And All Israel Shall Be Saved!

[jeremiah1five]

And then there is:

Isaiah 2
Now it will come about that
In the last days
The mountain of the house of the Lord
Will be established [a]as the chief of the mountains,
And will be raised above the hills;
And all the nations will stream to it.
3 And many peoples will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the Lord,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
That He may teach us concerning His ways
And that we may walk in His paths.”
For the [c]law will go forth from Zion
And the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4 And He will judge between the nations,
And will [d]render decisions for many peoples;
And they will hammer their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not lift up sword against nation,
And never again will they learn war.

Jeremiah 16:
O Lord, my strength and my stronghold,
And my refuge in the day of distress,
To You the nations will come
From the ends of the earth and say,
“Our fathers have inherited nothing but falsehood,
Futility and [c]things of no profit.”
20 Can man make gods for himself?
Yet they are not gods!

21 “Therefore behold, I am going to make them know—
This time I will make them know
My [d]power and My might;
And they shall know that My name is the Lord.”

Zechariah 2
10 Sing for joy and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for behold I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” declares the Lord. 11 “Many nations will join themselves to the Lord in that day and will become My people. Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent Me to you.

Psalm 22
All the ends of the earth will remember and turn to the Lord,
And all the families of the nations will worship before You.
28 For the kingdom is the Lord’s
And He rules over the nations.
29 All the [v]prosperous of the earth will eat and worship,
All those who go down to the dust will bow before Him,
Even he who [w]cannot keep his soul alive.

Gentiles are mentioned in the Old Testament, so obviously not your mixed race Jews, and are shown to be partaking in the Kingdom. I can't find all the passages at the moment, but they are very clear.

God's prophets were chosen by God, and they are from the twelve tribes of Israel. They are sent to Israel with a message for Israel. They speak for God and speak for men. They are Hebrew and they are sent to the Hebrew people. Jeremiah, Isaiah, Joel, all prophets from God to the children of Israel with a message specific to Israel.
You really can't take that which is Jewish and make it apply to Gentiles. That's called replacement theology and it is unbiblical.

 

[armylngst]

Yes as it pertains to you believe that God saves jews based upon ethnicity. Who are Jesus people promised to be saved here Matt 1:21

I have not said that once. Those that are saved are BOTH physical descendants of Abraham, hence Jews, AND spiritual descendants of Abraham which means believers in Christ by faith.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.

And you are against the Truth that Spiritual Israel the remnant is the Church. So keep it in perspective as to why I said that

They aren't a part of the church, since they are in the nation of Israel. Those who come to faith before Christ's second coming ARE a part of the church, as they are saved. The remnant that has yet to be saved, will be saved either before Christ returns, or they will be saved AT His return. (Zechariah). Jesus will come to Israel after defeating the antichrist, and they will see Him, and they will believe. And they will mourn. And as Paul said, it will be like life from the dead. All those who remain at Jesus coming, are what is left of the remnant. (The others were already saved prior.)

It is both the physical and spiritual (as Paul said) of Israel who are saved. We know them as the remnant. They are not in the church UNLESS they are believers.

 

[armylngst]

Joel is prophet of God. God's message is to Israel. God identifies who the "all flesh" is when He follows up by saying "YOUR" sons and "YOUR" daughters shall prophesy, meaning Israel's sons and Israel's daughters shall prophesy. It is bad grammar to take something in context to the subject and make it apply objectively what originally applies subjectively. That's called replacement theology and that is what you teach. You take everything that is Jewish, Hebrew, and Israel, and make it into Gentile. Your interpretation of Joel's prophecy is an example. Here is what Peter says about WHO Joel made promise to:

7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans? Acts 2:7.

14 But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Acts 2:14–36.

Peter messed up again. God had not revealed that the non-Hebrew Gentiles would be a part of the church yet. Again, the drama above is what stands between God and Israel. The Gentiles don't have a part in what went on in the Old Testament. The non-Jewish Gentiles that did, I'm pretty sure, proselytized. I'm not sure what it took, but I believe all Ruth had to do was make her statement to Naomi, and she was in. (Wherever you go I will go, your people will be my people, and your God, my God.) Didn't make her any less of a non-Jewish Gentile, however, she chose to follow Naomi and thus, I believe, proselytized. And she is one of Jesus' ancestors. A non-Jewish Gentile proselyte.

Peter is addressing all twelve tribes or sons of Jacob/Israel in verse 14 when he says, "Ye men of Judah" referring to the two southern kingdom tribes that made up the kingdom of Judah; and when Peter says, "Ye men of Israel" is Peter identifying the ten northern kingdom tribes that make up the northern kingdom of Israel. Thus, the context of Joel's prophecy of God giving His Spirit to Israel and Judah refers to only Israel and Judah for only Israel is in Jerusalem and witness to the Spirit's manifestation upon the Jewish men who were in the upper room is made clear by the Scripture saying these men who were speaking in tongues were "Galileans."

I believe he speaks to Judah because Israel was kind of exiled and no longer existed as Israel. Judah was what was left after that. However, God will gather Israel up again FOR JUDGMENT. Then they will be gathered for savlation/redemption/reconciliation. But not until God is finished judging them. Jews are not special because they are Jewish. They are special in that regards for Abraham and the forefathers. That's it. Salvation does not lie in that, as Paul said quite a few times. Salvation is by faith in Christ. And, if one has faith in Christ, they enter into the covenant through the mediator/intercessor Jesus Christ. Gentiles included.

However, again, the covenants that were for Israel (not include the Mosaic which was flawed), belong to Israel and the Jews. The blessings that Abraham received for his FAITH, those spiritual (not physical) blessings belong to both Jew and non-Jewish Gentile, and that blessing is salvation in Christ by faith.

Look again what Luke says:

1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. Acts 2:1.

Pentecost is a Jewish observance. The first people that were filled with the Spirit were Jews and Hebrews. The city is Jerusalem. The nation is Israel. And the people are Jew/Hebrew. On this day three thousand men, women, mixed-race Jews were being filled by the Holy Spirit that was Promised by God to the people of Israel. All these things are taking place among the Jews and Jews are directly involved. There are no non-Hebrews at this Jewish celebration and religious observance. The Holy Spirit "falls" upon Jews. Thus, fulfilling Joel's prophecy that the "all flesh" refers to all HEBREW flesh. Everything Luke says in Acts chapter 2 refers to Israel and to the Jew.
God Promised non-Hebrew Gentiles NOTHING. This is the attitude of God towards "all flesh" of non-Hebrews.

You need to read the Old Testament again. There are prophecies that state what God will do with/for the non-Jewish Gentiles, and this is in regards to the Messianic Kingdom mostly. Paul said that the disciples did not know that the non-Jewish Gentiles would also be saved by faith in Christ. It was not revealed in the Old Testament. However, Paul says it was revealed to Him. So, question. Since David was apparently not a part of the covenant, being a mixed race Jew, how did he ever become king, much less part of the covenant. And what about all the other mixed race Jews, and those Jews, like Moses, who married non-Jewish Gentiles. AND... God didn't have a problem with it. *gasp* You are missing the bigger picture. Two groups, Jews and non-Jewish Gentiles. Jews includes mixed race, though it might be those who chose the Jewish heritage. This can be seen with Timothy and Titus. One was circumcised, the other was not. Why? One was Gentile, and the other was a mixed race Jew.

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

Yep. ALL NATIONS before him. Is Israel a nation before Him? That should mean to you... CONTEXT. You never give context.

This is how God identifies His covenant people Israel:

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Deuteronomy 7:6–9.

Why else do you think that salvation is first for the Jew, then the non-Jewish Gentile? God has priorities.

 

[armylngst]

God's prophets were chosen by God, and they are from the twelve tribes of Israel. They are sent to Israel with a message for Israel. They speak for God and speak for men. They are Hebrew and they are sent to the Hebrew people. Jeremiah, Isaiah, Joel, all prophets from God to the children of Israel with a message specific to Israel.
You really can't take that which is Jewish and make it apply to Gentiles. That's called replacement theology and it is unbiblical.

No, but you can take that which specifically says Gentile and apply it. It generally shows the Jews teaching the Gentiles about God, or Gentiles seeking out the Jews to learn about God. This is what you need to understand. There is a bigger picture. (Much bigger). You believe salvation is in the Law, and in a flawed covenant. Paul said no, salvation is by faith in Christ, and it doesn't matter who you are. That is the ground floor. It doesn't matter if you are Jew or non-Jewish Gentile when you come to Christ. You are justified and saved. However, that does not cancel out all the covenants and prophecies that Jewish believers WILL see fulfilled. (Abrahamic, Davidic, NOT MOSAIC, it was flawed so was replaced.) The Genitle believers see the spiritual blessings of the promises God made because of Abraham's faith. Paul makes a point to point out strongly that Abraham attained righteousness (salvation) by faith BEFORE he was circumcised. BEFORE the covenants. And that is where the Gentiles have standing by faith in Christ, as Abraham had faith in God before the covenants, before he was circumcised.

There is a bigger picture. Hey, I have already said that Israel is special. They have a lot of wondrous (horrendous as well) thing that await them. I said horrendous because the wrath God will dump on Israel will be unlike anything ever seen. 2/3rds of Israel's population will be wiped and (and damned by the way). God will save 1/3rd of the population, and purge them. (Zechariah). After that, it is all blessings and wonders for Israel and the Jews. The Gentiles will benefit, but those physical promises are for Israel. There isn't much to say about how it will present itself, because we can't know. We can recognize if we are here and see the end of time. (Our times, the times prior to the Messianic Kingdom).

Replacement theology says that God has rejected and thrown Israel away, and the church is Israel. Therefore the church will receive all the spiritual and physical blessings of the covenants and promises, while Israel will receive all the curses. THIS IS A HERESY. The church has not replaced Israel. Israel has two parts. The nation of, secular, and damned, and then there is the remnant of Israel, who are believers in Christ and as such, are both physical and spiritual descendants of Abraham. They will receive the physical blessings of the covenants and promises, while both the church and the remnant have the spiritual blessings, which is, namely, salvation by faith in Christ.

There is a distinction between Jews and Gentiles, but not in the church, but that is because there is One Lord, One Savior, One Master, One Spirit, One God who is over all and in all. There is one access to God. However, outside the church, when we are talking Jews and Gentiles, there is a distinction, until the consummation of everything. How that will look is again, just glimpses in Revelation 21.

" 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will [a]dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”"

This speaks of all men. So once the struggle of this world is over, once the Messianic Kingdom is complete and Satan is destroyed, all becomes as God originally inteded from the beginning. (We just see glimpses.) Wording is poetic here. God determined all that would happen that has happened. That is why His word is perfect, and no prophecy fails.

 

[brightfame52]

When you take Hebrew Scripture that was recorded by God's messengers and prophets and change the designation of Israel and replace them with "Gentile" then you are teaching a replacement theology.

Its fulfillment Theology. Your problem is that you trust in the flesh

 

[brightfame52]

I have not said that once.

Doesnt mean it hasnt been reasonably implied

Those that are saved are BOTH physical descendants of Abraham, hence Jews, AND spiritual descendants of Abraham which means believers in Christ by faith.

Yes and thats the Church, the body of Christ, Spiritual Israel, the Spiritual Seed of Both Christ and Araham. The mere physical physical descendants of abraham and the rest of the non elect gentiles are all just the reprobate children of the devil, the devils spiritual seed. Jn 8:44

They aren't a part of the church, since they are in the nation of Israel.

Yes they are, that refers to the Spiritual seed of Faith. Now by you bringing in the nation of israel factor, that indicates you are trusting in the flesh, and that the promise of salvation by Christ is based upon the physical nation. So now you see succinctly why I say you are conditioning the salvation of the "his people" in Matt 1:21 on being of the physical nation of israel by ethnicity. So for here on out thats what I mean when I say you are trusting in the flesh. You have made a difference between Abrahams Spiritual Seed by Faith and Abrahams plain physical seed in Salvation. You imply Abrahams Spiritual seed is a people of faith and are saved, then Abrahams Physical seed are saved by being a ethnic jew of the physical nation of israel.

 

[Rockerduck]

When you take Hebrew Scripture that was recorded by God's messengers and prophets and change the designation of Israel and replace them with "Gentile" then you are teaching a replacement theology.

Case in point:

Joel is a prophet of God who was sent by God to the kingdom of Judah, of which is made up of the two tribes, Judah and Benjamin. The prophecies of Joel are directed to the kingdom of Judah and here is what Joel's message to Judah says:


12 Therefore also now, saith the LORD,
Turn ye even to me with all your heart,
And with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning:
13 And rend your heart, and not your garments,
And turn unto the LORD your God:
For he is gracious and merciful,
Slow to anger, and of great kindness,
And repenteth him of the evil.
Joel 2:12–13.

Joel also says:

27 And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel,
And that I am the LORD your God, and none else:
And my people shall never be ashamed.
28 And it shall come to pass afterward,
That I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh;
And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy,
Your old men shall dream dreams,
Your young men shall see visions:
Joel 2:27–28.

Clearly this is a prophecy by Joel upon Israel as a whole. For after Joel says "I am the Lord YOUR God" this God also says through His prophet to Israel that He will pour out His Spirit upon "all flesh" (referring to Israel) for in the next statement He qualifies who the "All Flesh" is, and they are the children that are Israel/Jacob, for He says "YOUR SONS" and "YOUR DAUGHTERS" shall prophesy. When you go OUT OF CONTEXT and claim that the "all flesh" refers to "all humanity" including non-Hebrew Gentiles with whom God has no covenant or promises to them to save any, then you have gone beyond the context of Joel's prophecy and replace Israel with "Gentiles."

Joel's prophecy as given to Him of God with whom the children of Israel are in covenant with Him declares that the God who dwells in Israel shall give His Spirit to Israel and "none other." It is Israel's sons and Israel's daughters that will prophesy according to what God gives them to speak. And their message is between God and Abraham's seed.

How does God identify Himself and to whom that Identity is confirmed to make "all flesh" refer to non-Hebrew Gentiles when in the next sentence Joel's identifies "YOUR" sons, and "YOUR" daughters shall prophesy? Joel is speaking to Israel. God's message is to Israel. And God Promises His Spirit upon "all (Hebrew) flesh" and that "YOUR" sons and "YOUR daughters" shall prophesy? When you make "all flesh" to refer to non-Hebrew Gentiles then you have replaced Israel with non-Hebrew Gentiles and teach a replacement theology that takes everything Jewish, Hebrew, and Israel, and make it Gentile.

Isaiah 49:6 - And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

 

[brightfame52]

Isaiah 49:6 - And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Thats the gathering of the Church from amongst the remnant jews and remnant Gentiles. Also when it says I will give thee for a light to the gentiles, thats regeneration, its the light of life Jn 8 12

Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

Jn 1 4
In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

So in Isa 49 6 God is promising the Gentiles Eternal Life through Christ as well

 

[jeremiah1five]

Peter messed up again. God had not revealed that the non-Hebrew Gentiles would be a part of the church yet. Again, the drama above is what stands between God and Israel. The Gentiles don't have a part in what went on in the Old Testament. The non-Jewish Gentiles that did, I'm pretty sure, proselytized. I'm not sure what it took, but I believe all Ruth had to do was make her statement to Naomi, and she was in. (Wherever you go I will go, your people will be my people, and your God, my God.) Didn't make her any less of a non-Jewish Gentile, however, she chose to follow Naomi and thus, I believe, proselytized. And she is one of Jesus' ancestors. A non-Jewish Gentile proselyte.

I believe he speaks to Judah because Israel was kind of exiled and no longer existed as Israel. Judah was what was left after that. However, God will gather Israel up again FOR JUDGMENT. Then they will be gathered for savlation/redemption/reconciliation. But not until God is finished judging them. Jews are not special because they are Jewish. They are special in that regards for Abraham and the forefathers. That's it. Salvation does not lie in that, as Paul said quite a few times. Salvation is by faith in Christ. And, if one has faith in Christ, they enter into the covenant through the mediator/intercessor Jesus Christ. Gentiles included.

However, again, the covenants that were for Israel (not include the Mosaic which was flawed), belong to Israel and the Jews. The blessings that Abraham received for his FAITH, those spiritual (not physical) blessings belong to both Jew and non-Jewish Gentile, and that blessing is salvation in Christ by faith.

You need to read the Old Testament again. There are prophecies that state what God will do with/for the non-Jewish Gentiles, and this is in regards to the Messianic Kingdom mostly. Paul said that the disciples did not know that the non-Jewish Gentiles would also be saved by faith in Christ. It was not revealed in the Old Testament. However, Paul says it was revealed to Him. So, question. Since David was apparently not a part of the covenant, being a mixed race Jew, how did he ever become king, much less part of the covenant. And what about all the other mixed race Jews, and those Jews, like Moses, who married non-Jewish Gentiles. AND... God didn't have a problem with it. *gasp* You are missing the bigger picture. Two groups, Jews and non-Jewish Gentiles. Jews includes mixed race, though it might be those who chose the Jewish heritage. This can be seen with Timothy and Titus. One was circumcised, the other was not. Why? One was Gentile, and the other was a mixed race Jew.

Yep. ALL NATIONS before him. Is Israel a nation before Him? That should mean to you... CONTEXT. You never give context.

Why else do you think that salvation is first for the Jew, then the non-Jewish Gentile? God has priorities.

The bottom line is God made Promises to Abraham and extended those Promises to Isaac, Jacob, and later, to Jacob's twelve sons and their families, a people identified in Scripture as the children of Israel/Jacob. The whole of the Bible written first by Moses (the Pentateuch), later by various Hebrew prophets, and the Psalms (written by David, Solomon, and others.)

The Promises God made to Abraham and to his seed in their time continue on down through the centuries to today. The Scripture describe Israel's Messiah, Lord, and King returning to fight alongside the Jews against the Gentile nations that surround her, and He destroys them all with the breath of His mouth. Revelation 20:7-9 helps us to understand that after God finally fulfills His Promise to Abraham and his seed to land whose boundaries are etched out in Genesis 15, the only people alive after fire from heaven consumes the enemies of the Jews, then who is left on the planet and who inherits all the earth is well-known. The meek inherit the earth.
And the strong.

 

[jeremiah1five]

No, but you can take that which specifically says Gentile and apply it. It generally shows the Jews teaching the Gentiles about God, or Gentiles seeking out the Jews to learn about God. This is what you need to understand. There is a bigger picture. (Much bigger). You believe salvation is in the Law, and in a flawed covenant. Paul said no, salvation is by faith in Christ, and it doesn't matter who you are. That is the ground floor. It doesn't matter if you are Jew or non-Jewish Gentile when you come to Christ. You are justified and saved. However, that does not cancel out all the covenants and prophecies that Jewish believers WILL see fulfilled. (Abrahamic, Davidic, NOT MOSAIC, it was flawed so was replaced.) The Genitle believers see the spiritual blessings of the promises God made because of Abraham's faith. Paul makes a point to point out strongly that Abraham attained righteousness (salvation) by faith BEFORE he was circumcised. BEFORE the covenants. And that is where the Gentiles have standing by faith in Christ, as Abraham had faith in God before the covenants, before he was circumcised.

There is a bigger picture. Hey, I have already said that Israel is special. They have a lot of wondrous (horrendous as well) thing that await them. I said horrendous because the wrath God will dump on Israel will be unlike anything ever seen. 2/3rds of Israel's population will be wiped and (and damned by the way). God will save 1/3rd of the population, and purge them. (Zechariah). After that, it is all blessings and wonders for Israel and the Jews. The Gentiles will benefit, but those physical promises are for Israel. There isn't much to say about how it will present itself, because we can't know. We can recognize if we are here and see the end of time. (Our times, the times prior to the Messianic Kingdom).

Replacement theology says that God has rejected and thrown Israel away, and the church is Israel. Therefore the church will receive all the spiritual and physical blessings of the covenants and promises, while Israel will receive all the curses. THIS IS A HERESY. The church has not replaced Israel. Israel has two parts. The nation of, secular, and damned, and then there is the remnant of Israel, who are believers in Christ and as such, are both physical and spiritual descendants of Abraham. They will receive the physical blessings of the covenants and promises, while both the church and the remnant have the spiritual blessings, which is, namely, salvation by faith in Christ.

There is a distinction between Jews and Gentiles, but not in the church, but that is because there is One Lord, One Savior, One Master, One Spirit, One God who is over all and in all. There is one access to God. However, outside the church, when we are talking Jews and Gentiles, there is a distinction, until the consummation of everything. How that will look is again, just glimpses in Revelation 21.

" 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will [a]dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”"

This speaks of all men. So once the struggle of this world is over, once the Messianic Kingdom is complete and Satan is destroyed, all becomes as God originally inteded from the beginning. (We just see glimpses.) Wording is poetic here. God determined all that would happen that has happened. That is why His word is perfect, and no prophecy fails.

You take everything Hebrew and Jewish and Israel and make it Gentile. The New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation were written to the Jews and mixed-race Jews and Jewish Christians who have finally received their Lord and their Lord has finally received them. According to Revelation 20:7-9 the only people that shall remain after fire from heaven destroys all Gentiles is Hebrew and seed of Abraham.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Its fulfillment Theology. Your problem is that you trust in the flesh

Amen. Flesh that has been changed in the twinkling of an eye.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Isaiah 49:6 - And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

Salvation is of the Jews. (that thou mayest be my salvation.)

Israel is that city on a hill giving light to all who live below her:

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth. Deuteronomy 7:5–6.

Such a high calling for Israel. To be a special, chosen people ABOVE all people that are on the face of the earth.

Good passage. Thanks.

 

[brightfame52]

Amen. Flesh that has been changed in the twinkling of an eye.

You still trusting in the flesh, Idolatry

 

[armylngst]

Doesnt mean it hasnt been reasonably implied

It has not. That's the sin in you poking out its head.

Yes and thats the Church, the body of Christ, Spiritual Israel, the Spiritual Seed of Both Christ and Araham. The mere physical physical descendants of abraham and the rest of the non elect gentiles are all just the reprobate children of the devil, the devils spiritual seed. Jn 8:44

But what about the physical descendants of Abraham who are also spiritual children? Those who are not yet saved, so therefore not a part of the church? The remnant, not of the church, but of Israel.

Yes they are, that refers to the Spiritual seed of Faith. Now by you bringing in the nation of israel factor, that indicates you are trusting in the flesh, and that the promise of salvation by Christ is based upon the physical nation. So now you see succinctly why I say you are conditioning the salvation of the "his people" in Matt 1:21 on being of the physical nation of israel by ethnicity. So for here on out thats what I mean when I say you are trusting in the flesh. You have made a difference between Abrahams Spiritual Seed by Faith and Abrahams plain physical seed in Salvation. You imply Abrahams Spiritual seed is a people of faith and are saved, then Abrahams Physical seed are saved by being a ethnic jew of the physical nation of israel.

Wow. That is a huge leap there. There is the nation of Israel, and that will always exist, at least until God destroys 2/3rds of the population and saves the 1/3rd. (see Zechariah). That 1/3rd is the remnant of Israel whom God will purge. Matthew 1:21 may be speaking of Jesus as Messiah, in which case it is the nation of Israel being saved, HOWEVER, only the elect WITHIN the nation of Israel will be saved. It isn't a difficult concept. Israel is two parts. The nation of (secular), and the remnant of (God's chosen elect FROM the nation of Israel.) And no, I have not implied it at all. Perhaps if you didn't just make up what people believe.

The Pharisees and other religious leaders believed that every last Jew born is going to heaven. They say that Abraham stands at the gates of Sheol and ensures not one Jew enters. Jesus fought that belief, and was very clear. In fact, I believe He was the one who said that children of Abraham are basically a dime a dozen. God could raise up children of Abraham from these rocks here. Spiritual descendants/children of Abraham within Israel... much less common. When Zechariah's prophecy comes to pass, only 1/3rd of Israel is saved. That is, only 1/3rd at that time are God's elect, whom God will save at that time, while 2/3rds are destroyed/damned.

However, if you want to talk about Israel being special:

Romans 3
Then what [a]advantage has the Jew? Or what is the benefit of circumcision? 2 Great in every respect. First of all, that they were entrusted with the oracles of God. 3 What then? If some did not believe, their [c]unbelief will not nullify the faithfulness of God, will it? 4 May it never be! Rather, let God be found true, though every man be found a liar, as it is written,

“That You may be justified in Your words,
And prevail when You [d]are judged.”

5 But if our unrighteousness [e]demonstrates the righteousness of God, what shall we say? The God who inflicts wrath is not unrighteous, is He? (I am speaking in human terms.) 6 May it never be! For otherwise, how will God judge the world? 7 But if through my lie the truth of God abounded to His glory, why am I also still being judged as a sinner? 8 And why not say (as we are slanderously reported and as some claim that we say), “Let us do evil that good may come”? [f]Their condemnation is just.

9 What then? [g]Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin;

Paul did not erase the advantages and benefits, however, that does not save anyone. God will remain faithful to Israel even in their unbelief. He has not rejected or thrown Israel away, however, that just speaks of the group as a whole. Only those who are elect of God will be saved in Israel. And they maintain the advantages and benefits. Why else did Paul tell the mixed race Jews to be circumcised? The Abrahamic covenant. Physical (not spiritual) blessings that will be manifested to those of Israel who are believers in Christ in the Messianic Kingdom. The Old Testament prophecies are all about that. And, some of those prophecies mention the Gentiles as well.

Again this is solely dealing with the church not being Israel. Israel, according to Old Testament prophecy, is the wife of Jehovah. The church is the bride of Christ.

 

[armylngst]

The bottom line is God made Promises to Abraham and extended those Promises to Isaac, Jacob, and later, to Jacob's twelve sons and their families, a people identified in Scripture as the children of Israel/Jacob. The whole of the Bible written first by Moses (the Pentateuch), later by various Hebrew prophets, and the Psalms (written by David, Solomon, and others.)

The Promises God made to Abraham and to his seed in their time continue on down through the centuries to today. The Scripture describe Israel's Messiah, Lord, and King returning to fight alongside the Jews against the Gentile nations that surround her, and He destroys them all with the breath of His mouth. Revelation 20:7-9 helps us to understand that after God finally fulfills His Promise to Abraham and his seed to land whose boundaries are etched out in Genesis 15, the only people alive after fire from heaven consumes the enemies of the Jews, then who is left on the planet and who inherits all the earth is well-known. The meek inherit the earth.
And the strong.

The promise made at the time of Isaac affects both the Jews and the Gentiles. There may be a couple, but the promise made to Abraham at the time of Isaac is a spiritual promise, and it benefits the Jews, and the Gentiles by faith. The covenants, the promises dealing specifically with Israel are not usurped, broken, or violated. And yes, I fully believe the Millennial Kingdom in Israel is for the Jews, and over the Jews and Gentiles. As to the makeup, not a clue. However, it would seem that perhaps the church and the Jews are in/around Israel, while those Gentiles who survived the tribulation (believers) populate the rest of the Earth. Again, scripture is not clear, however, I believe that the host that comes down with Christ for the second coming may include the church. Again, I said may. Jews also, since the saved Jews are part of the church, while yet having an inheritance in Abraham.

 

[brightfame52]

It has not.

In my interactions with you it has been

But what about the physical descendants of Abraham who are also spiritual children?

Didnt I just say thats the Church the Body of Christ ?

Those who are not yet saved,

Still the Church as well as unconverted Gentiles. The Church is comprised of people of all ethnicities.

The remnant, not of the church, but of Israel.

Yes the remnant is the Church Spiritual Israel

Wow. That is a huge leap there.

You trusting in the flesh still, and you know why I say that, I explained it to you

 

[armylngst]

You take everything Hebrew and Jewish and Israel and make it Gentile. The New Covenant writings from Matthew to Revelation were written to the Jews and mixed-race Jews and Jewish Christians who have finally received their Lord and their Lord has finally received them. According to Revelation 20:7-9 the only people that shall remain after fire from heaven destroys all Gentiles is Hebrew and seed of Abraham.

No I do not. However, you refuse to recognize when the Bible speaks of Gentile, and it means Gentile. Mixed-raced Jews don't fall under ethnos. It isn't a race, or nationality. Only non-Jewish Gentiles are a recognized race in scripture next to Jews.

"7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison, 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the [c]seashore. 9 And they came up on the [d]broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the [e]saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them."

That goes back to my statement that the saints here are the church, while the city is Jerusalem, and the Jews are there. Note how the camp of the saints is not shown in Jerusalem. Or, the church is still in heaven, waiting until it is all over. Gog and Magog is made up of the ancestors of the believers who survived the tribulation. They die somewhere along the line because they are still fleshy humans. They enter the millennial kingdom as they are. Sure they live longer like the Jews do, but they die nonetheless. Notice the first things don't pass away until after the millennium. The ancestors of those who survive the tribulation (who are obviously believers, because scripture is clear that all who follow the beast and his image, every last single one, dies at Jesus second coming.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You still trusting in the flesh, Idolatry

Abraham asked for an heir. God gave him one in the person of Isaac, his biological son.
During Isaac's life God made additional promises that were passed down biologically to Jacob, with whom God made additional promises that were passed down biologically to Jacob's twelve sons. Jacob's twelve sons in time - 430 years - became a people of over two million souls. After God delivered the Hebrew people from their Egyptian bondage and led them into the desert through Moses' leadership, God gave his Law to the Hebrew people also known as the children of Jacob/Israel. These promises were passed down perpetually through birth and every Hebrew male child was circumcised which separated them from the non-Hebrew Gentiles existing at the time going forward.
In time God sent His Son born of a Hebrew woman and direct descendant of David, who was the second king of the United Kingdom of Israel. God's Law has passed down biologically to every Hebrew male and female born to this people even up to this day.
God chose one man to receive promises of land and prosperity and protection through the generations born biologically to this people. God's promises are generational and perpetual. And they are passed down biologically.
The Lord is coming back for His people the Jews and then God will give them the land promised to Abraham along with other promises He's made to Abraham's seed.
God also promised this people His Spirit and this was fulfilled going forward from Pentecost ca. AD 34 to today.
If you have a problem with God elevating the Hebrew people above all other families on the face of the earth you need to pray about it and accept the fact that God can choose whomever He wants and can promise anyone whom He wills because you cannot make one hair white or black as God does with the Hebrew people who are called the children of Israel. The Hebrew people are recipient of God's Promises with the Holy Spirit being one of those Promises. Every Hebrew born in this world possess the promises of God and as part of God's promises He has given His Spirit to this people and in this the natural seed of Abraham has become the spiritual seed of Abraham for God has promised NOTHING to non-Hebrews and toward the Jewish people God will keep all His promises.

6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Deuteronomy 7:6–9.

The Word of God.

 

[jeremiah1five]

The promise made at the time of Isaac affects both the Jews and the Gentiles. There may be a couple, but the promise made to Abraham at the time of Isaac is a spiritual promise, and it benefits the Jews, and the Gentiles by faith. The covenants, the promises dealing specifically with Israel are not usurped, broken, or violated. And yes, I fully believe the Millennial Kingdom in Israel is for the Jews, and over the Jews and Gentiles. As to the makeup, not a clue. However, it would seem that perhaps the church and the Jews are in/around Israel, while those Gentiles who survived the tribulation (believers) populate the rest of the Earth. Again, scripture is not clear, however, I believe that the host that comes down with Christ for the second coming may include the church. Again, I said may. Jews also, since the saved Jews are part of the church, while yet having an inheritance in Abraham.

The only effect is that Abraham and his seed possess the Promises of God and non-Hebrews do not.

 

[brightfame52]

Abraham asked for an heir. God gave him one in the person of Isaac, his biological son.

You still trusting in the flesh