Do you believe the Fathers words in Heb 1:8 as truth?
I have some that says otherwise. But I'll give you one, this is not a translation, again this is an original Greek of the New Testament. This is from Westcott and Hort whom render John 1:18 in Greek, see below;
We can compare the two, Mace textual basis was from Textus Receptus same with KJV, but Mace made some changes based on the textual apparatus from John Mill's "The Greek New Testament". And that's why Mace's NT described as "huge deviation" to Dynamic Equivalence". Departing from word for word translation that is why it differ from KJV. So, I think Mace's NT is considered a paraphrase translation. You can read Heb 1:8 from KJV it now differs from Mace.
www.logos.com
You may be smarter than me. The NIV puts it this way...We can compare the two, Mace textual basis was from Textus Receptus same with KJV, but Mace made some changes based on the textual apparatus from John Mill's "The Greek New Testament". And that's why Mace's NT described as "huge deviation" to Dynamic Equivalence". Departing from word for word translation that is why it differ from KJV. So, I think Mace's NT is considered a paraphrase translation. You can read Heb 1:8 from KJV it now differs from Mace.
The Mace New Testament and the Westcott and Hort (W&H) New Testament represent two distinct approaches to the textual criticism of the New Testament. The Mace New Testament, published in 1729, relied on the Textus Receptus (Received Text), while the W&H text, published in 1881, favored a critical approach based on ancient manuscripts, particularly the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus. Westcott and Hort established a new method of textual criticism, emphasizing the importance of early and reliable manuscripts to identify the most accurate text. https://www.google.com/search?q=mac...SFlgcr8QUEu0OkhZYHKw&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Maces' New Testament was a huge deviation of the day, in that translators would only do word-for-word translations of the Received Text. Mace's goal was to create what we could consider today a "Dynamic Equivalence Translation".
Mace New Testament
The year 1729 saw a notable step forward in English Bible translation, but it was one that went largely unrecognized at the time. A translation of the New Testament appeared that was the work of Daniel Mace, although it was published anonymously. Daniel Mace, a Presbyterian minister and textual...
Dynamic equivalence in translation focuses on conveying the meaning and overall effect of the original text on the target audience, even if it means deviating from a literal word-for-word translation.
Now here find a literal word for word Bible translation that aims to maintain the highest accuracy to the original Greek, NAS95+ renders Heb 1:8;
Heb 1:8 But of the Son G5207 He says, " R1 YOUR THRONE G2362 , O GOD G2316 , IS FOREVER G165 AND EVER G165 , AND THE RIGHTEOUS G2118 SCEPTER G4464 IS THE SCEPTER G4464 OF N1 HIS KINGDOM G932 .
Now back to you...We can compare the two, Mace textual basis was from Textus Receptus same with KJV, but Mace made some changes based on the textual apparatus from John Mill's "The Greek New Testament". And that's why Mace's NT described as "huge deviation" to Dynamic Equivalence". Departing from word for word translation that is why it differ from KJV. So, I think Mace's NT is considered a paraphrase translation. You can read Heb 1:8 from KJV it now differs from Mace.
The Mace New Testament and the Westcott and Hort (W&H) New Testament represent two distinct approaches to the textual criticism of the New Testament. The Mace New Testament, published in 1729, relied on the Textus Receptus (Received Text), while the W&H text, published in 1881, favored a critical approach based on ancient manuscripts, particularly the Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus. Westcott and Hort established a new method of textual criticism, emphasizing the importance of early and reliable manuscripts to identify the most accurate text. https://www.google.com/search?q=mac...SFlgcr8QUEu0OkhZYHKw&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
Maces' New Testament was a huge deviation of the day, in that translators would only do word-for-word translations of the Received Text. Mace's goal was to create what we could consider today a "Dynamic Equivalence Translation".
Mace New Testament
The year 1729 saw a notable step forward in English Bible translation, but it was one that went largely unrecognized at the time. A translation of the New Testament appeared that was the work of Daniel Mace, although it was published anonymously. Daniel Mace, a Presbyterian minister and textual...
Dynamic equivalence in translation focuses on conveying the meaning and overall effect of the original text on the target audience, even if it means deviating from a literal word-for-word translation.
Now here find a literal word for word Bible translation that aims to maintain the highest accuracy to the original Greek, NAS95+ renders Heb 1:8;
Heb 1:8 But of the Son G5207 He says, " R1 YOUR THRONE G2362 , O GOD G2316 , IS FOREVER G165 AND EVER G165 , AND THE RIGHTEOUS G2118 SCEPTER G4464 IS THE SCEPTER G4464 OF N1 HIS KINGDOM G932 .
The subject at this time is not Phil 2:5-8
John 1:18 (LEB) — 18 No one has seen God at any time; the one and only, God, the one who is in the bosom of the Father—that one has made him known.
Yet Jesus never said he is God.All Claims of The Son's Deity
In about 45% of the New Testament, 19 witnesses make 50 claims of The Son's Deity in 186 iterations, including 54 iterations by Jesus Himself.
These claims are organized in three ways on separate Pages:
There are far more claims of The Son's deity than I was led to believe by conventional minimalization; but hundreds were not necessary. In God-breathed Scripture, only one of them was necessary to state the truth.
These claims are a more complete portrait of what the apostle John meant when he wrote, "The one who believes in The Son has eternal life. The one who rejects The Son will not see life, but God's wrath remains on him" [John 3:36]. Rejecting The Son's deity is in fact rejecting The Son, which Jesus warns explicitly [John 8:24].
BY CATEGORY
Actions of Yahweh [22]
Answers prayer ⇒ [3x] John 14:13; 14:14; 16:26.
Draws all people to Himself ⇒ [1x] John 12:32.
Eliminates death itself ⇒ [2x] 1 Cor 15:26; 2 Tim 1:10.
Forgives sin ⇒ [1x] Mark 2:5.
Fulfills all things (or: fills the universe) ⇒ [1x] Eph 4:10.
Gives life ⇒ [3x] John 5:21; 21:22; 1 Cor 15:45.
Influences human action (despite no longer being on Earth)
⇒ [7x] 1 Cor 1:8a; 11:32; 16:7; 1 Tim 1:12; 1:16b; 2 Tim 1:12c; Jude 1:24.
Nullified [the power of] The Law ⇒ [1x] Eph 2:15.
Purifies for Himself an elect people (λαός περιούσιος) ⇒ [1x] Titus 2:14.
Resurrects Himself from the dead ⇒ [1x] John 2:19.
Transforms all believers’ bodies into His own likeness ⇒ [1x] Phil 3:21.
Characteristics of Yahweh [30]
Eternal ⇒ [6x] John 1:1a; 1:2; 17:5b; 17:24; 1 John 1:1; 1:2.
Immutable ⇒ [2x] 2 Tim 2:13c; Heb 13:8.
Impassible ⇒ [2x] Phil 2:7a; 2:7b.
Inscrutable ⇒ [2x] Matt 11:27a; John 8:19b.
Sinless ⇒ [2x] John 8:46; 1 John 3:5.
Omniscient (accounting for kenosis and difference in role)
⇒ [4x] John 2:24; 2:25; 16:30a; 21:17.
Otherworldly ⇒ [12x] John 5:34; 6:46; 8:23; 8:42; 13:3; 15:5; 16:28; 16:30c; Rom 8:3;
1 Cor 15:47; Eph 4:9; 1 Tim 1:15.
Conflations, Other [27]
Ascriptions ⇒ [2x]
Luke 1:76 (The Most High); Rom 14:9 (Lord of the Living and the Dead).
Assertions ⇒ [4x]
John 8:12 (I am The Light of the World).
John 11:25 (I am The Ressurection and The Life).
John 14:6 (I am The Way, The Truth, and The Life).
John 16:33 (I have conquered the World).
Born of ⇒ [1x] 1 John 3:1.
Denying Him results in Hell ⇒ [1x] 2 Tim 2:12.
Equal Authority and Ownership to The Father ⇒ [2x] John 16:15; 17:10.
Equal Possessor of God’s glory, which Yahweh shares with no one [« Isa 42:8]
⇒ [1x] John 17:5a.
Knowing The Son equals knowing The Father ⇒ [4x] Matt 11:27b; John 8:19c; 14:7; 14:8.
Knowing equals Eternal Life ⇒ [1x] John 17:3.
One with The Father and/or The Spirit ontologically
⇒ [8x] John 10:30; 10:38; 14:10; 14:11; 14:23; 17:11; 17:21: 17:22.
Seeing The Son equals seeing The Father ⇒ [1x] John 14:9.
Working of The Son equated to working of The Father ⇒ [2x] John 5:17; 5:19.
Devotion due to Yahweh [21]
Devotional Belief in (not mundane belief, confidence, or trust)
⇒ [9x] John 1:7; 1:12; 14:1; Eph 1:13; 1:15; Col 1:4; 1 Tim 1:16c; 2 Tim 1:12b; Phlm 1:5.
of Equal Honor to The Father ⇒ [1x] John 5:23.
Object of the Highest Love, due only to the God of The Shema
⇒ [4x] Matt 10:37; Luke 14:26; 1 Cor 16:22; Eph 6:24.
United to ⇒ [3x] Rom 7:4; 1 Cor 6:17; Eph 5:32.
Worship of ⇒ [4x] Eph 5:19; Rev 5:13; Rev 22:3; 22:5a-b.
Direct Equation [69]
Called "Lord" in the sense of "Yahweh" ⇒ [22x]
Luke 1:16; 1:17; 1:43; 1:68; 1:76; John 20:28b; Acts 9:17; 19:5; 21:13; 21:14;
Rom 10:9; 10:12; 1 Cor 1:2; 1:8b; 8:6c; 12:3; Eph 4:5; Phil 2:11b; 3:20; Jude 1:4; 1:14;
Rev 22:5c
Called "God" ⇒ [17x]
Luke 1:16; 1:68; John 1:1c; 1:18; 20:28c; Rom 9:5; 14:10; 14:12; 1 Cor 5:13; 1 Tim 3:15-16; Titus 1:3; 2:13; Heb 1:8; 2 Pet 1:1; 1 John 5:20; 2 John 1:9; Jude 1:25.
Equal or Identical to God ⇒ [3x] Phil 2:6a; 2:6b; Heb 1:3b.
Monogenic Sonship which denotes the same essence
⇒ [3x] John 3:16; 3:18; 1 John 4:9.
Called The Kabod YHWH / The Glory of God, who is Yahweh
⇒ [2x] Heb 1:3a; Rev 21:23c.
Called the “I AM” or “I Am He,” who is Yahweh
⇒ [3x] John 8:24 (by cataphora); 8:28 (ibid.); 8:58.
Direct OT Citation or Allusion substituting for Yahweh or The Kabod YHWH [19]
John 1:23 (Isa 40:3); John 3:13 (Prov 30:4); Rom 9:32 (Isa 8:13-14; 28:16);
Rom 10:13 (Joel 2:32); Rom 14:11 (Isa 45:23); 1 Cor 1:31 (Jer 9:24[23]);
1 Cor 2:16 (Isa 40:13); 1 Cor 10:4; 1 Cor 10:9; Eph 4:8 (Isa 68:19-21[Eng. 18-20]);
Eph 5:14a-b (Isa 26:19-20); Eph 5:14c (Isa 60:1-2); Phil 2:10-11a (Isa 45:23-24);
2 Tim 2:19 (Num 16:5); 2 Tim 4:14 (Ps 28:4); Jude 1:5b (e.g., Exod 13:9);
Jude 1:5c (Num 1:35); Rev 21:23b (Isa 60:19-20); Rev 22:5a-b (Isa 60:19-20).
Offices of Yahweh [17]
Apportioner to each human his lot in life ⇒ [2x] 1 Cor 7:17; Eph 4:11.
Creator ⇒ [6x] John 1:3; 1:10; 1:11; 1 Cor 8:6d; Col 3:10 (of the New Man, the born-again
aspect); Heb 1:2c.
Judge, Eschatological/Cosmic ⇒ [3x] John 12:31; 2 Tim 4:1; 4:8.
King of Heaven ⇒ [3x] 1 Cor 15:24; Eph 6:9; Rev 22:5d.
Rewarder of each human [« Prov 24:12, exclusive domain of YHWH]
⇒ [2x] Matt 16:27; Rom 2:6.
Shepherd, Only [1]
⇒ John 10:14-16 (“The Good Shepherd” and “One Shepherd” for His “own”).
All Claims of The Son's Deity, by Category | The Triunity of God
www.thetriunityofgod.com
J.
That sounds like a closed question to me... your mind appears made up, and nothing I could show you from Scripture would convince you otherwise.
It's just the truth. "I am God" or a similar statement was never found on the lips of Jesus according to those who were with him and wrote about him.
Yes, you speak about baptism, but why divert the topic from the OP?
Yes, the Father said to the Son, your throne, O God(referring to Jesus), is forever and ever.
Let me present to a you a simple logic;
No I do not see God saying the throne of Jesus is forever even thought that is true too. I see God saying my throne is forever that you Jesus get to use.
I did not sidestep anything. I got back to you on Hebrews and replied again just now. I diverted from the OP with a post to see if I can learn from you. Do we still have a sin nature or is it gone as the NIV says?
When we are baptized, our trespasses by the grace of God are forgiven, the old unbeliever life has gone. We are a new creation (a baby Christian), but still has that sinful nature. The author of 1 John had written to the believers so they may not sin, but when anyone fails, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus the righteous.
So, what does it mean to read, "But of the Son He (the Father) says," Do you mean that the Father says to the Father?
No, I describe Him as a good comunicator.
God cannot beget nor be begotten by definition.
Not the Jews in general, but those Jews who were the enemies of Jesus and made FALSE ACCUSATIONS on Jesus.
Are you denying what you've said in you post#591?
