praise_yeshua
Active Member
Pitiful. You're making a doctrinal argument when I'm dealing with what Jesus actually said.
How about breaking John 8:57-58 apart and taking it at "face value" like you do with John 1:1.
Last edited:
A request
- Thread starter FreeInChrist
- Start date
Pitiful. You're making a doctrinal argument when I'm dealing with what Jesus actually said.
How about breaking John 8:57-58 apart and taking it at "face value" like you do with John 1:1.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Oh. BTW.
Exodus 3 is about the Character of God. You know the "word parsing" you're doing with "nature"....
We can come back to that if you like. You're still not defining "Person" in the context of God properly. Try again.
Runningman
Active Member
Let's see all of the evidence against you.
1. Jesus didn't say he is the "I AM" in the say way God said "I AM WHO I AM" in Exodus 3:14.
2. The I AM is the God of Abraham, yet Jesus is never called that anywhere in the Bible.
3. There are no examples of Jesus existing before Abraham in the Old Testament.
4. Acts 3:13 explicitly states Jesus is the servant of the God of Abraham, but the God of Abraham is the I AM, therefore Jesus is not the I AM.
Looks like you, just like the Pharisees who could not understand Jesus, are totally misunderstanding him.
Runningman
Active Member
Stay there if it makes you happy. Just getting the truth out to help anyone else who passes along.
Runningman
Active Member
So do you know what a person is? Got Questions says God is a person. Do you disagree with them too?
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Let's see all of the evidence against you.
1. Jesus didn't say he is the "I AM" in the say way God said "I AM WHO I AM" in Exodus 3:14.
2. The I AM is the God of Abraham, yet Jesus is never called that anywhere in the Bible.
3. There are no examples of Jesus existing before Abraham in the Old Testament.
4. Acts 3:13 explicitly states Jesus is the servant of the God of Abraham, but the God of Abraham is the I AM, therefore Jesus is not the I AM.
Looks like you, just like the Pharisees who could not understand Jesus, are totally misunderstanding him.
Those are your additions. Not mine. I didn't reference those areas at all or deny them. Pay attention.
I asked you to deal with exactly what Jesus said. You're not doing that.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
It speaks to if you believe Jesus or not. You don't. They said relative to age, that He was before Abraham.
If you want to deal with the Greek of the verse like you do with John 1:1. We can. It will not help you but we can do it.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Geesh. I explained this earlier. Just more dishonesty from you. Have you already forgot what I said?
I said... Relative to word Person, you always deal with it from a man's perspective. As such, you're misrepresenting "Person".
You never deal with it from the perspective of character. Never. You can't.
YOU have little character. You can't see the Character of God. You have a nature. That is for certain. Mixing these with God is fundamentally flawed.
You're nothing like Jesus. Nothing like Him. Nothing but words from you with zero character involved.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
BTW. gotquestions... doesn't speak for me. I speak for me.
Everyone is speaking for you. I've never met YOU yet. You're just a chip off many old blocks....
civic
Active Member
Exactly both of them deny His claims
civic
Active Member
Projecting
praise_yeshua
Active Member
I suppose you believe you have a divine nature yourself.
I suppose that means YOU can give Eternal Life.... right?
Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Sorry I don't believe you can. Only God gives Eternal Life.
I wonder if they confused what Jesus said to them here....... I wonder what fake argument you're going to use next.
civic
Active Member
100% correct only in God dies life exist and He is the giver of life. But since our opponent does not believe the scriptures and testimony they provide that the Son has life in Himself ( John 1:4 ) and the He is eternal life where John tells us dozens of times in his gospel and that it’s only found in Him and that He grants l eternal life. He is also the True God and eternal life.
He is up a creek without a paddle
@Studyman
The scepter of your kingdom is a righteous scepter ~ "Christ is the lawful monarch of all things that be. His rule is founded in right, its law is right, its result is right. Jesus Christ is no usurper and no oppressor. Even when he shall break his enemies with a rod of iron, he will do no man wrong; his vengeance and his grace are both in conformity with justice. Hence we trust him without suspicion; he cannot err. No affliction is too severe, for he sends it; no judgment too harsh, for he ordains it. O blessed hands of our Lord Jesus! the reigning power is safe with you. All the just rejoice in the government of the King who reigns in righteousness." (C.H. Spurgeon for the most part with a few added thoughts. ~ RB)
What did the Angels need to be protected from? You asked? From themselves! Why you may ask? Because God along is immutable and cannot be tempted toward evil, and not sin! This is not to hard to see and understand. Immutability is an attribute that God only possess.
God was not under obligation to secured them in the state in which they were created. Do not blame God for either fall of angels and man. Their fall into sin, proved that neither of them had the infinite attributes of God that are not created. If you have a problem with this truth, which we see that you do, then take it up with God when you stand before him in that day. I want to be there to see this.
What is so hard about not eating of the fruit of one tree, yes just one commandment! Yes I do teach that it is impossible for man to keep God's law NOW, especially so with a fallen nature, when they could not with an image after God with only ONE COMMANDMENT!
David was not referring to Christ as the "Scepter" ~ but to which Christ as King of Kings, and Lord of lords "rules his kingdom"! Christ is not the scepter, a scepter is a rod in which a king uses to rule in his kingdom. You are not qualify to teach others even though you desire to be a teacher of babes, yet you know not what you say, or whereof you can you affirm what you are saying. Paul spoke of men like you.
1st Timothy 1:7
“Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.” Listen and learn!Psalms 45:6,7
“Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre. (The reason being is this~RB) Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.”The scepter of your kingdom is a righteous scepter ~ "Christ is the lawful monarch of all things that be. His rule is founded in right, its law is right, its result is right. Jesus Christ is no usurper and no oppressor. Even when he shall break his enemies with a rod of iron, he will do no man wrong; his vengeance and his grace are both in conformity with justice. Hence we trust him without suspicion; he cannot err. No affliction is too severe, for he sends it; no judgment too harsh, for he ordains it. O blessed hands of our Lord Jesus! the reigning power is safe with you. All the just rejoice in the government of the King who reigns in righteousness." (C.H. Spurgeon for the most part with a few added thoughts. ~ RB)
Well, Studyman, I have directly ask you a question which you refuse to answer with a yes or no, and if no, please explain, but you have refused to do so thus far. I would debate you where a moderator would force you to stay on the subject.
Secured them would be a better phrase to use.
What did the Angels need to be protected from? You asked? From themselves! Why you may ask? Because God along is immutable and cannot be tempted toward evil, and not sin! This is not to hard to see and understand. Immutability is an attribute that God only possess.
You only said half of what we teach. God created our first parents after his image, and gave them all they needed to continue in the state in which he created them. after God created all things His own testimony was :
Genesis 1:31
“And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.”God was not under obligation to secured them in the state in which they were created. Do not blame God for either fall of angels and man. Their fall into sin, proved that neither of them had the infinite attributes of God that are not created. If you have a problem with this truth, which we see that you do, then take it up with God when you stand before him in that day. I want to be there to see this.
Adam and Eve were not created with a sinful nature; do not lie on those who hold the truth, a truth you despise.. Once they sin, they lost God's image of wisdom, knowledge, understanding and true holiness. Their fallen nature is passed on to their posterity.
Genesis 5:3
“And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, (fallen) after his image; and called his name Seth:”God's law were given after creation before the fall, and they were given all they needed to obey God's law, with only one exception, God did not secured them in the state in which he created them, though no fault on God but the fault is on man.
What is so hard about not eating of the fruit of one tree, yes just one commandment! Yes I do teach that it is impossible for man to keep God's law NOW, especially so with a fallen nature, when they could not with an image after God with only ONE COMMANDMENT!
I'm thinking how I want to respond to these blasphemy statements.............later
@Studyman
Stacked the deck? Jesus Christ was the only begotten Son of God, in the manner in which he was conceived, and prove to be so by the pure spirit of holiness!
You said: "but reserving for Himself God Powers HE Himself withheld from all other humans,"
Jesus Christ was meek and lovely in heart, the very express image of his Father. Yes, he was fully man and fully God, by God being his Father in the manner in which he was the Son of God, by the Highest conceiving a son in Mary's womb. All of flesh and blood came through Adam's generation of men having his fallen image. Even though Jesus was a complex person, his divine nature never play a part in his work of redemption, the two natures were ever working separate in him.. He had to sleep, eat, and was tired as all other flesh and blood, He was tempted as a man in all points as any man is tempted. He grew in statue and wisdom as all men do, etc., etc.
You said: "then gave Himself the Trophy when HE overcame temptations, is an awful judgment against God, and not supported by Scriptures"
That's your corrupt understanding based upon the fact you reject Jesus being God manifest in the flesh. God did indeed highly exalted his Son above every name that's named, and rightly so. He fulfilled perfect Isaiah 53, etc.
You said: "And also aligns with your Judgment of God that HE placed impossible to obey Laws on the necks of men who trusted Him, then slaughtered them by the thousands when they couldn't obey."
Before Adam sinned he was given as much as he needed to not sin and to obey. After the fall of man, it is now impossible for fallen man to keep God's law without first being born of God, and then he cannot keep it perfectly because of sin being present in his members making even his most holy moment mixed with sin! That's why Jesus Christ came into the world to be the surety of God's elect, to do for them what they could not do for themselves and to secured eternal life for them by his perfect faith and obedience to the law of God, from conception to death, in thoughts, word, and deeds.
"You philosophy that Jesus stacked the deck by claiming to be a man"
Stacked the deck? Jesus Christ was the only begotten Son of God, in the manner in which he was conceived, and prove to be so by the pure spirit of holiness!
Romans 1:4
“And declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:”You said: "but reserving for Himself God Powers HE Himself withheld from all other humans,"
Jesus Christ was meek and lovely in heart, the very express image of his Father. Yes, he was fully man and fully God, by God being his Father in the manner in which he was the Son of God, by the Highest conceiving a son in Mary's womb. All of flesh and blood came through Adam's generation of men having his fallen image. Even though Jesus was a complex person, his divine nature never play a part in his work of redemption, the two natures were ever working separate in him.. He had to sleep, eat, and was tired as all other flesh and blood, He was tempted as a man in all points as any man is tempted. He grew in statue and wisdom as all men do, etc., etc.
You said: "then gave Himself the Trophy when HE overcame temptations, is an awful judgment against God, and not supported by Scriptures"
That's your corrupt understanding based upon the fact you reject Jesus being God manifest in the flesh. God did indeed highly exalted his Son above every name that's named, and rightly so. He fulfilled perfect Isaiah 53, etc.
You said: "And also aligns with your Judgment of God that HE placed impossible to obey Laws on the necks of men who trusted Him, then slaughtered them by the thousands when they couldn't obey."
Before Adam sinned he was given as much as he needed to not sin and to obey. After the fall of man, it is now impossible for fallen man to keep God's law without first being born of God, and then he cannot keep it perfectly because of sin being present in his members making even his most holy moment mixed with sin! That's why Jesus Christ came into the world to be the surety of God's elect, to do for them what they could not do for themselves and to secured eternal life for them by his perfect faith and obedience to the law of God, from conception to death, in thoughts, word, and deeds.
synergy
Active Member
You are making a category mistake — a failure to grasp that “to partake” in English and "κοινωνία / κοινωνός" in Greek describe participation, not transmutation.
For example, if you partake of a banana, you don’t become the banana; you simply benefit from its nourishment. Your nature remains the same; the thing you partake of remains what it is. You don't "make Christians out to be God" because they partake of God's divine nature.
The Greek root κοινωνός means “one who shares with” or “partner”. It appears in verses such as:
Phil. 1:7 — “Partakers of grace” — they didn’t become grace.
Heb. 10:33 — “Partakers with those so treated” — they didn’t *become* those people.
When 2 Peter 1:4 says believers are “κοινωνοὶ θείας φύσεως” (partakers of the divine nature*), the meaning is that we share in the benefits, life, and moral qualities of God through His promises.It does NOT mean our created nature becomes God’s uncreated nature.
The Bible’s teaching is that we participate in what God gives (His life, holiness, incorruption), not in what God is in essence.
In summary, to think that “partake” or “κοινωνός” means "you make Christians out to be God" is to misunderstand the plain meaning of the English word "partake", misinterpret the Greek vocabulary and usage, and confuse participation with transformation of essence. The Bible’s teaching is that we participate in what God gives—His life, holiness, incorruption—not in what God is in His essence. God remains uncreated, we remain created, and the distinction between Creator and creature is never erased by our sharing in His gifts.
As for Jesus, at no time does he ever have to "partake" of divine nature. That's because he is God to begin with (John 1:1c).
John makes use of Greek-styled neuter pronouns in 1 John 1 to refer to an abstracted or collective reality, as he did in John 3:6: “That which is born of the Spirit is spirit.” We can all agree that a thing is not born of Spirit, people are. Right?
Let's summarise all your flat-out Bible and logic contradictions/mistakes:
- Your categorical mistake when you think that partaking of an item transforms your nature into that item.
- Your ignorance of the Greek word κοινωνία,
- Your ignorance of Greek neuter pronouns in 1 John 1.
- You said that "the Word is not actually God" which flat out contradicts John 1:1c that says "the Word was God".
- At no time does Jesus ever have to "partake" of divine nature. That's because he is God to begin with (John 1:1c).
- The REV translates from God only knows which originals when they dreamt up the phrase "what God was the word was".
You're digging yourself quite a unitarian grave here. The more you talk, the more the unitarian grave grows.
Last edited:
Do you even read what you post? You say "Christ is NOT the Scepter, then you go on to show how Christ is the Scepter.
You might need some help Red.
Last edited:
FreeInChrist
Active Member
I don't
By describing Jesus Christ as ruling with a scepter (Revelation 12:5), the Bible also establishes His authority as equal with God's (Philippians 2:5). Hebrews 1:8 quotes Psalm 45:6 and applies it to Jesus. The scepter of God is a fearful thing to His enemies.
As described A scepter is a staff or wand held in the hand by a ruling monarch as an item of royal or imperial insignia, signifying sovereign authority. Which certainly applies to Jesus as He is God.
HOWEVER
Yes, Jesus is often referred to as the scepter, symbolizing His authority and kingship. This concept is rooted in biblical prophecies that describe Him as the rightful ruler and king, particularly in the context of His divine authority and governance.
And when Jesus is referred to as the scepter because it symbolizes His authority, power, and kingship. In biblical terms, the scepter represents righteousness and the right to rule, highlighting Jesus as the King of Kings who governs with justice and truth.
And should not be confused with
Jesus ruling with a rod of iron as a symbol of authority and power, indicating that He will enforce strict obedience and discipline among the nations. This metaphor suggests that His rule will be firm and unyielding, ensuring that those who oppose Him will face consequences, similar to how a potter shatters clay vessels' Rev 2:27 AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON, AS THE VESSELS OF THE POTTER ARE BROKEN TO PIECES, as I also have received authority from My Father; and Psalm 2:9 ‘You shall break them with a rod of iron, You shall shatter them like earthenware.’”
Knowing that
This "rod of iron" while often interpreted as a metaphor for authority and power, it is not necessarily a scepter in the traditional sense. In biblical texts, it is described as a tool for ruling and enforcing strict standards, rather than a symbol of royal authority alone
DOES THIS CLARIFY THINGS FOR YOU?
You need to reread what I said! Maybe someone else can read what I said to help you understand!
Let me give you an example and see if this would help you, maybe not.
Esther 4:11
“All the king's servants, and the people of the king's provinces, do know, that whosoever, whether man or woman, shall come unto the king into the inner court, who is not called, there is one law of his to put him to death, except such to whom the king shall hold out the golden sceptre, that he may live: but I have not been called to come in unto the king these thirty days.”Esther 5:2
“And it was so, when the king saw Esther the queen standing in the court, that she obtained favour in his sight: and the king held out to Esther the golden sceptre that was in his hand. So Esther drew near, and touched the top of the sceptre.”Esther 8:4
“Then the king held out the golden scepter toward Esther. So Esther arose, and stood before the king,”The golden sceptre is that which the king ruled by, the sceptre is NOT THE KING!
Btw, both sceptre and scepter are one and the same, just America and British spelling are different.
Similar threads
