And All Israel Shall Be Saved!

Yes. However, the author states that Jesus died for "us" (Jews/mixed race JEWS), He is also the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. It is a new covenant. It includes the Gentiles for salvation. The tree Paul writes about is not Israel. It is not the church. It is the new covenant. God took non-Jewish Gentiles from an uncultivated, wild tree, and grafted them in by His kindness. He cut the Jews out for unbelief in His severity. He, who has dealt with the Jews for so long, and even made a covenant with them, had them reject the covenant, so God is severe. However, while He would quickly cut out any Gentile who does not continue in His kindness, never to reattach, God will quickly reattach any Jew that repents and believes. The Gentiles do not have any other opportunity. Again, the distinction that exists between the chosen people of God of Israel, and those God chose of the non-Jewish Gentiles to whom He shows kindness. This is something you need to understand.

Yes. However, Jesus also saves Gentililes. Those who have no law at all, and those who are a law unto themselves. However, this is ONLY by faith. It isn't just, you are saved. It is the same for Jews. For Jews, they are both physical descendants of Abraham, who are destined to die and be damned, but for some, they are also spiritual descendants of Abraham by faith. This is why Jesus more than once ridicules those who say that they are something because they are descendants of Abraham. (Physical.) What did Jesus tell Nicodemus about those who were solely of the flesh? They will not see the kingdom of God. Only those born again of the spirit.

Paul was no longer a pharisee. He was dead set against the Judaizers. Paul tells us that the Old Testament is silent on Gentiles entering the church, but that this mystery had been revealed to him and the disciples at that time. Paul understands that. He has Timothy circumcised because he is part Jewish on his mother's side (while his father is a greek). Jewish ethnicity is recognized from the mother's side, not father's side. He did not have TItus get circumcised because Titus was a non-Jewish Gentile. There is a lot to this, so it isn't that simple, because it is also because if Timothy didn't get circumcised, it would have caused issues for Paul's ministry, just as it would have if Titus had gotten circumcised.

You are in error. By saying that salvation for the Jews is not by faith, you make yourself a heretic. Why? That is not the gospel. Paul said that anyone who did not teach/preach the gospel he had is accursed of God. Get yourself right on the gospel. Paul said the gospel is Christ and Christ crucified. Savlation by fatih in Christ. Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Get the gospel right. Then understand that the gospel is to all people. That doesn't change the existence of the Jews and the Gentililes. Their place is still present in the Bible. God is fulfilling the promise that He made with the serpent through Eve. Her seed. Not Adam's seed. (Perhaps He already spoke of a virgin birth even then?)

Savlation is for any who will believe in Jesus by faith. If they will not believe in Jesus by faith, they will not be saved. Neither Jew, nor non-Jewish Gentile. Read about what God has to say about the 1/3rd of Israel and the 2/3rds. He makes it VERY clear that the 2/3rds are damned.
You add to the Bible. You teach Jesus destroyed the Law of Moses NOT fulfilled it when you add Gentiles to God's salvation of the Jews.
When under the Law does God say the animal to be sacrificed ius to atone the sins of Gentiles??

Post that Scripture from the Law right here:
 
Now notice how the Church Christ redeemed is designated a peculiar people Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

That designation is only for Israel, remember Exodous 19:5

Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

Deut 14:2

For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

Notice a peculiar people unto Himself. Now what does the Holy Spirit say of the redeemed Church comprised of men and women of all ethnicities

Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Again purify unto Himself a peculiar people. Folks there can only be one peculiar people unto God, the very word peculiar denotes that. Its the greek word periousios:

  1. that which is one's own, belonging to one's possessions
    1. a people selected by God from the other nations for his own possession
    2. Now that's the Church, the Body of Christ, The Israel of God.

BTW this isn't replacement theology as some say, but fulfillment theology. The NT fulfills the OT !
 
That's what rabbi Saul said in Romans:

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Romans 11:25–27.

What covenant is that? The New Covenant instituted at the Passover by Jesus sealing it in His blood. God had been going towards this goal ever since He first made covenant promises with Abram the Hebrew (Genesis 14:13), in Genesis chapters 12, 15, and 17.
From Abram to the last Hebrew/Jew to be born into the world, ALL ISRAEL SHALL BE SAVED, Saul says in quoting Jeremiah who prophesied of a New Covenant between God and the Hebrew people. Jesus instituted this New Covenant at the Passover meal in the upper room (Passover: a Hebrew observance.) When Jesus was crucified and died on His cross His unblemished sacrifice to God was received and applied to the sins of every Hebrew born into the world. Here is Jeremiah's words on that:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel;
After those days, saith the LORD,
I will put my law in their inward parts,
And write it in their hearts;
And will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour (member of another tribe), and every man his brother (member of the same tribe), saying,
Know the LORD:
For they shall all know me,
From the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD:
For I will forgive their iniquity,
And I will remember their sin no more.
Jeremiah 31:33–34.

"For I will FORGIVE their iniquity and remember their sin NO MORE!

This, Jesus accomplished on the cross. And atonement was accomplished for all of Israel. God has forgiven the iniquity of Israel - even their supporting crucifying Him - and will remember their sin NO MORE!
Israel is restored to God and all Israel shall be saved.
Can I get an "Amen!"?
Paul, quoting Isaiah, also said, "Though the number of the sons of Israel be like the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved." Romans 9:27
So which is it? All Israel will be saved or just the remnant will be saved? They can't both be true, so the obvious answer is that "All Israel" refers to the remnant of Israel and the Gentile believers in Christ." Together they make up the Israel of God, according to Paul in Galatians 6:15-16
 
Paul, quoting Isaiah, also said, "Though the number of the sons of Israel be like the sand of the sea, it is the remnant that will be saved." Romans 9:27
Saul is not quoting Isaiah, he's changing Isaiah. NO PROPHET has any permission or right to change any other prophets' prophecy. But that's what Saul did and in doing this changed the meaning of an Old Testament prophet.
So which is it? All Israel will be saved or just the remnant will be saved? They can't both be true, so the obvious answer is that "All Israel" refers to the remnant of Israel and the Gentile believers in Christ." Together they make up the Israel of God, according to Paul in Galatians 6:15-16
Compare the passages.
Tell me if it's OK for Peter or John or even Jesus to change a prophecy by an Old Testament prophet.
 
Saul is not quoting Isaiah, he's changing Isaiah. NO PROPHET has any permission or right to change any other prophets' prophecy. But that's what Saul did and in doing this changed the meaning of an Old Testament prophet.
Say what? He is your hero. It is his name you have quoted more then anyone else's.... Now when proven he says what you disagree with you scorn him.
 
Say what? He is your hero. It is his name you have quoted more then anyone else's.... Now when proven he says what you disagree with you scorn him.
Isaiah:
22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, Yet a remnant of them shall return: Isaiah 10:22.

Saul:
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: Romans 9:26–27.

Return and saved are two different words.
Saul violates the Word of God by intentionally misquoting Isaiah thus changing and mutilating Isaiah's prophecy to make it say something it never meant to say.

This makes Saul a false apostle and prophet. He does these two more times in his letters.
 
Say what? He is your hero. It is his name you have quoted more then anyone else's.... Now when proven he says what you disagree with you scorn him.
What? You didn't know Saul changed a prophecy of Isaiah? When C.T. Russell or John Smith, or E.G. White does that they are called false prophet. Saul does it. What does that make him?
 
What? You didn't know Saul changed a prophecy of Isaiah? When C.T. Russell or John Smith, or E.G. White does that they are called false prophet. Saul does it. What does that make him?
I know what I know but you invoke his name ad nauseum..... I, for a long time have questioned Paul a lot..... but then who can question who the Heavenly Fathers chooses for whatever mission.

As to Saul... NO he did not change a prophesy of Isaiah..... he , Saul (Paul) did not change a prophecy of Isaiah. What he did do was quote and apply Isaiah in light of Christ, sometimes using the Greek translation (the Septuagint), which can read slightly differently from the Hebrew.

Actually Paul quotes Isaiah.......he doesn’t rewrite it​

Paul repeatedly appeals to Isaiah as authoritative Scripture, not something he alters.

Sucj as

Romans 10:16 that quotes Isaiah 53:1 (“Lord, who has believed our report?”)
Romans 10:20 that quotes Isaiah 65:1
Acts 13:47
that also quotes Isaiah 49:6

He presents these as already written, not changed.


The Septuagint factor (this is where confusion comes in), and one that I count second only to the Peshitta.​

Paul often quotes from the Greek Old Testament (Septuagint / LXX). That version was widely used in the first century.

See, Isaiah 28:16

Hebrew: “the one who believes will not be in haste”

LXX / Paul (Romans 10:11): “will not be put to shame”

That’s not Paul editing Isaiah.......it’s him quoting a known Greek rendering.

Then we need to study the Inspired interpretation, not alteration.​

Paul sometimes combines or applies Isaiah in a Christ-centered way:

Romans 9:33 blends Isaiah 8:14 + Isaiah 28:16

He identifies the “stone” as Christ

That’s interpretation/application—not changing the prophecy.

But not just Paul Same method used by others in Scripture​


This isn’t unique to Paul

The Gospel writers also quote Isaiah in slightly varied forms

Jewish teachers commonly paraphrased or combined texts

These are a small sample of truths.

If you still claim Paul “changed Isaiah,” the reality is

He quoted existing versions (often the LXX)

He also interpreted Isaiah through the lens of Christ

AndHe never presents himself as correcting or rewriting Isaiah
 
I know what I know but you invoke his name ad nauseum..... I, for a long time have questioned Paul a lot..... but then who can question who the Heavenly Fathers chooses for whatever mission.

As to Saul... NO he did not change a prophesy of Isaiah..... he , Saul (Paul) did not change a prophecy of Isaiah. What he did do was quote and apply Isaiah in light of Christ, sometimes using the Greek translation (the Septuagint), which can read slightly differently from the Hebrew.

Actually Paul quotes Isaiah.......he doesn’t rewrite it​

Paul repeatedly appeals to Isaiah as authoritative Scripture, not something he alters.

Sucj as

Romans 10:16 that quotes Isaiah 53:1 (“Lord, who has believed our report?”)
Romans 10:20 that quotes Isaiah 65:1
Acts 13:47
that also quotes Isaiah 49:6

He presents these as already written, not changed.


The Septuagint factor (this is where confusion comes in), and one that I count second only to the Peshitta.​

Paul often quotes from the Greek Old Testament (Septuagint / LXX). That version was widely used in the first century.

See, Isaiah 28:16

Hebrew: “the one who believes will not be in haste”

LXX / Paul (Romans 10:11): “will not be put to shame”

That’s not Paul editing Isaiah.......it’s him quoting a known Greek rendering.

Then we need to study the Inspired interpretation, not alteration.​

Paul sometimes combines or applies Isaiah in a Christ-centered way:

Romans 9:33 blends Isaiah 8:14 + Isaiah 28:16

He identifies the “stone” as Christ

That’s interpretation/application—not changing the prophecy.

But not just Paul Same method used by others in Scripture​


This isn’t unique to Paul

The Gospel writers also quote Isaiah in slightly varied forms

Jewish teachers commonly paraphrased or combined texts

These are a small sample of truths.

If you still claim Paul “changed Isaiah,” the reality is

He quoted existing versions (often the LXX)

He also interpreted Isaiah through the lens of Christ

AndHe never presents himself as correcting or rewriting Isaiah
Isaiah: 22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, Yet a remnant of them shall return: Isaiah 10:22.

Saul: 27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: Romans 9:26–27.

Return and saved are two different words.
Saul violates the Word of God by intentionally misquoting Isaiah thus changing and mutilating Isaiah's prophecy to make it say something it never meant to say.

It's in the text. Just compare these two passages. It is clear as day.

(Unless one walks in darkness.)
 
Isaiah: 22 For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, Yet a remnant of them shall return: Isaiah 10:22.

Saul: 27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: Romans 9:26–27.

Return and saved are two different words.
Saul violates the Word of God by intentionally misquoting

Well, there you go. God goofed when he was chosen. OR... God deliberately wanted the Jews and Gentiles believing opposite things.....

WHY would that be? God made as the Apostle to the Gentiles, as he was specifically called to spread the message of Jesus Christ to non-Jewish people.

Now your choice...

Either God knew that Saul was a little feeble mentally and therefore easily convinced to change prophesy.....

OR

God knew had this plan to destroy every single one of those gentiles, and by permitting them to be misled made it easier.

OR God Himself made it so that Saul would tell the Gentiles what they needed to hear.... because that was the very next step in Gods plan.

Your choice...... Pick one and lets discuss.

You came here like gang busters touting everything Hebraic Jew. When challenged you softened a bit and almost offered exceptions and certain ways.... like this Neanderthal based human person might just trace back to Abraham.

But you have come full circle and now you are all about no gentile being saved again.

All I know is if I were purposely made to walk the yellow brick road into @brightfame52 avatar... makes me wonder why I am even on here.

Have a good life. Mine is almost over and then I shall learn. Too bad you wont.

Isaiah thus changing and mutilating Isaiah's prophecy to make it say something it never meant to say.

It's in the text. Just compare these two passages. It is clear as day.

(Unless one walks in darkness.)
 
Well, there you go. God goofed when he was chosen. OR... God deliberately wanted the Jews and Gentiles believing opposite things.....
WHY would that be? God made as the Apostle to the Gentiles, as he was specifically called to spread the message of Jesus Christ to non-Jewish people.
No, God chose Abram and made covenant with him. Then God made covenant with the children of Israel He delivered out from the bondage of Egypt. Then, in the desert at Mount Sinai God made covenant with the children of Israel. And then, God made covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah as prophesied by Jeremiah the prophet. Then, this New Covenant was based on the blood of Jesus the Christ.
Now your choice...
Either God knew that Saul was a little feeble mentally and therefore easily convinced to change prophesy.....

OR

God knew had this plan to destroy every single one of those gentiles, and by permitting them to be misled made it easier.

OR God Himself made it so that Saul would tell the Gentiles what they needed to hear.... because that was the very next step in Gods plan.

Your choice...... Pick one and lets discuss.
Saul changed Isaiah's prophecy. This is a no-no. Taking what was written before by one of God's prophets and changing a word in that prophecy to rewrite it reflecting that change is a no-no. What would you say if I took a passage and changed a word to suit my purpose?

16 For God so loved the Israel, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever of Israel believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16.

If Saul can do it, so can I.
You came here like gang busters touting everything Hebraic Jew. When challenged you softened a bit and almost offered exceptions and certain ways.... like this Neanderthal based human person might just trace back to Abraham.

But you have come full circle and now you are all about no gentile being saved again.

All I know is if I were purposely made to walk the yellow brick road into @brightfame52 avatar... makes me wonder why I am even on here.

Have a good life. Mine is almost over and then I shall learn. Too bad you wont.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
2 Thessalonians 2:11–12.

ADDING Gentiles to the LORD'S salvation is the delusion God was referring. Notice it is a "strong delusion."
 
Saul changed Isaiah's prophecy. This is a no-no.
Why didn't God deal appropriately with hi. Look at all the damage Saul has done to mankind for thousands of years.... offering hope in a no hope situation...... Guess God did not mind Saul lied about that.
 
Why didn't God deal appropriately with hi. Look at all the damage Saul has done to mankind for thousands of years.... offering hope in a no hope situation...... Guess God did not mind Saul lied about that.
Now you're making God a co-conspiritor to Saul's sin. God doesn't "wink" at sin. He deals with it. And I'm sure He dealt with Saul's sin. We just don't know about it. Still, the record is clear: Saul changed a word in Isaiah's prophecy to make it say something the prophecy never meant. Deception. abuse of Scripture. This is serious stuff. Are you going to "wink" at Saul's sin or declare it? As Christians we do not ADD to the Bible or change a word in the Bible to suit our purpose. Saul did that. And you are welcome to acknowledge it.
 
If we are Justified in and by the Lord Jesus Christ as His Church is, then are we Israel, since Justification in Him is promised only to Israel Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. 10
 
Now you're making God a co-conspiritor to Saul's sin. God doesn't "wink" at sin. He deals with it. And I'm sure He dealt with Saul's sin. We just don't know about it.

But why not. There was no correction by Saul. People through the generations have been misled according to you.
How is God not somehow involved in not correcting this?

I mean... after all... Saul changed a word to make it appear that we goyim , so long as we toe the line, had it made .

Then look what a travisty must have been made when in Romans 11 Paul again carried the idea forward.
11So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.

DONT YOU DARE START WITH THE MIXED RACE, MIXED BLOOD IDEA.... THAT IS FALSE.

So Paul messed up either on his own seeking glory or by direction.

If he was punished for doing this so be it.... there has been no one to counter it...EXCEPT YOU.

Are you a prophet @jeremiah1five ?





Still, the record is clear: Saul changed a word in Isaiah's prophecy to make it say something the prophecy never meant. Deception. abuse of Scripture. This is serious stuff. Are you going to "wink" at Saul's sin or declare it? As Christians we do not ADD to the Bible or change a word in the Bible to suit our purpose. Saul did that. And you are welcome to acknowledge it.
 
If we are Justified in and by the Lord Jesus Christ as His Church is, then are we Israel, since Justification in Him is promised only to Israel Isa 45:25

25 In the Lord shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. 10
The ONLY people that are Israel IS Israel.
 
But why not. There was no correction by Saul. People through the generations have been misled according to you.
How is God not somehow involved in not correcting this?

I mean... after all... Saul changed a word to make it appear that we goyim , so long as we toe the line, had it made .

Then look what a travisty must have been made when in Romans 11 Paul again carried the idea forward.
11So I ask, did they stumble in order that they might fall? By no means! Rather, through their trespass salvation has come to the Gentiles, so as to make Israel jealous.

DONT YOU DARE START WITH THE MIXED RACE, MIXED BLOOD IDEA.... THAT IS FALSE.

So Paul messed up either on his own seeking glory or by direction.

If he was punished for doing this so be it.... there has been no one to counter it...EXCEPT YOU.

Are you a prophet @jeremiah1five ?
I don't ADD to the Bible as you do. God made covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and Jacob's sons who will in time become the children of Israel. God then made covenant with the children of Israel in the desert at the time of Moses and the Tabernacle, and nowhere in this covenant are Gentiles mentioned or named. Then, through Christ God made covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. That amounts to twelve tribes and there are no Gentiles in this covenant.

Jesus came to fulfill the Law, not ADD Gentiles. But that's what you believe, and you can't answer that. Because if Jesus came to ADD Gentiles, then He is not fulfilling, He is changing and ADDING Gentiles, something that can never happened because not even God can change the Law of Moses or the covenant He makes with the Hebrew people. God's Word is eternal and once His Word has gone out no one can stop it let alone destroy it through additions God never intended.

So, to teach Gentiles are atoned along with Israel is to ADD to the Bible and make Christ out as a destroyer of God's eternal Word (which is His Word to begin with.) Christ didn't come to ADD Gentiles; He came to fulfill what was already written and to substitute Himself for the animal that is sacrificed and whose blood covers the Mercy Seat. Another fact is that God through the prophet Joel Promised Israel His Spirit. There is no Scripture in the Old Testament that says God Promised His Spirit to Gentiles, and one needs the Spirit to be converted from darkness to light, from death to life. Christ DID NOT ADD Gentiles to God's deliverance of Israel. Christ came to fulfill the promises and prophecies made to Israel and only Israel.
 
I don't ADD to the Bible as you do. God made covenant with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and Jacob's sons who will in time become the children of Israel. God then made covenant with the children of Israel in the desert at the time of Moses and the Tabernacle, and nowhere in this covenant are Gentiles mentioned or named. Then, through Christ God made covenant with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. That amounts to twelve tribes and there are no Gentiles in this covenant.

Jesus came to fulfill the Law, not ADD Gentiles. But that's what you believe, and you can't answer that. Because if Jesus came to ADD Gentiles, then He is not fulfilling, He is changing and ADDING Gentiles, something that can never happened because not even God can change the Law of Moses or the covenant He makes with the Hebrew people. God's Word is eternal and once His Word has gone out no one can stop it let alone destroy it through additions God never intended.

So, to teach Gentiles are atoned along with Israel is to ADD to the Bible and make Christ out as a destroyer of God's eternal Word (which is His Word to begin with.) Christ didn't come to ADD Gentiles; He came to fulfill what was already written and to substitute Himself for the animal that is sacrificed and whose blood covers the Mercy Seat. Another fact is that God through the prophet Joel Promised Israel His Spirit. There is no Scripture in the Old Testament that says God Promised His Spirit to Gentiles, and one needs the Spirit to be converted from darkness to light, from death to life. Christ DID NOT ADD Gentiles to God's deliverance of Israel. Christ came to fulfill the promises and prophecies made to Israel and only Israel.
I have never added to the bible. You always take away. I ask you why? You never answer.
 
The ONLY people that are Israel IS Israel.
Yeah the Body of Christ Gal 3:28-29

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed[Israel], and heirs according to the promise.
 
I have never added to the bible. You always take away. I ask you why? You never answer.
Gentiles were NEVER under the Law. God used Moses to deliver the Hebrews of over one million souls from their bondage of slavery and God took them into the desert when He made covenant with the children of Israel. There were no Gentiles in slavery and so only Hebrews were delivered. God gave the Israelites His Law which came in three parts with each part leading and guiding Hebrew life day to day, Socially, Ceremonially, and Morally. God instructed the Hebrew people in worship and this included a foreshadowing of a future sacrifice that would essentially deal with their sins. Every year the Hebrew people sacrificed a lamb to atone - though temporarily for one year - the sins of the Hebrew people.

When Christ did arrive, He came to fulfill the Law in all its precepts and commands. He even substituted Himself for the lamb that was slain that Passover in which He shared with His twelve Jewish disciples of a New Covenant in His body and blood. On the day He died on the cross God accepted His sacrifice for Israel's sins and in a matter of weeks Israel would enter the New Covenant era with the sending of the Comforter, the Holy Spirit of Promise that was promised to Israel. Thus, Jesus died under the Law to atone those under the Law and that means Israel.

Anyone who adds to the Bible and adds Gentiles to Jesus' sacrifice adds to the Bible things not supported by Scripture and that means NO GENTILES were atoned or saved by Jesus' sacrifice. Only Israel who was under the Law was atoned by Jesus Christ. Jesus fulfilled, He did not come to add Gentiles to Israel's inheritance and their salvation. When you claim Gentiles were saved by Jesus you are adding to the Bible things not spoken of in all of Scripture.

THAT'S how you ADD to the Bible.
 
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