A request

[Runningman]

You are making a category mistake — a failure to grasp that “to partake” in English and "κοινωνία / κοινωνός" in Greek describe participation, not transmutation.

For example, if you partake of a banana, you don’t become the banana; you simply benefit from its nourishment. Your nature remains the same; the thing you partake of remains what it is. You don't "make Christians out to be God" because they partake of God's divine nature.

The Greek root κοινωνός means “one who shares with” or “partner”. It appears in verses such as:

Phil. 1:7 — “Partakers of grace” — they didn’t become grace.

Heb. 10:33 — “Partakers with those so treated” — they didn’t *become* those people.

When 2 Peter 1:4 says believers are “κοινωνοὶ θείας φύσεως” (partakers of the divine nature*), the meaning is that we share in the benefits, life, and moral qualities of God through His promises.It does NOT mean our created nature becomes God’s uncreated nature.

The Bible’s teaching is that we participate in what God gives (His life, holiness, incorruption), not in what God is in essence.

In summary, to think that “partake” or “κοινωνός” means "you make Christians out to be God" is to misunderstand the plain meaning of the English word "partake", misinterpret the Greek vocabulary and usage, and confuse participation with transformation of essence. The Bible’s teaching is that we participate in what God gives—His life, holiness, incorruption—not in what God is in His essence. God remains uncreated, we remain created, and the distinction between Creator and creature is never erased by our sharing in His gifts.

As for Jesus, at no time does he ever have to "partake" of divine nature. That's because he is God to begin with (John 1:1c).

John makes use of Greek-styled neuter pronouns in 1 John 1 to refer to an abstracted or collective reality, as he did in John 3:6: “That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” We can all agree that a thing is not born of Spirit, people are. Right?

Let's summarise all your flat-out Bible and logic contradictions/mistakes:

1. Your categorical mistake when you think that partaking of an item transforms your nature into that item.
2. Your ignorance of the Greek word κοινωνία,
3. Your ignorance of Greek neuter pronouns in 1 John 1.
4. You said that "the Word is not actually God" which flat out contradicts John 1:1c that says "the Word was God".
5. At no time does Jesus ever have to "partake" of divine nature. That's because he is God to begin with (John 1:1c).
6. The REV translates from God only knows which originals when they dreamt up the phrase "what God was the word was".

You're digging yourself quite a unitarian grave here. The more you talk, the more the unitarian grave grows.

You are losing grasp with reality it seems. Partaking of the divine nature means they are sharing the divine nature with God. If they don't actually share the divine nature then God doesn't have a divine nature that others can partakle in. Trinitarianism always results in blasphemy. So your argument that the word is actually God because it has the nature of God is not a valid or convincing argument.

You also have no evidence outside of John 1:1 that the Word is actually God. In John 1:2,3 the Word is not the Creator, but rather the God the Word is with is the Creator.

The Word being God or the Creator is not repeated anywhere in the Bible. No where in the Bible is there a character called the Word who was with God, no where is the Word saying or doing anything in the Bible, no where in the rest of the Bible is the Word said to be Jesus, saying, or doing anything. Yet we still have 1John 1:1-3 where the Word is explicitly called a thing, eternal life, that was revealed by Jesus.

The common denominator due to the preponderance of evidence is that the Word is not actually God. You actually were doing a good job proving this in your initial comment in comment #191. You insisted that I replied and it has only gone south for you from there. You said "an anarthrous predicate nominative that appears before the verb has a qualitative sense. It describes the nature or essence of the subject rather than identifying it as the same person as another." Your very words are a powerful testament that the Word is not God, but rather has a qualities of God. Therefore, the Word is godly, but not God.

 

[civic]

You are making a category mistake — a failure to grasp that “to partake” in English and "κοινωνία / κοινωνός" in Greek describe participation, not transmutation.

For example, if you partake of a banana, you don’t become the banana; you simply benefit from its nourishment. Your nature remains the same; the thing you partake of remains what it is. You don't "make Christians out to be God" because they partake of God's divine nature.

The Greek root κοινωνός means “one who shares with” or “partner”. It appears in verses such as:

Phil. 1:7 — “Partakers of grace” — they didn’t become grace.

Heb. 10:33 — “Partakers with those so treated” — they didn’t *become* those people.

When 2 Peter 1:4 says believers are “κοινωνοὶ θείας φύσεως” (partakers of the divine nature*), the meaning is that we share in the benefits, life, and moral qualities of God through His promises.It does NOT mean our created nature becomes God’s uncreated nature.

The Bible’s teaching is that we participate in what God gives (His life, holiness, incorruption), not in what God is in essence.

In summary, to think that “partake” or “κοινωνός” means "you make Christians out to be God" is to misunderstand the plain meaning of the English word "partake", misinterpret the Greek vocabulary and usage, and confuse participation with transformation of essence. The Bible’s teaching is that we participate in what God gives—His life, holiness, incorruption—not in what God is in His essence. God remains uncreated, we remain created, and the distinction between Creator and creature is never erased by our sharing in His gifts.

As for Jesus, at no time does he ever have to "partake" of divine nature. That's because he is God to begin with (John 1:1c).

John makes use of Greek-styled neuter pronouns in 1 John 1 to refer to an abstracted or collective reality, as he did in John 3:6: “That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” We can all agree that a thing is not born of Spirit, people are. Right?

Let's summarise all your flat-out Bible and logic contradictions/mistakes:

1. Your categorical mistake when you think that partaking of an item transforms your nature into that item.
2. Your ignorance of the Greek word κοινωνία,
3. Your ignorance of Greek neuter pronouns in 1 John 1.
4. You said that "the Word is not actually God" which flat out contradicts John 1:1c that says "the Word was God".
5. At no time does Jesus ever have to "partake" of divine nature. That's because he is God to begin with (John 1:1c).
6. The REV translates from God only knows which originals when they dreamt up the phrase "what God was the word was".

You're digging yourself quite a unitarian grave here. The more you talk, the more the unitarian grave grows.

Ditto

 

[Studyman]

I don't

Just to be clear, Reds post starts out, "Christ is NOT the Scepter of God's Kingdom", then goes on to say that Christ "IS" the Scepter of God's Kingdom.

I know I shouldn't pay attention to him, nevertheless, he is a preacher on this forum.

By describing Jesus Christ as ruling with a scepter (Revelation 12:5),

Rev. 12: 5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne. Isn't that the same as what David said.

the Bible also establishes His authority as equal with God's (Philippians 2:5).

Phil. 2: 6 Who, being in the form of God, (Spirit) thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Didn't Jesus say: Matt. 10: 24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household? 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, "and became obedient" unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore (Because of this) God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Doesn't Jesus establish that it's good that all servants be "as his Lord". I love that you post scripture, and am happy to discuss them. But how does this negate the words of David concerning the Scepter of God's Kingdom?

Hebrews 1:8 quotes Psalm 45:6 and applies it to Jesus. The scepter of God is a fearful thing to His enemies.

Ps. 45: 6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy (God's) kingdom is a right sceptre. 7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, "thy God", hath anointed thee (Scepter) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

The Jesus "of the Bible" tells me:

John 17: 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou (Father) hast given him (Son) "power over all flesh", that he should give eternal life to as many as thou (Father) hast given him. (Son) 3 And this is life eternal, (According to what the Jesus "of the bible" teaches) that they might know "thee" the only true God, "and" Jesus Christ, whom thou (One True God) hast sent.

1 cor. 11: 3 But I would have you know, that "the head" of every man "is Christ"; and the head of the woman is the man; and "the head" of Christ "is God".

Therefore, the "Head" of the Christ, the Scepter of God's Kingdom is "God". And the Head of David, is the Scepter of God's Kingdom, and God has given His Scepter "Power over all Flesh", including David.

As it is written: "therefore God, thy (Christ's, the Scepter of God's Kingdom's), God hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

Phil. 2: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he (Christ, Scepter of God's Kingdom) humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God (HIS God) also hath highly exalted him ( David's Lord) and given him a name which is above every name:

David and I are on the same page in this matter.

Ps. 110: The LORD said unto "my Lord", Sit "thou" (Scepter of God's Kingdom, David's Head/Lord) "at my (The Lord, the One True God) right hand", until I make thine enemies thy footstool. 2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

As described A scepter is a staff or wand held in the hand by a ruling monarch as an item of royal or imperial insignia, signifying sovereign authority. Which certainly applies to Jesus as He is God.

If a person was to read what Jesus and David and Paul said, they would understand that Jesus is my, Paul's and David's Redeemer, our Lord and Savior, our "Head" as it were. But HE was Sent by, who Jesus Himself, David and Paul all agree, is the One True God that no man has ever seen. And in my understanding, one that is not promoted by this world's religious system it seems. And yet Jesus even today, is advocating between this One True God, His God and me.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, "Jesus Christ" the righteous:

Jesus isn't the Advocate between me and Himself, but me and His God. Do you not believe this?

I believe the Spirit of Christ in David, in that this Christ, who was with His Father as a Spirit before the world was, "IS" the Scepter of God's Kingdom.

And that God's Kingdom exists within the minds of men. As Jesus also teaches.

Luke 17: 20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

I fellowship with a small group of people who speak about this Kingdom and the implications of Jesus Words here.

I hope that instead of just working to justify an adopted or traditional religious philosophy or belief, we might have something different here, an actual discussion about what is written, despite preconceived notions or beliefs.

HOWEVER
Yes, Jesus is often referred to as the scepter, symbolizing His authority and kingship. This concept is rooted in biblical prophecies that describe Him as the rightful ruler and king, particularly in the context of His divine authority and governance.

And rightly so, in God's Kingdom that dwells in the minds of humans. It's all over the Scriptures. "Let this mind be in you, that was in Christ Jesus". Consider for a second, that the Kingdom of God is in our minds, as Jesus said. Who then, are our subjects? Would these be our thoughts which produce our deeds? Don't we battle in our mind "against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places".

I am in complete agreement that in the Kingdom of God Jesus Speaks to, it is the Sayings of the Christ, my Lord and David's Lord, that is to reign in the Kingdom of God that dwells within us.

And when Jesus is referred to as the scepter because it symbolizes His authority, power, and kingship. In biblical terms, the scepter represents righteousness and the right to rule, highlighting Jesus as the King of Kings who governs with justice and truth.

Please be careful about trying to mold and shape scriptures to fit a narrative or philosophy. I have to watch this in myself all the time. The Scriptures doesn't refer to Jesus "as the Scepter" alone. But as the Scepter of "God's Kingdom". Here is what the Scripture actually teaches.

Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: "the sceptre" of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

The Christ was taught by God, Given Power by God, Sent into the world by God, raised from the dead by God, worshipped god, Prayed to God, told me to worship God and pray to God..

He worshiped God long before HE became a man.

Is. 48: 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

17 Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

Just as Paul and Jesus teach, "And the Head of Christ is God".

And should not be confused with
Jesus ruling with a rod of iron as a symbol of authority and power, indicating that He will enforce strict obedience and discipline among the nations. This metaphor suggests that His rule will be firm and unyielding, ensuring that those who oppose Him will face consequences, similar to how a potter shatters clay vessels' Rev 2:27 AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Father; and Psalm 2:9 ‘You shall break them with a rod of iron, You shall shatter them like earthenware.’”

Ps. 2: 1 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?

2 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3 Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us.

According to the Christ, all His Power, His anointing, came from His God, the One True God. All the Words HE gave to us, were given Him by His God that no man has ever seen. No man can come to Him unless His Father sends them.

Matt. 24: 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Knowing that
This "rod of iron" while often interpreted as a metaphor for authority and power, it is not necessarily a scepter in the traditional sense. In biblical texts, it is described as a tool for ruling and enforcing strict standards, rather than a symbol of royal authority alone

DOES THIS CLARIFY THINGS FOR YOU?

I think you should address some of the Scriptures you and I posted and engage in an honest discussion to determine what they mean, and not fpr the purpose of justifying one popular religious philosophy or another.

 

[synergy]

You are losing grasp with reality it seems. Partaking of the divine nature means they are sharing the divine nature with God. If they don't actually share the divine nature then God doesn't have a divine nature that others can partakle in. Trinitarianism always results in blasphemy. So your argument that the word is actually God because it has the nature of God is not a valid or convincing argument.

You want us to think that when we partake of anything, say a banana, we don't just benefit from its nourishment but we actually become the same nature as a banana. All I can say to that is that you're bananas.

Listen, if you partake of a banana, you don’t become the banana; you simply benefit from its nourishment. Your nature remains the same; the thing you partake of remains what it is. You don't "make Christians out to be God" because they partake of God's divine nature.

You also have no evidence outside of John 1:1 that the Word is actually God.

So you do agree that I have evidence within John 1:1 that the Word is actually God. Excellent!!! That's all I needed for you to confess to in order for unitarianism to be exposed as a fraud.

In John 1:2,3 the Word is not the Creator, but rather the God the Word is with is the Creator.

You have difficulty understanding the grammatical fact that pronouns implicitly point back to the Primary Subject as their Antecedent. The primary subject is established as the Word in verse 1. All pronouns in verses 2-5 point back to the Word. Proof of that is how the pronoun in verse 2 points back to the Word. That makes the Word the Creator through which all things were made.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

The Word being God or the Creator is not repeated anywhere in the Bible. No where in the Bible is there a character called the Word who was with God, no where is the Word saying or doing anything in the Bible, no where in the rest of the Bible is the Word said to be Jesus, saying, or doing anything. Yet we still have 1John 1:1-3 where the Word is explicitly called a thing, eternal life, that was revealed by Jesus.

Again, John makes use of Greek-styled neuter pronouns in 1 John 1 to refer to an abstracted or collective reality, as he did in John 3:6: “That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” We can all agree that a thing is not born of Spirit, people are. Right?

The common denominator due to the preponderance of evidence is that the Word is not actually God. You actually were doing a good job proving this in your initial comment in comment #191. You insisted that I replied and it has only gone south for you from there. You said "an anarthrous predicate nominative that appears before the verb has a qualitative sense. It describes the nature or essence of the subject rather than identifying it as the same person as another." Your very words are a powerful testament that the Word is not God, but rather has a qualities of God. Therefore, the Word is godly, but not God.

Let's summarise all your flat-out Bible, grammatical, and logic contradictions/mistakes:

1. You have difficulty understanding the grammatical fact that pronouns implicitly point back to the Primary Subject as their Antecedent.
2. Your categorical mistake when you think that partaking of an item transforms your nature into that item.
3. Your ignorance of the Greek word κοινωνία,
4. Your ignorance of Greek neuter pronouns in 1 John 1.
5. You said that "the Word is not actually God" which flat out contradicts John 1:1c that says "the Word was God".
6. At no time does Jesus ever have to "partake" of divine nature. That's because he is God to begin with (John 1:1c).
7. The REV translates from God only knows which originals when they dreamt up the phrase "what God was the word was".

The more you talk, the deeper the unitarian grave grows.

 

[Studyman]

The golden sceptre is that which the king ruled by, the sceptre is NOT THE KING!

YESSSSS, YESSSSS the "Scepter of God's Kingdom" is "not the King". The "KING" Anointed the Scepter, with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. Because the Scepter loved righteousness and hated wickedness, as it is written.

Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, (The KING) hath anointed thee (the Scepter of God's Kingdom) with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

The "KING" is the HEAD of the Scepter.

"But I would have you know, that the head of "every man" "is Christ"; and the head of the woman is the man; and the "head of Christ" (The Scepter of God's Kingdom) is God. (Christ's KING)

The "KING" gave the Scepter Power over all flesh. The Scepter worships the "KING", serves the "KING", Glorifies the "KING".

John 17: 1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father,(My God, MY KING) the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: 2 As thou (The KING) hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou (Christ's KING) hast given him. 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee "the only true God", (The Christ's KING) and "Jesus Christ", (Scepter of God's Kingdom) whom thou (The KING) hast sent.

The "KING" Sent the Scepter of His Kingdom into my world. The Scepter "Humbles Himself" to the "KING" who is greater than He, in obedience. I am instructed to have the same mind as this same Scepter.

The Scepter is "my Lord",and David's Lord placed over me by the "KING", the God and Father of the Lord's Christ.

PS. 110: The LORD (The KING) said unto "my Lord", (The Scepter of God's Kingdom) Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

The Scepter to this very day, is an advocate between me and the Christ's "King" whom Christ serves, that no man has ever seen.

1 John 2: 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, (The KING) Jesus Christ the righteous (Scepter of God's Kingdom)

The Scepter is not "above the KING".

Matt. 10:24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.

25 It is enough for the disciple that he be "as his master", and the servant "as his lord". If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

Phil. 2: 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: (The Scepter of God's Kingdom)

6 Who, being in the form of God, (Spirit) thought it not robbery to be equal with God: (His King)

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

9 Wherefore God (His King) also hath highly exalted him, (The Scepter of God's Kingdom) and given him a name which is above every name:

 

[Studyman]

You said: "then gave Himself the Trophy when HE overcame temptations, is an awful judgment against God, and not supported by Scriptures"

That's your corrupt understanding based upon the fact you reject Jesus being God manifest in the flesh. God did indeed highly exalted his Son above every name that's named, and rightly so. He fulfilled perfect Isaiah 53, etc.

You said: "And also aligns with your Judgment of God that HE placed impossible to obey Laws on the necks of men who trusted Him, then slaughtered them by the thousands when they couldn't obey."

Before Adam sinned he was given as much as he needed to not sin and to obey. After the fall of man, it is now impossible for fallen man to keep God's law without first being born of God, and then he cannot keep it perfectly because of sin being present in his members making even his most holy moment mixed with sin! That's why Jesus Christ came into the world to be the surety of God's elect, to do for them what they could not do for themselves and to secured eternal life for them by his perfect faith and obedience to the law of God, from conception to death, in thoughts, word, and deeds.

Like I said, and you just confirmed, Your Christ didn't come to earth and overcome sin and temptation as a man, as HE commands others to do, and the Scriptures teach. Your Jesus overcame sin and temptation by reserving unto Himself God powers He Himself withheld from all other humans. Not Living by Faith as HE required of everyone else. Then, when He overcame sin because HE was immortal God, HE gave Himself a Name above all other humans, who, had HE given them the same powers HE reserved for Himself, they too, would have overcame. Maybe that's how you might run your Kingdom, but there is no evidence in the Bible that God would engage in such a fraudulent deception.

Heb. 4: 14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

But according to your adopted religious philosophy, this is just another falsehood, like the falsehood you preach this same Christ told when HE told men they could keep His Laws you preach to the world are impossible to keep.

Your religious philosophy is such and evil and wicked and demeaning Judgment against the Lord's Christ and His Father. You remove from Him His Great victory and Sacrifice HE offered to God on my behalf, to relegate Him as a fraud who risked His immortal Life for no one. And this Jesus you promote is not taught in Scriptures at all. Truly He is despised and rejected by this world's religions you have adopted, so much that you must create "another Jesus" who only pretended to come in the flesh.

That is your image of God. But that isn't the Christ of the Bible. And I will not join you in your wicked Judgments against Him and His Father.

You once preached down to me:

"Studyman, according to you, God created Adam and Eve with "a mind/heart" that was evil from the start, since you reject that their temptation came from outside of them".

First, I never said the "Temptation" didn't come from outside. I said the "Choice" to be drawn away by the Temptation, came from within, not from without. And this, because the Jesus "of the bible" said there is no temptation from without that can defile me or Eve or Adam. It doesn't matter if it's Red Bakers voice, Benny Hinn's voice, or a talking snake. Outside preaching cannot defile me, unless I choose to live by it, over Living By the Word of God as Jesus instructs. And that's a free will choice I make from within.

It's the free will choice from within, that defiles men, not a voice or woman or pig or double pay on the Sabbaths, or eating with unwashed hands. You don't believe these things because your Jesus is not the Jesus "of the Bible".

What you refuse to accept, is that it wasn't Evil for God to give Adam and Eve the Ability to "Choose" to listen to Him, or to "choose" to reject Him. The free will was "Good". By virtue of the LAW HE gave them, they were given the same choice God gives to EVERY Man ever born.

Duet. 30: 19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

The Christ gave Adam and Eve the Same Choice as HE gives to all of us. We are born with the same nature they were born with. The Adam and Eve Story was given to me as examples, as it is written "Now all these things "happened unto them" for ensamples: and they are written "for our admonition", upon whom the ends of the world are come.

Paul understood this, even if your adopted religious philosophers don't.

2 Cor. 11: 3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

Where is your "Sin Nature"? It's in the imagination of your own heart.

The Jesus "of the Bible" was born with the same Nature as well.

Is. 7: 15 Butter and honey shall he eat, "that he may know" to refuse the evil, and choose the good. (Free Will, just like Adam and Eve)

If you don't believe Jesus' Mother didn't teach Him the story of Adam and Eve you are a fool.

Heb. 5: 5 So also Christ "glorified not himself" to be made an high priest; but he (His God) that said unto him, Thou art my Son, to day have I begotten thee. 6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever "after the order of Melchisedec".

Why Did the God and Father of the Lord's Christ say these things about Jesus Red? Because HE overcame Sin and Temptation by reserving unto Himself God Powers HE Himself withheld from all others?

Here is why the God and Father of the Lord's Christ Glorified the Jesus "of the bible", according to what is actually written.

7 Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that "was able to save him from death", and was heard (By HIS God) in that he feared ( Respected His God)

8 Though he were a Son, "yet learned he obedience" by the things which he suffered; 9 And being made perfect, (Not "Born a God" as you preach) "he became" the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him ( Something you and the other voice in the garden preach to the world is impossible to do".

so, in your theology, their sin was God's fault by the very fact he created them with this evil wicked mind ~ whom you call the devil/Satan/evil spirits.

Again, another falsehood. I have said over and over, you even quoted me in saying, that is wasn't God's Fault Adam and Eve used their free will to Choose evil. But if they didn't have the Choice, it wouldn't be free will, would it?

You refuse to even consider that maybe God knew beforehand, that Adam and Eve would use their free will to serve themselves, not God, as all "Free will being" if not careful, will do. You refuse to even be curious why God placed the Tree of Life in the garden, but didn't allow them to eat of it and live forever before they were exposed to the talking snake. You refuse to consider that maybe it is you, Not God, that is the deceiver. And that men can and did "Learn obedience" after God called them. Abraham was 75 years old living in sin and was told the exact same thing Jesus told me. "Deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow Him". Did Abraham "learn Obedience"?

Gen. 26: 4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; 5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Did Caleb Learn obedience?

Num. 14: 22 Because all those men which have seen my glory, and my miracles, which I did in Egypt and in the wilderness, and have tempted me now these ten times, and have not hearkened to my voice; 23 Surely they shall not see the land which I sware unto their fathers, neither shall any of them that provoked me see it: 24 But my servant Caleb, "because" he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

But Red Baker preaches no! Don't listen to God, it is impossible to obey the Yoke of Bondage, and the Beggarly Elements and Rudiments of this world he preaches God placed on the necks of those who Trusted Him.

I could go on and on. I don't think you care about any of these things, only justifying yourself and promoting Calvinism and saving face on a public forum.

But for others reading along, maybe the God who Inspired the Bible wants us to learn from Adam and Eve to deny the lusts of our free will, and choose instead to offer ourselves a living sacrifice to God, as did our Lord and Savior and let the mind that was in Him, be in us.

As it is written

 

[FreeInChrist]

MY CHRIST is JESUS. MY CHRIST is GOD ALMIGHTY.

Jesus is considered God Almighty because he is described in the Bible as the visible image of the invisible God, fully human and fully divine, and is worshipped as God. Scriptures affirm his divine attributes, such as being the creator of all things and having the same honor as the Father, indicating his equality with God.

We obviously do not have the same Christ. I'll keep mine and you keep yours.

If you find this difficult to understand ask your wife for an explanation because in your world she is your head.

Like I said, and you just confirmed, Your Christ didn't come to earth and overcome sin and temptation as a man, as HE commands others to do, and the Scriptures teach. Your Jesus overcame sin and temptation by reserving unto Himself God powers He Himself withheld from all other humans.

My Christ emptied himself of all powers and as such hung on a cross to bleed for you.... OH, hung on a cross to bleed for me
I keep forgetting we dont have the same one.

Philippians 2:7 states that Jesus "emptied Himself" by taking the form of a servant and being made in human likeness. This self-emptying signifies His humility and obedience to God, allowing Him to fully experience human life and ultimately sacrifice Himself for humanity's salvation.

Not Living by Faith as HE required of everyone else. Then, when He overcame sin because HE was immortal God, HE gave Himself a Name above all other humans, who, had HE given them the same powers HE reserved for Himself, they too, would have overcame. Maybe that's how you might run your Kingdom, but there is no evidence in the Bible that God would engage in such a fraudulent deception.

Do you think Jesus is your equal or do you think you are Jesus' equal?

In the beginning before time, God made the rules... but you do not like them.
Since you cannot understand this... you continue to degrade the only begotten of the Father . The Son who is God.

You talk and act like you think what He has done is no big deal... BECAUSE YOU THINK it is the powers of God that has
made all the miracles happen. As if that was a sin in itself.

@Studyman
I could go on and fill up every bit of space in this reply and then continue in another one.

Sometimes you seem to be a rather nice chap and congenial, at at others, like today, you seem to go off the deep end in thought.

I cannot help it you cannot understand what Red or others say.

Or maybe you do and the counter part living in you is fighting it tooth and nail.

And if this is all about predestination V free will, you are going about it all wrong

As it is written

Indeed: As it is written. Works both ways

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

Like I said, and you just confirmed, Your Christ didn't come to earth and overcome sin and temptation as a man, as HE commands others to do, and the Scriptures teach.

Well, you just either do not follow carefully, or you lie, or both.

What ever Christ commands his people, he has already given them a new man, so they can do as he has commanded. In Adam, we had the best opportunity to not sin, yet still did so. A perfect world, no indwelling sin with only one commandment to keep, etc.

Your Jesus overcame sin and temptation by reserving unto Himself God powers He Himself withheld from all other humans.

Jesus defeated sin, the world, and the devil, in his flesh as teh Son of Man. The very purpose of coming into the word was to destroy the work of the devil and he did, as the Son of man, even though he was indeed the Son of God.

1st John 3:8​

“He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”

Your Jesus overcame sin and temptation by reserving unto Himself God powers He Himself withheld from all other humans. Not Living by Faith as HE required of everyone else. Then, when He overcame sin because HE was immortal God, HE gave Himself a Name above all other humans, who, had HE given them the same powers HE reserved for Himself, they too, would have overcame. Maybe that's how you might run your Kingdom, but there is no evidence in the Bible that God would engage in such a fraudulent deception.

You quite often you border line of blasphemy against the Holy Ghost's testimony of Jesus Christ. Jesus overcame sin, the world and the devil as a man, not as God, even though he was indeed the Son of God bearing his express image.

No man even after being born of the Spirit of God can keep the word of God as Jesus did in the flesh, not even close. After Paul was born of the Spirit of God he STILL saw himself as wicked, by indwelling sin in his old man.

Romans 7:24​

“O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?”

If you do not see yourself as a wretched sinner, then you are living under a powerful delusion.

But according to your adopted religious philosophy, this is just another falsehood, like the falsehood you preach this same Christ told when HE told men they could keep His Laws you preach to the world are impossible to keep.

First, I have not adopted any religion, I was adopted into the family of God by free grace, I had no say in the matter.

Ephesians 1:5​

“Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,”

Another truth that children of the devil mocked just as Ismael mocked Isaac. What saith the word of God?

Galatians 4:29​

“But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.”

By your own confession, your flesh made the difference between you and those that died in their sins. They refused to use their free will to do God's commandments.

You said: "you preach to the world are impossible to keep"

Impossible for the lost, to do any spiritual acts pleasing to God, even the righteous cannot keep them, they at best, they can strive to keep the righteousness of them but far from perfection, because of the law of sin still in our members.

First, I never said the "Temptation" didn't come from outside. I said the "Choice" to be drawn away by the Temptation, came from within, not from without.

Impossible for their (Adam and Eve) temptation come from within...us, yes, since we have a fallen nature that is ever with us until we leave this body of SIN and DEATH.

And this, because the Jesus "of the bible" said there is no temptation from without that can defile me or Eve or Adam.

Where does it say this? No where. The scriptures do say nothing from without that enters into a man can defile him spiritually speaking as far as drinking, eating, for the Lord tell us why he said this:

Mark 7:19​

“Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?”

Christ is speaking of drinking and eating.. Studyman, You need to take heed to this, since it is you that believes it is sinful to eat pork, not me, I like meat lovers pizza, bacon, and sausage, with my eggs. Btw, I also like BLT.

Most of the rest of your post I have heard a hundred times over, and have refuted it several times over as well.

 

[Studyman]

MY CHRIST is JESUS. MY CHRIST is GOD ALMIGHTY.

Jesus is considered God Almighty because he is described in the Bible as the visible image of the invisible God, fully human and fully divine, and is worshipped as God. Scriptures affirm his divine attributes, such as being the creator of all things and having the same honor as the Father, indicating his equality with God.

The Jesus "of the bible" worshipped a God, His Father. He prayed to His God, told me to Pray to His God and Worship His God. He was a "Servant" of His Father. HE came to do what "God", HIS Father told Him to do. To Speak the Word's God gave Him to Speak. To Save every man that God Gave Him to Save. To create all that HIS Father directed Him to create. And according to His Inspired word, His God sent HIM to be my Head, my Savior. It was this Jesus that told me "And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, "and" Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

It is this Jesus who is my Advocate between HIS Father and me, to this very day.

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

I am not ashamed of this Jesus, nor of the Gospel HE had written for me.

If your Jesus is "another", I can not help that.

We obviously do not have the same Christ. I'll keep mine and you keep yours.

If you find this difficult to understand ask your wife for an explanation because in your world she is your head.

That was uncalled for. You know better. You know it isn't true based on my written testimony, Yet you say it anyway. Was it the spirit of "Your Jesus" that caused you to say what you know isn't true?

My wife and I are One, of the same mind. Yet God placed me as her head. Jesus and His Father are One, of the same mind. Yet God placed Himself as the Christ's Head. Shall I not strive to become One with my Savior, of the same mind, who God placed as my Head?

But no one wants to talk about what is written in Scriptures, it's all about tradition and emotions and "saving face".

But of course, "You are always right".

My Christ emptied himself of all powers and as such hung on a cross to bleed for you.... OH, hung on a cross to bleed for me
I keep forgetting we dont have the same one.

Another spirit filled reply, and a dig to feed the lusts of the wicked flesh. Lord knows I'm familiar with that.

Philippians 2:7 states that Jesus "emptied Himself" by taking the form of a servant and being made in human likeness. This self-emptying signifies His humility and obedience to God, allowing Him to fully experience human life and ultimately sacrifice Himself for humanity's salvation.

Phil. 2: 5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, (Spirit, Holy One of Israel) thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Matt. 10: 24 The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?

So then, it is written: "He that "saith" he abideth in him "ought himself" also so to walk, even as he walked.

So then if Jesus says, "I am in God and HE is in Me", Jesus should then "Himself", walk even as His Father Walked. Then when I read about Jesus and how HE Lived, I can know the Mind of God because He Had the Mind of His Father.

Is this what Paul was saying? Let's continue.

7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him "the form of a servant", and was made in the likeness of men:

8 And being found in fashion as a man, When was this, when HE was 6 months old? A Year old? Was it before or after HE was potty Trained? Or didn't "Your Jesus" grow up a human child? And you guys can't even talk about Jesus as a baby, except to cut a tree down from the forest, and deck it with silver and gold.

he humbled himself, and "became obedient" unto death, even the death of the cross.

But that's not the Jesus Red promotes. The Jesus Red promotes was "Born Obedient". He wasn't "Made perfect" as the Scriptures teach, HE was "born Perfect". His Jesus was God. His Jesus overcame sin and temptations by reserving unto himself God powers HE withheld from all other humans. And then, when HE overcame sin in this world, by reserving unto Himself Powers HE Withheld from all other humans, He Glorified Himself, and gave Himself a name above all other humans.

That is the god of this world, not the Jesus "of the bible".

9 Wherefore, (Because HE humbled Himself and became obedient unto death) God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

Do you think Jesus is your equal or do you think you are Jesus' equal?

My Jesus instructed me "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.". This same Jesus, my Lord, also instructed me "It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God".

Jesus was perfect, "even as His Father and my Father which is in heaven is perfect". Jesus "Lived By" Every Word that proceeded from the mouth of His God and my God.

I am not yet perfect, like my Savior is perfect, "but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

So no, I am not perfect, and in my mind, will never be as I still mess up. Nevertheless, all things are possible with God. Shall I then reject the Christ of the Bible, and choose instead to yield myself to you and Reds voice? "Curse God and die, like Eve did"?

No, because I believe in the Christ "of the bible", I therefore strive against Sin as defined by God, and I press towards the Perfection which is in Him, just as He instructed me to do. Why that angers you and Red so much is fascinating to me, but Jesus said it would be this way. You and Reds accusations bring me hope actually.

In the beginning before time, God made the rules... but you do not like them.

Can you be more specific about the "Rules" God made that I don't like? I mean, shouldn't you have something, some evidence to justify your judgments against other people? Their words, something they wrote, anything? Or are you just feeding a fleshy desire to somehow punish me for questioning popular religious philosophy of men, promoted in the world God placed me in, where HE specifically warned me about popular religious philosophies of men I will encounter in the world HE placed me in?

Since you cannot understand this... you continue to degrade the only begotten of the Father . The Son who is God.

It is you and Red and the "many" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, who demean and degrade His Sacrifice by preaching that HE risked His Life for no one, because HE was God, and God can't die. And He couldn't Sin, not because HE humbled Himself to God, but because He was God and God can't sin. That HE couldn't be tempted in all ways as His brethren, because God can't be tempted. To believe you and Red, the whole life of Jesus was some Hollywood production. All smoke and mirrors. There was no Faith in Jesus, HE overcame by reserving unto Himself God Powers that HE withheld from all other humans. He faked His own Death. Then Glorified Himself, and gave Himself a name above all other humans, all of whom would have overcame if HE had not withheld from them the same power HE reserved for Himself.

That is a most wickedly demeaning and degrading judgment against the Lord's Christ. The Bible teaches no such thing. And I will not join you and Red and the prince of this world's promotion of such a wicked judgment.

You talk and act like you think what He has done is no big deal...

If you are going to judge me, at least acknowledge what I say.

I "think" the dedication, Love and Commitment Jesus lived by in serving His Father's Will and not His Own, is the Greatest Thing I have ever witnessed. Through FAITH in His Father and Love for His Father, HE accomplished what no other human has ever accomplished from His Youth. He knew what men, "Who professed to know God" would do to Him, and say about Him, but HE offered Himself to God anyway, and that so that I might have a chance to be "Renewed in my mind". Truly HE IS the Author of my Faith. No one has ever shown me that kind of Love.

You guys want me to join your bandwagon, the "broad path" walked by the religious men of this world who would take all that away from my Savior, by saying that Jesus didn't overcome in this world by "Faith" at all, as HE requires of all others from Adam and Eve to now. Rather, you guys preach HE overcame by reserving unto Himself God powers HE withheld for everyone else.

I want nothing to do with such a religion. And when Jesus returns, I don't want to be anywhere near this broad path.

BECAUSE YOU THINK it is the powers of God that has
made all the miracles happen. As if that was a sin in itself.

What are you even talking about? Please answer my question. "According to Jesus' Own Words, Who gave Jesus His Power"?

What Spirit turned the rivers into Blood? What Spirit split the Red Sea? What Spirit turned the water into wine?

Matt. 3: 16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, "and lighting upon him": 17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

What Spirit raised Lazarus?

40 Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God?

41 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. 42 And I knew that thou hearest me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that thou hast sent me.

What Spirit raised the widows son?

1 Kings 17: 20 And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son? 21 And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again. 22 And the LORD heard the voice of Elijah; and the soul of the child came into him again, and he revived.

The Spirit that was IN Christ, witnessed by John, and John the Baptist, is the same Spirit that was on Elijah and Moses and Shadrack.

Jesus Himself said His Power came from His Father.

You believe I consider it a Sin for Jesus to Glorify His Father who gave Him His Power? And now I'm a reprobate for believing what the Jesus of the Bible actually says?

You honor me again.

 

[Fred]

I am not ashamed of this Jesus

Since you claim that you are not then why don't you point out what passages are in reference to Him in the following link.

F

Thread 'The Unitarian challenge for those who deny Jesus is Almighty God'

Sep 10, 2023

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/i-wish-i-were-a-unitarian.617/#post-15606

This thread is from what I discussed in the link above. Unfortunately, the one to whom I was addressing evaded this issue, so if any other Unitarian (those who deny the Lord Jesus is Almighty God) can defend their belief I would be interested in seeing to whom they apply the following passages to.

The Father or the Lord Jesus?
Matthew 10:28 (Him)

John 7:18 (He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him)

Acts 1:24 (Lord)
Acts 2:20 (Lord)
Acts 2:21 (Lord)
Acts 2:25 (Lord)
Acts...

• Fred

• 
• 

No Unitarian has had the courage to do so thus far.

 

[Studyman]

@Studyman
I could go on and fill up every bit of space in this reply and then continue in another one.

Sometimes you seem to be a rather nice chap and congenial, at at others, like today, you seem to go off the deep end in thought.

It's interesting to see the difference between how Jesus spoke to the mainstream preachers of His Time, compared to how HE talked to that common person. He knew their minds had been filled with false doctrines and that those who "Professed to know God" had led them astray with their "Smooth words and "Alms before men". I was hoping you might be one of the few who would actually engage in honest discourse about what the scriptures actually teach, and what is means for us. But as soon as it was shown to you that your judgment against Adam, and God's Judgment against Adam were two completely different Judgments, I became your enemy.

It's OK, I just hope that maybe, in the confines of your own home, when no one is looking, you might consider why this is. Why your countenance changed toward me for showing you something that was undeniably true. Maybe consider the story about a donkey getting beaten for doing the same thing.

Lord knows I understand the lust and that it is good to talk about such things, shine the "Light on them". It's daisies and ice cream when the Light is shown on someone else's errors. different story when the Light exposes our own.

I cannot help it you cannot understand what Red or others say.

It is because I do understand you and Red, that I don't adopt this world's religious Philosophies.

Or maybe you do and the counter part living in you is fighting it tooth and nail.

And yet, it is you who are here defending "tooth and nail" the religious philosophies of a Calvinist who promotes what you and many on this form have said for years is a false doctrine.

And why have you joined with a Calvinist against me? Because I believe Christ became a man who overcame Sin and Temptation by Faith? By accessing the same power that He made available to Adam, Abel Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Caleb, David, Zacharias, Shadrack etc.?

And if this is all about predestination V free will, you are going about it all wrong

It's about what the God of the Bible teaches, VS what the religious system of this world teaches.

 

[Studyman]

Since you claim that you are not then why don't you point out what passages are in reference to Him in the following link.

F

Thread 'The Unitarian challenge for those who deny Jesus is Almighty God'

Sep 10, 2023

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/i-wish-i-were-a-unitarian.617/#post-15606

This thread is from what I discussed in the link above. Unfortunately, the one to whom I was addressing evaded this issue, so if any other Unitarian (those who deny the Lord Jesus is Almighty God) can defend their belief I would be interested in seeing to whom they apply the following passages to.

The Father or the Lord Jesus?
Matthew 10:28 (Him)

John 7:18 (He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him)

Acts 1:24 (Lord)
Acts 2:20 (Lord)
Acts 2:21 (Lord)
Acts 2:25 (Lord)
Acts...

• Fred

• 
• 

No Unitarian has had the courage to do so thus far.

I am not a Unitarian.

I simply believe Jesus overcame in this world by Faith, as HE required of all other humans. Not by reserving for Himself God powers HE withheld from all other humans, and then when HE overcame because of these Powers HE withheld from everyone else, HE Glorified Himself and gave Himself a name above all other humans, who would have also overcame, had HE not withheld the same power from them.

The Jesus "of the bible" overcame in this world by Faith, and became the author and Finisher of my faith.

You want to adopt this world's religious philosophy that Jesus faked His own death, or that HE risked His immortal Life for no one. You are free to believe as you wish.

But the Jesus "of the Bible" offered Himself a Living Sacrifice to God, "through Faith" in him "that was able to save him from death", and was heard in that he feared;

 

[civic]

I am not a Unitarian.

I simply believe Jesus overcame in this world by Faith, as HE required of all other humans. Not by reserving for Himself God powers HE withheld from all other humans, and then when HE overcame because of these Powers HE withheld from everyone else, HE Glorified Himself and gave Himself a name above all other humans, who would have also overcame, had HE not withheld the same power from them.

The Jesus "of the bible" overcame in this world by Faith, and became the author and Finisher of my faith.

You want to adopt this world's religious philosophy that Jesus faked His own death, or that HE risked His immortal Life for no one. You are free to believe as you wish.

But the Jesus "of the Bible" offered Himself a Living Sacrifice to God, "through Faith" in him "that was able to save him from death", and was heard in that he feared;

Lets see if you will answer these simple 2 yes or no questions.

If you answer no to question 2 by default that makes you a unitarian no matter how much you deny you are one.

All unitarians affirm the Father is God and deny the Son is God.

1- Is the Father God ? yes or no
2- Is Jesus God ? yes or no

 

[Red Baker]

@Studyman

I am not a Unitarian.

Since you keep bringing up my name, then I will come back after a meeting and address some more of your ranting, jangling spirit.

You are confused, call yourself what you desire to call yourself, but you never answered directly my question with a yes or no, why not? One more time:

Was Jesus God manifest in human flesh, yes, or no?

If no, then please explain your answer. If yes, then I will accept it. But, I know I'll never get a yes, or no from you.

Also, if you want to set up a debate on unconditional salvation from sin and condemnation, I'm a go, let's do as soon as I return from a short trip. Invite @ Titus to be your partner, Election of grace is unconditional salvation just in case you do not know, it is all one and the same.

 

[Red Baker]

@civic

1- Is the Father God ? yes or no
2- Is Jesus God ? yes or no

1) YES
2) YES

 

[FreeInChrist]

It's interesting to see the difference between how Jesus spoke to the mainstream preachers of His Time, compared to how HE talked to that common person. He knew their minds had been filled with false doctrines and that those who "Professed to know God" had led them astray with their "Smooth words and "Alms before men". I was hoping you might be one of the few who would actually engage in honest discourse about what the scriptures actually teach, and what is means for us. But as soon as it was shown to you that your judgment against Adam, and God's Judgment against Adam were two completely different Judgments, I became your enemy.

It's OK, I just hope that maybe, in the confines of your own home, when no one is looking, you might consider why this is. Why your countenance changed toward me for showing you something that was undeniably true. Maybe consider the story about a donkey getting beaten for doing the same thing.

Lord knows I understand the lust and that it is good to talk about such things, shine the "Light on them". It's daisies and ice cream when the Light is shown on someone else's errors. different story when the Light exposes our own.


It is because I do understand you and Red, that I don't adopt this world's religious Philosophies.


And yet, it is you who are here defending "tooth and nail" the religious philosophies of a Calvinist who promotes what you and many on this form have said for years is a false doctrine.

And why have you joined with a Calvinist against me? Because I believe Christ became a man who overcame Sin and Temptation by Faith? By accessing the same power that He made available to Adam, Abel Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Caleb, David, Zacharias, Shadrack etc.?



It's about what the God of the Bible teaches, VS what the religious system of this world teaches.

 

[FreeInChrist]

It's interesting to see the difference between how Jesus spoke to the mainstream preachers of His Time, compared to how HE talked to that common person. He knew their minds had been filled with false doctrines and that those who "Professed to know God" had led them astray with their "Smooth words and "Alms before men". I was hoping you might be one of the few who would actually engage in honest discourse about what the scriptures actually teach, and what is means for us. But as soon as it was shown to you that your judgment against Adam, and God's Judgment against Adam were two completely different Judgments, I became your enemy.

It's OK, I just hope that maybe, in the confines of your own home, when no one is looking, you might consider why this is. Why your countenance changed toward me for showing you something that was undeniably true. Maybe consider the story about a donkey getting beaten for doing the same thing.

Lord knows I understand the lust and that it is good to talk about such things, shine the "Light on them". It's daisies and ice cream when the Light is shown on someone else's errors. different story when the Light exposes our own.


It is because I do understand you and Red, that I don't adopt this world's religious Philosophies.


And yet, it is you who are here defending "tooth and nail" the religious philosophies of a Calvinist who promotes what you and many on this form have said for years is a false doctrine.

And why have you joined with a Calvinist against me? Because I believe Christ became a man who overcame Sin and Temptation by Faith? By accessing the same power that He made available to Adam, Abel Noah, Abraham, Joseph, Caleb, David, Zacharias, Shadrack etc.?



It's about what the God of the Bible teaches, VS what the religious system of this world teaches.

I am not defending him. But Red and I have known each other for 12 or 13 years and we have had our fair share of arguing and debating over a varied amount of subjects.

But @Studyman , I have never ready posts to another that were written with such vitriol that you have shown to Red, and also to me, though not so much because for some reason every now and again you show a bit of considerate benevolence.

Until the next reply and it is gang busters hitting below the belt unmercifully.

I am not a predestined believer.

I am not a prophet and I am not a disciple and I was not chosen to carry out any work of God's that I have been made known of other then knowing why I was born.

You obviously feel you have been chosen to carry your beliefs and apply them to anyone who does not agree with you.

Just by saying your Christ or my Christ says you are clueless.

Does bipolar mean anything to you?

The way you talk to Red, and to me you would think we were down on our knees worshipping Mary saying 27 Our Fathers and 31 Hail Mary's Or is it that you feel we are worshipping Sophia... The Goddess of the Reimaging God that several Protestant
faiths held those conferences?

You say....
But as soon as it was shown to you that your judgment against Adam, and God's Judgment against Adam were two completely different Judgments, I became your enemy.

My bit---- is bot with Adam. It is solely with Eve. If you cannot understand that then caome back when you are older.

Adam was merely responding to His Wife which of course is most likely the reason God's intention when pacing him in Eden
was because he knew the would be "free will" trouble.

But you won't understand. You cannot understand.

 

[Titus]

Lets see if you will answer these simple 2 yes or no questions.

If you answer no to question 2 by default that makes you a unitarian no matter how much you deny you are one.

All unitarians affirm the Father is God and deny the Son is God.

1- Is the Father God ? yes or no
2- Is Jesus God ? yes or no

That's too simple, too  plain, Habakkuk 2:2.
He cannot answer as he would be cornered with no place to run to.

The angel said His name will be Immanuel-- God with us.
If Jesus isn't God, that angel needs a new job.

 

[Red Baker]

@FreeInChrist

I am not defending him. But Red and I have known each other for 12 or 13 years and we have had our fair share of arguing and debating over a varied amount of subjects.

And you always do as my wife does when I tell her, "Honey, be reasonable and do it my way"

 

[Jim]

So then, what is this thread really all about? It seems that the original intent of a limited participation debate did not happen.