Medical euthanasia?

[Swordman]

I wanted to get some opinions here. I am pro-life, embracing more than just an anti-abortion position. I even resist capital punishment, except in extreme cases. So I wanted to run a recent situation by this group.

My mother-in-law died last Sunday at the age of 94. She had a long life and we celebrated it two days ago.

However, at the dinner after the memorial service my brother-in-law, a pastor and ex-hospital chaplain, mentioned that the hospital had given her a combination of drugs that he labeled as a "death cocktail." While she probably would have died within a week more, and she was in pain, this accelerated the process.

What are your thoughts on this? This seems to be a common process. (We both found it troubling.)

 

[JoshebB]

Do I have to use medicine to put someone out of my misery? (asking for a friend)


This "death cocktail" may have been a mixture of analgesics, not something causing death, although the "she would have died anyway" is code for "I killed," hiding behind the guise of "in my speculative opinion she would have died in a week." The larger reality is 1) 94 years old is very old and 2) modern medicine prolongs people's lives well beyond any normal where treatment is lacking. In the past, high cholesterol or triglycerides has contributed to the death of many an old person. Give a person a statin and extend their life long enough for degenerative neuropathy to set ( a potential side-effect of long-term statin usage) and then prescribe medication to treat the symptom-turned-diagnosis and call it a life-saving measure. Add some pain killers a week before they die, and it's called mercy.

All rhetoric aside, the point is the entire debate exists in a skewed context.

If no medical care is provided most of us would be dead long before we will die. My father-in-law had a barely functional heart, but implanted pacemaker and defibrillator saved his life on multiple occasions when he would have otherwise died. He dropped me off at my office one time so I could retrieve my laptop, and when I returned to the car, he was convulsing due to the defibrillator firing. Without those devices I'd have returned to a corpse. Years later, when he caught COVID-19, his condition rapidly deteriorated and analgesics were prescribed to make him "comfortable." The opiates likely hastened his demise.... but, man, did he feel good going .

My mom is 90 and she can't remember what happened ten minutes ago. She's always been willing to aggress verbally, but now she's downright ornery; so bad it's hard to find any care takers. They won't admit it, but I can probably find a dozen caretakers (and a few family members) who think the world would be a better place without her. Afterall, she's not going to remember. I'm 65 and I ache all over most of the time. I make audible noise when I move. If I focus on that I say, "Put me out of my misery. Here I come, Jesus! Let's get that glorified body thing started!" But if I look a lifetime of changes others' lives for the better knowing I may have another decade or two to do more of that, then I'm putting on my britches and leaving an empty gown on the gurney. I'll take the aches and pain, thank you.

But then again, cancer is not ravaging my insides, my pancreas isn't shutting down, my colon is still intact, and I don't have defibrillator repeatedly shocking me. I was raised in the country and when the dog got sick a bullet was used. I put my favorite dog, Tulio, down two years ago, at the vets and it was quiet and peaceful. I felt sad . Never felt that way about any other pet (dog or otherwise). Maybe I should have shot him, spared myself the grief, and taken comfort I had..... put him out of both our misery.


The paradox of Christianity is that Jesus committed suicide, and his Father hastened his demise . That does not mean we have license to do likewise . So, I'm inclined to say none of us know the answer; we just have opinions and all of them are biased and circumstantial.

This seems to be a common process. (We both found it troubling.)

Before doctors existed, there were shamans and priests. They've been "making people feel comfortable" for millennia. They simply did so without first-world ethics prompting debate.

 

[Swordman]

Thanks for the thoughts. These are certainly things to think about.

 

[MTMattie]

I wanted to get some opinions here. I am pro-life, embracing more than just an anti-abortion position. I even resist capital punishment, except in extreme cases. So I wanted to run a recent situation by this group.

My mother-in-law died last Sunday at the age of 94. She had a long life and we celebrated it two days ago.

However, at the dinner after the memorial service my brother-in-law, a pastor and ex-hospital chaplain, mentioned that the hospital had given her a combination of drugs that he labeled as a "death cocktail." While she probably would have died within a week more, and she was in pain, this accelerated the process.

What are your thoughts on this? This seems to be a common process. (We both found it troubling.)

It is not up to man to interfere with the appointed time of anyone's death.

Capital punishment though is another matter for as was in the OT a lot, even God gave orders to stone and kill for various reasons.

A baby is a life. When it was conceived I believe is when God pit the soul/spirit into that little one. I have trouble with the idea of abortion
for any reason, though rape... there should never be a time when a woman cannot get the morning after pill to actually stop the conception...

I would say the same for incest, if possible, but I can see sticking points there. But it still is a child that has come into being from God, and would rather adoption be the norm then abortion.

As to the health of the mother. I cant specifically call that one either way. I easily see both sides... but God wont.

As to medically induced euthanasia...

I just lost my 90 year old mother who had been declining under dementia badly this year. (Was going on for years)
Due to a fall and ending up in a therapy home for a few weeks then and assisted care memory unit home to another few weeks
her decline was so rapid, and I found myself asking God to take her home.... daily while in the therapy place.

I knew it was just a matter of time but would have been appalled for her to have been "taken out" as it were.

I encouraged and approved their use of medicine to keep her as much out of pain and comfortable as possible. And the last day of her life, knowing she was on rapid decline, I saw her and said my goodbyes and told her is was alright for her to go

The hospice nurse said checked her vitals while I was there and all wan good except no pulse in her right leg. Her BP was 141/70
.Though her oxygen was 88.

The nurse explained she though it could or would be days, even possibly 2 weeks before she would die. Then later a friend stopped to see her after work and held her hand. It was about 6:30 when he called me to say her pulse was very weak.
And it was just about 2 hours later, at 8:40 that night I got the call that she had passed.

God's timing? My permission to her that she could go? or both. But I would personally have reported to the authorities if I had thought anyone had given her a shot.

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

as much as i have warned out against this most deceptive pope to ever reign .
I still felt sad when i seen the article that said Cardinal , forgot his name , believes the pope is nearing death .
I TRULY prayed and truly wished HE had repented . GOD would have forgiven him .
But never conform to the lie and lies of interfaith . it was sad when i read the article , cause
GOD dont desire the death of the wicked but rather they had repented .

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

It is not up to man to interfere with the appointed time of anyone's death.

Capital punishment though is another matter for as was in the OT a lot, even God gave orders to stone and kill for various reasons.

A baby is a life. When it was conceived I believe is when God pit the soul/spirit into that little one. I have trouble with the idea of abortion
for any reason, though rape... there should never be a time when a woman cannot get the morning after pill to actually stop the conception...

I would say the same for incest, if possible, but I can see sticking points there. But it still is a child that has come into being from God, and would rather adoption be the norm then abortion.

As to the health of the mother. I cant specifically call that one either way. I easily see both sides... but God wont.

As to medically induced euthanasia...

I just lost my 90 year old mother who had been declining under dementia badly this year. (Was going on for years)
Due to a fall and ending up in a therapy home for a few weeks then and assisted care memory unit home to another few weeks
her decline was so rapid, and I found myself asking God to take her home.... daily while in the therapy place.

I knew it was just a matter of time but would have been appalled for her to have been "taken out" as it were.

I encouraged and approved their use of medicine to keep her as much out of pain and comfortable as possible. And the last day of her life, knowing she was on rapid decline, I saw her and said my goodbyes and told her is was alright for her to go

The hospice nurse said checked her vitals while I was there and all wan good except no pulse in her right leg. Her BP was 141/70
.Though her oxygen was 88.

The nurse explained she though it could or would be days, even possibly 2 weeks before she would die. Then later a friend stopped to see her after work and held her hand. It was about 6:30 when he called me to say her pulse was very weak.
And it was just about 2 hours later, at 8:40 that night I got the call that she had passed.

God's timing? My permission to her that she could go? or both. But I would personally have reported to the authorities if I had thought anyone had given her a shot.

your on the big site . I remember this my friend . i remember you asking us for prayer too .
Mama was in the hospital at the time . i just cant seem to remember your name on that site . But i do remember this .

 

[MTMattie]

your on the big site . I remember this my friend . i remember you asking us for prayer too .
Mama was in the hospital at the time . i just cant seem to remember your name on that site . But i do remember this .

You remember me on another site asking for prayers for my mother? It would have been recently because she went into the hospital Aug 26th for a broken femur and passed on on Oct 14. About 7 weeks later.


Could be, but certainly was not for her demise as that would have been tantamount to murder. There is only one site I have been on that
has a dedicated prayer forum. And I am there not just for me but for many others that Matt 18:19 fills. “Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven."

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

You remember me on another site asking for prayers for my mother? It would have been recently because she went into the hospital Aug 26th for a broken femur and passed on on Oct 14. About 7 weeks later.


Could be, but certainly was not for her demise as that would have been tantamount to murder. There is only one site I have been on that
has a dedicated prayer forum. And I am there not just for me but for many others that Matt 18:19 fills. “Again I say to you, that if two of you agree on earth about anything that they may ask, it shall be done for them by My Father who is in heaven."

Yes it was around that time . It was on the PRAYER request too .
She actually , if i recall had made it home too for a while .
But then later got worse . she was not wanting to really eat for a bit but then you all got her to eat .
It has to be you my friend . YEP we were praying for you and mama too . At least now SHE IS IN A FAR FAR FAR better place with THE KING .

 

[MTMattie]

Yes it was around that time . It was on the PRAYER request too .
She actually , if i recall had made it home too for a while .
But then later got worse . she was not wanting to really eat for a bit but then you all got her to eat .
It has to be you my friend . YEP we were praying for you and mama too . At least now SHE IS IN A FAR FAR FAR better place with THE KING .

No, that was not me.

My mom went in because she had fallen again last year and then the pain in her leg was so bad that it was off to the ER.

They found a cracked femur right next to her hip replacement and sent he to a rehab place for therapy so she would learn to walk
with a walked WITH OUT outting her weight on that leg ??????????????? (DONT ASK... she didnt but she did use the walker briefly in therapy there.)

Then each day she was there her mind was getting worse and worse. And I knew she would never be able to come home as there was no room for a wheel chair to move in here and a walker not good either.

So I made arrangements to have her go to a wonderful assisted living place... it looked so much like a southern bed and breakfast and without
question they automatically placed her in the memory unit, and under hospice care.

She never came home at all. Her eating was pick at best for the last year of her life here and it did not improve there

It was 4 days before she was to be transferred to the other home that I came down with Covid. And I had been in the habit of going to be with her
for 7 hours a day to feed her lunch and dinner... and sit there. So all of a sudden I was not there.

I suspect that had a big part in the memory decline. In a place she did not know with people she really did not know??? Then once she was moved it was not until a week later after 3 test came negative I could see her.

I tried to make her realize I had been sick and they did not want me there... but she just gave me a sideways look of mistrust.

But she was in so much pain, and her mind was failing at an unbelievable rate. She would not stay in bed , had to be in a wheel chair
that she would try to get out of.

Does any of this sound familiar?

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

No, that was not me.

My mom went in because she had fallen again last year and then the pain in her leg was so bad that it was off to the ER.

They found a cracked femur right next to her hip replacement and sent he to a rehab place for therapy so she would learn to walk
with a walked WITH OUT outting her weight on that leg ??????????????? (DONT ASK... she didnt but she did use the walker briefly in therapy there.)

Then each day she was there her mind was getting worse and worse. And I knew she would never be able to come home as there was no room for a wheel chair to move in here and a walker not good either.

So I made arrangements to have her go to a wonderful assisted living place... it looked so much like a southern bed and breakfast and without
question they automatically placed her in the memory unit, and under hospice care.

She never came home at all. Her eating was pick at best for the last year of her life here and it did not improve there

It was 4 days before she was to be transferred to the other home that I came down with Covid. And I had been in the habit of going to be with her
for 7 hours a day to feed her lunch and dinner... and sit there. So all of a sudden I was not there.

I suspect that had a big part in the memory decline. In a place she did not know with people she really did not know??? Then once she was moved it was not until a week later after 3 test came negative I could see her.

I tried to make her realize I had been sick and they did not want me there... but she just gave me a sideways look of mistrust.

But she was in so much pain, and her mind was failing at an unbelievable rate. She would not stay in bed , had to be in a wheel chair
that she would try to get out of.

Does any of this sound familiar?

YEs it all does . i guess i had it in my head for some reason she came home . it was assisted living , not home . i guess
i got that part messed up .

 

[MTMattie]

YEs it all does . i guess i had it in my head for some reason she came home . it was assisted living , not home . i guess
i got that part messed up .

Well, old friend. Nice to see you here.

Though your user name I am not recalling.

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Well, old friend. Nice to see you here.

Though your user name I am not recalling.

i got stoned off that big site , LOL , well at least till feb twenty eigth .
TO the trenches mattie , you can recognize me by my words my friend .
But here is a hint . THIS SHEEP WONT HEED a word one outta they mouth of interfaith all inclusive .
You seen me before my friend . But to even speak my name here might cause a great uprising , LOL . no i kid .
Its much more biblical on this site .

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Well, old friend. Nice to see you here.

Though your user name I am not recalling.

Me thinks i might have just remembered you name on that site . Does it start with an R and end with an A .
its the picture that made me remember . Hands up it be LORD praising time in the building .

 

[MTMattie]

i got stoned off that big site , LOL , well at least till feb twenty eigth .
TO the trenches mattie , you can recognize me by my words my friend .
But here is a hint . THIS SHEEP WONT HEED a word one outta they mouth of interfaith all inclusive .
You seen me before my friend . But to even speak my name here might cause a great uprising , LOL . no i kid .
Its much more biblical on this site .

The site I am referring to is very small. It was down for months last year and they lost most of their posters.

And they never toss anyone off with a come back date. You are either gone or get a wrist slapped.

I have been permanently banned before I found this one. They called me a witch. Their loss.

 

[MTMattie]

Me thinks i might have just remembered you name on that site . Does it start with an R and end with an A .
its the picture that made me remember . Hands up it be LORD praising time in the building .

Yes... I have used that name everywhere except here.

My Avatar is a painting that was done By Akiane when she was 8 years old. Great gift God gave her and great artist though she is all drown up now.
The title of the oil is Prince of Peace.

Ok the site you are thinking was a big site that you read my story in the Prayer forum... has the initials GC. It is owned by a person whose initials ar LW.... and if you were around at the time a couple years ago there was a big debate over a book he wrote.

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

The site I am referring to is very small. It was down for months last year and they lost most of their posters.

And they never toss anyone off with a come back date. You are either gone or get a wrist slapped.

I have been permanently banned before I found this one. They called me a witch. Their loss.

yes the site i was talking about it bigger . But you were on it , at least on the prayer section .
Witch .
I been called as bad and worse . anti christ , son of perdtion , satan . and that by christains so called
who refused once to help me with the one true gospel and rather embraced a false one .
But , JESUS said rejoice when you are evil spoken of FOR HIS name sake . SO while i sorrow for them
I REJOICE in the LORD .

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Yes... I have used that name everywhere except here.

My Avatar is a painting that was done By Akiane when she was 8 years old. Great gift God gave her and great artist though she is all drown up now.
The title of the oil is Prince of Peace.

Ok the site you are thinking was a big site that you read my story in the Prayer forum... has the initials GC. It is owned by a person whose initials ar LW.... and if you were around at the time a couple years ago there was a big debate over a book he wrote.

I dont remember a debate about a big book . But i dont read all threads either .

 

[MTMattie]

yes the site i was talking about it bigger . But you were on it , at least on the prayer section .
Witch .
I been called as bad and worse . anti christ , son of perdtion , satan . and that by christains so called
who refused once to help me with the one true gospel and rather embraced a false one .
But , JESUS said rejoice when you are evil spoken of FOR HIS name sake . SO while i sorrow for them
I REJOICE in the LORD .

Well my being called a witch I believe is because someone on the small one called me that... and if you had been there you would remember about that. Also another good friend of mine was called Jezebel. I think that person found me elsewhere and set about to get me off. I dont care but what I do care about is that there you were not given a warning or anyway to counter a charge.

I like this much better.

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Well my being called a witch I believe is because someone on the small one called me that... and if you had been there you would remember about that. Also another good friend of mine was called Jezebel. I think that person found me elsewhere and set about to get me off. I dont care but what I do care about is that there you were not given a warning or anyway to counter a charge.

I like this much better.

I have no recollection of that . But i dont read every thread or post either .
Maybe i skimmed over it without reading it . I do that a whole lot .
I often go to the last page and just start posting things .

 

[TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY]

Well my being called a witch I believe is because someone on the small one called me that... and if you had been there you would remember about that. Also another good friend of mine was called Jezebel. I think that person found me elsewhere and set about to get me off. I dont care but what I do care about is that there you were not given a warning or anyway to counter a charge.

I like this much better.

you aint kidding about that . it seems like if a select few report you
Then BANNED you are without no real reason . but mine , this time , for its not been the first , was only twenty days .
The other three were for thirty days at a time .