An honest inquiry into the nature of Christology by a Trinitarian

[DavidTree]

If Adam didn't sin, he wouldn't have died either. I think you are assuming because the methodology was different between the formation of Adam's body and the preparing of Christ's body, it must mean they were made of different stuff. Both were earthly bodies.

AGREE =

If Adam didn't sin, he wouldn't have died either

 

[sawdust]

Care to elaborate and exegete the passage?

No, that's a pastor's job. I'm pointing you to where it says there is another law at work in our bodies that works against the law of our mind. Now unless you think our bodies run along the lines of some ethereal concepts, then whatever that law is, must be genetic.

 

[Johann]

Hello Brother - Please note that i said it was my OPINION.

Here are the scriptures:

John 10:17-18
“Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself.
I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

James 1:12-15
Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him. Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”; for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin.

Quick Note: No sin = no death =



TRUTH/FACT CHECK:
Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—

1 Cor 15:21 - For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive.


1 Cor 15:56 - The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law.

And Jesus tasted death-yes?

 

[GeneZ]

I think you can do it as a matter of fact I bet you're really good at it. What is your favorite topic if you don't mind my asking? I'm pretty new so I don't know what you're into.

My favorite topic is one that grabs my attention and having been prepared with study.

 

[Wilber]

Adam's body was made directly from the dust of the earth.

#1 - The LORD's body was made directly from the Holy Spirit overshadowing Mary.
#2 - Concerning the LORD's Body = Death ONLY can operate where sin has been committed is in the Body/Person.


Do we know, for a fact that JESUS body would of died without Him giving up the Spirit?

What i state here at this point is not biblical doctrine but only something to consider and muse over in the light of scripture when the LORD said:
1st - "Father into your hands I commit my Spirit" and HE gave up His Body to Death.
2nd - “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”

Conclusion: We will find out in Heaven, whether or not JESUS Body would of died had HE removed His Spirit from that Body.

My personal opinion is that because HE committed no sin, no death could come upon His body.

Thanks for sharing your personal opinion it's good food for thought.

#2 We know that Jesus didn't commit any sins, that he was without sin but without going into the whole PSA thing didn't he take on the sins of the world?

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him 2 Corinthians 5:21

And I've heard that those Roman soldiers were pretty good at what they did as far as executing people goes. So I'm thinking they would probably know if they had a dead body hanging there or not.

Most definitely interesting to think about

 

[DavidTree]

And Jesus tasted death-yes?

Jesus (Body) tasted death and since HE was residing in that Body HE experienced every level of PAIN and then SOME MORE in His SOUL.

WORD that was God -the SPIRIT, NEVER tasted Death because HE never SINNED

As you know, had JESUS committed sin HE would be in Hell and Satan would gain the THRONE.

 

[DavidTree]

Thanks for sharing your personal opinion it's good food for thought.

#2 We know that Jesus didn't commit any sins, that he was without sin but without going into the whole PSA thing didn't he take on the sins of the world?

For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him 2 Corinthians 5:21

And I've heard that those Roman soldiers were pretty good at what they did as far as executing people goes. So I'm thinking they would probably know if they had a dead body hanging there or not.

Most definitely interesting to think about

YES, JESUS took the sins of the world AND the Curses of the Law ONLY upon His Body to the Cross but NEVER in His SPIRIT.

Colossians ch2
And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
The Sins of the WORLD along with the Curses/Judgments of the Law HE nailed it to the CROSS with His SINLESS BODY.

Hebrews ch10
5Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

 

[Wilber]

My favorite topic is one that grabs my attention and having been prepared with study.

It be cool if you'd share it with Us. I'm sure we could all learn something. But you don't have one right at the moment? My favorite topic is one I started 25 years ago And I'm still studying it. It's what led me to get into apologetics.

 

[Wilber]

YES, JESUS took the sins of the world AND the Curses of the Law ONLY upon His Body to the Cross but NEVER in His SPIRIT.

Colossians ch2
And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14having wiped out the https://biblehub.com/nkjv/colossians/2.htm#footnoteshandwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.
The Sins of the WORLD along with the Curses/Judgments of the Law HE nailed it to the CROSS with His SINLESS BODY.
5Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:

“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
7Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’ ”

Jesus is so awesome, We don't deserve him.

 

[DavidTree]

Jesus is so awesome, We don't deserve him.

You are so RIGHT Brother

 

[Johann]

Jesus (Body) tasted death and since HE was residing in that Body HE experienced every level of PAIN and then SOME MORE in His SOUL.

JESUS, WORD the SPIRIT, NEVER tasted Death because HE never SINNED

Yes brother-we cannot pry into a mystery-Isaiah 53 is pretty graphic.
Johann.

 

[civic]

Romans 7 mate. Another law at work in the flesh. A law that God did not put there. You're born with it.

Verse ???

 

[Johann]

It be cool if you'd share it with Us. I'm sure we could all learn something. But you don't have one right at the moment? My favorite topic is one I started 25 years ago And I'm still studying it. It's what led me to get into apologetics.

What is your favorite topic that led you into apologetics brother.
I made a study on Isaiah 53 that led me to apologetics and hermeneutical studies.
Jesus is worthy of our highest eulogies.
J.

 

[DavidTree]

Yes brother-we cannot pry into a mystery-Isaiah 53 is pretty graphic.
Johann.

There is a difference between the Soul and the Spirit

JESUS suffered the Penalty of Sin in His Body and HE suffered in His Soul but NEVER in His SPIRIT.

Isaiah chapter 53 expresses the suffering of the LORD in Body and Soul only.

 

[civic]

Sin natures are everywhere. Gaslighting is another trait.

there is no sin nature prior to sinning willfully.

 

[sawdust]

Verse ???

Romans 7:23
23 But I see a different law in my members waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that is in my members.

Your body wages war against your mind. Your body is governed by the laws of physics. Your mind is governed by your human nature which was created in the image of God. Problem is, as soon as God imputes our soul into these corrupted bodies? We are in deep doo da. Apart from the sin nature tempting us to be self serving, we are also dead to knowing God and without any capacity to know Him. That is the body of death we are born into.

 

[DavidTree]

It be cool if you'd share it with Us. I'm sure we could all learn something. But you don't have one right at the moment? My favorite topic is one I started 25 years ago And I'm still studying it. It's what led me to get into apologetics.

What is the Topic you have been studying?

 

[GeneZ]

It be cool if you'd share it with Us. I'm sure we could all learn something. But you don't have one right at the moment? My favorite topic is one I started 25 years ago And I'm still studying it. It's what led me to get into apologetics.

I do not have one favorite topic.
My favorite topic is any one that grabs my attention and having been prepared with study.


I look at the soil before I plant....

Some of the %^&* beliefs certain believers express can make for good fertilizer.

And, sometimes, the soil simply reveals it can not support growth.......
Then, you do not plant....

 

[Brakelite]

In what manner could the Son be "begotten' when it states all things ever been created were created through Him?

In other words? He would have to pre-exist Himself if the Soul of the Son were created.... !
Because, to create it? he would have to exist at its creation!

Not so for the Son.... Who was begotten before time ever was created.

Eternally Begotten.

The more and better we understand the meaning of the eternal essence of God?
The more easily it can be explained how Jesus' Soul was begotten eternally .... not, "created."

​

"Through him all things were made; without him nothing ​

was made that has been made." John 1:3​

For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, ​

visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; ​

all things have been created through him and for him." Colossians 1:16​

For those who claim that God created the soul of Jesus at the point of the Incarnation?
He would have needed to exist as Jesus, before He could be created to be Jesus.

The Soul of Jesus (not his human body) was eternally existing in the essence of God.
Philippians 2:6

​

Christ himself was like God in everything. He was equal with God. ​

But he did not think that being equal with God was something to ​

be held on to."​

God always knew some would understand...... And, others not.

That is why He has truth taught before all, knowing that not all would have
made the right choices to be made able to understand....

Cheers! To the power of God's Grace!


..............

What is the soul? From scripture please.

 

[Brakelite]

Maybe its been my mistake trying to post in this forum...

I liken the begotten nature of the Son as is described in Daniel 2. Not sure whether the holy Spirit intended this passage as a direct metaphor, aside from its obvious prophetic implications, but I believe it fits...

KJV Daniel 2:31-35
31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.
32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

The stone cut out of a greater than itself, but of the same material. But with human hand, therefore divine. The Son, brought forth of the Father, of the exact same nature, of eternal origins like the Father, but being begotten in personality to an independent beginning of His own. One with the Father in nature and divine attributes, but independent in personality. Established and begotten as a literal Son to be King of His own kingdom, eventually to destroy the false fake vain to driven efforts of man to be immortal, and be the only source of life and immortality anywhere, with the earth destined to become the capital of the universe.