And All Israel Shall Be Saved!
- Thread starter jeremiah1five
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brightfame52
Active Member
Yeah, thats the Church, the Body of Christ.
Yep. He neglects Romans 2:28-29 etc. Thinks Caiaphas will be saved and that God is a respecter of persons. But Romans 2:11 " For there is no respect of persons with God."
He is a edited .He knows he's wrong.
brightfame52
Active Member
Well Caiaphas might be saved, but if so its because of grace and not race. But yeah that poster believes God saves according to ethnicity, thats what the reprobate jews thought, Jesus said to them this Jn 8:37-44
37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38 speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43 ;Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Jesus denied these ethnic jews born of Abrahams seed physically Vs 37 He denied them any relationship with the True God Vs 42 and any True Spiritual relationship with Abraham Vs 39
And denounced them as children of the devil and enslaved to do his lusts.
This is NOT the mystery of Israel. This is the mystery of the CHURCH. It shouldn't be so difficult a concept. Did Paul say that this mystery was revealed in the Old Testament? No. He said it was not. What do we have in the Old Testament? Israel. So if the mystery is not at all revealed in the Old Testament, but Israel is revealed in the Old Testament, how can it be the mystery Israel? It isn't. Jesus said that He WILL (future tense) build His church on a foundation of faith. Israel is used as an illustration of the flesh, of the law. The church is built on faith in Christ. (In case you are just going to say, well, Jesus is the foundation. He is. The church is built on faith in Him.
Again, God is speaking of the church, not Israel. The CHURCH is made up of elect believers of the Jews and the Gentiles. However, the Jews do not cease to be ethnic Jews, part of the Abrahamic covenant which is made up of PHYSICAL blessings. Circumcision is but an ethnic sign which shows one to be a physical descendant of Abraham, with all the benefits of that. The church is made up of those who are both physical and SPIRITUAL descendants of Abraham (elect beliving Jews), and those who are ONLY spiritual descendants of Abraham (elect believing Gentiles.) However, there will remain, until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in, an elect remnant within Israel that has not yet believed. That is the partial blindness that is upon Israel.
Don't add to scripture. All Israel being saved is a one time event that will occur when the elect of Israel who do not yet believe, turn to God and call out to Him to save them with one voice, and He does. This is the promise that God has for Israel at the end of the curses in the Old Testament. However, again, it is only fulfilled for the elect remnant within Israel. It is not fulfilled for ALL Israel. This is why Paul mentions it after he defined what Israel is. Not all who are of Israel are of Israel. A Jew is not of Israel by physical circumcision, but by circumcision of the heart by the Holy Spirit. So Paul is speaking of the elect remnant of God in Israel, not the Gentiles. Gentiles do not have physical circumcision, only spiritual. The Jews Paul speaks of have BOTH physical and spiritual circumcision.
"8 By faith Abraham, when he was called, obeyed by going out to a place which he was to receive for an inheritance; and he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he lived as an alien in the land of promise, as in a foreign land, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, fellow heirs of the same promise; 10 for he was looking for the city which has foundations, whose architect and builder is God. "
For some reason, I just don't see it. Did you just add to scripture again?
Do note that the elect remnant of Israel do not have to come from the east and west. They will already be sitting down with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob. Note how in the Old Testament it speaks of the Gentiles coming to the Jews. The Gentiles asking the Jews about God. Yes, Gentiles are saved. NO, the Gentiles do not partake in the Abrahamic covenant. No, the church is not Israel, the church is the church. The Old Testament more than once says that Israel is the wife of Jehovah. The church is the body and bride of Yeshua. The antisemitism that flourished in the early church (mostly Catholic, but others as well), has done much damage to an understanding of the place of Israel (remnant elect believers thereof), and the church, more specifically Gentiles. Gentiles have no covenant with God as the Jews do. And that covenant is the Abrahamic covenant. All it says is that Abraham would be the father of a great nation, and that physical circumcision was an ethnic sign of belonging to this covenant. The land promises were a part of the covenant. The blessing of salvation... WAS NOT. That came through promises God made to Abraham apart from the covenant. The only part the covenant played in the promises is that Jesus is Jewish, and thus a part of the Abrahamic covenant. And that is seen in the promise where in Abraham's seed the many families/nations of the Earth would be blessed.
Let's try this again. Please, stop blaspheming God by saying He missed the mark. That makes God a sinner Himself. I'm not sure why you require this for your beliefs. Adam and Eve were not created sinful, because God looked over all His creation and said it was good. That means, none of it missed the standard God set. That would change once Adam and Eve did something God absolutely cannot do. They sinned. Why you believe the ability to sin is some required deific attribute that God has to have, since you say if Adam and Eve were created sinless, that is, not having sinned, that they are an exact duplicate of God, and then sinned, which would mean that God could sin at any moment, I just don't understand.
You have created some crazy false teaching, perhaps a heresy. Adam and Eve were created sinless. God saw it and it was good. This sinlessness was not a deific attribute. God did not create Adam and Eve as the standard, in which case it would be impossible for them to sin, and they would be a duplicate of God. He created them with a clean slate as far as sin is concerned. Not one sin... until one day, sin was found in them when they ate of the fruit. They were no longer sinless. If what you say is true, then Yeshua had no purpose coming to Earth. His purpose is to reconcile with man. However, your belief does not allow for reconciliation, because there is no point in your belief where Adam and Eve are sinless. So why would Jesus die so that man can be considered sinless before God through Yeshua. It is impossible, unless your belief is completely wrong and a false teaching.
What did Paul say of Abraham? When did Abraham find salvation with God? Before he was circumcised? Yep. Before God made promises and covenants? Yep. Why? Paul says it is so that Gentiles who are not circumcised, who are not part of any covenant, can be saved by faith. I'm not sure how you keep missing Paul's plain teaching. Oh yeah. That's right. You completely mistranslate the passages and have come up with your own false teaching/heresy.
The church is NOT Israel.
Is God into adultery now? Israel is the WIFE of Jehovah, according to the Old Testament. The church is the bride of Christ His Son. Do the math. There is a distinction between Israel, or to better put it, the "true Israel of God", that is elect Jewish believers in Israel, and the Gentiles/church who were those who would listen, but Paul specifically did NOT include them in the "true Israel of God". Specifically the Gentiles are not included in the "true Israel of God".
More mistranslation. The word used specifically means assembly, not church. The King James got it very wrong. Then again, it is more the fault of the Septuagint. The Catholic Church, that great mass of antisemitism, wanted to force out the Jews, so the church must be Israel, and the Gentiles (non-jewish) must take over the covenant. Hence baptism of infants to replace circumcision. The Jews no longer have a part in the covenants, it belongs to the church. Hence the necessity of speaking archetypes. Baptism is NOT an archetype of circumcision. There are two circumcisions. The circumcision of the flesh, done by parents to children who do not get to decide, and the circumcision of the heart, accomplished by the Holy Spirit at salvation. Baptism is something one decides for themselves. John the Baptist did not baptize infants. He laid out the choice before his audience. Repent and be baptized.
Could you give a passage that says only the seed of Abraham are promised faith. I mean, you're not going to find one, but I want to see you try. Give an explicit passage that states that faith is only for Jewish people, and not for mixed race Jews or non-Jewish Gentiles.
So why are you using 21st century definitions? Well, I should say 17th century definitions. You just said that in the Old Testament, Israel is the church. However, that is due to the contamination of scripture by the Catholics/Anglicans in the King James. Granted, again, due to the Septuagint and words they chose. In Hebrew, it is much more clear.
And then Peter came to the non-Jewish Gentiles with Cornelius, and God Himself added the non-Jewish Gentiles to the church. He did not add them to Israel. Again, why would Paul say that it was something that had not been revealed in the Old Testament, and the best you can do is pull passages from the Old Testament? Paul just said that what the church had become is not present anywhere in the Old Testament. God revealed to Paul that He would include the non-Jewish Gentiles in the church. The thing you are missing is progressive revelation. What you said before says you do not believe in progressive revelation. However, Paul/Saul believed in progressive revelation, and says so in Romans.
brightfame52
Active Member
Um same thing
jeremiah1five
Active Member
The Church and body of Christ is Israel. Bride is included.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
God didn't "miss the mark." I never said that. Man was created in the only way they can be created. Sinful with a sin nature.
The Church is Israel. The OT identifies them as a "great congregation." And "Church" also applies to Israel in the exact definition of the word for they were "called out" ("ekklesia") of Egypt.
The bible identifies Israel as a she. Gentiles are also identified as a she. If Christ loves His Bride Israel, then He cannot also love Gentiles as a Bride for that would be adultery.
brightfame52
Active Member
Yeah, but it has nothing to do with ethnicity, thats not included, its strictly sovereign grace
jeremiah1five
Active Member
Sovereign grace that is given to Abraham and his biological seed. That was the issue behind Abraham's desire for a biological heir from his own loins, not from a servant that has no relation to Abraham.
2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. (BIOLOGY)
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. Genesis 15:2–5. (Biology)
The Scripture teaches us that it was all about having an heir that is born from Abraham's loins. If you can't see this then you're not being honest with Scripture.
It's all about biology. Abraham's biology. Thus, the Abraham Covenant is about having a biological seed to inherit promises made by God that were unfulfilled. That is, until Abraham had a son. And then we follow the inheritance that follows Abraham's biological seed.
7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee. Genesis 17:7.
God + Abraham + Abraham's seed = Abrahamic Covenant.
It's biological.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
So Adam was created sinful with a sin nature for what purpose?
Then the LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him
In Genesis 2:18, we read of the one thing that was not declared “good” in all of God’s creation: “Then the LORD God said, ‘It is not good that the man should be alone.’” The same verse includes God’s solution: “I will make him a helper fit for him.” Eve was the solution to Adam’s deficiency.
And lest it escaped you until the woman was created we hear of no sin in Adam.
Enter Eve and look what happened....
So... did God deliberately make Adam with that sin nature? If so, why?
Did God bring Eve to Adam knowing that trouble would be coming with a woman involved?
brightfame52
Active Member
You trusting in the flesh, Its given to people of all biological descent
jeremiah1five
Active Member
The only conclusion one can reach towards understanding the creative 'make-up' of the first man and woman when Isaiah is consulted is the application and understanding of what Isaiah said about the Almighty. He said, "there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE."
The present and ongoing theology of man is that he was created sinless, righteous, innocent, and/or holy. These are all 'glories' of God. They are His Nature, His Character, His Attributes, and His Person. And IF God created the first man "sinless" or "righteous," or "innocent," or "holy" or any other designation towards his make-up, then these 'things' violate the truth Isaiah spoke (and wrote) of God as God. ONLY GOD is Sinless, and Righteous, and Holy - and yes, innocent of sin or sinfulness. ONLY GOD.
The only way to accept man and woman were created sinless is that God copied, reduplicated, gave, shared, His Sinlessness in man and this is impossible. Were the man and the woman God created actually created holy? Then this means God copied, reduplicated, gave, shared, His Holiness with created matter, man from the dust (something created from something else) of the ground. Even man in his restoration as a saved individual does not possess holiness for that holiness that Scripture says of a born-again man is not his own holiness by the Holiness of Christ who dwells within the believer. Our union with Christ is what covers our flesh like the anointing of Esther who soaked in fragrances of herbs and perfumes for six months before she could stand in the king's presence. It is the anointing of the Spirit that covers our flesh and we are holy because He is Holy, we love Him because He first loved us. Being born-again and united to Christ in many ways means we have an Intercessor, a Mediator, and Advocate, without which we could not stand alone in the Presence of God. WE MUST have a go-between who represents us to God and who represents God to us. Our relationship with Creator God is forever through the Mediating Ministry of the Holy Spirit. The statement in Scripture that says "no flesh shall glory in His Presence is not temporal or temporary, it is forever. Man (and woman) are by-products of creation. We are not created out of nothing. God created man from the dust of the ground and the woman from man's rib. By-products. We are incidental or secondary product made in the manufacture or synthesis of something else. The only "thing" or person who can stand in the glorious Presence of God the Father is God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Neither of these Persons need a mediator or go-between to be freely in God's Presence. But man and woman do. This Mediator is God the Holy Spirit in whom we are hid in Christ for our eyes or even our person cannot stand in the Presence of God without a Mediator. That Mediator is Christ. Even in a future glorious new body we could not stand before God on our own for our created flesh - no matter we be changed in the twinkling of an eye we forever require a Mediator and Advocate for to stand before God in all His glory as a saved individual would surely kill us.
And to answer your question "to what end" is to logically follow the Plan of God for man and that is to take a contemplation in the Mind of God and to bring it into existence. Since there is no sin in God and since there is no death in God when God contemplated creating man, man was contemplated as sinless, and righteous, and holy in the Mind of God and this was well and good. But to bring this contemplation into existence required creating a universe out of nothing whose end is to be the realm in which God's plan can 'materialize.' In order for man to actually have a body that can be covered by the Third Person required the death of the Second Person so that the First Person can have an actual people that are created (through the born-again experience) with a body and a conscience that is free of sin and sinfulness which condition in man was addressed by the imputation of one nature upon another so that the First Person can have man in close relation with Himself. But only through mediation and advocacy can this be done. God cannot reduplicate Himself in created matter. Heaven is not a place, 'it' is a Person. Heaven is God Himself. In our spiritual rebirth we are forever joined to the Second Person through Mediation of the Third Person to the benefit and purpose of the First Person.
The word "good" in the narrative does not mean morally good but simply "good enough" or "to [God's] specification." The word merely means "suitable" or "to specification." It has no bearing on morality for there is another word that means "good" morally, but it is not here in the creative narration. Adam wasn't deficient. The rib God used was part of his body, proficient in all ways, not deficient. Nor was Adam deficient after one of his ribs was taken from him to create a woman. He performed as a man the same with or without a rib. He didn't even know it was taken from him for he was asleep when God took that rib and made He a woman for the man. And when Adam awakened God told him what he'd done in taking a rib from his body to make a woman, a suitable helper for the man. God even told him for what purpose He did the thing. For Adam states that purpose when he said:
23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Genesis 2:23–24.
Does this make Adam a prophet? He clearly states what God told him He did. How would Adam know about motherhood and fatherhood and marital faithfulness? It was only he and the woman.
The existence of Law or Command against a thing proves the man a sinner even before he performed the act of sin for sin comes from sinfulness. It doesn't come from holiness. By saying "Thou shalt not" means that Adam and the woman were sinners BEFORE they disobeyed God. It wasn't until Agur, the son of Jakeh, who said:
6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:6.
but had this been spoken or written aforetime in the Garden before God gave command to "not eat from the tree" their adding to God's Word "neither shall ye touch it" is clearly a sin against God who is Truth. The Doctrine of Imputation is without question a "nature-swap" not an "acts-swap." Saul brings this to light in the words he wrote to Jewish Christians at Corinth, a Gentile city:
21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Corinthians 5:21.
It doesn't say: "For he hath made him [to be] ACTS OF sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness ACTS of God in him."
If Christ took our sinful ACTS and we take His righteous ACTS then the sin nature from which sinful acts originate remains unaddressed and unaffected and remains within man. Will man enter glory still possessing a sinful nature if only the sinful acts have been imputed to Christ and we are imputed His righteous ACTS? The bottom line is that man sins because he is a sinner; he is not a sinner because he sins.
Rather, God created man knowing that man was NOT in any way a reduplication of the One True God and that in creating man from the dust of the ground man would be sinful ("missing the mark") of the glory of God. That's the only way God can create a moral being. The sinlessness would come later through the advocacy of the Second Person of the Trinity with assistance of the Third Person. It was the Father's Plan, the Son implemented that Plan, and the Holy Spirit of Promise APPLIES that Plan to the Chosen, Elect of God. All three Persons of the Trinity are directly involved in the redemption of man. God deemed man, the Son RE-deems the man, and the Holy Spirit is that Spirit in whom the redeeming is actualized.
No. What do you have against progressive revelation? Your belief is dead set against it...
You won't stop saying it. Perhaps you don't understand what you are saying?
1. Sin means to miss the mark/standard.
2. In order to miss the mark/standard, one must perform an action. (I mean, pre-school 101). Action is required.
3. If no actions have been performed by a person, they have not sinned.
4. If something was created with sin, then that sin comes from whoever/whatever created that something, for again, there is no sin without a corresponding action. Since only the something that created is performing an action, if sin is the result, then, by definition, that something sinned.
So, going back to pre-school 101, since man performed no actions, then there is no sin. However, you say there is sin, which requires action, and the only acting agent here is... God. So you are saying that God missed the mark. Adam didn't miss the mark, because he didn't do ANYTHING, to include missing/hitting the mark. Adam's scorecard says ZERO, not one or negative one. Adam was created without sin. Adam had no sin nature. However, Adam was created with the capability of sinning, something God does not have by definition. Since sin requires a standard to miss, and God is the standard, God is incapable of missing the standard. He IS the standard.
Paul tells us that by one man sin entered the world, so even Paul is saying that it was an action. Prior to this action, there was no sin in the world. God didn't create a defective world, or defective humans, as you believe. If Adam was created defective, that reflects on God as the one who, in the process of creating, ended up failing and making something defective. Since sin means to miss the mark, if man was created sinful, that means there is a standard for man, and God missed it. An impossibility.
Again, Christ is the archtype of Adam. Adam was created sinless. Jesus was born sinless. Adam sinned and plunged all humanity into sin. Jesus is God, cannot sin, did not sin, and by His death, brought salvation to the world. Again, not an archtype of Abraham, but the archetype of ADAM. So, as by the action of one man, sin entered the world and by that sin death, by the action of one man, who did not/could not sin, but died, so life entered the world.
In his death, everyone was technically involved. The Jews who rejected Him and turned Him over to the non-Jewish Gentiles, as they had no right to execute anyone. The non-Jewish Gentiles, the Roman Soldiers who carried out the execution. Of only one group did Jesus ask the Father to forgive for they did not know what they were doing, and it wasn't the Jews. Jesus prayed for the non-Jewish Gentiles, because they literally had no idea what they were doing. All they know is that Rome (Pilate) had sentenced the man to death (along with two others), and their job was to carry out the sentence. Jesus prayed this in response to the actions of the Soldiers, who were casting lots for His clothing. It was their right to take the possessions of the one's they executed. There was no other reason, I mean besides prophecy, that they did what they did. They saw Jesus as the same as any other criminal. Only the Jews knew who He was, and they rejected Him.
So, you like to say I should not go with modern translations, yet here you are going with a modern translation. Nice. I see how it works. The definition of church is not called out in English. The church is the body of Christ. Also, instead of using Ekklesia, which is a modern translation, why not use the original Hebrew? Is it because it does not mean church, where a different Hebrew word means church? It's like love. If you were to give several sentences using the word love based on the various forms of love, the Greek person would hear several different words for love. In the same way, while the word in Hebrew means assembly/congregation, and a different word means church, that one word in Greek can mean any of those words, depending on context. (At least you are consistent in how you completely ignore context, and come up with your own interpretations.
The Old Testament specificaly identifies Israel was the wife of Jehovah. Yet you want to say that Israel is ALSO the bride of Christ. Now, what would that be? The bride of Christ is the church, the wife of Jehovah is Israel. It's funny how a Messianic Jew can understand that, but you, who only hopes there is a smidgen of Jewish genetics in you, doesn't seem to get that.
Jeremiah 3
"14 “Return, faithless people,” declares the Lord, “for I am your husband. I will choose you—one from a town and two from a clan—and bring you to Zion."
Ezekiel 16
"8 “‘Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you and covered your naked body. I gave you my solemn oath and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Sovereign Lord, and you became mine."
[Marriage... the covenant being a symbol of marriage.]
"32 “‘You adulterous wife! You prefer strangers to your own husband! 33 All prostitutes receive gifts, but you give gifts to all your lovers, bribing them to come to you from everywhere for your illicit favors. 34 So in your prostitution you are the opposite of others; no one runs after you for your favors. You are the very opposite, for you give payment and none is given to you."
Jeremiah 3
"“If a man divorces his wife
and she leaves him and marries another man,
should he return to her again?
Would not the land be completely defiled?
But you have lived as a prostitute with many lovers—
would you now return to me?”
declares the Lord."
"8 I gave faithless Israel her certificate of divorce and sent her away because of all her adulteries. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear; she also went out and committed adultery. 9 Because Israel’s immorality mattered so little to her, she defiled the land and committed adultery with stone and wood. 10 In spite of all this, her unfaithful sister Judah did not return to me with all her heart, but only in pretense,” declares the Lord."
Again, Israel is the wife of Jehovah. An adulteress/prostitute, but His wife. Divorced, but that means she cannot be the bride of another. Perhaps Israel speaks of those who will not enter the Kingdom, so the bride of Christ is the church, made up of both believing Jews and believing non-Jewish Gentiles. Since it is not the same as Israel, there is nothing to see here.
brightfame52
Active Member
Nothing
jeremiah1five
Active Member
The good news is that Israel is in the palm of God and Christ.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand. John 10:27–29.
Eternal security.
The good news is that God keeps His Promises.
jeremiah1five
Active Member
One doesn't need to perform a sinful act to be a sinner.
God is absolved in creating a sinful man. Man was not created holy or sinless for these are the Deific Attributes of God and as Isaiah said in his prophecies, "There is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE." Thus, man was created "missing the mark" (sinful) because Sinlessness is the Nature of God and it is His glory and He does not give His glory to NO ONE. Man was not holy because Holiness is the Nature of God and He gives His Holiness to NO ONE. God did not copy, reduplicate, share, or give His Holiness to man when he was created because Holiness is an Attribute of God. There is NONE like Him, so man did not possess holiness in his creation for only God is Holy and He says this of Himself many times in Scripture. There is NONE like Him. This means that man was not created possessing any Deific Attributes of God. When we look at the text in Genesis man sinned against God and revealed himself a sinner. man sinned because he was created a sinner. Sin comes from sinner. Sin does not come from righteousness or Holiness, or sinlessness. Sin comes from sinner. And man was created a sinner who possess NONE of God's glory such as Holiness or righteousness, or sinlessness.
God commanded the man "thou shalt not!" The existence of "Thou shalt not" is proof that man was a sinner before any act was made by man.
Read carefully.
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Romans 7:7–11.
Let's apply this to the first man God created.
Adam: "What shall say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known disobedience, except the law had said, Thou shalt not eat of it."
This is not hard to understand. By commanding the man to NOT eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil God is showing us that the first man was a sinner. Even before any sinful act he would have committed the existence of "Thou shalt not!" in the Garden is evidence of man's sinfulness.
12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. Romans 7:12–13.
There is no difference between the Law of God and the Commands of God. The commands of God are law, and the Law of God are His commands.
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam’s transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. Romans 5:12–14.
Saul does not say Adam performed a sinful act. "By one man sin entered into the world." Even Saul understands that God created man sinful ("missing the mark.") Do you see verse 13? "but sin is not imputed when there is no law." But we know that the command of God to the man to not eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil proves that man was sinful BEFORE
Was Satan also under the Law? He was created perfect and he sinned. so you dont have to be created imperfect to sin.
Ezekiel 28:15
God creates man so he has a penchant for sin? Tells him he's gonna die after he does.
God raises up after a while a group of folk called Israel. No matter what they do, they are heaven bound. Everyone else isn't.
God has man write a bunch of bogus verses Romans 2:28-29, etc. He even has apostles go to the Gentiles but it will ultimately do them no good. The verses are just a sick joke to make the Gentiles think they have a shot at salvation.
NOPE.
Don't kid yourself. You need to make sure your heart is right with God, and your sins are forgiven. The only blood tie you need is that of Christ's saving you.
Ezekiel 28:15
So is this whatcha got?
God creates man so he has a penchant for sin? Tells him he's gonna die after he does.
God raises up after a while a group of folk called Israel. No matter what they do, they are heaven bound. Everyone else isn't.
God has man write a bunch of bogus verses Romans 2:28-29, etc. He even has apostles go to the Gentiles but it will ultimately do them no good. The verses are just a sick joke to make the Gentiles think they have a shot at salvation.
NOPE.
Don't kid yourself. You need to make sure your heart is right with God, and your sins are forgiven. The only blood tie you need is that of Christ's saving you.
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