An Article on free will

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yes. So @Eternally-Grateful is incorrect in thinking that there are 2 natures. There is only the human nature coupled with free will.

No, He is not incorrect.

Adam had a human nature. coupled with free will. He chose to sin (he did not have to)

when he sinned, He had the same human nature, that same free will. Only then he also had the old man, sin nature. where he could not do good.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Concerning this topic, call on me if people start giving you trouble for aligning yourself with the Bible.

I would suggest you start aligning with the bible before you start attacking others..

lets not be a hypocrite

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

We do not "work with God" in a co-equal sense as if we contribute autonomous power to divine acts.

Yet biblically and theologically, especially in missionary contexts and sanctification, Scripture permits the language of "working together"-where God's grace initiates and empowers, and man's response is required (Philippians 2:12–13: “work out your salvation... for it is God who works in you”).

Thus, properly qualified: We cooperate by response, obedience, and submission--not by originating or controlling divine action.

J.

so this is what saves us?

did the tax collector cooperate with God?

People need to let go of the calvinist effect.. and start reading the word.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Baptism is not the cause of the forgiveness of sin. It is the occasion, the time, in the life of the repentant believer when God forgives his sin and gives him the gift, the indwelling, of the Holy Spirit. It is the occasion, the time, in the life of the repentant believer when God justifies, regenerates and initially sanctifies him. It is when the repentant believer is born again of water and Spirit.

and it is spiritual.

The physical act of water baptism happens later. For me it was a year later.

 

[Jim]

This is not about my personal opinion--it is about what the Scriptures themselves declare. You have access to the same tools, and I have already carefully exegeted this passage according to the text. "Thy word is truth" (John 17:17), and that is the standard by which all claims must be tested. "Search the Scriptures..." (John 5:39).

My conclusions are grounded in the biblical record, not in speculation.

J.

I understand that you have carefully exegeted the passage. But even still, that in itself does not prove that you are correct.

When we say that God cannot lie, or sin, what does that really mean? I think it means that God would not lie or sin, not that there is some attribute of God preventing Him from doing either. He does everything by choice.

I think that the truth that Jesus was tempted but did not sin is an important message for all of us. It is a message that to sin is a choice. It means that Jesus is our perfect example as a human being. It does not mean that He wasn't really human after all.

If Jesus was not capable of sinning when He was tempted, then the fact that He didn't does nothing for me with respect to my temptations. It suggests that there are some sins that I cannot avoid.

 

[synergy]

No confusion about the word work
1. It is something we do of our own power.
2. It is done to gain something
3. It is what people do to prepair to run a race. to in the end, recieve a reward.

If it is done to earn keep or keep from losing salvation. Then it is not of grace it is of works..

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace;

There you go again taking Paul's verses about works of the Law and incorrectly saying that all works should be trashed. Not all works are works of the Law.

I already gave you Rom 2:7 where Paul does associate good works with eternal life. So there's no excuse to falsely depict Paul as despising all types of work.

 

[Jim]

My conclusions are grounded in the biblical record, not in speculation.

J.

That is what every commentarian will profess.

 

[Jim]

We have a human nature

We also have the old man (sin nature)

the old man was crucified when we came to christ.

But hey, if you want to keep fighting. Feel free.

Do you no longer have a sin nature? If so, then why do you, as we all know that you do, still sin?

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Well then, that must mean that absolutely everyone has been saved. If the one being saved has no part in salvation, then all must be saved.

Faith is said to not be a work. Jesus calls it his work. And we are told not of works lest anyone should boast.

so what did you do that you can take credit for saving yourself?

Receiving Him, believing in His name, is our part.

But you did not do this without Gods help. hence God gets the credit and can boast in saving you. Not you boast in saving yourself

That is not what John 1:10-13 says. It says that God gave you the power to become a child of God because you received Him, because you believed in Him.

Yes.

But you did not believe of your own power. You did not go from unbelief one second and being Gods enemy, to full repentance and full trust and faith in God the next.

Something happened.

Give the person who convinced you he was faithful and trustworthy and don't take credit for yourself.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

If what you say is true, why would Satan even bother with trying to tempt Jesus? Was Satan so stupid not to understand that? Or could you perhaps be incorrect in your view of it?

amen,

We can not be tempted unless we are able..

if we are not able. there can be no temptation

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

That entire argument has been postulated by the adherents of false doctrine of original sin and the even worse doctrine of total depravity. It is absolutely false.

Jesus was born free from sin just as was Adam, Eve and every other human being. Sin is not the result of the male sperm.

This is not a calvinist issue

I wish people would stop working on ISMS, and trying to defeat doctrines and just look to the word.

We are dead in God. We have the old man, The old man or sin nature was not present in adam until Adam sinned of his own free will.

 

[MTMattie]

I did not come to repentance on my own.

I did not come to faith on my own.

I did not conjure it up in myself.

Tell us, please, how you did. What were the circumstances that made you finally realize you believed ... AT LAST?
Was it sudden or did the realization come upon you slowly?

Did you perhaps have a vision or a dream?
Could it have been by hearing someone either by radio or TV and it clicked?
Was it perhaps some clergy?

Were you immediately aware that it was God who was making things happen and change in you?

You say "I did not come to faith on my own." and I truly want to know how you came to this life altering knowledge.

No faith = no salvation.

I agree 100% with this. No matter how one gets their faith in Jesus, without it they are doomed.

 

[synergy]

We have a human nature

We also have the old man (sin nature)

the old man was crucified when we came to christ.

But hey, if you want to keep fighting. Feel free.

Paul keeps fighting even after being saved. See below. So you're telling me that you know better than Paul?

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good.
22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death?
25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

 

[synergy]

I would suggest you start aligning with the bible before you start attacking others..

lets not be a hypocrite

You're once again projecting your faults to others.

 

[Johann]

That is what every commentarian will profess.

What is wrong--having a bad day?

Scripture affirms that Jesus was tempted κατὰ πάντα (in all ways) externally, yet remained χωρὶς ἁμαρτίας--free from sin’s principle or practice.

He was tempted as man yet could not sin as God. His divine nature, described as ἀπείραστος (James 1:13), cannot be tempted by evil, and His human nature was united to that divine Person, making internal sinfulness an impossibility.

Thus, He experienced the reality of temptation without any inward moral susceptibility.

4:15 "sympathize with our weakness" A. T. Robertson gives another possible alternative translation, "suffer with our weakness" (cf. Heb. 2:17-18). Jesus never had a sin nature and never yielded to sin, but He was exposed to true temptation because of mankind's sin.

"tempted" The term (peirazō) has the connotation of "to tempt with a view toward destruction" (cf. Heb. 2:18; 3:9; 11:37). It is a PERFECT PASSIVE PARTICIPLE, which emphasizes a finished state by means of an outside agent, such as the tempter. This term is a title for Satan ("the one tempting") in Matt. 4:3 (also notice Mark 1:13).

SPECIAL TOPIC: GREEK TERMS FOR TESTING AND THEIR CONNOTATIONS

SPECIAL TOPIC: PERSONAL EVIL

"in all things as we are yet without sin" Jesus is both fully God and fully human, and yet He understands us! However, He does not participate in fallen mankind's rebellion and independence from the Father (i.e., the innocent, sinless One, cf. Heb. 2:17-18; 7:26; Luke 23:41; John 8:46; 14:30; 2 Cor. 5:21; Phil. 2:7-8; 1 Pet. 1:19; 2:22; 3:18; 1 John 3:5).

HEBREWS 4

freebiblecommentary.org

Anything here you don't fully understand? Just leave the snide jabs aside, not interested.

J.

 

[MTMattie]

We are dead in God. We have the old man, The old man or sin nature was not present in adam until Adam sinned of his own free will.

Also. Was Adam's free will removed from future men? If he had it, and those who argue against it, was this a mistake God corrected for future generations?

I am sorry but I have forgotten if you are pro free will or totally against? Your commentaries seem to lean in both directions.

I am just a silly old woman and as such claim the right to ask what may seem like silly questions because I have never stopped
the longing to learn about every thing God/Jesus/Holy Spirit.

 

[Jim]

Faith is said to not be a work. Jesus calls it his work. And we are told not of works lest anyone should boast.

John 6:28 Then they said to him, "What must we do, to be doing the works of God?"
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent."

so what did you do that you can take credit for saving yourself?

When God saves one who believes, the believing is not saving him, it is God saving the on who met the condition of believing.

But you did not do this without Gods help. hence God gets the credit and can boast in saving you. Not you boast in saving yourself

God's help was primarily in providing His special revelation of His written word.

But you did not believe of your own power.

That power was built into the human being through the spirit formed in him by God.

You did not go from unbelief one second and being Gods enemy, to full repentance and full trust and faith in God the next.

For some it may well have. For others, it may have taken days, weeks, months or even years to reach that point.

But in all cases of salvation of an individual there was the instant in which the believer went from being a lost sinner to being an eternally alive saint.

Something happened.

What happened in every salvation event was the one being saved received Christ as the Son of the living God and believed in His name (John 1:12).

 

[Jim]

This is not a calvinist issue

I wish people would stop working on ISMS, and trying to defeat doctrines and just look to the word.

We are dead in God. We have the old man, The old man or sin nature was not present in adam until Adam sinned of his own free will.

Then why did Adam sin?

Why are we dead in God? Because Adam sinned? Ridiculous. Your old man was not present until you sinned.

 

[Jim]

What is wrong--having a bad day?

No, but I have read from a lot of commentarians. And guess what. They all will make the same declaration as you.

Scripture affirms that Jesus was tempted κατὰ πάντα (in all ways) externally, yet remained χωρὶς ἁμαρτίας--free from sin’s principle or practice.

He was tempted as man yet could not sin as God. His divine nature, described as ἀπείραστος (James 1:13), cannot be tempted by evil, and His human nature was united to that divine Person, making internal sinfulness an impossibility.

Thus, He experienced the reality of temptation without any inward moral susceptibility.

4:15 "sympathize with our weakness" A. T. Robertson gives another possible alternative translation, "suffer with our weakness" (cf. Heb. 2:17-18). Jesus never had a sin nature and never yielded to sin, but He was exposed to true temptation because of mankind's sin.

"tempted" The term (peirazō) has the connotation of "to tempt with a view toward destruction" (cf. Heb. 2:18; 3:9; 11:37). It is a PERFECT PASSIVE PARTICIPLE, which emphasizes a finished state by means of an outside agent, such as the tempter. This term is a title for Satan ("the one tempting") in Matt. 4:3 (also notice Mark 1:13).

SPECIAL TOPIC: GREEK TERMS FOR TESTING AND THEIR CONNOTATIONS

SPECIAL TOPIC: PERSONAL EVIL

"in all things as we are yet without sin" Jesus is both fully God and fully human, and yet He understands us! However, He does not participate in fallen mankind's rebellion and independence from the Father (i.e., the innocent, sinless One, cf. Heb. 2:17-18; 7:26; Luke 23:41; John 8:46; 14:30; 2 Cor. 5:21; Phil. 2:7-8; 1 Pet. 1:19; 2:22; 3:18; 1 John 3:5).

HEBREWS 4

freebiblecommentary.org

Anything here you don't fully understand? Just leave the snide jabs aside, not interested.

J.

All of that is just an attempt to justify your false belief in original sin.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

It was the Atonement that was finished. You didn't even exist at that time. How can a non-entity be saved at that time that does not even exist? Your imagination is flaring.

Yet the bible says I was predestined, God knew me.

Your right, the atonment was completed. Sin could no more condemn a person.

We are now under two possible positions.

Unbelief, if we are in this state, we are condemned

Belief, If we come to this state, at that moment when we call out to God we are saved forever. we have eternal life. we have Gods promise we will never perish..

do you have faith in this gospel truth?

It's only when you repent do your sins get nailed to the Cross.

Actually it was when I called out to God like the tax collector.

If we have not repented, we can not have faith. No faith no salvation. Paul and James agree on this issue

Nobody is saying that you save yourself on your own.

Really? I hear it all the time

That's a strawman. Our relationship is one of synergy. We believe (present active verb) and God saves us. Stop with the strawmen.

I am not talking about synergism or monergism, that was you..

There you go attacking falsly again.

I suggest you learn some humility

Notice that the word "justification" is nowhere to be found in the verse you quoted. That proves that we are not to seek justification from man but from God. That's where you go terribly wrong. That's why you refuse to follow up on your claims because deep inside you know your interpretation is wrong.

Of course justification is not there. Because it not about justification.

I am justified through faith by grace period. not of works lest anyone should boast.

That's why both James and Paul are perfectly synched in that Justification by God is by faith and faithful good works.

Paul rejects this notion.

The Bible is ripping apart your calvinist monergistic view of James.

I am not calvinist.. Again, Stop with your false accusations.

If you didn't repent then who did your repenting? God? Are you seriously saying that God repented for you?

Your not listening to a word I say. You are stuck in your ism, and unable to think clearly.

So you're ok with giving us a view of James and Paul that contradict each other.

No, You are.

Paul and james agree completely in my view.

You said Paul stands for "not faith and wirks".

Yes, paul was fighting legalism.. Hence why he showed in eph 2 titus 3 and romans 4 where no work is involved period.


Romans 4 and James 2 out of context totally contradict each other. Thats what you are causing

James stands for both faith and works. (James 2:24).

No.

He stands for faith. but he knows if one has true faith. they WILL DO the works Paul said they would do in eph 2: 10.

Which is why he is telling those who are hearers only not doers to investigate themselves.

do you have saving faith or not

You'd best revisit your teachings on how the principles of logic work and get back to me when you do. Until then, take care.

lol.. If you want to drown in legalism. I will let you

But I will not let you falsly accuse me, and reject pauls teachings