Anti-trinitarianism Campaign

mikesw

Active Member
Interestingly I have been on vacation and outside of my normal familiar territory. I have noticed these anti-trinitarian billboards. This suggests a deceptive or distracting campaign like the geocentric model that has been pushed strong in the last 5 or more years.

I'm not sure how recent this anti-trinitarian push against scripture began. Is this more in the last several years?

There was also a debate of between a trinitarian and anti-trinitarian on friday. I could not hear the unitarian well but doubt he had anything convincing. This is the video:

One thing that seems tied with this is the Hebrew name advocates, as if Jesus and our Father cannot recognize their names shared in various languages. That is true of the group putting up the billboards. Their website is wlc.org. They then throw in the false eschatology concepts since their website is world's last chance. They also have the logo of an antenna with the words WLC Radio. The website reminds me of that guy Armstrong who also was focused on the so-called end of the world so I wonder if this is a revamp of that.

Anyhow, a quick look at a page with questions for orthodox Christians shows the same confusion about Christ as we see shared by the unitarians here. Okay. this website might be a bit worse, but still the same misconceptions. I doubt they try to address the many passages that reflect the divinity of Christ in the Godhead, so I will not look deeply into their points. And sorry for tying all these perspectives together, but this group was triggering thoughts about all the weird things being pushed in recent years. That website makes it seem like all of these are part of a coordinated effort of disinformation, though there may be some independent advocates of any of these doctrines.
 
Interestingly I have been on vacation and outside of my normal familiar territory. I have noticed these anti-trinitarian billboards. This suggests a deceptive or distracting campaign like the geocentric model that has been pushed strong in the last 5 or more years.

I'm not sure how recent this anti-trinitarian push against scripture began. Is this more in the last several years?

There was also a debate of between a trinitarian and anti-trinitarian on friday. I could not hear the unitarian well but doubt he had anything convincing. This is the video:

One thing that seems tied with this is the Hebrew name advocates, as if Jesus and our Father cannot recognize their names shared in various languages. That is true of the group putting up the billboards. Their website is wlc.org. They then throw in the false eschatology concepts since their website is world's last chance. They also have the logo of an antenna with the words WLC Radio. The website reminds me of that guy Armstrong who also was focused on the so-called end of the world so I wonder if this is a revamp of that.

Anyhow, a quick look at a page with questions for orthodox Christians shows the same confusion about Christ as we see shared by the unitarians here. Okay. this website might be a bit worse, but still the same misconceptions. I doubt they try to address the many passages that reflect the divinity of Christ in the Godhead, so I will not look deeply into their points. And sorry for tying all these perspectives together, but this group was triggering thoughts about all the weird things being pushed in recent years. That website makes it seem like all of these are part of a coordinated effort of disinformation, though there may be some independent advocates of any of these doctrines.
Yes. I've noticed a concerted effort on the part of many, especially Messianic Jews, to try to sway us to their anti-Trinitarian way of erroneous thinking. This effort on their part is our modern day form of "Judaizing" that Paul directly accused Peter of. I hope many of them wake up to their errors sooner than later.
 
Yes. I've noticed a concerted effort on the part of many, especially Messianic Jews, to try to sway us to their anti-Trinitarian way of erroneous thinking. This effort on their part is our modern day form of "Judaizing" that Paul directly accused Peter of. I hope many of them wake up to their errors sooner than later.
I found differently about Peter in Antioch -- likely he withdrew due to rumor of a threat against his life. But there was an effort of non-Christian Jews that probably was trying to promote the Jewish practices and circumcision in order to disrupt the faith of the Galatian church by distracting from the gift of grace through Christ. So there is a repeat of that attempt of disruption, even in the guise of some new enlightenment and insight within this so-called Christian movement. They also hide or miss that teachers of the Jews saw two powers of heaven, as explained by Alan Segal.
 
One element goofier than the anti-Trinitarian discussions here is that this one group lists points against the nature of God by saying "if the father and the son are one being..." Thus they give a strawman argument that is not even a respectable attempt to describe the Triune essence of God in terms that Christians use. (Okay. I do not know if they would be excluded from being Christians. It just is a suspicious state of belief they hold.)
 
The Trinity is complex, and half the people that hold it cannot fully defend or articulate it. And that's okay, really.

But if someone merely adopts it from church history, I do not think they have come to the revelation on their own.

The Trinity is a deep mystery that must come by revelation, just is as the Atonement, and all central doctrines.
 
The Trinity is complex, and half the people that hold it cannot fully defend or articulate it. And that's okay, really.

But if someone merely adopts it from church history, I do not think they have come to the revelation on their own.

The Trinity is a deep mystery that must come by revelation, just is as the Atonement, and all central doctrines.
I mostly agree. There is not a problem for people saying they are not sure of the triune concept of God. But the general idea should to accept these central doctrines -- not just questioning everything taught without going deeper into study of it. Even one's own examination can be questionable. That does not create a problem either. The problem is with groups who are espousing a contrary doctrine without a solid, convincing argument of their novel ideas. Especially the problem is with those not merely following a misconception but who go on to promote it.
One concept I have held is that true believers in Christ can have wrong doctrines but, when given the chance, will tend toward truer doctrines. We hear the voice of our Shepherd calling us there. This is a general concept and the results in individual believers may vary.
 
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Yes. I've noticed a concerted effort on the part of many, especially Messianic Jews, to try to sway us to their anti-Trinitarian way of erroneous thinking. This effort on their part is our modern day form of "Judaizing" that Paul directly accused Peter of. I hope many of them wake up to their errors sooner than later.

Yes, it's been a peeve of mine when I see a person call themselves 'messianic' Jewish.. yet still deny Messiah means... fully God.

If Jesus is who they waited for.. then they should also understand Jesus' full power.
 
Yes, it's been a peeve of mine when I see a person call themselves 'messianic' Jewish.. yet still deny Messiah means... fully God.

If Jesus is who they waited for.. then they should also understand Jesus' full power.
what..?

Messiah means "anointed one" when translated into English, not "fully God" which is a severe error. Did you know that many are messiah "anointed" in the Bible?

Leviticus 4:3,5,16 - refers to the "anointed priest."
Leviticus 6:22 - the "anointed priest" in succession.
1 Samuel 12:3,5 - refers to Saul as God’s anointed.
1 Samuel 16:6 - refers to David as the Lord’s anointed.
etc...

There are dozens of examples of those who are mashiach (messiah) in the Bible. Random priests, Saul, and David aren't "fully God" are they?
 
what..?

Messiah means "anointed one" when translated into English, not "fully God" which is a severe error. Did you know that many are messiah "anointed" in the Bible?

Leviticus 4:3,5,16 - refers to the "anointed priest."
Leviticus 6:22 - the "anointed priest" in succession.
1 Samuel 12:3,5 - refers to Saul as God’s anointed.
1 Samuel 16:6 - refers to David as the Lord’s anointed.
etc...

There are dozens of examples of those who are mashiach (messiah) in the Bible. Random priests, Saul, and David aren't "fully God" are they?

It's the connection between what Jesus did and His self identity that makes Messiah not just another anointed one. The meaning for Jesus is unique.

Also..where is the name Messiah attached to Saul, David etc?

They were anointed for service to God ..but actually called Messiah?
 
Yes. I've noticed a concerted effort on the part of many, especially Messianic Jews, to try to sway us to their anti-Trinitarian way of erroneous thinking. This effort on their part is our modern day form of "Judaizing" that Paul directly accused Peter of. I hope many of them wake up to their errors sooner than later.
i'm looking at a different part of your post this time ...
I don't actually have any Messianic Jew groups in mind. I just notice there are probably these non-Jews among Christians who feel some attraction or benefit to using Jewish names and language as if that made their life more accurate. It actually is a step backwards, especially seen with this anti-Trinitarian campaign. It is as if they think they have to drop knowledge of Christ's divinity despite the fact of Jewish discussion on the two powers in heaven happening around the first century. The attraction to Jewish culture happens despite the scriptures showing how the Israel people kept falling away from God and hence the need for the Messiah.
 
It's the connection between what Jesus did and His self identity that makes Messiah not just another anointed one. The meaning for Jesus is unique.
What do you believe Jesus did?

Also..where is the name Messiah attached to Saul, David etc?

They were anointed for service to God ..but actually called Messiah?
I am not aware if they were ever regularly called "David the Messiah" or "Saul the Messiah" but maybe they were. Hard to tell.
 
Interestingly I have been on vacation and outside of my normal familiar territory. I have noticed these anti-trinitarian billboards. This suggests a deceptive or distracting campaign like the geocentric model that has been pushed strong in the last 5 or more years.

I'm not sure how recent this anti-trinitarian push against scripture began. Is this more in the last several years?

There was also a debate of between a trinitarian and anti-trinitarian on friday. I could not hear the unitarian well but doubt he had anything convincing. This is the video:

One thing that seems tied with this is the Hebrew name advocates, as if Jesus and our Father cannot recognize their names shared in various languages. That is true of the group putting up the billboards. Their website is wlc.org. They then throw in the false eschatology concepts since their website is world's last chance. They also have the logo of an antenna with the words WLC Radio. The website reminds me of that guy Armstrong who also was focused on the so-called end of the world so I wonder if this is a revamp of that.

Anyhow, a quick look at a page with questions for orthodox Christians shows the same confusion about Christ as we see shared by the unitarians here. Okay. this website might be a bit worse, but still the same misconceptions. I doubt they try to address the many passages that reflect the divinity of Christ in the Godhead, so I will not look deeply into their points. And sorry for tying all these perspectives together, but this group was triggering thoughts about all the weird things being pushed in recent years. That website makes it seem like all of these are part of a coordinated effort of disinformation, though there may be some independent advocates of any of these doctrines.
I'm not sure how recent this anti-trinitarian push against scripture began. Is this more in the last several years?
YES = more and more to come

They MUST deny that God is Elohim/Plural for they MUST deny CHRIST as God and the Holy Spirit as God also

This opens the door for all kinds of false doctrines, false prophets and the falling away

It also opens wide the LIE that Mohammad is equal to 'jesus' = SEE
 
The Trinity is complex, and half the people that hold it cannot fully defend or articulate it. And that's okay, really.

But if someone merely adopts it from church history, I do not think they have come to the revelation on their own.

The Trinity is a deep mystery that must come by revelation, just is as the Atonement, and all central doctrines.
But the other can!!!
i am part of "the other half that can"

The mystery of Elohim begins in Genesis and HE did make it easy for us to SEE = very easy in fact

The reasons why:
#1 - Religion
#2 - respect of persons
#3 - we fail to abandon ourselves to the Holy Spirit and the Holy Scriptures because of #1 & #2

#1 is ur-in
#2 most dangerous and stinks real bad
 
YES = more and more to come

They MUST deny that God is Elohim/Plural for they MUST deny CHRIST as God and the Holy Spirit as God also

This opens the door for all kinds of false doctrines, false prophets and the falling away

It also opens wide the LIE that Mohammad is equal to 'jesus' = SEE
Did you know that elohim is invariably described with singular pronouns and/or attributes? Elohim is plural, but not in the way you're thinking. Elohim is regularly assigned to the one and only singular God, YHWH, or singular people, for amplification purposes, not a plural of persons, but a plural of intensity. This is all supported by Hebrew grammar experts.
 
Did you know that elohim is invariably described with singular pronouns and/or attributes? Elohim is plural, but not in the way you're thinking. Elohim is regularly assigned to the one and only singular God, YHWH, or singular people, for amplification purposes, not a plural of persons, but a plural of intensity. This is all supported by Hebrew grammar experts.
written in singular because ELOHIM are ECHAD

When One Speaks THEY all Speak the same TRUTH
 
written in singular because ELOHIM are ECHAD

When One Speaks THEY all Speak the same TRUTH
Not even that. What you're doing is beginning with theology first and looking for verses to justify it with. If you begin with Scripture, you won't find a trinity in the first place. Trinitarianism is textbook eisegesis.
 
Please show one example of God beginning described as more than one then.

1. Genesis 1:26


Hebrew:
וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים נַעֲשֶׂה אָדָם בְּצַלְמֵנוּ כִּדְמוּתֵנוּ
Translation:
Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.”
Note: Plural verb נַעֲשֶׂה (na'aseh, "let us make") and plural pronouns.

2. Genesis 3:22


Hebrew:
הֵן הָאָדָם הָיָה כְּאַחַד מִמֶּנּוּ
Translation:
“Behold, the man has become like one of us.”
Note: Plural pronoun מִמֶּנּוּ (mimmenu, “of us”).

3. Genesis 11:7


Hebrew:
הָבָה נֵרְדָה וְנָבְלָה שָׁם שְׂפָתָם
Translation:
“Come, let us go down and confuse their language.”
Note: Plural verb נֵרְדָה (nerdah, “let us go down”).

4. Isaiah 6:8


Hebrew:
אֶת־מִי אֶשְׁלַח וּמִי יֵלֶךְ לָנוּ
Translation:
“Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?”
Note: Plural pronoun לָנוּ (lanu, “for us”).
 
Not even that. What you're doing is beginning with theology first and looking for verses to justify it with. If you begin with Scripture, you won't find a trinity in the first place. Trinitarianism is textbook eisegesis.
What i am doing is what God commands you and everyone to do = Believe His Word

Strong's Lexicon​
In the beginning
בְּרֵאשִׁ֖ית (bə·rê·šîṯ)
Preposition-b | Noun - feminine singular
Strong's Hebrew 7225: 1) first, beginning, best, chief 1a) beginning 1b) first 1c) chief 1d) choice part

God
אֱלֹהִ֑ים (’ĕ·lō·hîm)
Noun - masculine plural
Strong's Hebrew 430: 1) (plural) 1a) rulers, judges 1b) divine ones 1c) angels 1d) gods 2) (plural intensive-singular meaning) 2a) god, goddess 2b) godlike one 2c) works or special possessions of God 2d) the (true) God 2e) God​

Genesis 1:26 - Let Us make man in Our image according to Our likeness

Written for children to SEE
 
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