No it is not.
And All Israel Shall Be Saved!
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
- Start date
brightfame52
Active Member
It was prophesied that Gentiles would be called by the name Israel, foretelling the inclusion of the them into Elect Israel Isa 44:5
5 One shall say, I am the Lord's; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the Lord, and surname himself by the name of Israel.
This is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Promises to include Gen 12:3
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
This is linked to Isa 44:1-4
Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:
2 Thus saith the Lord that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.
3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:
4 And they shall spring up as among the grass, as willows by the water courses.
Thats why the Spirit came as the blessing of Abraham upon the Gentiles Gal 3:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
So Gentiles can call themselves Israel as Per Isa 44:5
5 One shall say, I am the Lord's; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the Lord, and surname himself by the name of Israel.
This is a Spiritual reality, nothing to do with the natural.9
5 One shall say, I am the Lord's; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the Lord, and surname himself by the name of Israel.
This is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic Promises to include Gen 12:3
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
This is linked to Isa 44:1-4
Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:
2 Thus saith the Lord that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.
3 For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:
4 And they shall spring up as among the grass, as willows by the water courses.
Thats why the Spirit came as the blessing of Abraham upon the Gentiles Gal 3:13-14
13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
So Gentiles can call themselves Israel as Per Isa 44:5
5 One shall say, I am the Lord's; and another shall call himself by the name of Jacob; and another shall subscribe with his hand unto the Lord, and surname himself by the name of Israel.
This is a Spiritual reality, nothing to do with the natural.9
jeremiah1five
Active Member
As you can see and read the focus is Israel and the Deliverer is concerned with Israel (Jacob) and NOT Gentiles. The fulness of the Gentiles is an amount of time is which Gentiles will be predominant in the world and as we consult world history, we see this very thing is true. Since to 700s BC Israel has been scattered across the region and the globe. From that time Israel has been in a secondary position among the nations of the world and had not had their own nation in the land God has promised them since that time. But as current affairs reveal Israel is a world power who is claiming their place in the world as a mover and shaker who is coming into their own. And their own is to become the center of a world government with Christ sitting on His throne in Jerusalem. Keep your eyes on Israel, not Gentiles. The times of the Gentiles is coming to a swift end.
brightfame52
Active Member
Its the church, the Body of Christ, comprised of jew and gentile. You still trusting in the flesh
jeremiah1five
Active Member
That's the error of your wishful thinking.
The body of Christ is Israel. He is THEIR Messiah. Your Gentile wishfulness falls short of the truth of the Word of God.
Messiah was Promised to Israel to be born of Israel and to die for Israel as per the Word of God.
21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.
Matthew 1:21.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
brightfame52
Active Member
Yes, the Body of Christ, When it comes to Salvation race doesnt make a difference in the Body of Christ Gal 3:28-29
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
If you understood the body of Christ, you would not have to ask me. You would know.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Saul was addressing Jews and Jewish Christians. This is evident when Saul identifies the Jews as being under the Law or "schoolmaster" (the Law.) Gentiles were never under the Law and do not fit into this pointed discussion by Saul in this letter.
It sounds quite different in context, doesn't it?
"“But now listen, O Jacob, My servant,
And Israel, whom I have chosen:
2 Thus says the Lord who made you
And formed you from the womb, who will help you,
‘Do not fear, O Jacob My servant;
And you Jeshurun whom I have chosen.
3 ‘For I will pour out water on [a]the thirsty land
And streams on the dry ground;
I will pour out My Spirit on your offspring
And My blessing on your descendants;
4 And they will spring up among the grass
Like poplars by streams of water.’
5 “This one will say, ‘I am the Lord’s’;
And that one [c]will call on the name of Jacob;
And another will write [d]on his hand, ‘Belonging to the Lord,’
And will name Israel’s name with honor."
I see nothing about Gentiles here. Nothing about Gentiles being Israel. I thought you believed in progressive revelation? You keep undermining your position.
This speaks of SALVATION.
If you read it again, it is talking about Israel still, as you see above. It isn't talking about Gentiles.
Through Christ Jesus. Israel did not come through Christ Jesus. The church is the body of Christ, the bride of Christ. Israel is, according to Isaiah and others, the wife of Jehovah.
5 “This one will say, ‘I am the Lord’s’;
And that one [c]will call on the name of Jacob;
And another will write [d]on his hand, ‘Belonging to the Lord,’
And will name Israel’s name with honor."
This one of Jacob will say "I am the Lord", "call on the name of Jacob", write on his hand, "Belonging to the Lord", and call himself of Israel. The offspring of verse 3 are Jews/Israelites, those of Israel. You have to follow the context. They are recognizing who they are. Perhaps the elect of Israel?
No, this is Galatians. Paul was writing to a Gentile church. (Non-Jewish Gentile). The whole argument was that they do not, must not, follow the law. Not the Mosaic law. That law means death. Hence his whole argument in Galatians about faith, and being dead to the law. One can still keep the law, but there is nothing salvific in it. The Mosaic covenant is gone, and has been for a very long time. It was temporary. Yet you have Paul's argument in Galatians, but he had Timothy get circumcised. Why? Obviously Paul was addressing Gentiles and telling them not to do the same, but Timothy is Jewish so Paul had him get circumcised. Why? The ABRAHAMIC COVENANT, which is very much still alive. The ethnic covenant. However Paul told Titus not to get circumcised? Why? Titus was a Gentile. Gentiles do not get circumcised because that would mean they believe/follow the Judaizers who Paul fought at every turn.
Galatians was written to a church made up of both non-Jewish Gentiles, and Jews. (I do not say mixed race Jews because Paul doesn't recognize them as such, but recognizes them as Jews.) The word Paul uses for Gentiles (ethnos) doesn't mean mixed race ANYTHING. It has been used for Jews, but they are not mixed race Jews. However, they are included, because even Paul considers mixed race Jews to be... Jews.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
You're the one appealing to multiple bodies. Not me. You would know.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Saul writes to Jews and Jewish Christians. This is evident in these passages:
23 But before faith came, we [JEWS] were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our [JEWS] schoolmaster to bring us [JEWS] unto Christ, that we [JEWS] might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we [JEWS] are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye [JEWS] are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you [JEWS] as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye [JEWS] are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye [JEWS] be Christ’s, then are ye [still JEWS and] Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:23–29.
Gentiles were NEVER under the Law. Gentiles were NEVER under a "schoolmaster" (the Law.)
And the word "Greek" in verse 28 is "Hellens" which refers to Greek-speaking and raised Jews of the Diaspora. It is NOT the word for Gentiles. Take a look at the words in bold/underline/italics. Saul is definitely writing to Jews and Jews were under the Law since at least Moses in the desert at the time of the Tabernacle.
The context of these words written to Jews by Saul was to alleviate their concern of being followers of a man named Jesus and what that meant to them as followers of Moses and Abraham. Saul tells them that if they (belonged) to [Jesus] Christ they were STILL Abraham's seed and heirs according to the Promise.
The Abrahamic inheritance follows a biological line from Abraham, to Isaac, to Jacob, and to Jacob's twelve sons (or tribes.) The twelve tribes are Israel and they are the biological seed of Abraham and heirs of the Promise. Gentiles do not come from Abraham's loins. They come from Ham and Japheth. They were NEVER biological heirs to Abraham. NEVER.
Your interpretation falls short of the Word of God.
Saul is writing to Jews.
JEWS.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
And what "multiple bodies" are you claiming I hold to?
Prove your claim or recant.
Prove your claim or be a liar.
brightfame52
Active Member
You trusting in the flesh
brightfame52
Active Member
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Just as Jesus did.
"O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. 7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. 8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. 9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. 11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. 12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith."
Two things to note. When Paul speaks of Spirit in verse 3, he speaks of faith. When he speaks of the Flesh, he speaks of the Law. So again, what you say about the Law and covenants means nothing. Paul comes right out and condemns the Gentiles here for coming to Christ in faith, but listening to the Judaizers believing they are perfected by the Flesh/Law. Also for hellens, consider it like Romans. He speaks to the cultured, next to the uncultured. It includes non-Jewish Gentiles who are a law unto themselves, who have come to Christ by faith. Paul isn't saying, there is neither Jew nor Jew, is he? Again, do note that Paul had Timothy get circumcised. Why? He was part Jew. However, Paul did not have Titus get circumcised. Why not? Titus was not Jewish, just Gentile. Would you say that Titus was not saved? Did Paul really consider a non-Jewish Gentile to be his friend, and coworker in Christ. (Quick answer... YES. I mean, Paul even wrote a book to him.)
In the verses above there is that word ethnos [Gentiles] which never means mixed race Jews, because mixed race Jews are not a race. It speaks of non-Jewish Gentiles. One can also know because it says that the blessing of Abraham (in thee all nations shall be blessed) might come on the Gentiles THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. Something important to note is that the blessings of Abraham belongs to the Jews who have faith, because they are descendants of Abraham. For the Gentile, it says the blessings come upon them through Jesus Christ, not by being descendants of Abraham. The only thing that Gentiles have in common with Abraham is faith, and it is by that faith that the blessings come upon them through Jesus Christ. I still don't get how you are so blind to this. The Abrahamic covenant is separate from the promises from which the Gentiles have blessings come upon them through Jesus Christ. How? The Abrahamic covenant has a sing, circumcision. The promise only has faith as the base. Paul had Timothy, a mixed race Jew get circumcised. Why? A mixed race Jew that had chosen his Jewish heritage. Paul had Titus NOT get circumcised. Why not? Titus was Gentile and thus not a part of the Abrahamic covenant. This speaks to the unconditional nature of the Abrahamic covenant.
Also, your ignorance truly shows through your statement that Gentiles are not biological heirs to Abraham. That is you believing that salvation is through the flesh. Biological = flesh. The Law = the flesh. Faith = the Spirit. Non-Jewish Gentiles who believe in Jesus Christ by faith are SPIRITUAL descendants of Abrahams, and have thus had the blessings of the promises God made to Abraham come upon them through Jesus Christ. Not by being biological heirs to Abraham, which would make them a part of the Abrahamic covenant, but by being spiritual heirs of Abraham by faith, which puts them under the promises God made to Abraham. NOT THE COVENANT. The promise that says that all nations would be blessed through the seed of Abraham (Jesus Christ.) Again, I don't know why you seem incapable of seeing that which is hidden from natural man, as it is spiritually discerned.
Ah, so you don't understand a context that natural man just can't seem to understand. (Open your spiritual eyes and understand. God has not rejected Israel, but has been dealing with Israel as God specifically told Daniel. He strictly defined a prophecy that has not yet ended by saying it deals SPECIFICALLY with the Jews, and SPECIFICALLY with Jerusalem. The Abrahamic covenant, Davidic covenant and the covenant to the Levites are unconditional. They continue. God specifically said so himself. If you want them to be gone, then you have to make God violate his covenants of day and night that they not occur in their season. Can you do it?
There are two peoples, Jews and Gentiles. There are three groups, technically four. The nation of Israel, which is not Israel, the elect believers of Israel, who are Israel, the believers in Christ in the chruch who are the church, and those who do not believe in Christ in the church who are not the church. The better term being Christendom, which covers all who claim Christ, while only those who actually believe in Christ by faith to salvation being the true church. Christendom includes Catholics, Jehovah Witnesses, Mormons, etc. A generalized term.
As for Israel, Paul speaks to those who are of Israel, who truly are of Israel, speaking to faith. He is not speaking to those who are of Israel who are not of Israel. That is, those who are only circumcised in the flesh. I use Nation of Israel to speak of both groups, and elect of Israel to speak of those who are believers in Christ the Messiah, and those who will be believers in Christ the Messiah. Something important to note is that Jesus is NOT the Messiah of the Gentiles. Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. Messiah does NOT mean Savior, it means annointed one/king. God put the icing on the cake by having Pilate nail a sign that said "King of the Jews" on Jesus' cross. Another thing to note is that when Jesus asked the Father to forgive them, for they know not what they do, He was praying for the Roman Soldiers, because they had no idea what they were doing. All they knew they were doing is what they were paid to do. Play guard over those being crucified. They didn't know the who or why, they just knew that Rome sentenced them to death by crucifixion. To them, Jesus was just a common criminal like the two thieves. They had no role in the conspiracy of the Jewish religious leaders to kill Jesus. They were just doing their job. It also helps as it was mentioned as the Soldiers were dividing up His personal belongings and casting lots for His clothing. That is a privilege given to the Soldiers in general, and not specifically. They were doing it just because that was something they always did.
While there are two groups, they are one in the church. However, there will be an unbelieving remnant in Israel until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in. They are not part of the church, and don't become a part of the church because the church is not around when they come face to face with Jesus, and He rescues/saves them. (See Zechariah) Then we have the Messianic Kingdom, as prophecied in Daniel 2, and other prophecies in the Old Testament, which ends with the final defeat of death. (See I Corinthians 15) After this the heavens and earth are destroyed (tainted by sin) and they pass away, and we have a new heavens and a new earth, upon which all men are one. No longer any division by race/ethnicity. Revelation doesn't say that God dwells amongst the Jews and that Jews are His people, but that all men are His people, and He dwells among all men.
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brightfame52
Active Member
Yes I do, you dont understand spiritual truth
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