Anti-PSA—explain to me how the Blood of Jesus is connected to forgiving.

[Johann]

Purification for sin- καθαρισμός- katharismos: a cleansing, purifying, purification, expiation. Strongs 2512.

Thayers: a cleansing from the guilt of sins (see καθαρίζω, 1 b. β.): wrought now by baptism, 2 Peter 1:9, now by the expiatory sacrifice of Christ, Hebrews 1:3 on which cf. Kurtz, Commentary, p. 70; (Exodus 30:10; τῆς ἁμαρτίας μου, Job 7:21; of an atonement, Lucian, asin. 22)

Hebrews 1:3-And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Purification for sin is in the blood of Christ in the Atonement

Matthew 26:26-29
While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

Hebrews 9:22
Because all things are purged by blood in The Written Law, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Leviticus 4:20,26,35
And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and the priest shall make an atonement for them, and it shall be forgiven them

Leviticus 6:7
And the priest shall make an atonement for him before the LORD: and it shall be forgiven him for any thing of all that he hath done in trespassing therein.

Leviticus 17:11
For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for your souls upon the altar; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.

Hebrews 9
Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. 2 A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand and the table with its consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place. 3 Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, 4 which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. This ark contained the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. 5 Above the ark were the cherubim of the Glory, overshadowing the atonement cover. But we cannot discuss these things in detail now. 6 When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. 7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9 This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10 They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.

The forgiveness of sins is found only in the blood of Christ- His life which He gave as a sacrifice for sin. That is the heart of the Atonement. It is what the New Covenant is found upon His blood, His life which was given for our sins. Forgiveness is only found in His blood that He gave His life on our behalf. That is how are sins are removed and taken away. That is what the Law required for sin was the blood of the animal sacrifice.

There is no "punishment" above anywhere. There is a sacrifice provided which covers and provides forgiveness of sins. The entire book of Hebrews is built upon the OT Law and how it is fulfilled in Christ.

Jesus said He gave His life as a Ransom . Strongs 3038- Lutron λύτρον. the purchasing money for manumitting slaves, a ransom, the price of ransoming; especially the sacrifice by which expiation is effected, an offering of expiation. Thayers: λύτρον, λύτρου, τό (λύω), the Sept. passim for כֹּפֶר, גְּאֻלָּה, פִּדְיון, etc.; the price for redeeming, ransom (paid for slaves, Leviticus 19:20; for captives, Isaiah 45:13; for the ransom of a life, Exodus 21:30; Numbers 35:31f): ἀντί πολλῶν, to liberate many from the misery and penalty of their sins, Matthew 20:28; Mark 10:45. (Pindar, Aeschylus, Xenophon, Plato, others.)

Matthew 20:28- just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life as a ransom for many

hope this helps !!!

1. כִּפֻּר (Kippur):
   • Meaning: Atonement, covering.
   • Detailed Explanation: Kippur involves the idea of atoning for sins through rituals that symbolically cover or remove sin. The most prominent example is Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement), described in Leviticus 16, where the High Priest makes atonement for the sins of Israel through the sacrifice of a goat and the sending away of a scapegoat.
2. טָהֳרָה (Tahorah):
   • Meaning: Purification, cleanness.
   • Detailed Explanation: Tahorah is a state of ritual purity achieved through specific procedures. This includes immersion in a mikvah (ritual bath) and offering sacrifices. Tahorah is essential for individuals who have become ritually impure through contact with certain contaminants, such as corpses (Numbers 19).
3. כִּפֶּר (Kipper):
   • Meaning: To atone, to cover.
   • Detailed Explanation: This verb is closely associated with the act of atonement. It often involves blood sacrifices, which are central to the atonement rituals described in Leviticus. For example, Leviticus 17:11 emphasizes the role of blood in making atonement.
4. חַטָּאת (Chatat):
   • Meaning: Sin offering.
   • Detailed Explanation: The chatat is a specific type of offering made for the atonement of unintentional sins. Detailed instructions for offering a sin offering are given in Leviticus 4. This offering involves the sacrifice of an animal, whose blood is used to cleanse the altar and the people from impurity.

Rituals and Sacrifices:​

1. Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur):
   • Rituals: On Yom Kippur, the High Priest performs a series of rituals to atone for the sins of Israel. This includes entering the Holy of Holies to sprinkle blood on the mercy seat and the release of a scapegoat bearing the sins of the people into the wilderness (Leviticus 16).
2. Sin Offering (Chatat):
   • Procedure: When someone sins unintentionally, they must bring a specific animal (a bull, goat, or lamb) to the priest. The priest then sacrifices the animal, and its blood is used to purify the altar and the person who sinned (Leviticus 4).
3. Burnt Offering (Olah):
   • Procedure: The burnt offering involves burning the entire animal on the altar. This sacrifice signifies complete dedication to God and atonement for sin. It is described in Leviticus 1.
4. Purification Rituals:
   • Mikvah (Ritual Bath): Immersion in a mikvah is required for purification from certain impurities, such as after contact with a corpse or after childbirth (Leviticus 15, Numbers 19).
   • Red Heifer Ritual: This unique ritual involves the sacrifice of a red heifer, whose ashes are mixed with water to create a purification mixture used to cleanse those who have come into contact with a dead body (Numbers 19).

Symbolism and Theology:​

• Blood as a Purifying Agent: Blood plays a central role in purification rituals. Leviticus 17:11 explains that life is in the blood, and it is given on the altar to make atonement for souls. This underscores the belief that life (symbolized by blood) can purify and atone for sin.
• Scapegoat: The scapegoat ritual on Yom Kippur (Leviticus 16) symbolizes the removal of sin from the community. The High Priest transfers the sins of the people onto the goat, which is then sent into the wilderness, symbolizing the carrying away of their sins.

Conclusion:​

Purification from sin in the Hebrew Bible involves a combination of sacrifices, rituals, and symbolic acts designed to restore individuals and the community to a state of ritual purity and right standing with God. The intricate details of these rituals underscore the seriousness with which sin and impurity are treated and the lengths to which the Israelites were commanded to go to maintain holiness.




The Hebrew Bible contains various elements of punishment in connection with purification for sin. These punishments are often intertwined with the rituals and laws designed to maintain holiness and purity among the Israelites. Here are some specific instances and concepts:

Examples of Punishment Related to Purification:
Day of Atonement (Yom Kippur):

Punishment for Non-Observance: Leviticus 23:29-30 states that anyone who does not humble themselves on this day or who does any work shall be cut off from their people or destroyed. This underscores the severe consequences for failing to participate in the purification rituals prescribed for Yom Kippur.
Contact with Dead Bodies:

Punishment for Impurity: Numbers 19:13 outlines that anyone who touches a dead body and does not purify themselves with the water mixed with the ashes of the red heifer shall be cut off from Israel. This punishment for failing to undergo purification underscores the seriousness of ritual purity laws.
Sin Offering (Chatat):

Punishment for Sin: While the sin offering itself is a means of atonement and purification, Leviticus 4 describes the necessity of this offering to avoid the consequences of sin. The underlying punishment for sin is death, but the offering provides a way to atone and avoid this ultimate punishment.
Burnt Offering (Olah):

Punishment for Failure to Offer: Leviticus 1 implies that failing to bring the appropriate offerings would result in a breach of the covenant, which could lead to divine punishment, including being cut off from the community or suffering divine wrath.
Symbolic Punishments and Consequences:
Scapegoat Ritual:

Symbolic Removal of Punishment: In Leviticus 16, the scapegoat carries the sins of the people into the wilderness, symbolically removing the punishment from the community. This act shows that while punishment is deserved, it can be transferred and carried away.
Blood as a Purifying Agent:

Punishment through Sacrifice: The sacrificial system itself is a form of punishment, as it requires the death of an animal in place of the sinner. Leviticus 17:11 emphasizes that life is in the blood, and blood is required to make atonement for sin, illustrating the gravity of sin and its consequences.

Rituals and Laws with Punitive Aspects:
Impurity and Exclusion:

Punishment for Remaining Impure: Leviticus 15 describes various impurities and the required purification rituals. Failing to adhere to these laws results in being unclean and excluded from the community until purification is completed, highlighting the punitive aspect of ritual impurity.
Punishment for Idolatry and Rebellion:

Punishments Described: Throughout the Torah, severe punishments are prescribed for idolatry and rebellion against God's laws, such as being stoned to death (Deuteronomy 17:2-5) or being cut off from the people (Exodus 31:14).
Conclusion:

While the primary focus of the purification rituals and sacrifices is on atonement and restoration, there is an inherent punitive aspect in the system. The consequences for failing to observe these rituals or for remaining in a state of impurity often involve severe punishments, including being cut off from the community or facing divine retribution. This underscores the seriousness of maintaining ritual and moral purity in the Israelite community.

These elements can be found throughout the Torah, particularly in books like Leviticus and Numbers. For further study, refer to detailed commentaries and scholarly works on the Hebrew Bible and its sacrificial and purification systems.

Additional Sources for In-depth Study:
The Expositor's Bible Commentary
The New International Commentary on the Old Testament
Leviticus, Numbers (Word Biblical Commentary)
The Torah: A Modern Commentary by W. Gunther Plaut
These sources offer comprehensive insights and scholarly interpretations of the Hebrew Bible's purification and punishment themes.

Groping in the dark-here-the sources. At least I'm learning-still learning till the Lord Jesus comes to bring us home.

 

[civic]

I’ll stick with my personal studying on the topic and make my own conclusions comparing scripture with scripture, precept upon precept with the guidance of the Holy Spirit confirming the truth of Gods nature and character with my Theology to make sure they match up

PSA pits the Father against the Son via wrath, anger, vengeance and retribution. It divided the unity in the Godhead.

Next

 

[Johann]

I’ll stick with my personal studying on the topic and make my own conclusions comparing scripture with scripture, precept upon precept with the guidance of the Holy Spirit confirming the truth of Gods nature and character with my Theology to make sure they match up

PSA pits the Father against the Son via wrath, anger, vengeance and retribution. It divided the unity in the Godhead.

Next

You say you don't copy and paste but you are very prolific at it-you don't have to feel threatened since what you have is much, much more than I have.
All I'm trying to show you is where to look but this is what I get from you-"Next"

 

[civic]

You say you don't copy and paste but you are very prolific at it-you don't have to feel threatened since what you have is much, much more than I have.
All I'm trying to show you is where to look but this is what I get from you-"Next"

I know all the arguments for PSA just like I do with Calvinism since I taught it for decades. I know them very well. You will not teach me something I don’t already know with tulip or PSA.

 

[Johann]

I know all the arguments for PSA just like I do with Calvinism since I taught it for decades. I know them very well. You will not teach me something I don’t already know with tulip or PSA.

Looks like you have arrived-no need for further learning . BTW I am not here to "teach" you since I'm still scouting for that ONE person I can have fellowship with-you, however, have it all neatly nice and tucked.
Here in South Africa there is a dearth of Biblical study tools but I am content with the little I have.

 

[civic]

Looks like you have arrived-no need for further learning . BTW I am not here to "teach" you since I'm still scouting for that ONE person I can have fellowship with-you, however, have it all neatly nice and tucked.
Here in South Africa there is a dearth of Biblical study tools but I am content with the little I have.

This isn’t about what I have or you have it’s about truth.

 

[Johann]

This isn’t about what I have or you have it’s about truth.

And civic has all the Aleithia/ot emes-not sparing the rod.

 

[TomL]

You don't know-YHVH had to deal with the Chattat and the Avon-a very good case for PSA.

Um There is no evidence in dealing with sin and iniquity God had to take his wrath out on Christ

 

[civic]

Um There is no evidence in dealing with sin and iniquity God had to take his wrath out on Christ

Amen

 

[TomL]

1. כִּפֻּר (Kippur):
   • Meaning: Atonement, covering.
   • Detailed Explanation: Kippur involves the idea of atoning for sins through rituals that symbolically cover or remove sin. The most prominent example is Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement), described in Leviticus 16, where the High Priest makes atonement for the sins of Israel through the sacrifice of a goat and the sending away of a scapegoat.

God did not express wrath toward the sacrifice.

The animal was not undergoing penalty

The sacrificial animal was not deemed unholy but remained holy

Kipper was not about satisfying a need in God to vent wrath or get payback

it was about covering or expiating sin

 

[civic]

God did not express wrath toward the sacrifice.

The animal was not undergoing penalty

The sacrificial animal was not deemed unholy but remained holy

Kipper was not about satisfying a need in God to vent wrath or get payback

it was about covering or expiating sin

Amen