A question just to start things off.

[atpollard]

None were saved without exercising their faith . God requires faith and that is man responsibility hence synergism

[Act 14:27 CSB] 27 After they arrived and gathered the church together, they reported everything God had done with them and that he had opened the door of faith to the Gentiles.

• Who opened the door of faith? Man or God?

[Act 15:9 CSB] 9 "He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

• Who cleansed their hearts by faith? Man or God?

[Rom 12:3 CSB] 3 For by the grace given to me, I tell everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he should think. Instead, think sensibly, as God has distributed a measure of faith to each one.

• God distributed faith to each one!

[1Co 2:5 CSB] 5 so that your faith might not be based on human wisdom but on God's power.

• Faith based on God’s power.

[1Co 12:9 CSB] 9 to another, faith by the same Spirit, to another, gifts of healing by the one Spirit,

• Faith as a gift from God’s Holy Spirit.

So, yes, men have faith, but God is the SOURCE of that faith … (A gift of His Spirit).

 

[civic]

[Rom 12:3 CSB] 3 For by the grace given to me, I tell everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he should think. Instead, think sensibly, as God has distributed a measure of faith to each one.

• God distributed faith to each one!

[1Co 2:5 CSB] 5 so that your faith might not be based on human wisdom but on God's power.

• Faith based on God’s power.

[1Co 12:9 CSB] 9 to another, faith by the same Spirit, to another, gifts of healing by the one Spirit,

• Faith as a gift from God’s Holy Spirit.

So, yes, men have faith, but God is the SOURCE of that faith … (A gift of His Spirit).

Those passages are speaking to those who are already saved and the gift of faith used in the body, not salvific faith.

 

[civic]

[Act 14:27 CSB] 27 After they arrived and gathered the church together, they reported everything God had done with them and that he had opened the door of faith to the Gentiles.

• Who opened the door of faith? Man or God?

[Act 15:9 CSB] 9 "He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

• Who cleansed their hearts by faith? Man or God?

[Rom 12:3 CSB] 3 For by the grace given to me, I tell everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he should think. Instead, think sensibly, as God has distributed a measure of faith to each one.

• God distributed faith to each one!

[1Co 2:5 CSB] 5 so that your faith might not be based on human wisdom but on God's power.

• Faith based on God’s power.

[1Co 12:9 CSB] 9 to another, faith by the same Spirit, to another, gifts of healing by the one Spirit,

• Faith as a gift from God’s Holy Spirit.

So, yes, men have faith, but God is the SOURCE of that faith … (A gift of His Spirit).

Here is how some would rewrite Jesus words below and add to scripture things that were never said nor implied.

Parenthesis is Calvinism false assertion below

Luke 7:50
And he said to the woman, Thy faith ( I have given you )hath saved thee; go in peace.

Luke 8:48
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith ( I have given you )has healed you. Go in peace."

Luke 17:19
Then Jesus said to him, "Rise and go; your faith( I have given you ) has made you well!"

Luke 18:42
"Receive your sight!" Jesus replied. "Your faith( I have give you ) has healed you."

Matthew 8:10
When Jesus heard this, He marveled and said to those following Him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith.

Matthew 8:13
Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! As you have believed, so will it be done for you." And his servant was healed at that very hour.

Matthew 9:2
Just then some men brought to Him a paralytic lying on a mat. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, "Take courage, son; your sins are forgiven.

Matthew 9:22
Jesus turned and saw her. "Take courage, daughter," He said, "your faith has healed you." And the woman was cured from that very hour.

Matthew 9:29
Then He touched their eyes and said, "According to your faith will it be done to you."

Matthew 15:28
"O woman," Jesus answered, "your faith is great! Let it be done for you as you desire." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Mark 5:34
"Daughter," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be free of your affliction."

Mark 10:52
"Go," said Jesus, "your faith has healed you." And immediately he received his sight and followed Jesus along the road.

John 4:53
So the father knew that it was at the same hour, in the which Jesus said unto him, Thy son liveth: and himself believed, and his whole house.

hope this helps !!!

 

[atpollard]

Those passages are speaking to those who are already saved and the gift of faith used in the body, not salvific faith.

Here is how some would rewrite Jesus words below and add to scripture things that were never said nor implied.

[snip false exegesis to mock and attack my beliefs]

hope this helps !!!

Synergists posit a “prevenient grace” God gives to all so that they can help save themselves, and a “grace” given by God to those that already posses His grace.
Synergists posit a faith from within man so they can help save themselves, and a faith given by God to those that already have faith.
Monergists posit that grace and faith are gifts from God.

Yet, it is Monergists that are accused of rewriting the words of scripture that we correctly quote.

• Teach SYNERGISM from scripture and stop attacking MONERGISM. (Presumably you are better at the former than you appear to be at the latter.)

 

[civic]

Synergists posit a “prevenient grace” God gives to all so that they can help save themselves, and a “grace” given by God to those that already posses His grace.
Synergists posit a faith from within man so they can help save themselves, and a faith given by God to those that already have faith.
Monergists posit that grace and faith are gifts from God.

Yet, it is Monergists that are accused of rewriting the words of scripture that we correctly quote.

• Teach SYNERGISM from scripture and stop attacking MONERGISM. (Presumably you are better at the former than you appear to be at the latter.)

I quoted Jesus numerous times saying it was YOUR FAITH that saved you not the faith that He gave them saved them. This lines up perfectly with synergism.

 

[e v e]

Synergists posit a “prevenient grace” God gives to all so that they can help save themselves, and a “grace” given by God to those that already posses His grace.
Synergists posit a faith from within man so they can help save themselves, and a faith given by God to those that already have faith.
Monergists posit that grace and faith are gifts from God.

Yet, it is Monergists that are accused of rewriting the words of scripture that we correctly quote.

• Teach SYNERGISM from scripture and stop attacking MONERGISM. (Presumably you are better at the former than you appear to be at the latter.)

that word prevenient is such double speak..
there are lots of esau type terminology like that...

 

[atpollard]

I quoted Jesus numerous times saying it was YOUR FAITH that saved you not the faith that He gave them saved them. This lines up perfectly with synergism.

I believe you are conflating the persons of the TRINITY. The Father DRAWS, the Son SAVES the Spirit PRESERVES/EMPOWERS.

John 6:44-45 [NASB20] 44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 "It is written in the Prophets: 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

• Who taught them before they came to Jesus?

Ephesians 2:8-10 [NASB20] 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

• Who is "God"?

 

[civic]

I’m sorry but Calvinism , Monergism is not the default position in Christianity, synergism is the default position .

 

[atpollard]

Therefore, desiring the salvation of all and having provided atonement for all people (see “Atonement for All” above), God continues to take the initiative for the purpose of bringing all people to salvation by calling all people everywhere to repent and believe the gospel (Acts 17:30; cf. Matt 28:18-20), and by enabling those who hear the gospel to respond to it positively in faith. Unaided by grace, man cannot even choose to please God or to believe the promise of salvation held out in the gospel.

Well done.

I have an observation more than an "attack". You had focused on the Remonstrances ... thus are focused on the source of "Classic Arminianism". I have underlined (to call attention) to the phrase "by enabling those who hear the gospel" which places the flow of ENABLING GRACE (looking to avoid "prevenient" for a moment) at the hearing of the Gospel [yet a grace still CLEARLY from God].

I do not wish to take exception to this, but merely to call attention to the difference from the more modern concept of a UNIVERSAL GRACE (again to avoid the confusing term "prevenient") that is applied to ALL MANKIND WITHOUT EXCEPTION (at birth?) to render them morally neutral. It is merely the observation that Classic Arminianism shares more in common with the TULIP/Doctrines of Grace than it does with some of Arminianism's modern 'namesakes'.

We disagree on WHEN God steps in ... the Ordo Salutis ... but not on WHO God steps in to save (the WHOSOEVER of John 3:16 and the BELIEVES of John 3:18).

 

[atpollard]

There are members here who just want to pontificate and philosophize-

Johann.

I am not sure that one can safely post WALLS OF TEXT and then accuse OTHERS of Pontification!

 

[atpollard]

The purpose of this survey is to help people who have an Arminian theology realize that they are Arminians and to help them understand that it is okay to be Arminian. The questions deal with the most pertinent issues which define Arminianism and distinguish Arminianism from Calvinism.

1. Do you believe that Jesus died for every human being?
• If you answered yes to the question, then at least you agree with one of the central tenets of Arminianism, and you would be generally unwelcome in Calvinist circles
• This is perhaps the most glaring issue which divides Calvinism and Arminianism
• Most Calvinists believe that Jesus died only for certain people, although there is some debate whether Calvin himself held this view
• If you believe that Jesus died only for those who would eventually believe, then you truly are a Calvinist and not an Arminian

Boo. Hiss.

Starting with the least held and most controversial Doctrine as the defining point of CALVINISM is typical "Doctrine of Grace" bashing.
... and for a moment, I thought I had found an honest Arminian.

[Diogenes relights his lamp.]​

 

[Johann]

Boo. Hiss.

Starting with the least held and most controversial Doctrine as the defining point of CALVINISM is typical "Doctrine of Grace" bashing.
... and for a moment, I thought I had found an honest Arminian.

[Diogenes relights his lamp.]​

I really don't care what you say or think brother-you might be a Calvinist and don't even know it-
J.

 

[Johann]

I am not sure that one can safely post WALLS OF TEXT and then accuse OTHERS of Pontification!

Some post walls of text and just wonder.
J.

 

[Johann]

X-Calvinist Corner
This page shares testimonies of people who have left Calvinism for a more Arminian theology (these can be seen below). If you were once a Calvinist and have left Calvinism, please share your story with us for inclusion on this page in an email (our email address is [email protected]). We are very interested to know why you abandoned your Calvinistic convictions for Arminianism (or at least a non-Calvinist soteriology). We invite you to include the following information:

How did you become a Calvinist?


What did you find most compelling about Calvinism?


Why did you begin to question your Calvinistic convictions?


What kind of support or opposition did you encounter while questioning your Calvinistic beliefs?


What primarily led to you abandoning Calvinism?


Our hope is that these testimonies will have an impact on those who are considering embracing Calvinism, contribute to them turning from their Calvinism for Arminianism, and serve as an encouragement to those who may be leaving Calvinism or have recently left Calvinism.


Testimonies

(Note: This page was initially taken from the Arminian Perspectives website where it is still active and open for new additions, which will also be added here. Occasionally, someone named Ben is mentioned in the testimonies below, and that normally refers to the creator of the Arminian Perspectives blog.)

http://evangelicalarminians.org/x-calvinist-corner/#:~:text=X%2DCalvinist%20Corner-,X%2DCalvinist%20Corner,-This%20page%20shares

 

[atpollard]

I really don't care what you say or think brother-you might be a Calvinist and don't even know it-
J.

I apologize for any confusion, I thought you knew:

I am PARTICULAR BAPTIST to the core.

• born & raised ATHEIST.
• attended WESLEYAN ARMINIAN Churches for 3 decades after salvation.
• discovered an online quiz that said my beliefs from reading the BIBLE were a 100% match for something called "Reformed Baptist"
• attended a Southern Baptist Church and learned about this whole Calvinism/Arminianism debate as well as the Baptist Distinctives that allow General (Arminian) Baptists and Particular (Calvinist) Baptists to worship together as brothers in the same congregation. The Moravians got that right in their motto: "In essentials unity. In non-essentials liberty. In all things charity (love)."

So it bothers me when fellow Monergists (there is no coherent "Calvinist" definition) misrepresent Synergists as "Catholic" or "Pelagian" because I know that caricature to be false. It also bothers me when Synergists (Classic Arminians or Wesleyans) deliberately present strawman caricatures of the Doctrines of Grace (TULIP) to demonize MY reading of scripture.

 

[Johann]

• attended a Southern Baptist Church and learned about this whole Calvinism/Arminianism debate as well as the Baptist Distinctives that allow General (Arminian) Baptists and Particular (Calvinist) Baptists to worship together as brothers in the same congregation. The Moravians got that right in their motto: "In essentials unity. In non-essentials liberty. In all things charity (love)."

And the Moravians got that right- as you quoted.
Not here to be facetious with you brother.


Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God Which worketh in you both to will and to work of His desire.
Php 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Php 2:15 In order that ye may become blameless and guileless, the sons of God, without blame, in the midst of a crooked and perverted generation, among whom ye appear as star light in the world;
Php 2:16 Giving heed to the word of life; for rejoicing to me in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.
Php 2:17 Yea, even if I be poured out as a drink offering upon the sacrifice and service [ministry] of your faith, I joy, and rejoice with you all.
Php 2:18 In respect to the same thing do ye also joy, and rejoice with me.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless God's firm foundation standeth firm, having this seal, The Lord knew them that are His. And, Let every one that nameth the name of the Lord depart from iniquity.

Johann.

 

[atpollard]

Boo. Hiss.

Starting with the least held and most controversial Doctrine as the defining point of CALVINISM is typical "Doctrine of Grace" bashing.
... and for a moment, I thought I had found an honest Arminian.

[Diogenes relights his lamp.]​

@Johann

If YOU wrote this survey:

Survey: Are You an Arminian and Don’t Even Know It?
February 28, 2013, posted by SEA

Over the centuries, Calvinists have so successfully vilified Arminianism that people who are Arminian are afraid to say so. This is true even though Arminianism is the default theological position of Christian Protestantism; indeed, many people are Arminian and don’t even know it, and even deny it. Arminianism is so widespread that even the strongest Calvinist churches are filled with Arminians. It is ironic, then, that people are afraid to say they’re Arminian; for example, many Independent and Southern Baptists are typically Arminian, but nonetheless often call themselves Calvinists!

Then the comment quoted at the top was directed towards you. I suspect that you merely posted a quote of the survey, in which point I should probably clarify that I am booing PAST you to the survey itself.

It would be equivalent to beginning a survey with: "Can you can jump out of God's hand and loose your salvation? If you said no then you agree with at least one point of Calvinism." Clearly the question is worded intellectually dishonestly and biased and ETERNAL SECURITY is the LAST place one would begin to define an Arminian, not the first.

That was my objection to the survey beginning with Limited Atonement (that John Calvin did not accept as DOCTRINE) as the starting point for a "survey" to proselytize that someone is not a Calvinist.

 

[Frank Russell]

When people say, they need "to atone" it tends to imply they are going to take action that makes up for all of their past mistakes.

What Jesus did, was take action so all mistakes would be made up for.

 

[civic]

When people say, they need "to atone" it tends to imply they are going to take action that makes up for all of their past mistakes.

What Jesus did, was take action so all mistakes would be made up for.

When you get some time on your hands I wrote a thesis paper on the Atonement and the Trinity. I will still be adding to it as I continue my studies on the topic. I would enjoy hearing your feedback/questions afterwards. Thanks !

https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-nature-of-god-in-the-atonement.30/

 

[Johann]

See below for a thorough refutation in great detail with your post.

See brother-@Dizerner is giving you Scriptures and it almost sound like that if any would disagree with you on YOUR version of Kipper/Yom Kippur and the Propitiation and vicarious substitutionary atonement-they are in for trouble-Yes?

Not is the Deity of Messiah under attack-but now the Atonement, something I wasn't aware of until a week ago.

John Owen's rebuttal against Moore re the kippurim/kippur is irrefutable-to this day-did you know that?

Shalom
Johann.