An honest inquiry into the nature of Christology by a Trinitarian

As a Trinitarian I can honestly recognize some logical problems with Christology as classically stated. Why wasn’t Christ more clear about the formulation we’ve come to hold, and why would he leave us logical dilemmas concerning it?
Since the "totality of God" is well beyond human understanding, then the clarification will have to wait until we KNOW even as we are known. The accuracy of Human theologies isn't important in the final analysis, and human "Logic" will not suffice to "clarify" anything.

ALL YOU HAVE TO KNOW is that Faith in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross is sufficient to cleanse you of your SIN, and indwell you with the Holy SPirit. All the theological "isms" can do is confuse things.
 
Still sticking with your false teaching about Christ I see. You are not an orthodox Trinitarian no matter what you claim. Your words above speak for themselves.

All the Fulness of Deity dwells in Him (permanently) as per Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9. This is how the passage reads and how it is to be understood in its " CONTEXT " from Colossians 1:19;2:9 concerning Christ being fully God lacking nothing in His Divinity while on this earth and His Ascension and also His humanity which remains permanent. The Incarnation was not temporal but Christ remains forever God in the flesh. All the fulness of Deity remains bodily.

In Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9 the Apostle Paul said, For in HIM (CHRIST) ALL of the “ fullness of deity dwells bodily. “Did Paul use the word fullness there to mean partially? NO as Jesus did not empty Himself of His Deity. Jesus Divinity is FULL, complete lacking in nothing. The ENTIRE Fullness of Deity dwells (is present) bodily in Jesus. In Colossians 1:19 it is describing His earthly ministry and Colossians 2:9 it is describing His Post Resurrection/Ascension Glory as God Incarnate.

Colossians 1:19-20
For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven

Colossians 2:9-10- For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

Colossians 3:1- Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Paul is talking in Colossians chapters 2-3 about the glorified resurrected Christ now seated at the right hand of God not the earthly Christ pre resurrection. This is a slam dunk that He is in a human glorified resurrection body and that He continues to have all the fullness of Deity dwelling bodily in the present.

Now read the Greek below on the present ongoing meaning of DWELLS . The bodily dwelling of Deity is permanent not temporary. The Incarnation was PERMANENT.

κατοικεῖ (katoikei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 2730: To dwell in, settle in, be established in (permanently), inhabit. From kata and oikeo; to house permanently, i.e. Reside.
8.2 σωματικός, ή, όν; σωματικῶςa: (derivatives of σῶμαa ‘body,’ 8.1) pertaining to a physical body—‘bodily, physical, bodily form.’[1] Louw Nida


Expositor's Greek Testament
Colossians 2:9. in Him and in Him alone.—κατοικεῖ: “permanently dwells”. The reference is to the Exalted State, not only on account of the present, but of the context and Paul’s Christology generally.—πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος: “all the fulness of the Godhead”. πᾶν is emphatic, the whole fulness dwells in Christ.

“Dwelleth” is katoikei (κατοικει). Oikeō (Ὀικεω) means “to be at home.” Kata (Κατα), prefixed, means “down,” thus showing permanence. The compound verb was used of the permanent residents of a town as compared with the transient community. The verb is in the present tense, showing durative action. The translation reads: “Because in Him there is continuously and permanently at home all the fulness of the Godhead in bodily fashion.”

hope this helps !!!


Deity was always indwelling Christ.....

That is what you stumble over and keep failing to ask the right questions to better understand.

Instead of asking the right questions... You make proclamations about your own righteousness while smearing my name with misapplications and wrongly cited heresies. Heresies that covered the same topics, but in a different manner....

Its hard to reason with someone doing what you do.... And, having others patting you on the back in approval while you do.

And, there we have it folks....
 
Deity was always indwelling Christ.....

That is what you stumble over and keep failing to ask the right questions to better understand.

Instead of asking the right questions... You make self proclamations about your own righteousness while smearing my name with misapplications and wrongly citing heresies that covered the same topics, but in a different manner....
Nice diversion we are talking about the unchanging Deity of the Son. You continue to fail by avoiding the scriptures stating the fullness of Deity dwells in Him while a man on this earth which you went on record in this thread denying several times.
 
Deity never changes. That is a given.
Yet another contradiction and double speak. You said there was no fullness of Deity in Him as a man on this earth and not until His Ascension did He receive it back.

Your own words have come back to bite you.
 
Deity can do... :

WHATEVER IT WANTS.

And God said unto Moses, I Will Become whatsoever I please. And he said--
Thus, shalt thou say to the sons of Israel, I Will Become hath sent me unto you. (Exod. 3:14 ROT)


Let's STOP telling God what he CAN'T do.

And let's ask God what he HAS done!


THE WORD BECAME FLESH.
 
Deity can do... :

WHATEVER IT WANTS.

And God said unto Moses, I Will Become whatsoever I please. And he said--
Thus, shalt thou say to the sons of Israel, I Will Become hath sent me unto you. (Exod. 3:14 ROT)


Let's STOP telling God what he CAN'T do.

And let's ask God what he HAS done!


THE WORD BECAME FLESH.
Yep the Father like the Son can withhold using His attributes whenever They choose too.

Hope this helps !!!
 
Since the "totality of God" is well beyond human understanding, then the clarification will have to wait until we KNOW even as we are known. The accuracy of Human theologies isn't important in the final analysis, and human "Logic" will not suffice to "clarify" anything.

God gave us his Word for a reason.

So there ARE some things we can know about him.

And they DO matter.

ALL YOU HAVE TO KNOW is that Faith in the SIN OFFERING of Jesus on the cross is sufficient to cleanse you of your SIN, and indwell you with the Holy SPirit.

I more or less agree with this essential salvific truth, but truth is revealed through spiritual revelation, not your words, not any words, by themselves.

But what you said here that you seem to think is on a kindergarten level, is actually a heck of a mouthful, with a necessary understanding of so many things.

You can't just bypass any analysis or description for your own special magic words and call that really simpler.
 
In His very essence, Jesus is God. There's no getting around that fact and it doesn't change he's the same yesterday today and forever. The gnostics denied this, and their heresy is still alive and well today. Every cult stems from Gnosticism for every cult denies that Jesus Christ is God. The Mormons deny it. They say the Son of God is not equal with God. Rather, they maintain He is merely the offspring of God. The Jehovah’s Witnesses declare Jesus is a God.
 
Yet another contradiction and double speak. You said there was no fullness of Deity in Him as a man on this earth and not until His Ascension did He receive it back.

Your own words have come back to bite you.
One more time for those who keep blanking out when shown what is written.

Until you can explain the following?
You will keep sounding like the Word of God is lying to us if what you have been assuming were an accurate understanding of what you keep citing with eyes shut tight.

For it says....

(And, keeps on saying!)



“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” (Luke 22:42)


“And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man” (Luke 2:52)


Its obvious after reading those verses that there is a major flaw in your understanding of how His Deity was always indwelling Him.

Looks like you keep assuming that I am saying his Deity somehow waved him goodbye.
And, then went fishing, leaving Jesus to walk the earth alone as a man without his deity indwelling him.

Here is a question:
If there is an avalanche? And, an entire village in the valley gets destroyed with many lives lost?
Tell me? Did God stop being God when that happened?

Likewise, His Deity did not stop being God when his Deity in Him was allowing for his soul to experience life as a man!

That is how you (and some others here) keep slipping and sliding, and slamming into walls of of ignorance about how Deity can work in different situations.

God is the God who is capable of doing nothing to influence the choices of souls. When He CHOOSES to do nothing!


When you get it? That will be good.
 
Paul testifies to the deity of Jesus Christ by identifying Him as our great God and Savior.

Awaiting and looking for the [fulfillment, the realization of our] blessed hope, even the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Christ Jesus (the Messiah, the Anointed One), Titus 2:13
 
One more time for those who keep blanking out when shown what is written.

Until you can explain the following?
You will keep sounding like the Word of God is lying to us if what you have been assuming were an accurate understanding of what you keep citing with eyes shut tight.

For it says....

(And, keeps on saying!)



“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” (Luke 22:42)


“And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man” (Luke 2:52)


Its obvious after reading those verses that there is a major flaw in your understanding of how His Deity was always indwelling Him.

Looks like you keep assuming that I am saying his Deity somehow waved him goodbye.
And, then went fishing, leaving Jesus to walk the earth alone as a man without his deity indwelling him.

Here is a question:
If there is an avalanche? And, an entire village in the valley gets destroyed with many lives lost?
Tell me? Did God stop being God when that happened?

Likewise, His Deity did not stop being God when his Deity in Him was allowing for his soul to experience life as a man!

That is how you (and some others here) keep slipping and sliding, and slamming into walls of of ignorance about how Deity can work in different situations.

God is the God who is capable of doing nothing to influence the choices of souls. When He CHOOSES to do nothing!


When you get it? That will be good.
Trinitarians do not deny Jesus was fully human as the scriptures above declare. In the same way REAL TRINITARIANS do no deny He is fully God ( all the fulness of Deity dwells in Him lacking nothing ) as you deny making your claims of being a Trinitarian false.

When you get it that will be good. Its the first step to recovery. Admitting your errors in your claims.

hope this helps !!!
 
Here is a question:
If there is an avalanche? And, an entire village in the valley gets destroyed with many lives lost?

That is how you (and some others here) keep slipping and sliding, and slamming into walls of of ignorance about how Deity can work in different situations.
I blame global warming.

This is an extremely deep topic which has entire forum sites dedicated to it. However I will attempt to summarize the key points for the average enthusiast.

First - Don't ever travel into uncontrolled avalanche terrain if you have not received proper training from an expert in avalanche conditions, triggers, mitigation, and rescue. It's stupid, seriously you can die, and many people each year do.

Second - If you receive training the first thing that you will be taught is to Always wear a transceiver, and know how to use it. It is very possible that your life or that of someone you care about will be saved by a transceiver. Your better off forgetting your ski's or snowboard than your transceiver.

Third - Always carry a shovel, avalanche probe pole, and extra clothing when in avalanche terrain.

Now that's out of the way, we return to our regularly scheduled programming.
 

There Civic goes again.

Leaving it up to the bias of his likeminded lurkers here, who like himself, are not knowing what words mean to be his answer.
Problem is... With me he can not take more than one verse and use it out of context to make his point with me.

Well, at least he is getting better. He's no longer broad brushing, by citing titles of heresies and assuming others will accept it
on face value. Even without knowing exactly what exactly the heresies speak of, which is different than what he was trying to
label another with by word association. You speak of the humanity of Christ? He will choose a heresy that was based upon
something concerning the humanity of Christ..... even though what he is wishing to suppress does not speak of the humanity
of Christ in the same way...

Civic....

If ever have to to court? My advice? Get a lawyer. Do not assume you can defend yourself like you do here.

All it would take is one smart lawyer to show the jury that what you cite is not really what the case involves.
But, as it stands right now?
What you do is like someone trying to stir up the towns people with your own heresy....
That smart lawyer will nail your boots to the floor if it ever came to that, if he could get you before an impartial judge.
As of now.. you keep trying to turn the jury into the judge.

Have a nice Day. 😀 ..... Its beautiful outside!


..........
 
The Bible proclaims The deity to the world.

1. John 1:1,14 “The Word was God….The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.”
2. John 1:18 NASB “The only begotten God.”
3. John 20:28 Thomas said to him [Jesus] “My Lord and my God.”
4. Titus 2:13 “Our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.”
5. Hebrews 1:8 But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever.”
6. 2 Peter 1:1 “Our God and Savior Jesus Christ.”
7. 1 John 5:20 “Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.”
8. Colossians 2:9 “In Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”
9. Isaiah 9:6 “For to us a child is born….and he will be called….Mighty God.”
10. Isaiah 7:14/Matthew 1:23 “Immanuel”—which means, “God with us.”
11. Hebrews 1:3 “The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His being….
12. Colossians 1:15,16 “He is the image of the invisible God….by him all things were created.”
13. Acts 20:28 The church was purchased with the blood of God.
14. 2 Corinthians 4:4 “Christ, who is the image of God.”
15. Romans 9:5 “Christ, who is God over all, forever praised.”
16. 1 Corinthians 1:24 “Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.”
17. 2 Thessalonians 1:12 “Our God and Lord Jesus Christ.”
18. Philippians 2:6 “being in very nature God.” (The Greek could be literally translated “continuing to subsist in the form of God.”)22

In light of all these scriptures and more, can any thinking person logically deny that the Bible teaches Jesus Christ is God?
 
In light of all these scriptures and more, can any thinking person logically deny that the Bible teaches Jesus Christ is God?

Usually, from my experience, they just attempt to water down the meaning of divinity.

Something divine-like, but not God proper.
 
There Civic goes again.

Leaving it up to the bias of his likeminded lurkers here, who like himself, are not knowing what words mean to be his answer.
Problem is... With me he can not take more than one verse and use it out of context to make his point with me.

Well, at least he is getting better. He's no longer broad brushing, by citing titles of heresies and assuming others will accept it
on face value. Even without knowing exactly what exactly the heresies speak of, which is different than what he was trying to
label another with by word association. You speak of the humanity of Christ? He will choose a heresy that was based upon
something concerning the humanity of Christ..... even though what he is wishing to suppress does not speak of the humanity
of Christ in the same way...

Civic....

If ever have to to court? My advice? Get a lawyer. Do not assume you can defend yourself like you do here.

All it would take is one smart lawyer to show the jury that what you cite is not really what the case involves.
But, as it stands right now?
What you do is like someone trying to stir up the towns people with your own heresy....
That smart lawyer will nail your boots to the floor if it ever came to that, if he could get you before an impartial judge.
As of now.. you keep trying to turn the jury into the judge.

Have a nice Day. 😀 ..... Its beautiful outside!


..........
In a Protestant , Christian courtroom I would win and you would be proven guilty as charged. I could guarantee its results. :)
 
Usually, from my experience, they just attempt to water down the meaning of divinity.

Something divine-like, but not God proper.
That's interesting, Sounds like pagan Gnosticism and mixed with Christianity.

Sound doctrine leads logically to the tenets of inerrancy and infallibility. The Bible authors wrote as they were guided by the Holy Spirit, therefore those words must be trustworthy in all respects. The word “inerrancy” means that the Bible is without error in its original manuscripts. The word “infallibility” means that it is accurate, unfailing, and authoritative.

It’s possible to accumulate a lot of information and store up a lot of data. But only the Bible provides an infallible foundation for true knowledge.

That's why we we put on the Girdle of Truth! So we can stand firm in the truth of God's Word and not be a victim of Satan's lies.
 
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