Blessed
Active Member
Sure it is. That right there /\ is the most un-Christian statement I have ever seen on a Christian forum.
A Personal Reflection on the Trinity and Salvation
- Thread starter GallagherM
- Start date
Amen
Um It states the word was God. It does not state the word was a thing.
civic
Active Member
yes maybe in their theology which is manology their god is an impersonal thing.
Runningman
Active Member
Oh, that's interesting that you would say that, but I somewhat agree with you. I also disagree with translations that capitalize word in John 1:1 and 1 John 1:1 because word is not a proper noun. Though surprising, it's refreshing to see you show awareness of this to some extent. However, most trinitarian theologians disagree with you. Every Bible I have seen makes the Word a proper noun in 1 John 1:1. They can play with capitalization and punctuation, but they can't change the Greek manuscripts anymore, fortunately.
My next point is that John didn't believe Jesus is God. Outside of his gospel and his letters, we have more insight into what John plainly believed. In Acts 4, John and Peter demonstrate that they don't believe Jesus is God with their prayer.
John and Peter believed Jesus is a servant like David and that they serve the Sovereign Lord and Creator. So Jesus isn't the Sovereign Lord and Creator.
Acts 4
23On their release, Peter and John returned to their own people and reported everything that the chief priests and elders had said to them. 24When the believers heard this, they lifted up their voices to God with one accord. “Sovereign Lord,” they said, “You made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them. 25You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of Your servant, our father David:
‘Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
26The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the Lord
and against His Anointed One.’
27In fact, this is the very city where Herod and Pontius Pilate conspired with the Gentiles and the people of Israel against Your holy servant Jesus, whom You anointed. 28They carried out what Your hand and will had decided beforehand would happen. 29And now, Lord, consider their threats, and enable Your servants to speak Your word with complete boldness, 30as You stretch out Your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of Your holy servant Jesus.”
Runningman
Active Member
Not so fast, John switches gears and calls the Word eternal life. Eternal life was revealed to them. Isn't that what Jesus did with his gospel of salvation? He revealed eternal life to the apostles. Eternal life is a thing and eternal life is defined elsewhere by Jesus. You're going to love this. Jesus defined eternal life as knowing the Father as the only true God and Jesus Christ whom he has sent. It's required for salvation, too. Jesus said so. Do you agree?
Hear Jesus words and believe Him who sent Jesus to have eternal life.
John 5
24Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life.
The Father, the only true God, sent Jesus.
John 17
3Now this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.
Runningman
Active Member
Jesus inferred you can believe in God without believing in him because he distinguished believing in God with believing in himself. They are related acts of faith, but they aren't the same things. So it's totally possible to believe in God without believing in Jesus. Means God is Unitarian as I have been showing you. You're piecing it together, I feel that.
Runningman
Active Member
When you haven't been around too many real Christians the truth will sound offensive at first. Stick around, you'll learn to appreciate it.
Runningman
Active Member
Probably should be translated as "the word was godly" in my best guess based on the Greek. Not claiming to be an expert, but I have studied this particular passage enough to learn a thing or two.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
@Runningman,
Would you tell me how you characterize the Holy Spirit?... and should there be no capitalizations here too?
Would you tell me how you characterize the Holy Spirit?... and should there be no capitalizations here too?
brightfame52
Active Member
Not if you reject Jesus is God.
Affinity
Active Member
How would you know who I've been around? Clairvoyant and wrong about the Trinity, go sit on the bench.
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Runningman
Active Member
I see you have no disagreement with belief in God and Jesus not being the same things.
Runningman
Active Member
why?
FreeInChrist
Active Member
From you? I think not as you do not even know what a real Christian is.
Runningman
Active Member
Calling Jesus' teachings "unchristian" is a clear sign that someone has not been around many, if any, Christians. Also, I wasn't talking to you. Do you also not agree with Jesus when he pointed out that belief in God and himself are different things?
Runningman
Active Member
A real Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Christ, hence the term Christian. Wait, are you saying you disagree with that?
Biblelesson
Active Member
He is a Calvinist and we believe in the Trinity, which is the doctrine that God is one being who exists as three co-equal and co-eternal persons: the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. This belief is a foundational tenet of Calvinism and is consistent with the Nicene Creed and traditional Christian understanding of the Trinity.
Runningman
Active Member
Hey Carbon, is that you? I thought I recognized the profile pic and hope that you will unban me from your Calvinist forum. I miss you guys!
You know me, I have studied Calvin's institutes, too, and I know he never said belief in the Trinity is a requirement. He's different than the other Trinitarians who said it's a requirement.
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