An honest inquiry into the nature of Christology by a Trinitarian

Wong once again I see.

All the Fulness of Deity dwells in Him (permanently) as per Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9. This is how the passage reads and how it is to be understood in its " CONTEXT " from Colossians 1:19;2:9 concerning Christ being fully God lacking nothing in His Divinity while on this earth and His Ascension and also His humanity which remains permanent. The Incarnation was not temporal but Christ remains forever God in the flesh. All the fulness of Deity remains bodily.

In Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9 the Apostle Paul said, For in HIM (CHRIST) ALL of the “ fullness of deity dwells bodily. “Did Paul use the word fullness there to mean partially? NO as Jesus did not empty Himself of His Deity. Jesus Divinity is FULL, complete lacking in nothing. The ENTIRE Fullness of Deity dwells (is present) bodily in Jesus. In Colossians 1:19 it is describing His earthly ministry and Colossians 2:9 it is describing His Post Resurrection/Ascension Glory as God Incarnate.

Colossians 1:19-20
For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven

Colossians 2:9-10- For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

Colossians 3:1- Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Paul is talking in Colossians chapters 2-3 about the glorified resurrected Christ now seated at the right hand of God not the earthly Christ pre resurrection. This is a slam dunk that He is in a human glorified resurrection body and that He continues to have all the fullness of Deity dwelling bodily in the present.

Now read the Greek below on the present ongoing meaning of DWELLS . The bodily dwelling of Deity is permanent not temporary. The Incarnation was PERMANENT.

κατοικεῖ (katoikei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 2730: To dwell in, settle in, be established in (permanently), inhabit. From kata and oikeo; to house permanently, i.e. Reside.
8.2 σωματικός, ή, όν; σωματικῶςa: (derivatives of σῶμαa ‘body,’ 8.1) pertaining to a physical body—‘bodily, physical, bodily form.’[1] Louw Nida


Expositor's Greek Testament
Colossians 2:9. in Him and in Him alone.—κατοικεῖ: “permanently dwells”. The reference is to the Exalted State, not only on account of the present, but of the context and Paul’s Christology generally.—πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος: “all the fulness of the Godhead”. πᾶν is emphatic, the whole fulness dwells in Christ.

“Dwelleth” is katoikei (κατοικει). Oikeō (Ὀικεω) means “to be at home.” Kata (Κατα), prefixed, means “down,” thus showing permanence. The compound verb was used of the permanent residents of a town as compared with the transient community. The verb is in the present tense, showing durative action. The translation reads: “Because in Him there is continuously and permanently at home all the fulness of the Godhead in bodily fashion.”

hope this helps !!!
GeneZ said:
When He ascended and was glorified he became the fullness of Deity in bodily form.
If He had been that way prior to the Cross? He could never have been crucified.

The above by @GeneZ is a false teaching regarding Christ that I corrected in the quote above in the 2 passages in the N.T. that talk specifically about the fulness of Deity dwelling in Christ. They are found nowhere else in the N.T. except in Colossians.

hope this helps !!!
 
IT'S THE HYPODERMIC UNION!!!

Well.. that can get you the "cold shoulder"....

From some who refuse to come to grips with that Jesus is not only fully God. But, He is simultaneously fully man.
They do not want to know why He is also FULLY MAN. They just want to bow down and worship without thinking.

Such are the ins and outs of spiritual warfare....

And having troops refusing to budge when God wants them to become fully armed for a battle they refuse to deal with, while they create their own internal conflicts as to get their minds off of what needs being taken care of.

Fighting amongst ourselves while the enemy laughs at how foolish we can be...
 
Well.. that can get you the "cold shoulder"....

From some who refuse to come to grips with that Jesus is not only fully God. But, He is simultaneously fully man.
They do not want to know why He is also FULLY MAN. They just want to bow down and worship without thinking.

Such are the ins and outs of spiritual warfare....

And having troops refusing to budge when God wants them to become fully armed for a battle they refuse to deal with, while they create their own internal conflicts as to get their minds off of what needs being taken care of.

Fighting amongst ourselves while the enemy laughs at how foolish we can be...
Still sticking with your false teaching about Christ I see. You are not an orthodox Trinitarian no matter what you claim. Your words above speak for themselves.

All the Fulness of Deity dwells in Him (permanently) as per Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9. This is how the passage reads and how it is to be understood in its " CONTEXT " from Colossians 1:19;2:9 concerning Christ being fully God lacking nothing in His Divinity while on this earth and His Ascension and also His humanity which remains permanent. The Incarnation was not temporal but Christ remains forever God in the flesh. All the fulness of Deity remains bodily.

In Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9 the Apostle Paul said, For in HIM (CHRIST) ALL of the “ fullness of deity dwells bodily. “Did Paul use the word fullness there to mean partially? NO as Jesus did not empty Himself of His Deity. Jesus Divinity is FULL, complete lacking in nothing. The ENTIRE Fullness of Deity dwells (is present) bodily in Jesus. In Colossians 1:19 it is describing His earthly ministry and Colossians 2:9 it is describing His Post Resurrection/Ascension Glory as God Incarnate.

Colossians 1:19-20
For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20 and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven

Colossians 2:9-10- For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

Colossians 3:1- Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

Paul is talking in Colossians chapters 2-3 about the glorified resurrected Christ now seated at the right hand of God not the earthly Christ pre resurrection. This is a slam dunk that He is in a human glorified resurrection body and that He continues to have all the fullness of Deity dwelling bodily in the present.

Now read the Greek below on the present ongoing meaning of DWELLS . The bodily dwelling of Deity is permanent not temporary. The Incarnation was PERMANENT.

κατοικεῖ (katoikei)
Verb - Present Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 2730: To dwell in, settle in, be established in (permanently), inhabit. From kata and oikeo; to house permanently, i.e. Reside.
8.2 σωματικός, ή, όν; σωματικῶςa: (derivatives of σῶμαa ‘body,’ 8.1) pertaining to a physical body—‘bodily, physical, bodily form.’[1] Louw Nida


Expositor's Greek Testament
Colossians 2:9. in Him and in Him alone.—κατοικεῖ: “permanently dwells”. The reference is to the Exalted State, not only on account of the present, but of the context and Paul’s Christology generally.—πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος: “all the fulness of the Godhead”. πᾶν is emphatic, the whole fulness dwells in Christ.

“Dwelleth” is katoikei (κατοικει). Oikeō (Ὀικεω) means “to be at home.” Kata (Κατα), prefixed, means “down,” thus showing permanence. The compound verb was used of the permanent residents of a town as compared with the transient community. The verb is in the present tense, showing durative action. The translation reads: “Because in Him there is continuously and permanently at home all the fulness of the Godhead in bodily fashion.”

hope this helps !!!
 
2 cor 10: For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. 4 The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. 5 We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ. 6 And we will be ready to punish every act of disobedience, once your obedience is complete.

hope this helps !!!
 
Why do you see the dealing with the topic as a diversion?
You did not address Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9 about the fulness of Deity you claimed was missing in Christ which is a false and unbiblical statement that needs to be corrected.
 
You did not address Colossians 1:19 and Colossians 2:9 about the fulness of Deity you claimed was missing in Christ which is a false and unbiblical statement that needs to be corrected.

How does the fullness of omnipresence dwell in a physically located and limited body?
 
Fully God, ask Him. Take it up with God if you believe God can become not God.

So when a philosophical dilemma that seems illogical contradicts your presuppositions you say "ask God."

But when it suits what you already believe, you say a person is being illogical.

That seems like inconsistently rewriting the rules based on each context to make yourself look more right.
 
So when a philosophical dilemma that seems illogical contradicts your presuppositions you say "ask God."

But when it suits what you already believe, you say a person is being illogical.

That seems like inconsistently rewriting the rules based on each context to make yourself look more right.
Nope my Theology (the study of God ) begins and ends with the nature/character /attributes of God as my starting point.
 
Amazing how some want to strip and wipe away the fulness of Deity in Christ as per Colossians 1:19, 2:9 and Phil 2. Unbelievable all the while trying to hang onto being a "Trinitarian" but not in any historical, biblical and orthodox sense of the meaning.

hope this helps !!!
 
A real trinitarian knows Jesus is fully man and a real trinitarian knows Jesus is fully God lacking nothing in His Deity.

It’s ironic how some desire to strip Him of His Deity but never His humanity.

His humanity is never questioned by trinitarians or Unitarians but His Deity is under attack by Unitarians and professing Trinitarians. Talk about an oxymoron this takes the cake. Old slyfoot always attacks His Deity and questions God.
 
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Well.. that can get you the "cold shoulder"....

From some who refuse to come to grips with that Jesus is not only fully God. But, He is simultaneously fully man.
They do not want to know why He is also FULLY MAN. They just want to bow down and worship without thinking.

Such are the ins and outs of spiritual warfare....

And having troops refusing to budge when God wants them to become fully armed for a battle they refuse to deal with, while they create their own internal conflicts as to get their minds off of what needs being taken care of.

Fighting amongst ourselves while the enemy laughs at how foolish we can be...

Paul wrote his letter to the Colossians to help them understand better the greatness of Christ, their new position in Christ, and the expectations God has for them. Paul summarizes much about Christ in the statement that in Christ all the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily (Colossians 1:19).

For believers to truly understand the riches they have in Christ, they need to understand more about who He really is. Paul explains that in Christ we have forgiveness of sins (Colossians 1:14). Christ is the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15a), or, as Matthew Henry put it, “the visible discovery of the invisible God” (Commentary, Col. 1:15–23). Christ has sovereign rights over all creation (Colossians 1:15b). In fact, Christ is the Creator of all—everything that exists was created “in him . . . through him and for him” (Colossians 1:16). If you want to see God, look at Jesus, “for God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him” (Colossians 1:19).

After explaining the preeminence of Jesus Christ (Colossians 1:17–18), Paul adds that it is the Father’s pleasure that all the fullness of deity dwell in Christ (Colossians 1:19)—Jesus isn’t usurping anything that doesn’t belong to Him. He is God. Because Jesus is Deity, He has the qualification and authority to bring redemption and reconciliation with God to humanity (Colossians 1:20).

As John put it, Jesus has revealed and explained the Father to us (John 1:18). No one else was qualified to do this because no one had even seen the Father; only Christ could communicate the Father to humanity. Paul adds that Jesus is God’s mystery revealed (Colossians 2:2). Jesus is the revelation of God, and it is in Him that all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge can be found (Colossians 2:3). Because of Jesus’ intimate relationship with the Father and how He reveals the Father to humanity, we can trust in Him as sufficient for providing reconciliation or peace with the Father through His shed blood on the cross (Colossians 2:20).

Just as the Colossians had received Christ, they were to walk in Him (Colossians 2:6). They were also to beware of philosophies, traditions, and basic principles that were not of Christ (Colossians 2:8), because only in Christ does the fullness of the Godhead dwell bodily. If a system of thought is rooted in anything other than Christ, then it can deceive and take someone captive. On the other hand, if the Colossians would acknowledge the philosophy (or system of ideas) that is according to Christ, then they would be able to put the principles into practice that God had designed for them. If Jesus is the physical person of God (both fully God and fully man), then we can be confident that following Him is following the truth. Believers should avoid falsehood, hold fast to Jesus as “the head,” and understand that their growth in God comes from Him (Colossians 2:19). We no longer live according to the elementary principles of a world that denies Christ (Colossians 2:20)—those principles are powerless to help us.

Because in Christ the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily (Colossians 2:9), believers can have confidence that one day, when He is revealed in glory, we will also appear with Him in glory (Colossians 3:4). Our future is certain, based on the person and work of Jesus Christ. Believers need to focus on seeking the things that matter to Christ, who is in heaven and who will return one day (Colossians 3:1–3).

We have a new position in Christ and new life through belief in Him, and we should prioritize what is important to Him, knowing that in Christ the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily (Colossians 1:19). Because of who He is, He can and will deliver on His promises. Got ?

Conclusion: Beware of those who would deceive you with their empty human philosophies concerning Christ and His Deity. Colossians 2:8

hope this helps !!!
 
A real trinitarian knows Jesus is fully man and a real trinitarian knows Jesus is fully God lacking nothing in His Deity.

It’s ironic how some desire also strip Him of His deity but never His humanity.

His humanity is never questioned by trinitarians or Unitarians but His Deity is under attack by Unitarians and professing Trinitarians. Talk about an oxymoron this takes the cake. Old slyfoot always attacks His Deity and questions God.
Our eternal destiny hinges on knowing Jesus is fully God. The deity of Christ is crystal clear In the Bible. The Bible does not teach that God divested Himself of His divine attributes and became a mere man. Scripture teaches that such a thing is impossible – God’s nature cannot change. “I the LORD do not change. So you, the descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed." Malachi 3:6

The Gospel accounts show that the Lord Jesus still possessed all the attributes of God even while on earth. In fact, in one chapter we see that He had the three great “omni” attributes that belong to God alone – omnipresence (present at all places), omnipotence (possessing all power) and omniscience (all-knowing).

God didn’t become less than God, neither did He become less than man. So what did happen at the incarnation? God (in the person of the Son), took human nature in addition to His divine nature. The incarnation was not a subtraction but an addition. He is both God and man, human and divine. As the Bible puts it, “In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily” Colossians 2:9
 
Our eternal destiny hinges on knowing Jesus is fully God. The deity of Christ is crystal clear In the Bible. The Bible does not teach that God divested Himself of His divine attributes and became a mere man. Scripture teaches that such a thing is impossible – God’s nature cannot change. “I the LORD do not change. So you, the descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed." Malachi 3:6

The Gospel accounts show that the Lord Jesus still possessed all the attributes of God even while on earth. In fact, we see that He had the three great “omni” attributes that belong to God alone – omnipresence (present at all places), omnipotence (possessing all power) and omniscience (all-knowing).

God didn’t become less than God, neither did He become less than man. So what did happen at the incarnation? God (in the person of the Son), took human nature in addition to His divine nature. The incarnation was not a subtraction but an addition. He is both God and man, human and divine. As the Bible puts it, “In Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily” Colossians 2:9
Spot on my Trinitarian brother . :)
 
The Bible does not teach that God divested Himself of His divine attributes and became a mere man.

Let me introduce you to something called....

The Bible.


And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn. 1:14 NKJ)

But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. (Mk. 13:32 NKJ)
 
Let me introduce you to something called....

The Bible.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn. 1:14 NKJ)

But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. (Mk. 13:32 NKJ)
That's okay you can keep the Jehovah Witness translation of the Bible.

John 1:1 clearly states “the Word was God.” It’s unreasonable to deny that this verse is teaching the deity of Christ. Cultists do deny it but Christians have upheld this obvious interpretation for two thousand years.

 
Let me introduce you to something called....

The Bible.

And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us (Jn. 1:14 NKJ)

But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. (Mk. 13:32 NKJ)
Rev 19:12 ( NKJ ) :)
His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had a name written that no one knew except Himself.

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hope this helps !!!
 
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