really get tired of having to choose between all of you.

If God made covenant with Gentiles it had to begin with one Gentile as was done with ONE Abraham, ONE David, etc.
So, tell me YOU who claims God made covenant with Gentiles tell me what was that Gentile's name?

(psst...there is no such thing. God never made any kind of covenant of salvation, blessing, protection, etc., with Gentiles. NONE. There's NOTHING in Scripture that says such a thing and that's why you can't find what I ask because it doesn't exist. God made NO COVENANT with Gentiles. NONE.

Nonsense. The very ancestry of Jesus Christ includes a Moabite. Not a Gentile. A Moabite.

Ah, but you don't include women do you..... That is intentional too. There is a reason that Paul warned Timothy about the strife that exists in foolish genealogies.

You really haven't thought your theology through. You've done more than others but you can only go so far in unbelief.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jews were the first Calvinists.

Luk 3:7 Then said he to the multitude that came forth to be baptized of him, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
Luk 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance, and begin not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, That God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

I realize you believe this. Though I began my journey in faith battling in many ways Calvinism. I moved on shortly thereafter. I soon realized they were not the originalists in their beliefs in being "chosen". Modern Christianity is largely just various groups of people all claiming to be chosen by God personally. Such things feed the ego of ashes we came from.

You think that you'd at least share some of this "glory" with others beyond just the so very few that you include in your own experiences. God must really get tired of having to choose between all of you.



Nonsense. The very ancestry of Jesus Christ includes a Moabite. Not a Gentile. A Moabite.

Ah, but you don't include women do you..... That is intentional too. There is a reason that Paul warned Timothy about the strife that exists in foolish genealogies.

You really haven't thought your theology through. You've done more than others but you can only go so far in unbelief.

I agree to the non-Hebrew Gentile in Jesus' family tree. It's Bible.
And the seed that came out of Ruth and Boaz were what? Non-Hebrew?

The marital union of Ruth and Boaz resulted in the birth of a son named Obed.

Obed became the grandfather of King David, and a direct ancestor of Jesus Christ, as recorded in the genealogies of Matthew and Luke. The story of Ruth and Boaz is not just a love story, but a crucial part of the lineage that led to the Messiah.

Judaism is a monotheistic religion and a culture with a rich history spanning over 3,000 years. It originated in the Middle East and is one of the oldest monotheistic religions.

Jewish people, also known as Jews, are a community linked by shared religious and cultural traditions, history, and a connection to the land of Israel. The core tenets of Judaism include belief in one God, the covenant between God and the Jewish people, and the importance of the Torah, which contains the laws and commandments given by God.

Key aspects of Jewish life and practice include:

• Torah: The central text of Judaism, believed to be the word of God revealed to Moses.
• Synagogue: The Jewish house of worship and community center.
• Shabbat: The weekly day of rest, from Friday evening to Saturday evening.
• Kosher: A set of dietary laws that govern what foods can be eaten and how they must be prepared.
• Holidays: A cycle of holidays that commemorate important events in Jewish history, such as Passover, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, and Hanukkah.

The Jewish population is diverse, with communities all over the world. The largest populations are in Israel and the United States.

Everyone who is born-again would have to have at least ONE Hebrew in their genealogy. Jesus is multi-ethnic and is also of the seed of Abraham. Thus, because of God Hebrews that have a non-Hebrew in their lineage (ancestry) would also be of Abraham's seed and therefore remain heirs of the promises God gave to Abraham and to His seed - even mixed-race Hebrews today.

 

[TomL]

I agree to the non-Hebrew Gentile in Jesus' family tree. It's Bible.
And the seed that came out of Ruth and Boaz were what? Non-Hebrew?

The marital union of Ruth and Boaz resulted in the birth of a son named Obed.

Obed became the grandfather of King David, and a direct ancestor of Jesus Christ, as recorded in the genealogies of Matthew and Luke. The story of Ruth and Boaz is not just a love story, but a crucial part of the lineage that led to the Messiah.

Judaism is a monotheistic religion and a culture with a rich history spanning over 3,000 years. It originated in the Middle East and is one of the oldest monotheistic religions.

Jewish people, also known as Jews, are a community linked by shared religious and cultural traditions, history, and a connection to the land of Israel. The core tenets of Judaism include belief in one God, the covenant between God and the Jewish people, and the importance of the Torah, which contains the laws and commandments given by God.

Key aspects of Jewish life and practice include:

• Torah: The central text of Judaism, believed to be the word of God revealed to Moses.
• Synagogue: The Jewish house of worship and community center.
• Shabbat: The weekly day of rest, from Friday evening to Saturday evening.
• Kosher: A set of dietary laws that govern what foods can be eaten and how they must be prepared.
• Holidays: A cycle of holidays that commemorate important events in Jewish history, such as Passover, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur, and Hanukkah.

The Jewish population is diverse, with communities all over the world. The largest populations are in Israel and the United States.

Everyone who is born-again would have to have at least ONE Hebrew in their genealogy. Jesus is multi-ethnic and is also of the seed of Abraham. Thus, because of God Hebrews that have a non-Hebrew in their lineage (ancestry) would also be of Abraham's seed and therefore remain heirs of the promises God gave to Abraham and to His seed - even mixed-race Hebrews today.

And rejection of Christ overall

 

[jeremiah1five]

And rejection of Christ overall

It doesn't matter for the sin of rejection is also covered by the blood of the sacrifice and in accordance with the Law of Moses Jesus died like the animal was sacrificed - to and for the children of Israel ONLY.
Jesus fulfilled the Law in which the animal sacrifices were slain to atone for the sins of the children of Israel.
The New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah is only the Law of Moses fulfilled by Christ. The New Covenant in Jeremiah 31:31-34 does not contain a mechanism by which God would "forgive them [Israel] sins and remember them no more."

God reached back to the Law where the mechanism is to die as the animal sacrificed did to atone for the sins of the children of Israel. The New Covenant is only the Mosaic Covenant fulfilled by Jesus the Christ. Jesus died under the Law for Israel, and it was His blood, His sacrifice performed by God through which God could finally and eternally atone for the sins of the children of Israel which would take Israel from the Mosaic Covenant into the New Covenant in Jesus' blood. This act of God occurred on the day of Jesus' last Passover in the upper room on that very same night He was betrayed...

"...took bread:
24 And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 1 Corinthians 11:23–25.

While observing the Mosaic Covenant Jesus instituted the New Covenant in His blood for "life is in the blood."
And in Jesus' case, eternal life for the children of Israel through the obeying of the Law of Moses in the Mosaic Covenant.

When we look at the New Covenant prophesied by Jeremiah we see this:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour (member of another tribe living next to you), and every man his brother (member of the same tribe), saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:33–34.

They, them and their all identify the children of Israel whose sins God has forgiven. This was done while Jesus was under the Law to save those who were under the Law. Jesus was sacrificed under the Law for the children of Israel and only the children of Israel's sins are forgiven.

 

[jeremiah1five]

And rejection of Christ overall

It doesn't matter. Jesus atoned rejection of Christ at His cross for the children of Israel.

 

[TomL]

It doesn't matter. Jesus atoned rejection of Christ at His cross for the children of Israel.

Afraid not

John 3:18 (LEB) — 18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

2 Thessalonians 1:8–9 (LEB) — 8 with burning flame giving punishment to those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus, 9 who will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his strength,

Mark 16:16 (LEB) — 16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

1 John 5:12 (LEB) — 12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

Matthew 10:33 (LEB) — 33 But whoever denies me before people, I also will deny him before my Father who is in heaven.

 

[TomL]

It doesn't matter. Jesus atoned rejection of Christ at His cross for the children of Israel.

It matters greatly.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/are-christians-today-required-to-keep-the-law-of-moses.2667/reply?quote=196047

 

[jeremiah1five]

Afraid not

John 3:18 (LEB) — 18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

2 Thessalonians 1:8–9 (LEB) — 8 with burning flame giving punishment to those who do not know God and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus, 9 who will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his strength,

Mark 16:16 (LEB) — 16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

1 John 5:12 (LEB) — 12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.

Matthew 10:33 (LEB) — 33 But whoever denies me before people, I also will deny him before my Father who is in heaven.

Afraid so:

This is the New Covenant between God and Israel.
I want you to notice what God does.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:34.

Do you notice what Israel must do?
Nothing. Absolutely NOTHING.
God forgives them of all their sins and Israel doesn't have to do anything.
It's one-sided. God does everything necessary to forgive Israel and Israel doesn't have to do anything.
NOTHING!!!

 

[jeremiah1five]

It matters greatly.

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/are-christians-today-required-to-keep-the-law-of-moses.2667/reply?quote=196047

I already provided the Scripture of the New Covenant is which God forgives Israel and remembers their sins no more. Totally and fully ATONED.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:34.

Abraham had to do circumcision.
The Mosaic Covenant required Israel's obedience.
But in the New Covenant Israel doesn't have to do a thing.
Complete and total forgiveness and atonement of sin.

 

[TomL]

I already provided the Scripture of the New Covenant is which God forgives Israel and remembers their sins no more. Totally and fully ATONED.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:34.

Abraham had to do circumcision.
The Mosaic Covenant required Israel's obedience.
But in the New Covenant Israel doesn't have to do a thing.
Complete and total forgiveness and atonement of sin.

Really? Why then?

Romans 11:7 (LEB) — 7 What then? What Israel was searching for, this it did not obtain. But the elect obtained it, and the rest were hardened,

Romans 9:25–33 (LEB) — 25 As he also says in Hosea, “I will call those who were not my people, ‘My people,’ and those who were not loved, ‘Loved.’ 26 And it will be in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’ ” 27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, “Even if the number of the sons of Israel is like the sand of the sea, the remnant will be saved, 28 for the Lord will execute his sentence thoroughly and decisively upon the earth.” 29 And just as Isaiah foretold, “If the Lord of hosts had not left us descendants, we would have become like Sodom and would have resembled Gomorrah.” 30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness—even the righteousness that is by faith. 31 But Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, did not attain to the law. 32 Why that? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if by works. They stumbled over the stone that causes people to stumble, 33 just as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble, and a rock that causes them to fall, and the one who believes in him will not be put to shame.”

 

[TomL]

Afraid so:

This is the New Covenant between God and Israel.
I want you to notice what God does.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:34.

Do you notice what Israel must do?
Nothing. Absolutely NOTHING.
God forgives them of all their sins and Israel doesn't have to do anything.
It's one-sided. God does everything necessary to forgive Israel and Israel doesn't have to do anything.
NOTHING!!!

Again

Romans 9:25–33 (LEB) — 25 As he also says in Hosea, “I will call those who were not my people, ‘My people,’ and those who were not loved, ‘Loved.’ 26 And it will be in the place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’ ” 27 And Isaiah cries out concerning Israel, “Even if the number of the sons of Israel is like the sand of the sea, the remnant will be saved, 28 for the Lord will execute his sentence thoroughly and decisively upon the earth.” 29 And just as Isaiah foretold, “If the Lord of hosts had not left us descendants, we would have become like Sodom and would have resembled Gomorrah.” 30 What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness—even the righteousness that is by faith. 31 But Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, did not attain to the law. 32 Why that? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if by works. They stumbled over the stone that causes people to stumble, 33 just as it is written, “Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble, and a rock that causes them to fall, and the one who believes in him will not be put to shame.”

Romans 10:1–13 (LEB) — 1 Brothers, the desire of my heart and my prayer to God on behalf of them (Israel)is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For ignoring the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is from the law: “The person who does this will live by it.” 6 But the righteousness from faith speaks like this: “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or “Who will descend into the abyss?” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead). 8 But what does it say? “The word is near to you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim), 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, who is rich to all who call upon him. 13 For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”

You simply deny New Covenant scripture

 

[Soyeong]

The answer to this is "No". First of all, the Law of Moses was ONLY given to the Jewish nation of Israel, so Gentiles were never commanded to keep the Law, unless they wanted to become a proselyte, i.e. to convert to Judaism.

Is your goal to know God and Jesus by embodying His likeness through experiencing being a doer of His character traits? If so, then God’s character traits are eternal, so any instructions that God has given for how to do that are eternally and cumulatively valid. For example, God could give two people different sets of instructions for how to be a doer of His righteousness in various situations, but all of those instructions are going to have the same character trait in common and all of them are valid for a third person who has the above goal even though God did not directly give them any instructions. Israel was given those instructions in order to equip them to be a light and a blessing to the nations by turning them from their wickedness and teaching the nations to obey them in accordance with the promise and with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom, and it would be contradictory for this message to be a light to the Gentiles if Gentiles were not intended to obey the Mosaic Law.

Christ set a perfect example for us to follow of how to practice Judaism by walking in sinless obedience to the Mosaic Law and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6), so it would be contradictory for Gentiles to want to become followers of Christ while not wanting to follow him.

In Titus 2:14, Jesus gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in the Gospel that Jesus spent his ministry teaching by word and by example and in what he accomplished through the cross is by repenting and becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law (Acts 21:20) while someone who had not obligation to obey the Mosaic Law would have not need for any of that.

The Law of Moses, also called the Old Covenant, ended, when Christ brought in the New Covenant, which was in the first century A.D., so really no one has been required to keep the Law of Moses since then - not Jews, not Gentiles, not Christians and not non-Christians.

It is true that being a doer of charity is in accordance with God’s righteousness, which is independent of any covenant that God has made, so while God’s covenants can in instructions to be doers of charity as part of their stipulations, a covenant becoming obsolete does change the fact that it is in accordance with God’s righteousness to be a doer of charity as part. God’s righteousness is eternal (Psalms 119:142), therefore all of God’s righteous laws are also eternal (Psalms 119:160) and the only way to end God’s eternal instructions for how to be a doer of His righteousness would be by first ending His eternal righteousness. Sin was in the world before the law was given (Romans 5:13), so there were no actions that became righteous or unrighteous when the law was given, but rather the law revealed what has always been and will always be the way to do that.

The reason why Jesus established the New Covenant was not in order to nullify anything that he spent his ministry teaching or so that we could continue to have the same lawless that he gave himself to redeem us from and that caused the New Covenant to be needed in the first place, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Ezekiel 36:26-27, Jeremiah 31:33).

God gave all those who were or are interested a strong "hint" that He was done with the Law of Moses, when Jesus was crucified, which was about 30 A.D. Right after He died, the Scripture tells us that the curtain in the temple in Jerusalem, between the Holy place and the Holy of Holies - was supernaturally torn in two, from top to bottom. God was indicating that when Christ died, He "opened up the door" into the very presence of God, which is the actual Holy of Holies in heaven, for all who by faith in His shed blood and resurrection, have received His forgiveness of sins and indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

It is a common practice for someone to rend their garments in mourning, so the curtain being ripped is essentially God rendering His garments, which has nothing to do with hinting that He was done with the Law of Moses.

Why do you think that you need forgiveness of sins if you don’t think that you are obligated to refrain from doing what God has revealed to be sin through the Mosaic Law? In Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Mosaic Law.

No longer was it necessary to offer temple sacrifices, or to even use the temple at all. Nonetheless, it appears that the Jews who rejected Christ, most likely repaired the curtain, hardly even phased by the miracle of it being torn supernaturally, and went right back to their sacrifices.

Paul took a Nazarite vow, which involved making offerings and in Acts 21:20-24, he planned to pay for the offerings of others in order to show that he continued to live in obedience to the Mosaic Law. In Hebrews 8:4, it refers to offerings that were still being made in accordance with the Mosaic Law, so offerings did not cease with the death or resurrection of Jesus but only ended because of the destruction of the Temple.

Then, forty years later, in 70 A.D., God gave an even stronger hint - He had the Romans totally destroy the temple and the city of Jerusalem. A huge part of keeping the Law of Moses had to do with animal sacrifices and other sacrifices in the temple, so it was impossible to continue obeying that part of the Law of Moses.

Laws in regard to Temple practice that were no longer followed after the destruction of the 1st Temple were once again followed after the construction of the 2nd Temple, so there is nothing about the destruction of the 2nd that means that God is done with the Mosaic Law, but just the opposite. The Temple was destroyed because of Israel’s disobedience to the Mosaic Law, so its destruction means that we should repent from our lawlessness, not that we are free to continue being doers of lawlessness.

Since Christ came, He requires those who wish to follow Him - Christians - to keep His commandments, which Paul called the Law of Christ. There are several laws in the Law of Moses, which were also given in the New Covenant. For example, 9 of the 10 commandments were repeated in the New Covenant - only the 4th commandment, keeping the Sabbath day was not repeated Why? Because it was a ceremonial law, not a moral law. The other 9 law were moral laws, which do not change. The Sabbath Day law is considered a ceremonial law, not a moral law. Moral laws originate from the moral character of God.

Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example and I see no justification for thinking that the Law of Christ is something other than or contrary to what Christ taught. Christ quoted three times from Deuteronomy in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, which included saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God, so we have no need for him to specifically repeat everything that God has spoken in order to knows that we should still obey God.

Indeed, moral laws are based on the character of God and the goal of the Mosaic Law is to teach us how to be a doer of the character of God, so everything in it is a moral law. Holiness is part of the character of God, so it is a moral issue, and we are told in 1 Peter 1:16 to be holy as God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to do that, which straightforwardly includes keeping God’s Sabbaths holy (Leviticus 19:2-3).

The laws in the Law of Christ are to be kept by the power of the Holy Spirit through faith, unlike the Law of Moses, which was often only obeyed by their own will power. However, many Jews realized that if they put their faith in God, even though they did not have the indwelling Holy Spirit, they were still enabled to keep the Law more completely, than without faith in God.
So faith was exercised in both the Old Covenant and now in the New Covenant.

In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith.

 

[mikesw]

Is your goal to know God and Jesus by embodying His likeness through experiencing being a doer of His character traits? If so, then God’s character traits are eternal, so any instructions that God has given for how to do that are eternally and cumulatively valid. For example, God could give two people different sets of instructions for how to be a doer of His righteousness in various situations, but all of those instructions are going to have the same character trait in common and all of them are valid for a third person who has the above goal even though God did not directly give them any instructions. Israel was given those instructions in order to equip them to be a light and a blessing to the nations by turning them from their wickedness and teaching the nations to obey them in accordance with the promise and with spreading the Gospel of the Kingdom.

One reason Paul gave in Gal 3:19-20 against putting oneself under the Mosaic law is that the law was given to Israel because of its transgressions. Later he says that was to guard them until the Messiah came. So if people are still under the Mosaic law, that means the Messiah has not come. Earlier in Gal 2:15-18, Paul said if the law remained active while Peter was meeting with gentiles, in opposition to the Mosaic law, then Jesus is made a minister of sin for promoting fellowship with gentiles.

The Jews never did become a light to the nations. I'm not even sure if any passage suggests that as a purpose for the Israel people. The closest I know is in the sermon on the mount where Jesus said no man lights a candle to hide the light under a bushel.

This does not mean that a person is inclined to disobey laws of the current government they are under. In fact it is under the laws of their respective governments that parallel the criminal and civil law of the Mosaic law. Next we see in Gal 5:16-25 that Paul lists a bunch of behavior guidelines so that the gentiles do not use the lack of Mosaic law as a basis to behave badly. Those verses simply say to live by the fruit of the Spirit

 

[Soyeong]

One reason Paul gave in Gal 3:19-20 against putting oneself under the Mosaic law is that the law was given to Israel because of its transgressions. Later he says that was to guard them until the Messiah came. So if people are still under the Mosaic law, that means the Messiah has not come. Earlier in Gal 2:15-18, Paul said if the law remained active while Peter was meeting with gentiles, in opposition to the Mosaic law, then Jesus is made a minister of sin for promoting fellowship with gentiles.

God is sovereign, so we are all obligated to refrain from transgression of His law. Someone who disregarded everything that their tutor taught them after the purpose of the tutor has been fulfilled would be missing the whole point of a tutor. A child no longer needs a guardian to help the cross a busy street when they have been taught to safely cross it on their own, but it would be a mistake to think that they are now free to play in a busy street. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the law leads us to Christ because it was graciously given in order to teach us how to know him, but does not lead us to him so that we can then reject everything he taught and return to being doers of what it reveals to be wickedness. Christ did not come with the Gospel message that the law has ended now that he has come and we are now free to become doers of what it reveals to be wickedness, but rather he came with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which is in accordance with him being sent as the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26).

In Galatians 3:26-29, every aspect of being children of God, through faith, in Christ, and children of Abraham and heirs to the promise is all directly connected with someone following Christ's example of walking in obedience to God's law. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who are not doers of righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God, in Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law, in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked, and in John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him.

It is not a sin to eat with Gentles. Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and Galatians should not be interpreted as speaking against Gentiles being followers of Christ.

The Jews never did become a light to the nations. I'm not even sure if any passage suggests that as a purpose for the Israel people. The closest I know is in the sermon on the mount where Jesus said no man lights a candle to hide the light under a bushel.

Jews have always been a light to the nations either by following their example of obedience to God's law or by avoiding their example of disobedience. In 1 Corinthians 10:1-13, we are to avoid following their example of disobedience, not emulate it. In Isaiah 49:6, Israel is a light to the nations. Likewise, in Deuteronomy 4:5-8, the purpose of Israel's obedience to God's law was to draw the nations to Him. That part in the Sermon on the Mount is good too.

This does not mean that a person is inclined to disobey laws of the current government they are under. In fact it is under the laws of their respective governments that parallel the criminal and civil law of the Mosaic law. Next we see in Gal 5:16-25 that Paul lists a bunch of behavior guidelines so that the gentiles do not use the lack of Mosaic law as a basis to behave badly. Those verses simply say to live by the fruit of the Spirit

The purpose of God's law is to teach us how to be a doer of God's character traits and God's character traits are the fruits of the Spirit, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

 

[mikesw]

God is sovereign, so we are all obligated to refrain from transgression of His law. Someone who disregarded everything that their tutor taught them after the purpose of the tutor has been fulfilled would be missing the whole point of a tutor. A child no longer needs a guardian to help the cross a busy street when they have been taught to safely cross it on their own, but it would be a mistake to think that they are now free to play in a busy street.

You are not under a tutor unless you were a Jew before Christ came. It is not Paul's point. I'm not sure where you took Jewish law to apply it to gentiles. Are you finding some passage to say now that you become a Christian that you will be compelled to be under the Mosaic law? This would contradict Paul in Gal 3:15-20. I'm not sure why or how your reject his message.
One problem of the Mosaic law is that people started judging others instead of doing the law themselves. They also added many extra laws and made a big mess of what was originally there.

Even more so, there are not likely that many laws that Christians would be following or could follow. You will be in big trouble if you kill a son who has rebelled.

In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the law leads us to Christ because it was graciously given in order to teach us how to know him, but does not lead us to him so that we can then reject everything he taught and return to being doers of what it reveals to be wickedness.

Matt 7;23 says the will of the Father. He does not say this is only found in the Mosaic law.

Christ did not come with the Gospel message that the law has ended now that he has come and we are now free to become doers of what it reveals to be wickedness, but rather he came with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which is in accordance with him being sent as the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26).

You are mistaken applying this to gentiles. Gentiles are not the sons of the prophets. Again you misapply scripture in your argument.

In Galatians 3:26-29, every aspect of being children of God, through faith, in Christ, and children of Abraham and heirs to the promise is all directly connected with someone following Christ's example of walking in obedience to God's law.

There is no message about disobedience or obedience to the law brought up here. It says we are heirs according to the promise not according to the law.

In 1 John 3:4-10, those who are not doers of righteousness in obedience to God's law are not children of God, in Romans 3:31, our faith upholds God's law, in 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked, and in John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him.

1 John 3:4-10 speaks of sinning without the context of the law. strictly speaking sin is anything per the flesh. transgression would be mentioned if this was violation of the Mosaic law.
We will skip Rom 3:31 without explaining the error here. It is missing the context of discussion

1 John 2:6 is in the context of the commandments of Jesus which were to love God and love one's neighbor as himself. We do not see this as an emphasis on doing Mosaic law.

It is not a sin to eat with Gentles. Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and Galatians should not be interpreted as speaking against Gentiles being followers of Christ.

That was not to make an issue of eating with gentiles. The point is that having the law active after Christ died and was raised makes Jesus a minister of sin. Is that would you would advocate?

Jews have always been a light to the nations either by following their example of obedience to God's law or by avoiding their example of disobedience. In 1 Corinthians 10:1-13, we are to avoid following their example of disobedience, not emulate it. In Isaiah 49:6, Israel is a light to the nations. Likewise, in Deuteronomy 4:5-8, the purpose of Israel's obedience to God's law was to draw the nations to Him. That part in the Sermon on the Mount is good too.


The purpose of God's law is to teach us how to be a doer of God's character traits and God's character traits are the fruits of the Spirit, which is why the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey God's law (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

Indeed you are making the mistake of applying prophecies about Israel to people who are not of Israel. So that removes your use of Ezekiel and Deuteronomy. Also Acts 3 is before gentiles were included.

There are too many contextual and logical errors to lead one to accept your argument.

 

[Soyeong]

Of course the idea of faith in God was known to godly Jews even before the Law of Moses was given. Their father, Abraham, was and still is, the father of faith. Romans 4:11-12 He believed God, and God reckoned it (his faith) to him as righteousness. (Genesis 15:6) When the Law of Moses came, godly Jews accepted it, but they did not reject their faith which they already had before the Law came. After Abraham showed God that he was willing to sacrifice his only son, Isaac, God promised Abraham that through his seed, all the families of the earth would be blessed. Genesis 22:18

Paul gave us further understanding of the word "seed" in Genesis. He says that it is singular, not plural, and that the singular "seed" refers directly to Christ. Galatians 3:16 So God is really telling Abraham that through Christ, the Messiah, all the families of the earth would be blessed. This is confirmed in several other places. Mary prophesied about it in Luke 1:55; Paul mentions it again in Romans 4:13 and 16. Peter mentions it in his second sermon in Acts 3:25.

But Abraham and his descendants didn't have to wait until Christ came - to be blessed. If they exercised faith in God, as their father Abraham had done, they too would be counted as righteous, and therefore would enjoy the blessings of Christ - long before Christ was born. God knew that Abraham would be a man of faith in Him, even before Abraham offered up Isaac, so God's original promise to him, when He first spoke to Abraham when he was 75 years old, is found in Genesis 12:1-3:

"Go forth from your country, and from your relatives and from your father's house, to the land which I will show you; and I will make you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great; and so you shall be a blessing; and I will bless those who bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse. And in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."

Many Christians say that this promise was made to the nation Israel, but Israel was not even a nation when God gave Abraham this promise. But we learn from the New Covenant, especially Paul's writings, that the blessing of God in Genesis 12:1-3 was really a blessing on all those who had faith in Him, and when Jesus was born, God expected all men to put their faith in Jesus- whether they were Jews or Gentiles. Remember, even Moses, through whom God's Law came, told the nation of Israel that God would raise up a prophet like him. Deuteronomy 18:15-20 Peter also spoke of this same passage in his second sermon in Acts 3:22-23.

In the Old Testament, those Jews who put their faith in God were called the remnant of Israel. Those Jews who did not have faith in God were not part of the remnant of Israel. Since Israel became a nation, when they came out of Egypt, God's promises have always been for the remnant of Israel - not for those Jews who were unfaithful and disobedient. Even Gentiles, who believed in the God of Israel, could become a part of the remnant of Israel, and share God's blessings with them.

So it is today. Jews who reject Jesus, their Messiah, are not part of the Israel of God, as Paul put it in Galatians 6:16. And Gentiles, who love Jesus and have put their faith in Him - are part of the Israel of God.

Paul said: "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God." Romans 2:28-29.

Sadly, many Jews today - are not really Jews at all - because they do not love God and they reject Jesus. On the other hand, many Jews today are also Jews inwardly - they love God and they love Jesus, their Messiah. They are part of the body of Christ, along with believing Gentiles.

While it is true that Abraham believed God, so he was counted as righteous (Genesis 15:6), it is also true that he believed God, so he obeyed God's instructions to offer Isaac (Hebrews 11:17), so the same faith by which he was declared righteous was also expressed by being an obeyer of God, but he did not earn his righteousness as the result of his obedience. In James 2:21-24, it quotes Genesis 15:6 to support saying that Abraham was declared righteous by his works when he offered Isaac, his faith was active along with his works, and his faith completed his works, so he was declared righteous by his works insofar as they embodied his faith, but not insofar as they were earning a wage.

While the only way for someone to attain a character trait is through faith, what it means for someone to attain a character trait is for them to become a doer of that trait. For example, the only way for someone to become courageous is by faith apart from being required to have first done enough courageous works in order to earn it as the result, but it would be contradictory for someone to become courageous apart from becoming a doer of courageous works, and the same is true for righteousness and every other character trait.

The Hebrew word "yada" refer to intimate relationship/knowledge gained by experience such as with Genesis 4:1 where Adam knew (yada) Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. God's way is the way to know Him and Jesus by embodying His likeness through being a doer of His character traits, which is the narrow way to eternal life (John 17:3). For example, in Genesis 18:19, God knew (yada) Abraham that he would teach his children and those of his household to walk in God's way by being doers of righteousness and justice that the Lord might bring to him all that He has promised. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know (yada) Him, in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through His law, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to graciously teach us how to know God and Jesus by walking in His way, which is His gift of eternal life. Moreover, Abraham was not just declared righteous apart from being a doer of righteous works through faith and both Abraham and Moses taught how to walk in God's way in obedience to His law.

The Gospel that Jesus taught in Matthew 4:15-23 was in accordance with him being sent as the promised seed to bless us by turning us from our wickedness (Acts 3:25-26), which was the Gospel that was made known in advance to Abraham in accordance with the promise (Galatians 3:8), which he spread to those in Haran in accordance with the promise (Genesis 12:1-5). In Genesis 26:4-5, God will multiple Abraham's children as the stars in the heaven, to his children He will give all of these lands, and through his children all of the nations of the earth shall be blessed because he heart God's voice and guarded His charge, commandments, statutes, and laws. In Deuteronomy 30:16, if the children of Abraham will love God with all of their heart by walking in His way in obedience to His commandments, statutes, and laws, then they will live and multiply and God will bless them in the land that they go to possess. So the promise was made to Abraham and brought about because he walked in God's way in obedience to His law, he taught his children and those of his household to do that in accordance with spreading the Gospel, and because they did that in obedience to the Mosaic Law.

The Law of Moses is how the children of Abraham know how to be blessed by walking in His way (Psalms 119:1-3) and Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works as him, so the way that the children of Abraham are multiplied and are a blessing to the nations is by turning the nations from their wickedness and teaching them to do the same works as Abraham by walking in God's way in obedience to His law in accordance with spreading the Gospel.

We embody what we believe to be true about God through our works, such a with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith by works. In other words, the way to have faith in God is by walking in His way. For example, by being a doer of good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law we are embodying God's goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by embodying God's goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good. Likewise, the way to believe that God is a doer of justice is by embodying His likeness through being a doer of justice in obedience to His law, the way to believe that God is holy is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, we are to love because God loved us, we are to be merciful because God is merciful, and so forth. This is exactly the same as the way to believe in the Son, who is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and it is through this faith alone that we attain the character traits of God.

Similarly, the way to love God is by walking in His way, such as the way to love justice is by being a doer of justice in obedience to God's law, the way to love holiness is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, and so forth. In other words, the goal of everything that God has instructed is to teach us how to love different aspects of His character, which is why the Bible repeatedly states that the way to love God is by obeying His commandments. There are many Jews who are doers of God's character traits in obedience to the Torah and there is no good reason to doubt their salvation or to think that they have rejected Jesus regardless of what they say about him. In Romans 2:25-29, the way to recognize that a Gentile has a circumcised heart is by observing their obedience to the Mosaic Law, which is the same way to tell for a Jew (Deuteronomy 30:6).

 

[Soyeong]

No, if we go back into the old covenant we forfeit our freedom in Christ and become yoked slaves in bondage to the old law, Galatians 5:1

If God saved the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt in order to put them under bondage to His law, the it would be for slavery that God sets us free, however, Galatians 5:1 says that it is for freedom that God sets us free, so you are not correctly identifying what Paul was speaking against. In Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is the transgression of the Mosaic Law that puts us into bondage while the truth sets us free. It is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of what sin is (Romans 3:20) and the freedom that we have in Christ is the freedom from sin, not the freedom to sin.

The old Mosaical law is DEAD, DEAD, DEAD to Paul and all born again new testament Christians.

To be a child of someone is metaphorically to be embody their likeness through being a doer of their character traits, such as with John 8:39 saying that if they were children of Abraham then they would be doers of the same works as him, and this is also what it means to be a child of God. This is why those who are not doers of righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law are not born again (1 John 3:4-10) and why Paul contrasted those who are born of the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Mosaic Law (Romans 8:4-14).

We now serve under the new testament law of Christ.
This includes all of the 10 commandments. Which is the old covenant law.
Jesus restated 9 of the old testament commandments in His new covenant.
That doesn't make the new testament the 9 commandments of Moses'law.
It makes those moral laws general, as Gods morality does not change.

Christ quoted Deuteronomy three times in order to defeat the temptations of Satan, which included saying that man shall not live by bread alone but by every word that comes from the mouth of God, so we have no need for Jesus to have specifically repeated everything that God has spoken in order for us to know that we should still obey God and there is no justification for thinking that the Law of Christ is something other than or contrary to anything that God has spoken. Morality is in regard to what ought to be done and every legislator gives laws in accordance with their understanding of what ought to be done, so all of God's laws are inherently moral laws.

Romans 7:6,
- but now we(Christians) are delivered from the law
- that being  dead wherein we were held that we should serve in newness of spirit and not in the oldness of the letter(10 commandments, law of Moses)

V,7
- what shall we say then is the law sin, God forbid, Nay I had not known sin but by the law,
- for I had not known lust except the law had said,
Thou shalt not covet (10th commandment in the 10 commandments)

Paul teaches Christians are dead to the 10 commandments by quoting the 10th commandment,
Thou shalt not covet.
Proving NO born again Christian is bound to obey the 10 commandments!!!

In Romans 7-8:2, Paul said that the Law of God is good, that he wanted to do good, that he delighted in obeying it, and that he served it with his mind in contrast with the law of sin, which was working within his members to cause him not to do the good that he wanted to do, which was waging war against the law of his mind, which he served with his flesh, which held him captive, and which the Law of the Spirit has freed us from. The Law of God leads us to do what is godly, righteous, and good (Romans 7:12) while the law of sin leads us in the opposite direction by stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death (Romans 7:5), so we need to die to the law of sin in order to be free to obey the Law of God, not the other way around.

Verses that refer to something that would be absurd for Paul to delight in doing should not be interpreted as referring to the Law of God while verses that refer to a law that is sinful, that causes sin to increase, or that hinders us from obeying the Law of God should be interpreted as referring to the law of sin. For example, it would be absurd to interpret Romans 7:5 as referring to the Law of God as if Paul delighted in stirring up sinful passions in order to bear fruit unto death, but rather that is the role of the law of sin. Likewise, it would be absurd to interpret Romans 7:6 as if Paul delighted in being held captive to sin, but rather it is the law of sin that he described as holding him captive (Romans 7:23).

Jesus' new covenant replaced the old covenant.

Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and the reason why he established the New Covenant was not in order to nullify anything that he set his ministry teaching or so that we could be free to continue to have the same lawlessness that caused the New Covenant to be needed in the first place, but rather the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law (Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 36:26-27).

 

[Soyeong]

Nowhere in Jesus' new testament gospel is it taught new testament Christian's are to keep the law of Moses.

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Mosaic Law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel of the Kingdom. Christ also set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6). So Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to follow the Mosaic Law by word and by example and being a Christian is about being a followers of what Christ taught.

In fact Jesus' apostles teach the justified in Christ are not to keep the old covenant law.

We can't earn our righteousness even as the result of having perfect obedience to the Mosaic Law (Romans 4:1-5), so that has always been a fundamental misunderstanding of the goal of the law and the fact that we can't earn our righteousness by obeying God does not mean that we are not obligated to obey God. The Mosaic Law was not given as instructions for how to become righteous but to describe the life of someone who is righteous as it describes the life of Christ.

While the only way for someone to attain a character trait is through faith, what it means for someone to attain a character trait is for them to become a doer of that trait. For example, the only way for someone to become courageous is by faith apart from being required to have first done enough courageous works in order to earn it as the result, but it would be contradictory for someone to become courageous apart from becoming a doer of courageous works, and the same is true for righteousness and every other character trait. This is why the same faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works does not abolish our need to be a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Mosaic Law, but rather our faith uphold it (Romans 3:28-31). Everyone who has faith will be declared righteous and everyone who has faith is a doer of the Mosaic Law, which is how Paul can deny that we can earn our righteousness as the result of our works while also affirming in Romans 2:13 that only the doers of the Mosaic Law will be declared righteous. So the fact that we do not earn our righteousness as the result of our obedience to the Mosaic Law does not mean that the righteous in Christ are not to be doers of righteous works in obedience to it.

as it is written the  just shall live by  faith(new testament gospel)

Habakkuk 2:4 does not present living by faith as an alternative way of living that is not in obedience to God, but rather the righteous who are living by faith are in contrast with those who are not living in obedience to God. In Isaiah 51:7, the righteous are those on whose heart is the Mosaic Law, and in 1 John 3:4-7, everyone who is a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Mosaic Law is righteous even as they are righteous. We can do work that embody our faith, such as with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith through his works, so the significance of our obedience to the Mosaic Law is that it is the way to live by faith, not the way to earn our righteousness as a wage.

Paul has made this clear multiple times.
Galatians 5:4,
- Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law(old law of Moses)
ye(keepers of the old law of Moses, are fallen from grace
Keeping the old law seperates the justified in Christ from Christ.

God wanted His people to repent and to return to obedience to His law all throughout the Bible, and even Christ began his ministry with that Gospel message, so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning against doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we repent and believe the Gospel of Christ. In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey the Mosaic Law, and he chose the way of faith by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith, this is what it means to be under grace, and it would again be absurd to interpret that as him wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace, so you are incorrectly inserting something that Paul wasn't speaking against.

Only law Paul teaches new testament Christian's to keep/ obey is Jesus' new testament law that replaced the old.
Galatians 6:2,
- bear ye one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ

God is not in disagreement with himself about which laws we should follow, but rather the Law of Christ is the same as the Law of the Spirit and the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses.

Hebrews 7:11-12,
- if therefore  perfection were by the Levitical priesthood(for under it the people received the old law) what further need was there that another priest(Jesus Christ) should rise after the order of Melchisedec and not be called after the order of Aaron
- for the priesthood being changed there is made of necessity a change also of the law
Change of law under the new high priest being Jesus Christ. Old law of Moses now under the new testament law of Christ.

A priesthood that is led by God's Word made flesh does not involve rejecting God's Word.

Hebrews 8:13,
- In that He saith a new covenant He(Jesus) hath made the first(old covenant with Moses)
- in that He saith a new covenant He hath made the first obsolete Now that which decayeth and wax old is ready to vanish away

In Hebrews 8:10, the New Covenant still involves following the Mosaic Law, so the Mosaic Covenant becoming obsolete does not mean that we should no longer follow the Mosaic Law.

The old law of Moses was imperfect.
The new law of Christ is perfect.

James 1:25,
- but whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty and continue therein he being not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his works

Christ's new law is perfect.

The Law of Moses is perfect (Psalms 19:7), it is of liberty (Psalms 119:45), and it blesses those who obey it (Psalms 119:1-3), so James speaking about the perfect law of liberty that blesses those who obey it was not saying anything about the Law of Moses that wasn't already said in the Psalms.

The law of Moses only brings condemnation slavery and death if one falls back into binding the old law on christians today.


Galatians 5:1,
- Stand fast therefore in the liberty(law of Christ) wherewith Christ hath made us free
- and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage(old law of Moses)

If God saved the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt in order to put them under bondage to the Law of Moses, then it would be bondage that God sets us free, however, Galatians 5:1 says that it is for freedom that God sets us free, so again you are incorrectly identifying what Paul was speaking against. In Psalms 119:142, the Mosaic Law is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is the transgression of the Mosaic Law that puts us into bondage while the truth sets us free.

The Law of faith, which literally is the law of the new testament gospel.
Galatians 6:2,
- bear ye one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ
Romans 3:27,
- where is boasting then, it is excluded by what law(Paul is asking which law? The law of Moses or the new testament law of Christ?

- where is boasting then, it is excluded, by what law, of works(law of Moses) Nay,
- but by the law of faith

The word faith is not personal belief here. Your personal belief is not law.
Gods law that all are under today is His gospel.
That is what Paul said in Romans 3:27,
- where is boasting then, it is excluded, by what law, of works, Nay,
But by the law of the gospel(The Faith)

Next verse, 28
- therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith(new testament gospel)
without the deeds of the law (old testament law of Moses)

In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law. In Romans 3:27, Paul contrasted a law of works with a law of faith, in Galatians 3:10-12, he contrasted the Book of the Law with "works of the law", and in Romans 3:31 and Galatians 3:10-12, he said that our faith upholds the Mosaic Law in contrast with saying that "works of the law" are not of faith, so that phrase does not refer to obedience to the Mosaic Law. God is trustworthy, therefore His instructions are also trustworthy (Psalms 19:7), so the way to trust in God is by obediently trusting in His instructions, the position that God is a giver of untrustworthy instructions that are not of faith denies the trustworthiness and faithfulness of God, and it is contradictory to think that we should have faith in God but not in His instructions.

 

[Soyeong]

Romans 10:4,
- for Christ is the  end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth

In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that he and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to graciously teach us how to know God and Jesus, which is His gift of eternal life (John 17:3).

In Romans 9:30-10:4, they had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing him, so the failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as through righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own instead of pursuing it as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. In Romans 10:5-10, Paul referred to Deuteronomy 30 as the word of faith that we proclaim in regard to proclaiming that the Mosaic Law is not too difficult for us to obey, that obedience to it brings life and a blessing, in regard to what we are agreeing to obey by confessing that Jesus is Lord, and in regard to the way to believe that God raised him from the dead for salvation. So nothing in this passage has anything to do with Christ ending the Mosaic Law, but just the opposite, and it doesn't even make sense to interpret that as saying that God's Word made flesh ended God's Word, but rather knowing him is the goal of God's Word. Instructions for how to be a doer of God's character righteousness can't be ended without first ending God's righteousness, and the same is true for God's other character traits.

Now you know there are verses that teach the law of Moses has ended.

Christ fulfilled the law meaning He completed its purpose.
Brought to completion.

In Matthew 5:17-19, Jesus said that he came to fulfill the law in contrast with saying that he came not to abolish it and he warned against relaxing the least part of it, so you should not interpret fulfilling the law as meaning essentially the same thing as abolishing it or as relaxing the least part of it. Rather, "to fulfill the law" means "to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be" (NAS Greek Lexicon: pleroo). The goal of the law is to teach us how to know God and Jesus by embodying His likeness through being a doer of His character traits, so Jesus fulfilled the law by teaching us how to do that.

Ephesians 2:14-15.

In Ephesians 2:10-15, we are new creations in Christ to do good works, so it wouldn't make sense to interpret that as saying that Christ abolished his instructions for how to do good works, especially because all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalms 119:160). God had no need to abolish his own laws, He did not give any laws for the purpose of creating a dividing wall of hostility, Jesus specifically said that he came not to abolish the law, and the Bible never uses the Greek word "dogma" to refer to the Mosaic Law, so there is no justification for interpreting those verses speaking about the Mosaic Law being abolished.

In Ephesians 2:12-19, Gentiles were at one time separated from Christ, alienated from Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, and without hope and God in this world, all of which is in accordance with Gentiles at one time not being doers of the Mosaic Law, but though faith in Christ all of that is no longer true in that Gentiles are no longer aliens or strangers but are fellow citizens of Israel along with the saints in the household of God, all of which is in accordance with Gentiles becoming doers of the Mosaic Law.

 

[Soyeong]

You are not under a tutor unless you were a Jew before Christ came. It is not Paul's point. I'm not sure where you took Jewish law to apply it to gentiles. Are you finding some passage to say now that you become a Christian that you will be compelled to be under the Mosaic law? This would contradict Paul in Gal 3:15-20. I'm not sure why or how your reject his message.

The point is not being under a tutor does not mean that we have no more need to live by what they taught us. A student does not move on to algebra by disregarding everything that they were taught about addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division, but rather their new teacher builds upon what they were taught.

Gentile are required to refrain from doing what God has revealed to be sin, and it is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of sin. If Gentiles had no obligation to obey the Mosaic Law, then Gentiles would have no need of the Gospel, no need of salvation, and no need for Jesus to have given himself to redeem us from all lawlessness. Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and the way to become a Christian is by becoming a follower of what he taught and Galatians 3:15-20 doesn't contradict that.

One problem of the Mosaic law is that people started judging others instead of doing the law themselves. They also added many extra laws and made a big mess of what was originally there.

Someone holding themselves to a different standard than they hold for themselves is not in accordance with the Mosaic Law. In Deuteronomy 17:8-13, it gives authority to priests and judges to make rulings about how to correctly obey the Mosaic Law, and in Matthew 23:1-4, Jesus recognized that the Scribes and Pharisees had this authority by saying that they sit in the Seat of Moses and by instructing his followers to do and observe all that they said.

Even more so, there are not likely that many laws that Christians would be following or could follow. You will be in big trouble if you kill a son who has rebelled.

There is no evidence that any rebellious sons were killed.

Matt 7;23 says the will of the Father. He does not say this is only found in the Mosaic law.

In Matthew 7:21-23, Jesus contrasted saying that only those who do the will of the Father will enter the Kingdom of Heave in contrast with saying that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him, and it is straightforward that the Father has made His will known through what He has commanded in His (Psalms 40:8).

You are mistaken applying this to gentiles. Gentiles are not the sons of the prophets. Again you misapply scripture in your argument.

In Matthew 4:15-23, it describes the message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand as being a light to the Gentiles. Furthermore, Jesus commissioned his disciples to teach to the Gentiles everything that he taught them. Are you taking the position that Jesus wasn't sent as the promised seed to bless Gentiles by turning them from their wickedness?

There is no message about disobedience or obedience to the law brought up here. It says we are heirs according to the promise not according to the law.

Galatians 3:26-29 speaks about those who are children of God, and in 1 John 3:4-10, those who are children of God are obligated to be doer of righteous works in obedience to the Mosaic Law. It speaks about those who are in Christ and those who are in Christ are obligated to follow his example of walk ing in obedience to the Mosaic Law (1 John 2:6). It speaks about those who have faith, and our faith upholds the Mosaic Law (Romans 3:31). It speaks about those who are children of Abraham and heirs to the promise and those should do the same works that everything did (John 8:39). I don't see how you can deny that this passage is connected with obedience to God's law. While the way to inherit the promise is through faith, the content of what is promised is in regard to those who are living in obedience to God's law.

1 John 3:4-10 speaks of sinning without the context of the law. strictly speaking sin is anything per the flesh. transgression would be mentioned if this was violation of the Mosaic law.

It defines sin as the transgression of the transgression of the Mosaic Law, so I don't see how you can claim that it is sinning without the context of the law. There is no such thing as sin apart from what defines what sin is. The works of the flesh are contrary to the Mosaic Law.

We will skip Rom 3:31 without explaining the error here. It is missing the context of discussion

The Bible repeatedly connects our faith in God with our obedience to Him and Romans 3:31 is one of many examples that I could have cited. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law. In Revelation 14:12, those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments.

1 John 2:6 is in the context of the commandments of Jesus which were to love God and love one's neighbor as himself. We do not see this as an emphasis on doing Mosaic law.

In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus was asked which commandment was the greatest, so his answer to that question does not mean that those are his only commandments, especially because the existence of the greatest two commandments implies the existence of other commandments that are not the greatest two. Everything in the Mosaic Law is either in regard to how to love God or how to love our neighbor, which is why Jesus said that those are the greatest two commandment and that all of the other commandments hang on them, so the position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey the commandments that hang on them. For example, if we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit adultery, theft, murder, idolatry, favoritism, rape, kidnapping, and so forth for the rest of the Mosaic Law. The greatest two commandments are much easier said that done, so thankfully God gave us the of the Mosaic Law in order to flesh out what it looks like to correctly obey them. Someone who was correctly living in obedience to the greatest two commandments would be indistinguishable from someone who was correctly living in obedience to the rest of the Mosaic Law because they would both be following the same example that Jesus set for us to follow.

That was not to make an issue of eating with gentiles. The point is that having the law active after Christ died and was raised makes Jesus a minister of sin. Is that would you would advocate?

That doesn't follow and that is not what I advocate. In Titus 2:14, it doesn't say Jesus gave himself to redeem us from the Mosaic Law, but in order to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the way to believe in what he accomplished through the cross is by becoming zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Mosaic Law (Acts 21:20).

Indeed you are making the mistake of applying prophecies about Israel to people who are not of Israel. So that removes your use of Ezekiel and Deuteronomy. Also Acts 3 is before gentiles were included.

Israel can't be a light to the nations without the nations. Ezekiel describes the role of the Spirit as leading us to obey the Mosaic Law and is speaking in regard to the New Covenant. While it is true that Acts 3:25-26 was before the inclusion of Gentiles, Jesus commissioned his disciples to bring the Gospel that he taught to the Gentiles. Do you think that Gentiles who are included should continue to be doers of wickedness or turn from their wickedness?