All the Verses That Show Us Salvation Can Occur Without Water Baptism

[101G]

Eph 2: 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
2: 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

IOW..Faith is not considered a work in the context of salvation; rather, it is viewed as a gift from God that does not rely on human effort. The Bible teaches that we are saved by grace through faith, not by our works

Requiring anything in addition to faith in Jesus Christ for salvation is a works-based salvation. To add anything to the gospel is to say that Jesus’ death on the cross was not sufficient to purchase our salvation. To say that baptism is necessary for salvation is to say we must add our own good works and obedience to Christ’s death in order to make it sufficient for salvation. Jesus’ death alone paid for our sins

But you are certainly entitled to your opinion....

But you somehow cannot grasp where I, or possibly others, are in our standing with Christ Jesus and Thew Holy Father.

You ask " where? still to your old LIFE, or to your NEW LIFE? / BELIEVE, ......AS YOU ARE IN YOUR OLD LIFE?.... NO."

I can assure you I am in a New Life and have been since the Holy Spirit came to live in me after my spiritual rebirth.

I never once said or hinted that Baptism should not be done... Go back and read what I said ... Baptism is NOT NECESSARY for Salvation.... as we saw with the Jailer, Lydia, the Eunuch, ... baptism came after....they believed.

Faith is the WORK? now LISTEN, 2 Peter 1:5 "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;" 2 Peter 1:6 "And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;" 2 Peter 1:7 "And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity." 2 Peter 1:8 "For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ." 2 Peter 1:9 "But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins."

his .... OLD SINS? yes, this is why one have a .... NEW LIFE.... and Baptism give us that "NEW LIFE" in Christ, for it ... "SHOWS OUR DEATH", so that we may become NEW..... NEW CREATURES in Christ Jesus. ...... BINGO.

101G.

 

[Seabass]

'Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ
were baptized into His death?
Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death:
that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of life.'
(Rom 6:3)

Hello @Seabass,

The believer is baptised into Christ's death, burial and resurrection. This is a dry baptism, no water involved. for it is not a ceremonial washing.

Standing And The Mystery - Believer.com

Romans 6:3-4 . . . baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was rai...

believer.com

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Jn 3:5; Acts 8:38; Acts 10:47-48; 1 Pet 3:21 water is the element involved in baptism where one is "buried" in a watery grave from which is "raised up from" (resurrected) from that watery grave to walk in newness of life.

This 'burial' and being 'raised up from' is significant;
2 Thess 1:8
"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"

1) obedience is what separates the saved from those lost in flaming fire...obedience NOT works of merit, not faith only, not reciting a sinner's prayer, not some unconditional, capricious choice God made before the world began...but obedience, specifically obedience to the gospel of Christ...

2) those in flaming fire will be those who "obeyed NOT" the gospel of Christ

3) the gospel of Christ is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, 1 Cor 15:1-4

4) how then does one obey these historical events of Christ's death burial and resurrection? Rom 6:3-5 a Christian is one who has died to sin, hence to become a Christian one must first die to sin, the old man of sin must die, is "buried and then "raised up from". Hence in water baptism there is a death burial and resurrection that takes place, NOT BY COINCIDENCE, but because that is how God planned it to be.

 

[101G]

Jn 3:5; Acts 8:38; Acts 10:47-48; 1 Pet 3:21 water is the element involved in baptism where one is "buried" in a watery grave from which is "raised up from" (resurrected) from that watery grave to walk in newness of life.

This 'burial' and being 'raised up from' is significant;
2 Thess 1:8
"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"

1) obedience is what separates the saved from those lost in flaming fire...obedience NOT works of merit, not faith only, not reciting a sinner's prayer, not some unconditional, capricious choice God made before the world began...but obedience, specifically obedience to the gospel of Christ...

2) those in flaming fire will be those who "obeyed NOT" the gospel of Christ

3) the gospel of Christ is the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, 1 Cor 15:1-4

4) how then does one obey these historical events of Christ's death burial and resurrection? Rom 6:3-5 a Christian is one who has died to sin, hence to become a Christian one must first die to sin, the old man of sin must die, is "buried and then "raised up from". Hence in water baptism there is a death burial and resurrection that takes place, NOT BY COINCIDENCE, but because that is how God planned it to be.

Correct, OBEDIENCE, supportive scripture, Matthew 21:23 "And when he was come into the temple, the chief priests and the elders of the people came unto him as he was teaching, and said, By what authority doest thou these things? and who gave thee this authority?" Matthew 21:24 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, I also will ask you one thing, which if ye tell me, I in like wise will tell you by what authority I do these things." Matthew 21:25 "The baptism of John, whence was it? from heaven, or of men? And they reasoned with themselves, saying, If we shall say, From heaven; he will say unto us, Why did ye not then believe him?" Matthew 21:26 "But if we shall say, Of men; we fear the people; for all hold John as a prophet."

OBEDIENCE is better than SACRIFICE.

101G.

 

[Seabass]

What good would it do to have assorted verses on Baptism Saves when one is standing on their principles or even teaching
that it is through out the bible that says Salvation can occur without Baptism. The members of the Church of Christ will come right out and tell you that without the proper immersion baptism, after one has faith that you are not saved and not heaven bound. For them... and possibly you also?... it is the coming up out of the water that is the born again experience. Other churches also have their own thoughts on the subject. But the truth is... there is enough in the pages of the New Testament that allows one to see that the first part of Mark 16 is not the total story.

They need not be all mixed together, unless you are having a debate on the subject. This was not started as that, and should not end up that way,





26And suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken: and immediately all the doors were opened, and every one's bands were loosed.

27And the keeper of the prison awaking out of his sleep, and seeing the prison doors open, he drew out his sword, and would have killed himself, supposing that the prisoners had been fled.

28But Paul cried with a loud voice, saying, Do thyself no harm: for we are all here.

29Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

33And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

34And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

BAPTISM CAME LAST, AFTER "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."




So the report of the Jailer is wrong. ....? Interesting

How about Stephanus?


The household of Stephanas is first mentioned in 1 Corinthians 1:16, where Paul states, "Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not remember if I baptized anyone else." This indicates that Stephanas and his household were among the first converts in Achaia, a region in Greece, and were personally baptized by Paul. Their conversion is significant as it marks the spread of Christianity beyond the Jewish community to the Gentile world.

So, here again the Baptism came after.

Lydia, Oh Lydia... Do you remember the song?

14 Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul. 15 And when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, “If you have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay.” So she persuaded us.

So she worshipped God and then heard Paul.... THEN was Baptized.

Shall we go into the Eunuch who heard while traveling and then was Baptized after.?

Every one of these, as far as can be determined Heard, Believed, and were Baptized. No mention of repenting, confession.


Just think about this for a moment. If there had been, do you honestly think it would have been smart to mention it is the bible?
That would give an out and out license to keep right on sinning.

Of those we have hear... there is no indication that they continued in their earthly ways.

in ALL gospel conversions in Acts ALL were baptized because
(1) baptism is commanded (Acts 2:38) and disobedience to God's commands is sin and sin is what separates the lost from God.

(2) baptism is for remission of sins, hence no one in Acts could be saved apart from obedience to God's will, apart from having sins remitted.

(3) "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized" (Acts 2:41) this means those Jews who rejected Peter's gospel words of salvation rejected being baptized. The logical implication is this; being baptized is HOW one receives the gospel word and not being baptized is HOW one rejects the gospel word.
Acts 8:14 when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, HOW did those in Samaria receive the word of God? from Acts 2:41 by being baptized..."when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women" v12 for rejecting baptism is rejecting the word of God.
Acts 11:1
"And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God." HOW did the Gentiles receive the word of God? Acts 10:47-48 by being water baptized per Acts 2:41.
God COMMANDED water baptism and it cannot be said in any sense that one receives the word of God if while one is rejecting God's word in disobeying the command to be water baptized. Not being water baptized IS rejection of God's word.


(4)

2 Thess 1:8
"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"
a) this verse makes it plain that obedience is the separating line between the saved and the lost (those in flaming fire)
b) to be saved (not be in flaming fire) one must OBEY the gospel of Christ
c) the gospel of Christ is the death burial and resurrection of Christ 1 Cor 15:1-4
d) how does one obey the death burial and resurrection of Christ then? Rom 6:3-5 to become a Christ one must die to sin, the old man of sins DIES is BURIED then RAISED up from the watery grave of baptism to walk in newness of life

This means ALL those in the book of Acts to be saved (not be in flaming fire) they must have obeyed the gospel of Christ by dying to sin, buried in a watery grave then raised up from (resurrected) from that watery grave to then walk in newness of life.

No obedience to the gospel of Christ is rejecting the gospel word per Acts 2:41




Numbers 1 through 4 above means salvation for the jailer, Lydia, etc would be impossible APART from receiving God's word. APART from obedience to God's command to be baptized, APART from obeying the gospel of Christ. APART from having remission of sins.

Acts 18:31 the jailer was commanded to believe, not command to "believe alone". In v31 the jailer had not yet even been told what to believe. But in verse 32 they spake unto him the word of the Lord as Peter spoke it to those in Acts 2. And for the jailer to receive the word of the Lord as those in Acts2, as the Samaritans Acts 8, as the Gentiles in Acts 10-11 required obedience to the command to be water baptized, obey the gospel of Christ or else be in flaming fire per 2 Thess 1:8 having rejected the word of the gospel by not being baptized Acts 2:41.

What happened after the word of the Lord was spoken to the jailer? He received the word. How do we know he received it? He was baptized in verse 33. Again, NOT being baptized is disobeying God, not receiving remission of sins (acts 2:38) not receiving the gospel, (Acts 2:41); not obeying the gospel of Christ 2 Thess 1:8.

Again, God commanded water baptism therefore in no sense can it be said one has received God's word while one is rejecting God's word by not obediently being baptized as God word commands/instructs.

 

[FreeInChrist]

in ALL gospel conversions in Acts ALL were baptized because
(1) baptism is commanded (Acts 2:38) and disobedience to God's commands is sin and sin is what separates the lost from God.

(2) baptism is for remission of sins, hence no on in Acts could be saved apart from obedience to God's will, apart from having sins remitted.

(3) "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized" (Acts 2:41) this means those Jews who rejected Peter's gospel words of salvation rejected being baptized. The logical implication is this; being baptized is HOW one receives the gospel word and not being baptized is HOW one rejects the gospel word.
Acts 8:14 when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, HOW did those in Samaria receive the word of God? from Acts 2:41 by being baptized..."when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women" v12 for rejecting baptism is rejecting the word of God.
Acts 11:1
"And the apostles and brethren that were in Judaea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God." HOW did the Gentiles receive the word of God? Acts 10:47-48 by being water baptized per Acts 2:41.
God COMMANDED water baptism and it cannot be said in any sense that one receives the word of God if while one is rejecting God's word in disobeying the command to be water baptized. Not being water baptized IS rejection of God's word.
(4)

2 Thess 1:8
"In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:"
a) this verse makes it plain that obedience is the separating line between the saved and the lost (those in flaming fire)
b) to be saved (not be in flaming fire) one must OBEY the gospel of Christ
c) the gospel of Christ is the death burial and resurrection of Christ 1 Cor 15:1-4
d) how does one obey the death burial and resurrection of Christ then? Rom 6:3-5 to become a Christ one must die to sin, the old man of sins DIES is BURIED then RAISED up from the watery grave of baptism to walk in newness of life

This means ALL those in the book of Acts to be saved (not be in flaming fire) they must have obeyed the gospel of Christ by dying to sin, buried in a watery grave then raised up from (resurrected) from that watery grave to then walk in newness of life.

No obedience to the gospel of Christ is rejecting the gospel word per Acts 2:41




Numbers 1 through 4 above means salvation for the jailer, Lydia, etc would be impossible APART from receiving God's word. APART from obedience to God's command to be baptized, APART from obeying the gospel of Christ. APART from having remission of sins.

Acts 18:31 the jailer was commanded to believe, not command to "believe alone". In v31 the jailer had not yet even been told what to believe. But in verse 32 they spake unto him the word of the Lord as Peter spoke it to those in Acts 2. And for the jailer to receive the word of the Lord as those in Acts2, as the Samaritans Acts 8, as the Gentiles in Acts 10-11 required obedience to the command to be water baptized, obey the gospel of Christ or else be in flaming fire per 2 Thess 1:8 having rejected the word of the gospel by not being baptized Acts 2:41.

What happened after the word of the Lord was spoken to the jailer? He received it the word. How do we know he received it? He was baptized in verse 33. Again, NOT being baptized is disobeying God, not receiving remission of sins (acts 2:38) not receiving the gospel the gospel, (Acts 2:41); not obeying the gospel of Christ 2 Thess 1:8.

Again, God commanded water baptism therefore in no sense can it be said one has received God's word while one is rejecting God's word by not obediently being baptized as God word commands/instructs.

How is it, do you suppose, that so many churches get things wrong. By churches I mean primarily the ministers and alleged men of the cloth.

Even the RCC does babies, and they are not followers of John Calvin. Where did they get their information?

Wiki says that infant baptism emerged gradually from the late 2nd century, became widespread by the 3rd century.

So how is it that people, who claim to be called from God, screw up so much in the Holy Book with errant understanding?

Calvin had his own ideas and a lot of churches and theologians follow him , I believe, because when he wrote, he wrote with
seeming authority that the common man could understand him.

Such as on Baptism

Commented Calvin:13

In Calvin’s Geneva Catechism, the catechizer asked about the meaning of baptism. There, Calvin gave the answer as regards new members of the Church Visible: "Baptism is a kind of entrance into the Church...when the water is poured upon the head."

15Calvin also wrote: "We maintain...that in baptism...the forehead is sprinkled."

16 Indeed, in his Geneva Catechism, he also declared:

17 "The meaning of baptism...is set before us, whenthe water is poured upon the head.... We receive the fruit of this cleansing, when the Holy Spirit sprinkles our consciences with that sacred blood.... The Minister of baptism pours water on the infant."Further, explained Calvin,

18 "Augustine...wisely teaches that the elements become sacraments only when the Word is added....

Our Saviour pronounces the Apostles clean...because of the Word which they had heard from Him -- not because of the baptism....What can a mortal and earthly man do, by pouring water on the heads of those whom he baptizes -- if Christ does not pronounce from above that He...washes their souls by His blood and renews them by His Spirit?"

So then – what was Calvin’s mode of baptism? Submersionism of the candidate? Hardly!For he consistently advocated immersing the fingers into the baptismal water, and sprinkling it onto the head. So too should all Calvinists today
And this was for anyone , not just infants that he approved of.... because he likend infant baptism to infant child circumsision.. saying
“Reason would tell us that baptism is rightly administered to babies. The Lord did not give circumcision long ago without making them (infants) partakers of everything represented by circumcision. He would have been deceiving his people with a sham, if he had reassured them with false signs. The idea is very shocking. He distinctly states that the circumcision of the infant is the seal of covenant promise. If the covenant remains firm and unmoved, this is just as relevant to the children of Christians today as it was to the children of the Jews under the Old Testament…The truth of baptism applies to infants, so why do we deny them the sign? The Lord himself formally admitted infants to his covenant, so what more do we need?”

But of course no adult baptism today is done this was and certainly not among the Calvin/predestined believers who hang on Calvins every word on that but ignore him on this.

There are 320 million people approx in the USA. I have no idea how many are believers... but it has to be a minority.
And of those in that minority there are as many differing beliefs on what they read and I want to know why.

How many of us are being walked or led down the road to perdition by people and clergy who allegedly preach the truth.

That is the scary part.

 

[Complete]

How is it, do you suppose, that so many churches get things wrong. By churches I mean primarily the ministers and alleged men of the cloth.

Even the RCC does babies, and they are not followers of John Calvin. Where did they get their information?

Wiki says that infant baptism emerged gradually from the late 2nd century, became widespread by the 3rd century.

So how is it that people, who claim to be called from God, screw up so much in the Holy Book with errant understanding?

Calvin had his own ideas and a lot of churches and theologians follow him , I believe, because when he wrote, he wrote with
seeming authority that the common man could understand him.

Such as on Baptism

Commented Calvin:13

In Calvin’s Geneva Catechism, the catechizer asked about the meaning of baptism. There, Calvin gave the answer as regards new members of the Church Visible: "Baptism is a kind of entrance into the Church...when the water is poured upon the head."

15Calvin also wrote: "We maintain...that in baptism...the forehead is sprinkled."

16 Indeed, in his Geneva Catechism, he also declared:

17 "The meaning of baptism...is set before us, whenthe water is poured upon the head.... We receive the fruit of this cleansing, when the Holy Spirit sprinkles our consciences with that sacred blood.... The Minister of baptism pours water on the infant."Further, explained Calvin,

18 "Augustine...wisely teaches that the elements become sacraments only when the Word is added....

Our Saviour pronounces the Apostles clean...because of the Word which they had heard from Him -- not because of the baptism....What can a mortal and earthly man do, by pouring water on the heads of those whom he baptizes -- if Christ does not pronounce from above that He...washes their souls by His blood and renews them by His Spirit?"

So then – what was Calvin’s mode of baptism? Submersionism of the candidate? Hardly!For he consistently advocated immersing the fingers into the baptismal water, and sprinkling it onto the head. So too should all Calvinists today
And this was for anyone , not just infants that he approved of.... because he likend infant baptism to infant child circumsision.. saying
“Reason would tell us that baptism is rightly administered to babies. The Lord did not give circumcision long ago without making them (infants) partakers of everything represented by circumcision. He would have been deceiving his people with a sham, if he had reassured them with false signs. The idea is very shocking. He distinctly states that the circumcision of the infant is the seal of covenant promise. If the covenant remains firm and unmoved, this is just as relevant to the children of Christians today as it was to the children of the Jews under the Old Testament…The truth of baptism applies to infants, so why do we deny them the sign? The Lord himself formally admitted infants to his covenant, so what more do we need?”

But of course no adult baptism today is done this was and certainly not among the Calvin/predestined believers who hang on Calvins every word on that but ignore him on this.

There are 320 million people approx in the USA. I have no idea how many are believers... but it has to be a minority.
And of those in that minority there are as many differing beliefs on what they read and I want to know why.

How many of us are being walked or led down the road to perdition by people and clergy who allegedly preach the truth.

That is the scary part.

Which Baptism For You? - In The Bible There Are Many - Believer.com

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Note The Beautiful Typology In 1 Peter 3:18-22: 1. The Ark It is clearly implied that the Ark represents a rela...

believer.com

'Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free,
and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.'
(Gal. 5:1)

'For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty;
only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh,
but by love serve one another.'
(Gal. 5:13)

Hello @FreeInChrist,

Your user name proclaims the truth that you believe, and mine proclaims what I believe too, for I believe that the believer in the Lord Jesus Christ is complete in Christ.

'Beware lest any man spoil you
through philosophy and vain deceit,
after the tradition of men,
after the rudiments of the world,
and not after Christ.
For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
And ye are complete in Him,
Which is the head of all principality and power:
In Whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands,
in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
Buried with Him in baptism, (The Baptism of the Lord Jesus Christ)
wherein also ye are risen with Him through the faith of the operation of God,
Who hath raised Him from the dead.
And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh,
hath He quickened together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses;'
(Col 2:8-13)

I thought you may appreciate the link above.

In Christ Jesus
Chris