DavidTree
Well-known member
Absolutely, and please continue as we feast on Eternal Manna!
An honest inquiry into the nature of Christology by a Trinitarian
- Thread starter Diserner
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DavidTree
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Post 661 edited
Handaan
Active member
And all my dogs and horses are there waiting for me. Plus all my loved ones that have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and savior. My future is looking pretty bright.
Handaan
Active member
It tastes like chicken right?
DavidTree
Well-known member
"Corriander seed and honey" = Exodus 16:31
Handaan
Active member
Yeah buddy, Now we're talking.
He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself will be with them; he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away. Revelation 21:1-4
I'm loving everyone's responses here! Each and every one of your responses have opened up my mind more and more.
DavidTree
Well-known member
Fellowship in the Truth of His Word brings great Joy to all our hearts.
Thank you for sharing as well.
civic
Well-known member
We see these Mighty angelic beings in Genesis 3:24 protecting the tree of life- After He drove the man out, He placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.” Gen 3:24
We also see them in Isaiah 6 where the prophet is standing before the Son
John 12:41
These things Isaiah said, because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him
Isa 6:1-5
In the year of King, Uzziah's death, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. 2 Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one called out to another and said,
"Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of hosts,,
The whole earth is full of His glory."
4 And the foundations of the thresholds trembled at the voice of him who called out, while the temple was filling with smoke. 5 Then I said,
"Woe is me, for I am ruined!,
Because I am a man of unclean lips,
And I live among a people of unclean lips;,
For my eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts."
DavidTree
Well-known member
Very glad to see that you brought out the Garden of Eden - ty
DavidTree
Well-known member
Isa 6:1-5
In the year of King, Uzziah's death, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. 2 Seraphim stood above Him, each having six wings; with two he covered his face, and with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one called out to another and said,
Would this be the WORD that was God in the beginning???
John 1:18 - No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is Himself God and is at the Father’s side, has made Him known.
Is this a 'conundrum'??? = "No one has seen God at anytime - the WORD was God"
conundrum /kə-nŭn′drəm/
noun
- A riddle in which a fanciful question is answered by a pun.
- A paradoxical, insoluble, or difficult problem; a dilemma.
- A conceit; a device; a hoax.
civic
Well-known member
Yes He is identified as YHWH in many places in the O.T. and as we read in Isaiah 6, cf John 12:41
civic
Well-known member
John 12:41-42
These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him. We see that the Apostle John said that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus in Isaiah 6 for this was the one and only time Isaiah was in the presence of Yahweh.
In Romans 10:9-10, we see that Christians will confess that Jesus is Lord. The context through verse 13 clearly shows that Jesus is the Lord which all men must call on in order to be saved. Paul quotes from Joel 2:32 to make his point.Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved (verse 13). If you read Joel 2:32 one can see that Paul quoted from this verse. When we look at the OT passage salvation comes to those who call on the name of YHWH ie...the Divine name of Israel for God. Paul declares it is Jesus upon whom we must call on in order to be saved.
In Philippians 2:9-11, we read that Jesus has a name that is above every name that at His name every knee should bow and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Paul bases his statements on Isaiah 45:23, where we read (By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before Me every knee will bow; by Me every tongue will swear .In the context this is clearly YHWH speaking of Himself. He is the Lord who says there is no God apart from Me in verse 21.Paul does not hesitate in saying that every knee will bow to Jesus and every tongue will confess Jesus is YHWH.
It is an indisputable fact that Paul said God bestowed the Name “Yahweh” on Jesus because in Philippians 2: 9-11 he was quoting Isaiah 45: 21-24.
This is what Yahweh told Isaiah:
“And there is no other God besides Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none except Me. Turn to Me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself, the Word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness and will not turn back, that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance, they will say of Me, ‘Only in Yahweh are righteousness and strength.’ Men will come to Him and all who were angry with Him shall be put to shame.”
Isaiah 43: 11- Yahweh said that He is our only Savior- Even I Am Yahweh and there is no other Savior besides Me. This verse is very clear as to its meaning.
Luke attributes Is 40:3 to the ministry of John the Baptist. The context of Luke 3 makes this plainly evident. John the Baptist acknowledges his fulfillment of the Is 40:3, in that, "the voice of one crying in the wilderness" is his voice. John 1:23 makes this evident: " He (John the Baptist) said, “I am the voice of one crying out in the wilderness, ‘Make straight the way of the Lord,’ as the prophet Isaiah said.”"
We know who the messenger/preparer of the Lord/LORD is. But who is the Lord/LORD spoken of?
Given the fact that Luke is a synoptic narrative account of the Son of God, we should be inclined to assume the obvious; that the incarnate Son is the Lord/LORD. John the Baptist supports this notion, because in the same context that he attributes 40:3 to himself, he also attributes the identity of that Lord to the person of the incarnate Son of God. This is evident in Luke 3:16, John 1:26-27, 1:30, Matt 3:11, Mrk 1:7. Therefore all four gospel authors attribute the name YHWH to the incarnate Son of God.
We see that Yahweh is the Name God bestowed on Jesus and it is Yahweh which is the Name that is above every name and it is Yahweh to which every knee will bow. There is no mistaking that Paul declares in his epistles that Jesus is the Yahweh of the Hebrew Scriptures. Jesus is our Lord Yahweh in the New Testament as well as our Savior. These were the specific names that were Gods alone in the Old Testament.
hope this helps !!!
These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory, and he spoke of Him. We see that the Apostle John said that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus in Isaiah 6 for this was the one and only time Isaiah was in the presence of Yahweh.
In Romans 10:9-10, we see that Christians will confess that Jesus is Lord. The context through verse 13 clearly shows that Jesus is the Lord which all men must call on in order to be saved. Paul quotes from Joel 2:32 to make his point.Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved (verse 13). If you read Joel 2:32 one can see that Paul quoted from this verse. When we look at the OT passage salvation comes to those who call on the name of YHWH ie...the Divine name of Israel for God. Paul declares it is Jesus upon whom we must call on in order to be saved.
In Philippians 2:9-11, we read that Jesus has a name that is above every name that at His name every knee should bow and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Paul bases his statements on Isaiah 45:23, where we read (By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word that will not be revoked: Before Me every knee will bow; by Me every tongue will swear .In the context this is clearly YHWH speaking of Himself. He is the Lord who says there is no God apart from Me in verse 21.Paul does not hesitate in saying that every knee will bow to Jesus and every tongue will confess Jesus is YHWH.
It is an indisputable fact that Paul said God bestowed the Name “Yahweh” on Jesus because in Philippians 2: 9-11 he was quoting Isaiah 45: 21-24.
This is what Yahweh told Isaiah:
“And there is no other God besides Me, a righteous God and a Savior; there is none except Me. Turn to Me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself, the Word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness and will not turn back, that to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance, they will say of Me, ‘Only in Yahweh are righteousness and strength.’ Men will come to Him and all who were angry with Him shall be put to shame.”
Isaiah 43: 11- Yahweh said that He is our only Savior- Even I Am Yahweh and there is no other Savior besides Me. This verse is very clear as to its meaning.
Luke attributes Is 40:3 to the ministry of John the Baptist. The context of Luke 3 makes this plainly evident. John the Baptist acknowledges his fulfillment of the Is 40:3, in that, "the voice of one crying in the wilderness" is his voice. John 1:23 makes this evident: " He (John the Baptist) said, “I am the voice of one crying out in the wilderness, ‘Make straight the way of the Lord,’ as the prophet Isaiah said.”"
We know who the messenger/preparer of the Lord/LORD is. But who is the Lord/LORD spoken of?
Given the fact that Luke is a synoptic narrative account of the Son of God, we should be inclined to assume the obvious; that the incarnate Son is the Lord/LORD. John the Baptist supports this notion, because in the same context that he attributes 40:3 to himself, he also attributes the identity of that Lord to the person of the incarnate Son of God. This is evident in Luke 3:16, John 1:26-27, 1:30, Matt 3:11, Mrk 1:7. Therefore all four gospel authors attribute the name YHWH to the incarnate Son of God.
We see that Yahweh is the Name God bestowed on Jesus and it is Yahweh which is the Name that is above every name and it is Yahweh to which every knee will bow. There is no mistaking that Paul declares in his epistles that Jesus is the Yahweh of the Hebrew Scriptures. Jesus is our Lord Yahweh in the New Testament as well as our Savior. These were the specific names that were Gods alone in the Old Testament.
hope this helps !!!
DavidTree
Well-known member
Did you see this = Leviticus 26:11-12
11 And I set My tabernacle among you: and My Soul shall not abhor you.
12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.
John 1:14 - "The Word became flesh and made His dwelling among us. We have seen His glory, the glory of the one and only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."
made His dwelling
ἐσκήνωσεν (eskēnōsen)
Verb - Aorist Indicative Active - 3rd Person Singular
Strong's Greek 4637: To dwell as in a tent, encamp, have My Tabernacle. From skenos; to tent or encamp, i.e. to occupy or, to reside.
DavidTree
Well-known member
Acts 15:16
And with this the words of the prophets agree, just as it is written:
‘After this I will return
And will rebuild the tabernacle of David, which has fallen down;
I will rebuild its ruins,
And I will set it up;
So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord,
Even all the Gentiles who are called by My name,
Says the Lord who does all these things.’
“Known to God from eternity are all His works = "On the 7th Day God RESTED from His Works"
It has been 2,000 Years since the Temple was destroyed - so what is this tabernacle???
Answer: Acts 7:44-51 , Hebrews 3:1-6
Johann
Well-known member
1:14 "the Word became flesh" John is attacking the false doctrine of the Gnostics, who were attempting to merge Christianity with Greek pagan thought. Jesus was truly human and truly God (cf. 1 John 4:1-3) in fulfillment of the promise of Immanuel (cf. Isa. 7:14). God took up residence as a man among fallen mankind (literally, "pitched His tent"). The term "flesh" in John never refers to the sin nature as in Paul's writings.
"dwelt among us"
Literally, this is "took up residence." It had a Jewish background from the wilderness wandering period and the Tabernacle (cf. Rev. 7:15; 21:3). The Jews later called this wilderness experience the "honeymoon period" between YHWH and Israel. God was never closer to Israel than during this period. The Jewish term for the special divine cloud that guided Israel during this period was "the Shekinah," the Hebrew term "to dwell with."
"we saw His glory"
The OT kabod (glory) has now been personified, incarnated. This refers to (1) something in Jesus' life such as the transfiguration or the ascension (i.e., apostolic testimony, cf. 2 Pet. 1:16-17) is or (2) the concept that the invisible YHWH is now visible and fully known. This is the same emphasis as 1 John 1:1-4, which is also an emphasis on the humanity of Jesus in opposition to the false Gnostic emphasis on the antagonistic relationship between spirit and matter.
In the OT the most common Hebrew word for "glory" (kabod, BDB 458 ) was originally a commercial term (which referred to a pair of scales), literally, "to be heavy." That which was heavy was valuable or had intrinsic worth. Often the concept of brightness was added to the word to express God's majesty (i.e., first on Mr. Sinai, the Shekinah cloud of glory, eschatological light, cf. Exod. 13:21-22; 24:17; Isa. 4:5; 60:1-2). He alone is worthy and honorable. He is too brilliant for fallen mankind to behold (cf. Exod. 33:17-23; Isa. 6:5). God can only be truly known through Christ (cf. John 1:14, 18; Col. 1:15; Heb. 1:3).
NASB, NKJV "glory as of the only begotten from the Father"
NRSV "the glory as of a father's only son"
TEV "The glory which he received as the Father's only Son"
NJB "the glory that is his as the only Son of the Father"
This term "only" (monogençs) means "unique," "one of a kind" (cf. John 3:16,18; 1 John 4:9, see F. F. Bruce, Answers to Questions, pp. 24-25). The Vulgate translated it "only begotten" and, unfortunately, the older English translations followed this (cf. Luke 7:12; 8:42; 9:38; Heb. 11:17). The focus is on singularity and uniqueness, not sexual generation.
"Father"
The OT introduces the intimate familial metaphor of God as Father.
1. the nation of Israel is often described as YHWH's "son" (cf. Hos. 11:1; Mal. 3:17)
2. even earlier in Deuteronomy the analogy of God as father is used (Deut. 1:31)
3. in Deuteronomy 32 Israel is called "his children" and God called "your Father"
4. this analogy is stated in Ps. 103:13 and developed in Ps. 68:5 (the father of orphans)
5. it was common in the prophets (cf. Isa. 1:2; 63:8; Israel as son, God as Father, 63:16; 64:8; Jer. 3:4,19; 31:9).
Jesus takes this analogy and deepens it into full family fellowship, especially in John 1:14,18; 2:16; 3:35; 4:21,23; 5:17, 18,19,20,21,22,23,26,36,37,43,45; 6:27,32,37,44,45,46,57; 8:16,19,27,28,38,42,49,54; 10:15,17,18, 25,29,30,32, 36 37,38; 11:41;12:26,27,28,49,50; 13:1; 14:2,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,16,20,21,23,24,26,28,31; 15:1,8,9,10,15,16,23,24,26; 16:3,10,15,17 ,23,25,26,27,28,32; 17:1,5,11,21,24,25; 18:11; 20:17,21!
"full of grace and truth"
This coupling follows the OT terms hesed (covenant love and loyalty) and emeth (trustworthiness) which are used and expanded in Exod. 34:6; Neh. 9:17; Ps. 103:8, both words occur together in Pro. 16:6. This describes Jesus' character (cf. John 1:17) in OT covenantal terms. See Special Topic on Truth at John 6:55 and 17:3.
1:15 "for He existed before me"
This is John the Baptist's doctrine of strong affirmation of Jesus' pre-existence (cf. John 1:1; 8:56-59; 16:28; 17:5; 2 Cor. 8:9; Phil. 2:6-7; Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3; 10:5-8). The doctrines of pre-existence and predictive prophecy affirm that there is a God above and beyond history, yet who works within history. It is an integral part of a Christian/biblical world view.
Utley.
Diserner
Well-known member
Couple reasons why this is wrong.
Natural bodily desires are not said to be sinful in Scripture, only inordinate desires.
Works of the flesh extend beyond mere physical appetites, things such as sorcery, witchcraft, jealousy, etc.
When's the last time people were hungry for some sorcery?
Calling the physical body itself evil is a hallmark of Gnosticism.
Diserner
Well-known member
Contrasting: It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (1 Cor. 15:44 NKJ)
Indeterminate: whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows (2 Cor. 12:2 NKJ)
Diserner
Well-known member
I would agree with this, and the 100% man has to be created by definition.
This is incorrect. We can see that Persons can transfer between bodies and forms.
Sure you can, your personhood is just transferred.
DavidTree
Well-known member
ALL GOOD
This statement : "the 100% man has to be created by definition."
Needs a little adjustment as it pertains to Christ
His physical body was 100% man - not His Soul and Spirit
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