Diserner
Well-known member
Now you are cutting up his humanity like a zombie brother.
He was not Frankencarnated.
An honest inquiry into the nature of Christology by a Trinitarian
- Thread starter Diserner
- Start date
Now you are cutting up his humanity like a zombie brother.
He was not Frankencarnated.
Rockson
Well-known member
So we're talking abut the context about how a word is used. Is flesh in scripture always speaking of the actual flesh and blood? I'd suggest not. Here's why. When Paul states in his flesh dwells no good thing that would mean we're to believe our physical body is evil.
One could consider the physical body creates impulses to spike us into temptation of physicals things we could say inappropriate sex, over indulgence of physical food....being gluttony.....but how can one apply physical flesh with being guilty of sins like strife....unforgiveness or other destructive, non positive things?
I think all will still know and realize though that flesh isn't necessary meant to mean your physical body. Is everyone here truly signing on to the physical body is evil? Paul said in my flesh abides no good thing.....so are there no good thing that our physicals body giving impulse to our brain does? If we're going to say no good thing abides in the flesh and it has to mean physical flesh anything it does as a biological machine to protect us or do good.....well then.....it would not be good.
DavidTree
Well-known member
Please review Post #673 = God has a Soul
Diserner
Well-known member
Johann
Well-known member
Rom_6:12
Therefore -- A conclusion or summary of his (Paul's) train of reasoning. The result of all this is that sin is not be the way of life for the Christian.
do not let sin reign -- Sin is not to have dominion or rule in the life of one following Christ.
in your mortal body -- In you. Perhaps the apostles uses the word "mortal" here to remind them of the the tendency of the flesh to sin and give itself over to evil passions and desires (compare Rom_7:5, Rom_7:23; Rom_8:3, Rom_8:6).
that you should obey it -- Sin is not to be our "master" to be obeyed and ourselves made its slaves.
in its lusts -- The lusts, desires, passions of the "mortal body" are not to be the "masters" of those whose lives are dedicated to giving God glory.
1) "Let not sin therefore reign," (me oun Basileueto he hamartia) "Do not therefore permit sin to reign, have control, jurisdiction, or sit on the throne;" to take over or mar your influence as a Christian; Dethrone the old selfish, carnal disposition, that Christ may be enthroned in your life, Mar_8:34; Mar_8:37; 1Co_9:26-27; the devil is to be resisted, Jas_5:8-9.
2) "In your mortal body," (en to thneto humon somati) "In your mortal (deathly) bodies," to influence or control your carnal bodies and carnal desires; 1Co_6:19-20. The mortal body of every believer belongs to God and is to be controlled by the will of the Spirit in the child of God, 1Co_10:31.
3) "That ye should obey it in the lusts thereof;" (eis to hupakouein tais epithumiais autou) "To cause you all to obey the lusts of it," of sin inclination that exists in your mortal, dying bodies, Joh_6:16; Do not yield to obey the cravings of carnal lusts or let such rule over, or be king over your lives, Paul admonished. To deny or dethrone self and selfish lusts is God's call to the believer, Mat_16:24; Tit_2:11-12; 1Jn_2:15-17.
Thanks.
DavidTree
Well-known member
That i would agree with AND it proves the fact that only the Body of Jesus was 100% Man = "son of Man"
Since God has a Soul then His Soul was never created as HE was never created!
God did not need to create a 'soul' for JESUS since HE always had one!
Only the physical Body was created for God to dwell in = Leviticus 26:11-12 , John 1:14 , Hebrews 10:5
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DavidTree
Well-known member
TY,
That was where i was going as well.
AND, Death reigns in these physical bodies BUT our spirits are ALIVE thru New Birth of the Holy Spirit in us.
"We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body." - 2 Cor 4:10
The death of Jesus Body on the Cross signifies that it was condemned by the Father when Adam sinned = Genesis
The Resurrection of JESUS Body signifies that the "old man" has been put to death and a NEW MAN has RISEN in it's PLACE.
Now, i did NOT say that JESUS was the 'old man of sin' but that HE BORE the sins of the "old man" upon His Sinless Body on the Cross of DEATH.
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DavidTree
Well-known member
Post 686 edited with more info
Johann
Well-known member
Rom_6:12
Therefore -- A conclusion or summary of his (Paul's) train of reasoning. The result of all this is that sin is not be the way of life for the Christian.
do not let sin reign -- Sin is not to have dominion or rule in the life of one following Christ.
in your mortal body -- In you. Perhaps the apostles uses the word "mortal" here to remind them of the the tendency of the flesh to sin and give itself over to evil passions and desires (compare Rom_7:5, Rom_7:23; Rom_8:3, Rom_8:6).
that you should obey it -- Sin is not to be our "master" to be obeyed and ourselves made its slaves.
in its lusts -- The lusts, desires, passions of the "mortal body" are not to be the "masters" of those whose lives are dedicated to giving God glory.
1) "Let not sin therefore reign," (me oun Basileueto he hamartia) "Do not therefore permit sin to reign, have control, jurisdiction, or sit on the throne;" to take over or mar your influence as a Christian; Dethrone the old selfish, carnal disposition, that Christ may be enthroned in your life, Mar_8:34; Mar_8:37; 1Co_9:26-27; the devil is to be resisted, Jas_5:8-9.
2) "In your mortal body," (en to thneto humon somati) "In your mortal (deathly) bodies," to influence or control your carnal bodies and carnal desires; 1Co_6:19-20. The mortal body of every believer belongs to God and is to be controlled by the will of the Spirit in the child of God, 1Co_10:31.
3) "That ye should obey it in the lusts thereof;" (eis to hupakouein tais epithumiais autou) "To cause you all to obey the lusts of it," of sin inclination that exists in your mortal, dying bodies, Joh_6:16; Do not yield to obey the cravings of carnal lusts or let such rule over, or be king over your lives, Paul admonished. To deny or dethrone self and selfish lusts is God's call to the believer, Mat_16:24; Tit_2:11-12; 1Jn_2:15-17.
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Use the Scriptures @Rockson -that way we will stay on track and not just philosophizing
civic
Well-known member
Spiritual does not mean immaterial.
Philippians 3:20-21
For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ; 21who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.
NASB
Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who indwells you.
NASB
Believers bodies will be transformed from its current state which is corrupt, sinful mortal to a body like His which Incorruptible, Holy/Sinless and Immortal in the Resurrection as per 1 Cor 15, Romans 8:11, Phil 3:21.
And when we compare the above with Paul in these passages below we see that the body(soma) in the context is a real material body which is physical in the Resurrection but controlled completely by the Spirit in the afterlife.
pneumatikos: spiritual
Original Word: πνευματικός, ή, όν
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: pneumatikos
Phonetic Spelling: (pnyoo-mat-ik-os')
Definition: spiritual
Usage: spiritual.
Thayer’s Greek Lexicon- belonging to the Divine Spirit; Used 26 times in the N.T.
a. in reference to things; emanating from the Divine Spirit, or exhibiting its effects and so its character: χάρισμα, Romans 1:11; εὐλογία, Ephesians 1:3; σοφία καί σύνεσις πνευματικῇ (opposed to σοφία σαρκικῇ, 2 Corinthians 1:12; ψυχική, James 3:15), Colossians 1:9; ᾠδαί, divinely inspired, and so redolent of the Holy Spirit, Colossians 3:16; (Ephesians 5:19 Lachmann brackets); ὁ νόμος (opposed to a σάρκινος man), Romans 7:14; θυσίαι, tropically, the acts of a life dedicated to God and approved by him, due to the influence of the Holy Spirit (tacitly opposed to the sacrifices of an external worship), 1 Peter 2:5; equivalent to produced by the sole power of God himself without natural instrumeutality, supernatural, βρῶμα, πόμα, πέτρα, 1 Corinthians 10:3, 4 ((cf. 'Teaching' etc. 10, 3 [ET])); πνευματικά, thoughts, opinions, precepts, maxims, ascribable to the Holy Spirit working in the soul, 1 Corinthians 2:13 (on which see συγκρίνω, 1); τά πνευματικά, spirithal gifts — of the endowments called χαρίσματα (see χάρισμα), 1 Corinthians 12:1; 1 Corinthians 14:1; universally, the spiritual or heavenly blessings of the gospel, opposed to τά σαρκικά, Romans 15:27; (1 Corinthians 9:11).
b. in reference to persons; one who is filled with and governed by the Spirit of God: 1 Corinthians 2:15 (cf. ); (); ; Galatians 6:1; οἶκος πνευματικός, of a body of Christians (see οἶκος, 1 b. at the end), 1 Peter 2:5. (The word is not found in the O. T. (cf. Winers Grammar, § 34, 3).
Natural(psychikos) body
Spiritual(pneumatikos) body
1 Corinthians 15:44
it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
Below we see how Paul uses and contrasts the words natural (psychikos) and spiritual (pneumatikos) below;
1 Corinthians 2:14-16
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. 15 But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no man.
Paul is clearly contrasting the unsaved with the saved with the natural man and spiritual man. One is controlled by the natural or the flesh while the other is controlled by the spirit/spiritual- Holy Spirit. Just like in 1 Cor 15:44 where Paul is contrasting the natural body that is controlled by the flesh with the spiritual body that is controlled by the Spirit. Both are real physical bodies but the difference is one is controlled by the flesh which is carnal and the other is controlled by the Spirit and is spiritual. One has the appetites and desires of the flesh while the other has appetites and desires controlled by the Spirit. Hence a spiritual body is one that is controlled by the Spirit of God in the Resurrection.
Paul’s usage below of spiritual(pneumatikos) in 1 Corinthians 10 where he calls the rock, food and drink spiritual it does not mean an immaterial rock, food and drink but a real Rock, Manna and Water which were with the Israelites in the wilderness wanderings.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4
For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rockwhich followed them; and the rock was Christ.
Now Paul drives home the point of our new literal physical bodies below in heaven from the text in 2nd Cor 5 below;
2 Corinthians 5:1-5
For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands. 2 We grow weary in our present bodies, and we long to put on our heavenly bodieslike new clothing. 3 For we will put on heavenly bodies; we will not be spirits without bodies. 4 While we live in these earthly bodies, we groan and sigh, but it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothe us. Rather, we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life. 5 God himself has prepared us for this, and as a guarantee he has given us his Holy Spirit.
You see there is no bodiless spirit men in heaven unclothed (no body) but indeed with a heavenly body (like Jesus) has now in heaven which is flesh and bones like He said His Resurrected body was to His Disciples.
Spiritual is used to describe these physical things:
the spiritual man
he who is spiritual
the spiritual rock
the spiritual food
the spiritual drink
the spiritual songs
the spiritual house
the spiritual things
the spiritual body
hope this helps
DavidTree
Well-known member
I believe that the FATHER SON HOLY SPIRT are ECHAD
THEIR will(s) is ECHAD and is never individualistic as we perceive individualism.
Did not JESUS pray = "Not My will but Thy Will be done!"
Do we not see the manifestation of the Will of the Holy Spirit in Acts!
If the Holy Spirit were just a 'force' as jws believe = How then can a person blaspheme the Holy Spirit whereby the Judgment is eternal damnation?
Mark ch3
8“Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— 30because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”
Johann
Well-known member
When Paul says “spiritual” he doesn't mean immaterial. Platonists have often read this as a reference to an immaterial body, whatever that means. but Paul means a body enlivened, empowered, and transformed by God's Spirit. This is clear from his contrast in the same chapter between Adam and Christ.
Their WILL-is Echad-indissolubly ONE-this is where I will disagree with @dizerner.
Keep up the good work.
J.
Johann
Well-known member
Likewise, the Old Testament understanding of nephesh (the Hebrew word typically translated “soul”) is very different from Plato’s idea of the soul. It’s core meaning is simply organic life (the semantic range of the term includes other uses, but this is basic). This core meaning shows up in Genesis 2:7, where God creates the first man to be a “living soul” (that is, a living organism).
Paul on the Contrast of “Flesh” and “Spirit”
But doesn’t the Apostle Paul have a contrast between flesh and spirit? Isn’t this an anthropological dualism, a contrast between two parts of the person?
It is true that Pauline language about “flesh” and “Spirit” can sound dualistic. But when Paul uses “flesh” in the negative sense (note that he sometimes uses it positively) he means the power of corruption in the world and in human life, and does not mean the body per se. Likewise “Spirit” refers to the power of God to transform our lives, including our bodies at the resurrection. So “flesh” and “Spirit” are contrasted as two powers that can affect every dimension of life; they are not two realms or two parts of the human person. And they lead to two different ways of life.
Paul typically contrasts following the way of Christ (led by the Spirit) and following the values of this corrupted world. The key here is that God’s good world has been infected by sin (the world is not the way it was meant to be), so we need to resist the present order of things and follow Christ’s way. Since Christ’s way is a radical alternative to this world, it will involve denial and possibly even suffering.
But the ultimate result of suffering for Paul is glory—the resurrection and the age to come. The end point is the world redeemed from its corruption. So, while Paul is brutally honest about the real ethical and religious distinction between good and evil (which he sometimes terms spirit and flesh), he does not identify the created order with evil. Indeed, he affirms that creation will be redeemed.
“Soul” Is Not the Opposite of Body for Paul
Interestingly, “soul” (psyche) is never contrasted to the body in Paul.
Soul isn’t part of Paul’s typical anthropology. He doesn’t think of a human as body and soul; he does speak of the inner person and the outer person, which is more phenomenological, since we experience an inner and an outer of our life, but he doesn’t treat them as separable pieces of the person.
In one place (1 Thessalonians 5:23) Paul mentions spirit, soul, and body, meaning something like lock, stock, and barrel (he is not giving us his theoretical anthropology).
Beyond that, both the word “soul” (psyche) and the adjective “soulish” (psychikos) show up in Paul as value-laden terms. The latter is translated “natural” in English versions, and it tends to have a negative valuation. Let us look at two main examples of this Pauline usage.
“Soul” and “Soulish” in 1 Corinthians 15
The first example is from 1 Corinthians 15, which describes our present mortal/corruptible body as a psychikos (natural) body, in contrast to our future immortal resurrection body as a pneumatikos (spiritual) body. When Paul says “spiritual” he doesn’t mean immaterial. Platonists have often read this as a reference to an immaterial body, whatever that means. but Paul means a body enlivened, empowered, and transformed by God’s Spirit.
This is clear from his contrast in the same chapter between Adam and Christ. Drawing on Genesis 2, he says that Adam was created a living soul (we saw that “soul” in Hebrew usually means a living/breathing organism). So Adam is a psyche/soul. He does not have a soul. The point is he is a mortal organism.
But Paul says that Christ was raised a life-giving Spirit. Is Paul denying the bodily resurrection?
Not at all. He means that Christ’s resurrection, which came about by the vivifying power of God’s Spirit, has the potential to impart the same life to us also (this is a central theme in Paul’s letters)—both in the present (to enable us to live a new life) and in the future (when even our bodies will be redeemed).
But my main point in referencing 1 Corinthians 15 is that Paul contrasts not soul and body, but soul (mortality) and (God’s) Spirit (the power of new life). These are not two realms or two parts of the person, but our original human status (which is now corrupted by sin) and the transformation we can expect from the resurrection.
“Soulish” in 1 Corinthians 2:1-3:4
The second example requires us to go beyond most current English translations, back to the King James Version (KJV) or the American Standard Version (ASV), which are more literal (but the current translations are not wrong).
In 1 Corinthians 2:1-3:4 Paul addresses the wisdom of God (which is from the Spirit of God, and which we can’t grasp unless we have God’s Spirit) with the folly of the world. Here he contrasts “the Spirit who is from God” with the “spirit of the world” in 2:12.
Then Paul goes on to distinguish those who are spiritual (pneumatikos; 2:13, 15; 3:1), who have God’s Spirit, from 1) those who are psychikos (the “natural man” in KJV; 2:14) and from 2) those who are sarkinos (the “carnal man” in KJV; 3:1, 3).
When I heard this passage preached from the KJV (long, long ago), the distinction was made between being spiritual, natural, and carnal (three levels of spirituality, if you will).
Pretty much all modern translations now (correctly) identify psychikos (soulish/natural) with sarkinos (fleshly/carnal) and often translate them the same, sometimes with “unspiritual” or “natural.” They correctly treat soul and flesh as equivalent here.
So living according to the flesh means living as one who accepts the ordinary, fallen world (= soul) as normative (both flesh and soul are contrasted with living according to God’s Spirit). Living according to soul/flesh is equivalent to living according to the “spirit of the world” (2:12).
So while “soul” (psyche) can have a somewhat neutral value in reference to human mortality (which is our original, created status), the adjective “soulish” (psychikos) refers to our current mortal life, which is now fallen, and is thus an overwhelmingly negative term in Pauline theology.
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Diserner
Well-known member
Scripture clearly differentiates their will as not the same will.
Christ said to the Father, "not My will, but Yours be done."
Christ called the Father's will "not My will," clearly differentiating them.
civic
Well-known member
Yes the human and Divine will.
Johann
Well-known member
No, “three wills” is not a Biblical “pattern of sound words”, nor is it a Biblical doctrine. This is what the scriptures actually teach from Genesis to Revelation:
Job 23:13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
What God “desires” is that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of the Truth, and that is exactly what “He [ will] do”.
So God has “one mind” and one will, or “desire”, and not three. But that one “desire” is for every man to begin as a “vessel of … marred… clay… in the Potter’s hand” and then by going into and coming out of spiritual ‘Babylon, to begin to be converted into a spiritual being within that “earthen vessel”, which will, via a time of judgment and “dying daily” to the desires of this clay vessel, begin to be transformed through a resurrection from the spiritually dead, into a “new creature” which will at the time of “the redemption of the purchased possession”, be given a body of spirit.
Eph 1:11 In whom also [ Christ] we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own [ singular] will:
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest [ Greek, downpayment] of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
We have been given God’s spirit which we did not have by birth. It is but the downpayment of what we will be given at the time of “the redemption of the purchased possession” meaning the resurrection from the dead which precedes the millennial reign of Christ on this earth.
Here is how that is being accomplished in all in whom Christ truly dwells:
Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is [“daily” being, 1Co 15:31] crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
“Death has no more dominion over him” has nothing to do with not dying physically, as some falsely teach. We must all die to sin, and we must all relinquish these “clay vessels” because:
1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
So there is but one will of God, and “all things are being worked after that one will. It is through that one will that all men experience the exact same “one event”, and that “one event… to all” is a physical life which is first a sinful life, which of necessity must be judged of those sins, must repent of those sins, and must be “saved… yet so as by fire”.
Ecc 9:2 All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth, as he that feareth an oath.
Paul makes this same assertion is these words:
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 3:13 Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
So that is how we are being judged at this time… “yet so as by fire”.
1Pe 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
The answer to Peter’s question is given in Rev 20. Those who “obey not the gospel of God” will be judged later, in “the lake of fire” where they, too, will be “saved yet so as by… the lake of fire”.
I hope all these verses of scripture have served to make clear that God has just one will which involves several stages of “dying daily [ and] being conformed to the image of Christ”. That is the one “good, acceptable, and perfect will of God”.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
“Good, acceptable, and perfect” are all called the singular ” will of God”, not ‘wills of God’. It is God’s singular will to which we all must be “blinded [ by] the god of this world”, and that we “first bear the image of the earthy”, and afterward we will “bear the image of the heavenly”.
1Co 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 3:10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
I hope all these verses of scripture demonstrate that “[ God] is of one mind”, and that “one mind” wills that “all things come alike to all”, and that “there is one event to all” and that “one event is the judgment of God upon the kingdom of our beastly, self- righteous old man. I especially hope and pray that you are granted to understand that God’s judgments are mankind’s salvation, and that when any judgment by God is taking place, this is the fruit of that judgment:
Shalom.
Diserner
Well-known member
That's not what the verse says, Christ said he had one will, singular, and the Father had one will, singular.
Christ did not say "Not one of my wills, but your will be done."
Let's put aside volumes of human philosophy and stick with what the text tells us.
You are incorrect.
This is clearly what the verse says, it says Christ has one singular will, and the Father has one singular will.
Elsewhere we can also clearly see the Spirit's one singular will:
But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills. (1 Cor. 12:11 NKJ)
This is the most plain and straight forward reading of Scripture.
We get into trouble when we let people "explain us out of" the plain meaning by saying it "can't mean" what it means because of endless human philosophy and speculation.
Back to the Bible!
Rockson
Well-known member
And that's exactly what I'm saying. We can't just say all sins or "walking in the flesh" means or connects to physical flesh.
Johann
Well-known member
3) "Nevertheless not my will, but thine be done." (plen me to thelema mou alla to son ginestho) "However, let not my priority will but yours be done," occur or come to be, Psa_40:8; Joh_4:34; Joh_6:33; Heb_10:7; Mar_14:36.
of the book sê·p̄erכָּת֥וּב [it is] written kā·ṯūḇעָלָֽי׃ of me. ‘ā·lāy 8 לַֽעֲשֽׂוֹת־ To do la·‘ă·śō·wṯ-רְצוֹנְךָ֣ Your will, rə·ṣō·wn·ḵā
N-msc+2ms (BSB Morphology)
Noun - masculine singular construct
+ second person masculine singular
Lemma: רָצוֹן
Word: רְצוֹנְךָ֣
Transliteration: rə·ṣō·wn·ḵā
English: Your will,
H7522 (Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments)
H7522 רָצוֹן ratsown (raw-tsone') n-m.
רָצֹן ratson (raw-tsone')
delight (especially as shown).
[from H7521]
KJV: (be) acceptable(-ance, -ed), delight, desire, favour, (good) pleasure, (own, self, voluntary) will, as...(what) would.
N-ANS (BSB Morphology)
Noun - Accusative Neuter Singular
Lemma: θέλημα
Word: θέλημα
Transliteration: thelēma
English: will
G2307 (Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments)
G2307 θέλημα thelema (the'-lee-ma) n.
1. a determination (properly, the thing).
2. (actively) choice.
3. (specially) purpose, decree.
4. (abstractly) volition.
5. (passively) inclination.
[from the prolonged form of G2309]
KJV: desire, pleasure, will
Elegon Were saying οὖν oun therefore οἱ hoi the μαθηταὶ mathētai disciples πρὸς pros to ἀλλήλους, allēlous, one another, Μή Mē No τις tis one ἤνεγκεν ēnenken did bring αὐτῷ autō Him φαγεῖν; phagein; [anything] to eat? 34 Λέγει Legei Says αὐτοῖς autois to them ὁ ho - Ἰησοῦς, Iēsous, Jesus, Ἐμὸν Emon My βρῶμά brōma food ἐστιν estin is ἵνα hina that ποιήσω* poiēsō I should do τὸ to the θέλημα thelēma will τοῦ tou of the [One] πέμψαντός pempsantos having sent με, me, Me, καὶ kai and τελειώσω teleiōsō should finish αὐτοῦ autou of Him τὸ to the--
Echad-no differentiation.
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