Wilber
Active member
Hey...I resemble that remark.
An honest inquiry into the nature of Christology by a Trinitarian
- Thread starter Diserner
- Start date
Lamentations 3:21-24
21 But this I call to mind;
therefore I have hope:
22 The Lord’s loyal kindness never ceases;
his compassions never end.
23 They are fresh every morning;
your faithfulness is abundant!
24 “My portion is the Lord,” I have said to myself,
so I will put my hope in him.
21 But this I call to mind;
therefore I have hope:
22 The Lord’s loyal kindness never ceases;
his compassions never end.
23 They are fresh every morning;
your faithfulness is abundant!
24 “My portion is the Lord,” I have said to myself,
so I will put my hope in him.
Grace ambassador
Well-known member
Precious friend, if I may suggest:
God Allows us, His Body, to still be subject to "the presence" of sin, in order to
"access His Grace" overcoming sin, in order to bring "Honor And Glory" To Him,
living holy and reaching the world with The Gospel Of Grace, Until we share It
with "the Very Last member" of The Body, and our Great Grace Departure Occurs,
at which time, this Will Be our 'glorification' [ deliverance ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ from sin! ]:
"...when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have
put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying That Is Written,
Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where
is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
But thanks be to God, Which Giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding
in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in
the Lord." (1 Corinthians 15:54-58)
Which All Will Be: "To The Praise Of The Glory Of HIS { Amazing } GRACE!"Amen.
Which is basically what I said. The Bible doesn't contain all mysteries but it has enough truth for us to overcome if we study and walk according to His plan contained within the scriptures. In this way (which is His way) we come to sin less as we grow to maturity.
I would like an answer to my question please civic instead of your above diversion.
Wilber
Active member
He did and that's what makes us Overcomers.
Paul teaches in Romans 6 that when we’re united to Christ, we’ve died to the dominion of sin, but sin hasn’t yet died in us.
Our Spiritual maturity is learning how to overcome the enemies of sin, death, and Satan. We die to self and once we grasp the joy that comes from living entirely by our new creation, we know it’s worth hearing the death rattle of our old nature.
civic
Well-known member
Without holiness no one will see the Lord .
Those who practice sin John says are not of the truth. And do not have eternal life.
Do you believe that ?
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
No that is not what you said. What I posted is contrary to your claim.
No. The Bible is not the "save all" you've been told it is. Jesus is.
The Bible is incomplete and not sufficient to prevent sin in the life of the faithful. It is why that Paul stated what he stated with the words he wrote to Corinth.
You prove it every time you personally sin. So do I. Paul KNEW the Scriptures. He had to learn to love like God.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
May I suggest an alternative?
We (human beings) value nothing that is not our own. We strive and fight to have our way. We value our own efforts. It is not the presence of sin that brings the Grace of God.
It is realizing that we are powerless to help ourselves. You may call this "Grace" and you would be right to certain degree but this is not the "all the story".....
Yet He learned obedience by what He suffered........
It is the learning of obedience through our willingness to humble ourselves and be "Christ like". That is a lifelong journey acknowledging our weaknesses and failures. Relying solely upon the power of God.
praise_yeshua
Well-known member
The "new creation" is still incomplete.
civic
Well-known member
I will let the Bible answer your question that way you can’t blame me, you can disagree with Jesus and the Apostle's.
Here is what Jesus and the Apostles taught about obedience, personal holiness and sin. The author of Hebrews 12:14 says: without holiness no man will see the Lord.
Jesus teaching
Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Luke 6:46
Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I say?
Luke 11:28
Blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey it
John 8:31
If you hold to My teaching you are truly My disciples
John 15:14
You are My friends if you do what I command you
John 13:17
If you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.
John 14:15
If you love Me you will keep My commandments
John the disciple whom Jesus loved teaching:
1 John 2
And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.
1 John 2
Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. 10 Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling. 11 But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.
1 John 2
If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.
1 John 3
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.
1 John 4
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.
1 John 5
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith
Paul's teaching:
Romans 6:1
Shall we continue in sin that grace might abound ? May it NEVER be !
Galatians 5
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.
Colossians 3
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.
Ephesians 2
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.
Titus 2:11-15
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing us to the intent that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we would live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present age; 13 looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity and purify for himself a people for his own possession, zealous for good works. 15 Say these things and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one despise you.
Peters Teaching
1 Peter 1
Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”
1 Peter 4
As a result, they do not live the rest of their earthly lives for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. 3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. 4 They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you.
2 Peter 1:3-11
His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
hope this helps !!!
DavidTree
Well-known member
3 witnesses = Paul , Eve , the LORD
Paul stated that Eve was deceived.
Eve confessed to the LORD = the serpent deceived me"
the LORD agreed with her confession
This is what went down = James 1:13-15
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed.
Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.
Eve was deceived thru enticement of desire = "when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree desirable to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate"
Eve believed what God had said as she even declared it to satan.
However, Eve remained LOOKING at the forbidden fruit and satan planted in her mind this which she said: "nor shall you touch it."
This was the turning point that enabled the DESIRE to overcome the commandment.
Once Eve touched the fruit and she did not die, there was no holding back at that point.
Before the fruit reached her lips it had already taken place in her heart - the eating was the slam dunk.
How many Saints, who believe God and His word, have fallen but not thru unbelief but thru DESIRE !!!
Saints who have fallen to the sin of adultery KNOW what God has said but the DESIRE actuated by the Tempter uses his power to get us to LOOK and FOCUS at what is forbidden and to DESIRE it to such a degree that we cast off restraint in order to 'taste' the DESIRE.
Have you ever heard the saying: "I could just taste it" by someone who was just LOOKING
Sin by UNBELIEF occurs when the word has no place in our heart and we just scoff at "It is written."
Mark 6:4-6
But Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own country, among his own relatives, and in his own house.”
5Now He could do no mighty work there, except that He laid His hands on a few sick people and healed them.
And He marveled because of their unbelief.
Two different mechanisms of sin yet BOTH yield to Death via disobedience.
'deceive' from Genesis 3:13
(hiš·šî·’a·nî)
Verb - Hifil - Perfect - third person masculine singular | first person common singular
Strong's Hebrew 5377: 1) to beguile, deceive 1a) (Niphal) to be beguiled 1b) (Hiphil) to beguile, deceive 1c) (Qal) utterly (infinitive)
unbelief = 1 Timothy 1:13 "although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
[and] unbelief,
ἀπιστίᾳ (apistia)
Noun - Dative Feminine Singular
Strong's Greek 570: Unbelief, unfaithfulness, distrust. From apistos; faithlessness, i.e. disbelief, or unfaithfulness.
Now i AGREE with you that unbelief was working there as well but it was the DESIRE and satans power to DECEIVE that overwhelmed Eve.
God wants us to see that the DESIRE will be the undoing of many when the Antichrist SELLS the Final LIE.
The Apostle John KNEW this and thus he connected the Garden account with the Antichrist.
15Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 17And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
18Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.
A quick note: Paul's unbelief came from his religion.
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Wilber
Active member
I think the key word there is "practice" If we just continue on in sin and don't confess it and ask for forgiveness we are probably not of the truth.
As you know 1John chapter 1 says that we do sin. And that if we say we don't we're calling God a liar.
But then comes the really good part in 1John chapter 2
MY LITTLE children, I write you these things so that you may not violate God’s law and sin. But if anyone should sin, we have an Advocate (One Who will intercede for us) with the Father.
Jesus our defense attorney could say in our behalf to the Father "yeah that Wilbur guy, he occasionally blows it but I died for him he's mine. I paid the price for his sin with my blood."
Jesus came into this world for the purpose of seeking and saving sinners Luke 19:10
It is His blood that washes away sin Revelation 1:5
GeneZ
Well-known member
I had to learn the understanding of what is called "positional truth" vs what is called "experiential truth."
Positional truth. God's perspective. We accept this kind of truth 'by faith.'
Jesus as God sees the future, past, and present as all fulfilled.
He speaks of what is to be for us, as if its already having happened.
What Jesus did on the Cross? Sealed Satan's inescapable defeat....
We do not at this time see what was defeated appearing as such.
That is why we must accept it "by faith."
We who walk in the Spirit and Truth before the angels are to reveal this reality...
..while we frustrate the ways of Devil's schemes ..
And.. The Resurrection?
That will end-once and for all - all silly arguments against Jesus having victory completed on the Cross..
For the Lord, right now?
He sees us now being seated with Him in heavenly places.
........... Having no sin, nor death, possible.
Its been Finished!
Time must be peeled away slowly to allow this truth to be laid bare before all eyes to see it with undeniable reality manifested.
And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,
which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed
it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public
spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it."
He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,
having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us,
which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed
it to the cross. Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public
spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it."
Colossians 2:13-15
Wilber
Active member
Exactly we're works in progress God's not finished with me yet
GeneZ
Well-known member
It was only marked one time. How is that possible?Hey...I resemble that remark.
Wilber
Active member
Kindness? “Kindness is not what you do, but who you are.”
Another diversion.
Which translates to ... I don't have an answer as to what that other law in the flesh is so I will list a whole load of scriptures that relate to holiness.
Nice try civic. This is exactly what I have received from the Church in general all my life. I ask specific questions and for the most part all I get is a "dance around".
Why don't you try being honest and just say you don't know.
GeneZ
Well-known member
All who believe in Jesus Christ are saved forever.
Then, after salvation?
We will become either 'a piece of work'.
Or, 'a work of peace'...
.
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