Allelujah

praise_yeshua

Active Member
Allelujah to Jesus Christ this Thanksgiving day.

The word Allelujah is a transliteration found in many Greek OT Psalms like Psalm 118. It begins Pslam 118 in praise to Jesus Christ. We know this because of the extensive use of the transliteration throughout the book of Revelation. The "book of the Lamb"

In honor of the ONLY "Person" worthy to open the book. I praise His name today. All Glory and Honor to our Lord.

Rev 5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

Rev 5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book,

What Unitarian will join me in praising the Lord Jesus Christ?

Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever

?
 
PTL all glory, honor, power, praise and worship to the Light of the world- the King of kings, Lord of lords.

Allelujah.

And all Gods children will sing:

Light of the world
You stepped down into darkness
Opened my eyes, let me see
Beauty that made this heart adore You
Hope of a life spent with You
Here I am to worship
Here I am to bow down
Here I am to say that You're my God
You're altogether lovely
Altogether worthy
Altogether wonderful to me
King of all days
Oh, so highly exalted
Glorious in heaven above
Humbly You came to the earth You created
All for love's sake became poor
Here I am to worship
Here I am to bow down
Here I am to say that You're my God
You're altogether lovely
Altogether worthy
Altogether wonderful to me
Well, I'll never know how much it cost
To see my sin upon that cross
Well, I'll never know how much it cost
To see my sin upon that cross
Well, I'll never know how much it cost
To see my sin upon that cross
Well, I'll never know how much it cost
To see my sin upon that cross

AMEN !!!!!!
 
The community, food, and blessings we enjoy come from the Father only, not a binity or trinity. Praise the Father for every good and perfect gift.

James 1
17Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, with whom there is no change or shifting shadow.
 
The community, food, and blessings we enjoy come from the Father only, not a binity or trinity. Praise the Father for every good and perfect gift.

James 1
17Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, with whom there is no change or shifting shadow.
Nice dodge we are not talking about gifts but worship, honor.

And BTW your solitary out of context verse does not overturn the PLETHORA of passages below declaring the glory/honor of Christ who was worshipped as God, declared to be God and identified Himself as God. Below is sound exegesis of the bible instead of your eisegesis of a solitary out of context verse.

The New Testament word for worship (proskuneo) means to do obeisance, reverence, or acts of homage (see Thayer, Vine, and Arndt & Gingrich). This word is often used to describe men worshiping God: John 4:20-24; Revelation 4:10, 7:11, 11:16, 14:7, 19:4, 15:4; 1 Corinthians 14:25.


Many verses forbid worshiping men, angels, or any created thing.


Acts 10:25, 26 - Cornelius fell down to worship Peter. Peter forbade it saying that he himself was just a man. God deserves worship, but men do not. (Cf. Acts 12:20-23, 14:8-18.)


Revelation 22:8, 9, 19:10 - John sought to worship the angel, but the angel forbade it because he was a "fellow servant." "Worship God."


Romans 1:25 - People who worship and serve created things, rather than the Creator, have left the truth of God.


To worship any created thing - whether man, angel, heavenly body, or some other object in nature (mountain, ocean, etc.) - constitutes idolatry.


Only the true God deserves to be worshipped.


Matthew 4:9, 10 - Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.


Revelation 9:20 - Idolatry is forbidden because it constitutes worship of someone other than God (Exodus 20:3-6; Deuteronomy 6:13-15; Revelation 14:9-11). [See also Exodus 34:14]


Note: proskunew is forbidden when used for obeisance to men from a spiritual or religious motivation or purpose. The word is sometimes (but rarely) used in the New Testament non-religiously to refer to bowing in obeisance to a king, master, or other person in authority (see Matthew 18:26 - this usage is more common in the Old Testament).


When used for religious honor, however, worship is forbidden toward any except God. In this sense, "worship" is like "lord," "father," "master," etc. The words may be acceptably used for earthly, physical relationships (Ephesians 6:1-9; Colossians 3:21, 22), but we are forbidden to use such as religious honor to men or created things (Matthew 23:8-12). [On Revelation 3:9, cf. to 1 Corinthians 14:25]


The concept of Deity distinguishes the Creator from the creature. Things which are created do not have the unique characteristics of God, do not do the unique works of God, and therefore should not be addressed by the unique names of God nor should they be worshipped.


But Jesus received the unique worship God deserves.


He was often worshipped while He appeared on earth before His resurrection.


Matthew 8:2 - A leper came and worshipped Jesus. [9:18; 15:25; Mark 5:6]


Matthew 14:33 - After Jesus had calmed the storm, the disciples worshipped Him saying He was the Son of God.


John 9:38 - After Jesus had healed the blind man, He revealed Himself to be the Son of God (v35). The man said he believed, and he worshipped Jesus.


Note that such religious worship would have been blasphemy and should have been forbidden as it was in the case of Peter, the angel, etc., if Jesus had been just a man on earth.


Created beings also worship Him after His resurrection.


Matthew 28:9, 17 - After His resurrection, His disciples worshipped Him. [Cf. John 20:28, 29]


Luke 24:52 - Even after He had ascended back to heaven, they worshipped Him.


Hebrews 1:6 - Angels are instructed by God to worship Jesus.


Note that men were rebuked for worshipping men, angels, or created beings, but they were never rebuked for worshipping Jesus. Angels are even instructed by the Father to worship Jesus. The context of the above passages cannot fit the idea of obeisance to an earthly king or ruler. They refer to honoring Jesus as a religious authority - the very thing forbidden when offered to Peter, angels, etc.


Hence, Jesus accepted worship as an act of religious honor. The Scriptures, including Jesus' own teachings, would absolutely forbid this unless He possesses true Deity.


B. Glory and Honor


"Glory" (doxa) means "...praise, honor ... magnificence, excellence, preeminence, dignity, grace ... majesty" - Grimm-Wilke-Thayer.


"Honor" (timh) means "...honor which belongs or is shown to one; the honor of one who outranks others, pre-eminence ... veneration ... deference, reverence..." - Grimm-Wilke-Thayer.


Like the words "power" and "wisdom," both these words can properly be used to refer to men in the physical realm (Matthew 6:29; 1 Peter 1:24). But they are also used to describe a special degree of glory which no one but God can possess.


God receives a special, unique glory and honor.


Psalm 24:7-10 - Jehovah is the "King of glory."


Psalm 29:3 - He is the "God of glory." [Acts 7:2; cf. Isaiah 60:19; Galatians 1:5; etc.]


Revelation 4:9-11 - God deserves this glory because He created all things. Note again the distinction between the creature and the Creator. [Revelation 5:13; Romans 11:36]


Isaiah 42:8, 48:11 - This glory is unique to God in that He refuses to share it with anyone else. Idols and created things have no right to receive this glory.


It follows that it would be blasphemy for anyone but God to receive this unique kind of glory. If anyone does receive this glory with God's approval, then that one must possess Deity.


But Jesus receives the unique glory of God.


John 5:23 - All men should honor the Son "just as" they honor the Father. To fail to give this honor to the Son is to fail to properly honor the Father.


"Just as" (kathos) is translated "even as" in KJV, ASV, NASB, RSV (cf. Thayer and Arndt & Gingrich). Other examples of its use in comparisons is found in Luke 6:31, 11:30, 17:26; John 3:14; 2 Corinthians 10:7; Colossians 3:13; etc.


The significance of the word, when used in comparisons, is that one item or action is just like the other regarding the aspect in which they are being compared. Hence Jesus rightly receives honor just like the honor the Father receives. And if we refuse to give such honor to the Son, then we are refusing to honor the Father!


John 17:5 - Jesus prayed to the Father to "glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was" (NKJV, cf. NASB, NEB; others are similar - ASV, KJV). Jesus asks to be glorified together with the Father with the glory He possessed "with" (para) the Father from eternity.


The clear implication is that Jesus and the Father both possessed the same glory before the world began. Jesus, in coming to earth as a servant, did not then appear to possess that glory but appeared as a man (this is part of what he gave up on coming to earth - Philippians 2:6-8). But having nearly completed His work on earth (John 17:4) and being ready to ascend to the Father, Jesus anticipated receiving this glory again (Philippians 2:9-11).


However, we have already learned that no one but God can receive the glory God has (Isaiah 42:8, 48:11). Jesus did receive that glory with the approval of the Father. Therefore, Jesus possesses Deity.


Revelation 5:12-14 - Both the Father and the Lamb (Jesus) were praised by the created things, who attributed to them "blessing and honor and glory and power." Note that the same glory and honor belongs to both Father and Son.


Hebrews 1:3 - Jesus is the brightness of the Father's glory (or the effulgence or radiance of His glory). That glory which shines from the Father also shines from Jesus because He is the creator (v2), upholds all things (v3), and is the express image of God (v3).


1 Corinthians 2:8; James 2:1 - Jesus is called the "Lord of glory," just as God in the Old Testament is called the "King of glory" (Psalm 24:7-10).


Note that the glory Jesus possesses is not just the glory possessed by men or angels. His glory is above that of angels (Hebrews 1:6, 13). He is above all principality, power, might, dominion, and every name that is named (Ephesians 1:21; Philippians 2:9-11). No created being possesses the glory and honor Jesus does.


We have seen, however, that Jesus deserves the glory, honor, and worship of Deity even as the Father does. God forbids this to be given to any but Deity, but Jesus does receive it. This would be blasphemy if Jesus were not God.


Conclusion


If Jesus is not Deity, then who is He? To understand God we must realize that God is not part of the created things. God is the Creator, separate and far above the creatures. This distinction is made again and again in the passages we have studied. Jesus must be classed on one side or the other. Either he is a created being or else He is Deity. To say He is not Deity is to say He is a created being. To say He is not a created being is to say He is Deity. There are no other alternatives.


Men are creatures; angels are creatures that are above men. But Jesus is above the angels and is not classed with them (Hebrews chap. 1 - see especially vv 5,6,13). We have seen that He is not an angel nor an exalted man, but the Bible attributes to Him that which can only be said of God. We have learned that:


* Jesus is expressly stated to be God or to possess Deity.
* Jesus is called by names that may only be used for God.
* Jesus possesses characteristics that only God can possess.
* Jesus does work that only God can do.
* Jesus deserves worship and honor that only God deserves.


In all these areas Jesus is described as the Creator, not a created being. He is eternal, has the power, and did the work of creation. He deserves honor as the Creator. Clearly He is not to be classed with the created things but with Deity.


But we have also proved that there is only one true God who made the universe. If Jesus is "god," He is not an idol nor a false god. Since He possesses Deity and there is only one true God, then He must possess true Deity, not some lesser form of deity. He must be included in the one true God or Godhead along with the Father and the Holy Spirit.


Finally, if Jesus is God then He always has been God and always will be God, since God's unique nature cannot change (Hebrews 13:8). God cannot cease to be God nor can God lose the characteristics of God. He can take on non-Divine characteristics as Jesus added the characteristics of a man when He came to earth, and He can limit the use of His powers in order to accomplish His Divine purposes as Jesus did on earth. But He cannot cease to be God and He cannot lose the power and characteristics of God.


Conclusion: Jesus possesses Deity since He is God/YHWH and was/is worshipped as God. As the OP says: Allelujah to Jesus Christ this Thanksgiving day. :)

hope this helps !!!
 
Nice dodge we are not talking about gifts but worship, honor.

The New Testament word for worship (proskuneo) means to do obeisance, reverence, or acts of homage (see Thayer, Vine, and Arndt & Gingrich). This word is often used to describe men worshiping God: John 4:20-24; Revelation 4:10, 7:11, 11:16, 14:7, 19:4, 15:4; 1 Corinthians 14:25.


Many verses forbid worshiping men, angels, or any created thing.


Acts 10:25, 26 - Cornelius fell down to worship Peter. Peter forbade it saying that he himself was just a man. God deserves worship, but men do not. (Cf. Acts 12:20-23, 14:8-18.)


Revelation 22:8, 9, 19:10 - John sought to worship the angel, but the angel forbade it because he was a "fellow servant." "Worship God."


Romans 1:25 - People who worship and serve created things, rather than the Creator, have left the truth of God.


To worship any created thing - whether man, angel, heavenly body, or some other object in nature (mountain, ocean, etc.) - constitutes idolatry.


Only the true God deserves to be worshipped.


Matthew 4:9, 10 - Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only.


Revelation 9:20 - Idolatry is forbidden because it constitutes worship of someone other than God (Exodus 20:3-6; Deuteronomy 6:13-15; Revelation 14:9-11). [See also Exodus 34:14]


Note: proskunew is forbidden when used for obeisance to men from a spiritual or religious motivation or purpose. The word is sometimes (but rarely) used in the New Testament non-religiously to refer to bowing in obeisance to a king, master, or other person in authority (see Matthew 18:26 - this usage is more common in the Old Testament).


When used for religious honor, however, worship is forbidden toward any except God. In this sense, "worship" is like "lord," "father," "master," etc. The words may be acceptably used for earthly, physical relationships (Ephesians 6:1-9; Colossians 3:21, 22), but we are forbidden to use such as religious honor to men or created things (Matthew 23:8-12). [On Revelation 3:9, cf. to 1 Corinthians 14:25]


The concept of Deity distinguishes the Creator from the creature. Things which are created do not have the unique characteristics of God, do not do the unique works of God, and therefore should not be addressed by the unique names of God nor should they be worshipped.


But Jesus received the unique worship God deserves.


He was often worshipped while He appeared on earth before His resurrection.


Matthew 8:2 - A leper came and worshipped Jesus. [9:18; 15:25; Mark 5:6]


Matthew 14:33 - After Jesus had calmed the storm, the disciples worshipped Him saying He was the Son of God.


John 9:38 - After Jesus had healed the blind man, He revealed Himself to be the Son of God (v35). The man said he believed, and he worshipped Jesus.


Note that such religious worship would have been blasphemy and should have been forbidden as it was in the case of Peter, the angel, etc., if Jesus had been just a man on earth.


Created beings also worship Him after His resurrection.


Matthew 28:9, 17 - After His resurrection, His disciples worshipped Him. [Cf. John 20:28, 29]


Luke 24:52 - Even after He had ascended back to heaven, they worshipped Him.


Hebrews 1:6 - Angels are instructed by God to worship Jesus.


Note that men were rebuked for worshipping men, angels, or created beings, but they were never rebuked for worshipping Jesus. Angels are even instructed by the Father to worship Jesus. The context of the above passages cannot fit the idea of obeisance to an earthly king or ruler. They refer to honoring Jesus as a religious authority - the very thing forbidden when offered to Peter, angels, etc.


Hence, Jesus accepted worship as an act of religious honor. The Scriptures, including Jesus' own teachings, would absolutely forbid this unless He possesses true Deity.


B. Glory and Honor


"Glory" (doxa) means "...praise, honor ... magnificence, excellence, preeminence, dignity, grace ... majesty" - Grimm-Wilke-Thayer.


"Honor" (timh) means "...honor which belongs or is shown to one; the honor of one who outranks others, pre-eminence ... veneration ... deference, reverence..." - Grimm-Wilke-Thayer.


Like the words "power" and "wisdom," both these words can properly be used to refer to men in the physical realm (Matthew 6:29; 1 Peter 1:24). But they are also used to describe a special degree of glory which no one but God can possess.


God receives a special, unique glory and honor.


Psalm 24:7-10 - Jehovah is the "King of glory."


Psalm 29:3 - He is the "God of glory." [Acts 7:2; cf. Isaiah 60:19; Galatians 1:5; etc.]


Revelation 4:9-11 - God deserves this glory because He created all things. Note again the distinction between the creature and the Creator. [Revelation 5:13; Romans 11:36]


Isaiah 42:8, 48:11 - This glory is unique to God in that He refuses to share it with anyone else. Idols and created things have no right to receive this glory.


It follows that it would be blasphemy for anyone but God to receive this unique kind of glory. If anyone does receive this glory with God's approval, then that one must possess Deity.


But Jesus receives the unique glory of God.


John 5:23 - All men should honor the Son "just as" they honor the Father. To fail to give this honor to the Son is to fail to properly honor the Father.


"Just as" (kathos) is translated "even as" in KJV, ASV, NASB, RSV (cf. Thayer and Arndt & Gingrich). Other examples of its use in comparisons is found in Luke 6:31, 11:30, 17:26; John 3:14; 2 Corinthians 10:7; Colossians 3:13; etc.


The significance of the word, when used in comparisons, is that one item or action is just like the other regarding the aspect in which they are being compared. Hence Jesus rightly receives honor just like the honor the Father receives. And if we refuse to give such honor to the Son, then we are refusing to honor the Father!


John 17:5 - Jesus prayed to the Father to "glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was" (NKJV, cf. NASB, NEB; others are similar - ASV, KJV). Jesus asks to be glorified together with the Father with the glory He possessed "with" (para) the Father from eternity.


The clear implication is that Jesus and the Father both possessed the same glory before the world began. Jesus, in coming to earth as a servant, did not then appear to possess that glory but appeared as a man (this is part of what he gave up on coming to earth - Philippians 2:6-8). But having nearly completed His work on earth (John 17:4) and being ready to ascend to the Father, Jesus anticipated receiving this glory again (Philippians 2:9-11).


However, we have already learned that no one but God can receive the glory God has (Isaiah 42:8, 48:11). Jesus did receive that glory with the approval of the Father. Therefore, Jesus possesses Deity.


Revelation 5:12-14 - Both the Father and the Lamb (Jesus) were praised by the created things, who attributed to them "blessing and honor and glory and power." Note that the same glory and honor belongs to both Father and Son.


Hebrews 1:3 - Jesus is the brightness of the Father's glory (or the effulgence or radiance of His glory). That glory which shines from the Father also shines from Jesus because He is the creator (v2), upholds all things (v3), and is the express image of God (v3).


1 Corinthians 2:8; James 2:1 - Jesus is called the "Lord of glory," just as God in the Old Testament is called the "King of glory" (Psalm 24:7-10).


Note that the glory Jesus possesses is not just the glory possessed by men or angels. His glory is above that of angels (Hebrews 1:6, 13). He is above all principality, power, might, dominion, and every name that is named (Ephesians 1:21; Philippians 2:9-11). No created being possesses the glory and honor Jesus does.


We have seen, however, that Jesus deserves the glory, honor, and worship of Deity even as the Father does. God forbids this to be given to any but Deity, but Jesus does receive it. This would be blasphemy if Jesus were not God.


Conclusion


If Jesus is not Deity, then who is He? To understand God we must realize that God is not part of the created things. God is the Creator, separate and far above the creatures. This distinction is made again and again in the passages we have studied. Jesus must be classed on one side or the other. Either he is a created being or else He is Deity. To say He is not Deity is to say He is a created being. To say He is not a created being is to say He is Deity. There are no other alternatives.


Men are creatures; angels are creatures that are above men. But Jesus is above the angels and is not classed with them (Hebrews chap. 1 - see especially vv 5,6,13). We have seen that He is not an angel nor an exalted man, but the Bible attributes to Him that which can only be said of God. We have learned that:


* Jesus is expressly stated to be God or to possess Deity.
* Jesus is called by names that may only be used for God.
* Jesus possesses characteristics that only God can possess.
* Jesus does work that only God can do.
* Jesus deserves worship and honor that only God deserves.


In all these areas Jesus is described as the Creator, not a created being. He is eternal, has the power, and did the work of creation. He deserves honor as the Creator. Clearly He is not to be classed with the created things but with Deity.


But we have also proved that there is only one true God who made the universe. If Jesus is "god," He is not an idol nor a false god. Since He possesses Deity and there is only one true God, then He must possess true Deity, not some lesser form of deity. He must be included in the one true God or Godhead along with the Father and the Holy Spirit.


Finally, if Jesus is God then He always has been God and always will be God, since God's unique nature cannot change (Hebrews 13:8). God cannot cease to be God nor can God lose the characteristics of God. He can take on non-Divine characteristics as Jesus added the characteristics of a man when He came to earth, and He can limit the use of His powers in order to accomplish His Divine purposes as Jesus did on earth. But He cannot cease to be God and He cannot lose the power and characteristics of God.


Jesus possesses Deity since He is God/YHWH.

hope this helps !!!
Your argument is flawed from the get-go because it improperly conflates giving obeisance (prosekynēsen) with the same thing as God worship. Bowing down does not imply that someone is worshipping and/or honoring someone as God in the Bible because bowing is a cultural thing that people do to pay homage and respect to others. Unless, of course, you are saying that Abraham either committed idolatry or that the people of the land are God. You must retract or make a correction now. I suspect you will reply with a one-liner and dismiss everything I said.

Genesis 23 (LXX - Brenton's Septuagint Translation)​
7And Abraam rose up and did obeisance to the people of the land, to the sons of Chet.​

This tackles your entire argument and demonstrates that when Jesus was bowed to that it doesn't mean he was being worshipped God. You have also seem to have a selective case of amnesia this Thanksgiving day and avoided the clear instruction from Jesus to worship the Father only.

John 4​
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”​
 
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Your argument is flawed from the get-go because it improperly conflates giving obeisance (prosekynēsen) with the same thing as God worship. Bowing down does not imply that someone is worshipping and/or honoring someone as God in the Bible because bowing is a cultural thing that people do to pay homage and respect to others. Unless, of course, you are saying that Abraham either committed idolatry or that the people of the land are God. You must retract or make a correction now. I suspect you will reply with a one-liner and dismiss everything I said.

Genesis 23 (LXX - Brenton's Septuagint Translation)​
7And Abraam rose up and did obeisance to the people of the land, to the sons of Chet.​

This tackles your entire argument and demonstrates that when Jesus was bowed to that it doesn't mean he was being worshipped. You have also seem to have a selective case of amnesia this thanksgiving day and avoided the clear instruction from Jesus to worship the Father only.

John 4​
23But a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and in truth, for the Father is seeking such as these to worship Him. 24God is Spirit, and His worshipers must worship Him in spirit and in truth.”​
another pet verse removed from the biblical narrative from John 4. Your isolated verses do not trump the biblical narrative I provided from both testaments- the biblical context/narrative.

nice try through and I saw that one coming a mile away as the uni camp only has 3-4 verses they stand on, whereas us Trins have the entire bible. :)
 
another pet berse removed from the biblical narrative from John 4. Your isolated verses do not trump the biblical narrative I provided from both testaments- the biblical context/narrative.

nice try through and I saw that one coming a mile away as the uni camp only has 3-4 verses they stand on, whereas us Trins have the entire bible. :)
Yes, I have did a good job poking a hole in your theory with the Genesis 23:7 record of Abraham giving obeisance. There is a core error in your theology.

Your premise: If Jesus receives worship (proskuneō) and is not rebuked, then he must be God.

Abraham destroys this premise because he worshipped (proskuneō) ordinary humans. We have the same word you used, the same action, but only a different target. So the claim that proskuneō toward a person must mean divine worship is wrong by definition and by Scripture.

There are too many other examples of regular people receiving proskuneō for your argument to carry any water.

Are you accusing Jesus of promoting idolatry because he would have others give proskuneō to believers?

Revelation 3
9As for those who belong to the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews but are liars instead, I will make them come and bow down at your feet, and they will know that I love you.
 
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