An honest inquiry into the nature of Christology by a Trinitarian

[praise_yeshua]

This was a good lol - thank you

You repeated the same claim several times without anything more than an assertion that you are right.

I asked you to define the differences between English words and you just double down. I don't see anything laughable about any of it.

 

[DavidTree]

You repeated the same claim several times without anything more than an assertion that you are right.

I asked you to define the differences between English words and you just double down. I don't see anything laughable about any of it.

i only point to the scriptures.

How can we move forward if you want to assert the word "unbelief" into the scripture(Gen ch3 , 1 Tim 2:14) where it is not stated???

Following the Love of Christ, i asked you to find any scripture that states "Eve sinned thru unbelief" and to please post it.

That is what Christ did when He walked this earth and i intend to follow that Path of Love.

If you find that scripture then we can AGREE together on our FATHER'S words and we can ignore man's presuppositions.

Are we not commanded to have fervent love for one another?

If we deny His word, is that loving God and each other?

 

[GeneZ]

Jesus never mocked scripture.

But some people mocked the Scripture Jesus presented...

His Apostles never mocked scripture.

Setting me up for a fall, are you?

We are living at the very end of this age where 'christianity' is operating as a popularity contest.

The majority of christians today are fully persuaded by their religious upbringing and place that above God's words more often then not.

What if their religious upbringing is legalistic?

One who is led by the Holy Spirit knows the difference as we trust completely in "every word that proceeds from the Mouth of God".

This is the state of christianity today - 2 Timothy 4:3

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables."

The BIG FABLE that most have bought hook, line and sinker is pre-trib rapture.

I see.... you have run out of ammo, and now want to divert away to arguing over the Rapture?

Let it go on record that David Tree sees the Rapture understanding as a lie..

<sigh>

 

[praise_yeshua]

i only point to the scriptures.

How can we move forward if you want to assert the word "unbelief" into the scripture(Gen ch3 , 1 Tim 2:14) where it is not stated???

Following the Love of Christ, i asked you to find any scripture that states "Eve sinned thru unbelief" and to please post it.

That is what Christ did when He walked this earth and i intend to follow that Path of Love.

If you find that scripture then we can AGREE together on our FATHER'S words and we can ignore man's presuppositions.

Are we not commanded to have fervent love for one another?

If we deny His word, is that loving God and each other?

I'm going to go slow for you. Please pay attention. This isn't rocket science.

I have gave you examples of where Paul said his sin was because of unbelief and he did such "ignorantly in unbelief".

Eve said that God has told THEM not to eat of the tree. Eve knew what God said and she ignored it. She believed what the serpent said and she "saw the fruit" that is was "good".

Are you still with me?.....

There are reasonS why Eve did what she did... however, they lead to her being deceived. There is deception involved when it comes to ignorance that leads to unbelief.

Tell you what... lead someone to edge of the fiery pits of hell and ask them if they believe in hell? What do you expect to learn from such?

Tell someone about something they haven't experienced THEMSELVES.... and what happens? They don't believe you they see it/experience it for themselves. It is not that Eve didn't know what God said. She did. She just didn't believe what she was told. A counter narrative lead her to choose a the narrative that the serpent "sold to her". That God had "ulterior motives".

It is my belief that Adam had already dealt with the serpent before. I can't prove it but I believe Adam had already been tempted to sin before this.

However, tell me.....

Doesn't the Scriptures say "whatsoever is not of faith".... is what? SIN....

Sin is many different things but it is almost always wrapped in unbelief.

The exception is that Adam was not deceived. We know Adam wasn't. Eve was. Innocence. He knew what he was getting into. He did what he did to save Eve. It is a type of unwavering love for a sinner in the very act of Adam. Adam became what Eve had caused in her own life.

Accept it or not. Make your choice.

However, don't be so ignorant as to ignore the facts before you because you insist on creating a distinct between sin and unbelief. Whatsoever that is not of faith is what?

Don't be this way.

 

[GeneZ]

David. God says that He sent His only begotten Son into the world. The logical and obvious conclusion one must make is that God had a Son to send

In what manner could the Son be "begotten' when it states all things ever been created were created through Him?

In other words? He would have to pre-exist Himself if the Soul of the Son were created.... !
Because, to create it? he would have to exist at its creation!

Not so for the Son.... Who was begotten before time ever was created.

Eternally Begotten.

The more and better we understand the meaning of the eternal essence of God?
The more easily it can be explained how Jesus' Soul was begotten eternally .... not, "created."

​

"Through him all things were made; without him nothing
was made that has been made." John 1:3​

For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth,
visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities;
all things have been created through him and for him." Colossians 1:16​

For those who claim that God created the soul of Jesus at the point of the Incarnation?
He would have needed to exist as Jesus, before He could be created to be Jesus.

The Soul of Jesus (not his human body) was eternally existing in the essence of God.
Philippians 2:6

​

Christ himself was like God in everything. He was equal with God. ​

But he did not think that being equal with God was something to ​

be held on to."​

God always knew some would understand...... And, others not.

That is why He has truth taught before all, knowing that not all would have
made the right choices to be made able to understand....

Cheers! To the power of God's Grace!


..............

 

[civic]

In what manner could the Son be "begotten' when it states all things ever been created were created through Him?

In other words? He would have to pre-exist Himself if the Soul of the Son were created.... !
Because, to create it? he would have to exist at its creation!

Not so for the Son.... Who was begotten before time ever was created.

Eternally Begotten.

The more and better we understand the meaning of the eternal essence of God?
The more easily it can be explained how Jesus' Soul was begotten eternally .... not, "created."

​

"Through him all things were made; without him nothing ​

was made that has been made." John 1:3​

For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, ​

visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; ​

all things have been created through him and for him." Colossians 1:16​

For those who claim that God created the soul of Jesus at the point of the Incarnation?
He would have needed to exist as Jesus, before He could be created to be Jesus.

The Soul of Jesus (not his human body) was eternally existing in the essence of God.
Philippians 2:6

​

Christ himself was like God in everything. He was equal with God. ​

But he did not think that being equal with God was something to ​

be held on to."​

God always knew some would understand...... And, others not.

That is why He has truth taught before all, knowing that not all would have
made the right choices to be made able to understand....

Cheers! To the power of God's Grace!


..............

Find eternal begotten in the Bible

 

[DavidTree]

But some people mocked the Scripture Jesus presented...


Setting me up for a fall, are you?



What if their religious upbringing is legalistic?


I see.... you have run out of ammo, and now want to divert away to arguing over the Rapture?

Let it go on record that David Tree sees the Rapture understanding as a lie..

<sigh>

Pre-trib rapture is a LIE

The Rapture is TRUTH= 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Let it be on record that i prophesied by the Holy Spirit in the beginning of 2023 that there will be no pre-trib rapture in 2023.

Let it be on record that by the Holy Spirit of Truth, there will be no pre-trib rapture in 2024.

Let it be on record that i believe the Prophecy of my LORD Jesus Christ who says:
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Let it be on record that i believe the words of the LORD'S Apostles who prophesied saying:

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

 

[GeneZ]

Find eternal begotten in the Bible

You find it in the Greek Bible. Not your English translations unless the translator was providing such information.

Two good translations to see what I speak of?

The Kenneth Wuest NT translation.
https://www.christianbook.com/the-new-testament-an-expanded-translation/9780802808820/pd/1229

The Williams NT Translation.....

The Williams New Testament

With such a gigantic library that you have?
You do not have those on your shelves???

I have less books in my library, but I have those two I mentioned.

Its good to finally know about...

 

[GeneZ]

AGREE

Let it be on record that i prophesied by the Holy Spirit in the beginning of 2023 that there will be no pre-trib rapture in 2023.

Let it be on record that by the Holy Spirit of Truth, there will be no pre-trib rapture in 2024.

Let it be on record that i believe the Prophecy of my LORD Jesus Christ who says:
“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other."

Let it be on record that i believe the words of the LORD'S Apostles who prophesied saying:

Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

On Ignore.

Others reading your post will see why its a good idea....

 

[DavidTree]

I'm going to go slow for you. Please pay attention. This isn't rocket science.

I have gave you examples of where Paul said his sin was because of unbelief and he did such "ignorantly in unbelief".

Eve said that God has told THEM not to eat of the tree. Eve knew what God said and she ignored it. She believed what the serpent said and she "saw the fruit" that is was "good".

Are you still with me?.....

There are reasonS why Eve did what she did... however, they lead to her being deceived. There is deception involved when it comes to ignorance that leads to unbelief.

Tell you what... lead someone to edge of the fiery pits of hell and ask them if they believe in hell? What do you expect to learn from such?

Tell someone about something they haven't experienced THEMSELVES.... and what happens? They don't believe you they see it/experience it for themselves. It is not that Eve didn't know what God said. She did. She just didn't believe what she was told. A counter narrative lead her to choose a the narrative that the serpent "sold to her". That God had "ulterior motives".

It is my belief that Adam had already dealt with the serpent before. I can't prove it but I believe Adam had already been tempted to sin before this.

However, tell me.....

Doesn't the Scriptures say "whatsoever is not of faith".... is what? SIN....

Sin is many different things but it is almost always wrapped in unbelief.

The exception is that Adam was not deceived. We know Adam wasn't. Eve was. Innocence. He knew what he was getting into. He did what he did to save Eve. It is a type of unwavering love for a sinner in the very act of Adam. Adam became what Eve had caused in her own life.

Accept it or not. Make your choice.

However, don't be so ignorant as to ignore the facts before you because you insist on creating a distinct between sin and unbelief. Whatsoever that is not of faith is what?

Don't be this way.

@praise_yeshua says: "It is my belief that Adam had already dealt with the serpent before. I can't prove it but."...................you want @DavidTree to follow your thinking!

WOW

However, don't be so ignorant as to ignore the facts before you because you insist on creating a distinct between sin and unbelief.

Love at it's finest, especially when you falsely accuse!

 

[sawdust]

And male passivity lives on as our number one weakness.

That is not being passive, it is being deceitful.

 

[GeneZ]

Find eternal begotten in the Bible

Philippians 2:6


{Christ in Eternity Past then the Hypostatic Union as He is today in Heaven and always will be}

Who {Christ}, though He eternally existed in the essence of God,​

He did not think equalities {plural} with God​

a gain to be seized {means to violently take}​

and held {so that the Father's plan would not be neutralized}.​

Find some objective honest believer who is skilled in Greek to confirm what that says "eternally existed."

 

[GeneZ]

Nice change in subject.

Going to steal that technique?

 

[civic]

You find it in the Greek Bible. Not your English translations unless the translator was providing such information.

Two good translations to see what I speak of?

The Kenneth Wuest NT translation.
https://www.christianbook.com/the-new-testament-an-expanded-translation/9780802808820/pd/1229

The Williams NT Translation.....

The Williams New Testament

With such a gigantic library that you have?
You do not have those on your shelves???

I have less books in my library, but I have those two I mentioned.

Its good to finally know about...

It’s an oxymoron

He is the Eternal Son not eternally begotten

 

[civic]

Philippians 2:6


{Christ in Eternity Past then the Hypostatic Union as He is today in Heaven and always will be}

Who {Christ}, though He eternally existed in the essence of God,​

He did not think equalities {plural} with God​

a gain to be seized {means to violently take}​

and held {so that the Father's plan would not be neutralized}.​

Find some objective honest believer who is skilled in Greek to confirm what that says "eternally existed."

Like I said it’s unbiblical

Nice try though

 

[GeneZ]

It’s an oxymoron

He is the Eternal Son not eternally begotten

If Soul essence is not Deity? And, its not.

To not be begotten?
Would mean his Soul would have to be Deity in essence, and a "soul" in name only.

The Nicene Creed makes that known. "Not created. Begotten. "

Evidently, there was a great deal of study from the original languages to deduce that part of the creed.

But? As far as I have been able to find, they never explained how they made that conclusion.
That is why I am not a big fan of creeds that only slice off conclusions and put it on your plate.

But, forgive me. I will concede. You know all there is to know.....

 

[civic]

If Soul essence is not Deity? And, its not.

To not be begotten?
Would mean his Soul would have to be Deity in essence, and a "soul" in name only.

The Nicene Creed makes that known. "Not created. Begotten. "

Evidently, there was a great deal of study from the original languages to deduce that part of the creed.

But? As far as I have been able to find, they never explained how they made that conclusion.
That is why I am not a big fan of creeds that only slice off conclusions and put it on your plate.

But, forgive me. I will concede. You know all there is to know.....

You cannot prove or disprove if God has a soul that it’s not Deity. The soul like spirit is immaterial.

You would be making a philosophical argument at best.

 

[GeneZ]

Like I said it’s unbiblical

Nice try though

I wonder why you are trying to make me feel like I'm Luther standing before the Diet (council) of Worms....

Just maybe... you are only trying to "bait" me...

Too bad.. You could have learned something you have not yet thought of..

But. that's ok.

 

[civic]

I wonder why you are trying to make me feel like I'm Luther standing before the Diet (council) of Worms....

Just maybe... you are only trying to "bait" me...

Too bad.. You could have learned something you have not yet thought of..

But. that's ok.

Teach me in teachable, a student

 

[DavidTree]

You cannot prove or disprove if God has a soul that it’s not Deity. The soul like spirit is immaterial.

You would be making a philosophical argument at best.

The Soul of Jesus is as much Deity as He Himself IS.

His flesh was deity only in this perspective = his Body was Divinely Begotten = being formed without sin

Leviticus 26:11
For I will look on you favorably and make you fruitful, multiply you and confirm My covenant with you.
You shall eat the old harvest, and clear out the old because of the new.
I will set My tabernacle among you, and My soul shall not abhor you.
I will walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people.

Dwell on that!