civic
Well-known member
Yes. In the same sense you and I die when our spirit/soul is separated from our body. Our bodies are dead, not our spirit/souls. To be absent from our body(at death) is the be present with the Lord.
An honest inquiry into the nature of Christology by a Trinitarian
- Thread starter Dizerner
- Start date
Brakelite
Active member
I would agree, but His origins and His former existence would have came by revelation, not a knowledge He arrived with. He came as a child. He learnt scripture at His mother's knee, and through the holy Spirit understood 'the law and the prophets and the psalms because they testified of Himself'. He recognised Who He was as a child growing up,
KJV Luke 2:40, 42, 46-49, 51-52
40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
42 And when he was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem after the custom of the feast.
46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.
47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
51 And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them: but his mother kept all these sayings in her heart.
52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God
and man.
Rockson
Well-known member
Sure. I believe in the Trinity, God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. Blessed Trinity . Theologians do like to add their own convictions on a lot of things around this subject and the incarnation....I find they take liberties in asserting their own personal convictions over that which has been clearly and simply stated.
Sure. We live in a world actually where there is a sense of oneness and can be rightly called that.....and yet they're separate. Adam and Eve were called one flesh. God called their name Adam. And yet....they were separate.
I believe you're referring to John 17:5? And now, Father, glorify Me in Your presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed. I agree with you it would be.
So what would be wrong with that? The point would be that Jesus did become a man correct? If they're set aside, dormant or veiled whatever term one wanted to use Jesus in real terms would still be functioning as a authentic and genuine man.
I think we insist on comprehending everything where it just might be that we can't. We can't understand a lot of things.....like God always existing forever, eternity, we can just accept some things just ARE because they ARE. When it comes to the incarnation if he said he did A or B we need to just accept it. If we say he just cannot be God then we might be surprised to see him tell us "Wanna bet?" Of course my BET humor may not apply but you get my point.
When it comes to how God's character is when it comes to LOVE and justice and not showing favoritism towards people I don't believe God can do that so some might say I'm having a position different then what I said above. When it comes to God's attributes as it applies to whether one member of the God head can chose to set aside, suspend or veil them even from himself for a period of time....
I think I'd very much still call him God if that were the case. I'd suggest we would be wise and prudent not to play god ourselves and tell him what's possible. As I said we can't even comprehend how God could have lived in prior times forever, or eternity....but we accept it.
Now I know I've opened myself up for criticism for not being consistent in what I've said above in blue...but this is what I believe. His character, disposition and love is clear.....what he chooses to do with his attributes OR CAN do.....I'd say that's God's department not mine.
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Dizerner
Well-known member
I don't really get what you're saying, can you flesh it out more.
Rockson
Well-known member
What I mean in blue was God's character when it comes to LOVE....favoritism God electing people for salvation......commanding them to repent while knowing all the time they can't .....that they'd need what Calvinist put out as irresistible grace I believe that's impossible for God to be that way.
civic
Well-known member
Agreed
Dizerner
Well-known member
Ahhh, I get it now.
Do you think it's possible God might do anything at all that you would personally find unloving or unjust?
civic
Well-known member
Nope
Dizerner
Well-known member
Nope
Doesn't this logically equate to the claim that your knowledge of what love and justice is, is absolutely perfect and complete?
After all, Jesus said offenses WILL come, not that they might come.
And to put oneself somehow above offense at God with an absolute perfection of understanding of what divine love means seems presumptuous.
Dizerner
Well-known member
If you think so then its your misunderstanding of God as a human.
Isn't that my point though, that we all as humans, have the capacity to misjudge?
To not see our hidden idols and demands for God to act a certain way?
GeneZ
Well-known member
Why don't you just come out and say it the way you mean it?
"Always wrong."
Right...
For from your arsenal list of heresies you can always pull something out that will cover the subject
that I am touching upon, and declare its that heresy I teach. You don't have the ability to know what
you are talking about when you do that. You will MISUSE buzz words like immutability and not properly
making an application. But demand that I accept you distorted way of using it.
Neat trick.... But wears thin after you begin following the same pattern for everything.
Now, if I want some silence from you? Just confront you with contradicts your neat little package as follows.
You will not be able to give an intelligent answer as to why it is so.
“And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man” (Luke 2:52).
God can not increase in wisdom. You do know that? I know you do.
But you keep claiming that Jesus, even though he has two natures in union, is being God in both natures..... explain?
The other one I never get an intelligent answer for is this one.
“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” Luke 22:42
It almost amounts to when admitting that Jesus has two natures? With being pulled over and being issued a "heresy" ticket by the Law.
I have never gotten an honest response from you concerning those two passages. Always sending me to somewhere else to read what was said elsewhere on many paragraphs of data, rather than show those following the forum what you actually think for yourself....
When that happens? There is no dialogue to be found, and your real thoughts not allowed to be brought into question.....
The Bereans searched the Scriptures themselves. They did not depend on commentaries, which are not the same thing.
I would like to see a direct and honest answer from you concerning those two verses so we can establish exactly what is heretical or not.
Are you up to it this time?
And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight."
Philippians 1:9
Philippians 1:9
The more knowledge you possess of sound doctrine?
The less something sounds weird to those who lack that knowledge to think with.
That has been the problem.
And, by simply boarding over the insecure doorway with alleged heresies does not allow for imparting knowledge which is needed to think with to make it strong.
grace and peace ..................
civic
Well-known member
Stick to the topic instead of the usual diversion. I dismatled your false teaching on the fulness of Deity in Christ from both texts in Colossians 1:19 and 2:9 with sound exegesis, the lexicons, the greek and the context. You ran away form it as expected because you are incapable of staying on topic when you have been exposed on your heretical beliefs on Christ having all the fulness of Deity while on this earth lacking nothing.
GeneZ
Well-known member
Break it down as it really is....
“And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favour with God and man” (Luke 2:52).
God can not increase in wisdom. You do know that? I know you do.
But you keep claiming that Jesus, even though he has two natures in union, is being God in both natures...
“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” Luke 22:42
That happened while he was always filled with the fullness of Deity. Why did it end up that way?
What is God's plan for the two natures being in union?
GeneZ
Well-known member
Why do you see the dealing with the topic as a diversion?
Dizerner
Well-known member
It's from his old Calvinist days, you'll have to excuse him, bad habits die hard.
civic
Well-known member
Nope not until you address my post about your false view on the fulness of Deity dwelling in Christ during His days on earth in my post from Colossians 1:19 and 2:9. Those 2 passages say the same thing about the fulness of Deity in Him on this earth for 33 years and after His Ascension in heaven. No difference in His Deity having complete Fulness lacking nothing in His Deity.
civic
Well-known member
No my reply was ignored when I challenged the false statement made about the fulness of deity lacking in Christ like he claimed, it has nothing to do with calvinism but everything to do with the Truth about Christ.
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