7 Reasons the church does not go through the great tribulation

@FreeInChrist @DavidTree

I think he was referring to @dwight92070, (following each post back and see) if so, then he did not hear Dwight out totally, and passed a quick judgment on him, which is really doing exactly what he is speaking against. Dwight is a godly man, seems to love and fear God.
i did not read @dwight92070 posts = maybe one or two as i have mostly been responding with @civic on pre-trib and those who err from the Holy Scriptures of Truth

@FreeInChrist, the real bullies are the paharisees/saduccees who constantly tried to undermine Christ and His words.
When they failed to do so they conspired to have Him murdered.

@Jesse Fernandes = We see the bullies in Scripture:
a.) the Serpent in the Garden
b.) Cain
c.) Fallen angels
d.) Nimrod
e.) Joseph's brothers
f.) Pharoah
g.) Goliath
h.) King Saul
i.) false prophets
j.) Ahab and Jezebel
k.) pharisees and sadducees

Question for @FreeInChrist, concerning Christ and the Holy Spirit, who are the bullies of today???
 
@David Tree....

@Jesse Fernandes said

As a newer believer, allow me to state something obviously apparent in my views and perception of both sides of these arguments. There are significantly more undertones of arrogance, elitism and intellectual bullying from one camp versus the other. Which one, is for everyone to decide or discard. Just saying, from the mouth of babes...where's the heart and love of Christ in every word? Arguing and put downs are not love, wreak of the flesh, and nothing different from the rage bait we see in this world. Further, coming from a person with multiple PhD's in the studies of "the world," trust me when I tell you that those notes and undertones are repulsive to the unbeliever and a dripping faucet for the believer. We're better, set apart, and can do better. Let's practice amd start now.

All things aside, I love how you formulated a comprehensive defense and value your input and investment. Thank you Victoria.
Click to expand...

And you @David Tree asked

Who is bullying who???

Very important to know.

Then when I said you know who....you come back with

Are you saying that JESUS and the apostles are the bullies???

Are you saying the Holy Spirit is the bully???

Are you saying the Truth is the bully???

Jesse was not referring to any of these... unless I am misinterpreting what he said.. The color change is mine

"There are significantly more undertones of arrogance, elitism and intellectual bullying from one camp versus the other. Which one, is for everyone to decide or discard. Just saying, from the mouth of babes...where's the heart and love of Christ in every word? Arguing and put downs are not love, wreak of the flesh, and nothing different from the rage bait we see in this world"

He is referencing the way we conduct ourselves within an number of topics on this as well as most other forums.

He did nit point to anyone but said it is for everyone to decide which one,

I said you know because you should....

No I wont say out here for the world to see ... if it is that important let me know and Ill tell you privately because there is enough bickering from the Bickersons going on right now, of which I admittedly am in the middle of more then one. TYVM tipping_hat_smiley - Copy.gif
 
Who is bullying who???

Very important to know.
Yes it is important to leadership here at BAM. We do keep an I on any bullying. We will in a loving and kind way try to be on top of reeling in violators.

Rules List:

1a.
No vulgarity, profanity, name calling, or slang expression(s) that could be interpreted as a suggestion of impropriety or generally regarded as demeaning in nature. (Ephesians 5:3-5) Address members by their screen names and do not mock or make fun of their names.

1b.No abusive, insulting, or derogatory language. (Colossians 3:5, 8)

1c. No attacks on another poster's religious beliefs, race, national origin, or gender.

1d. No chats that deteriorate into petty bickering, gossip, backbiting, or argumentative bantering.

2. No Flaming, Goading, Gaslighting or Harassment.

2a. All members should be treated with the utmost respect and courtesy at all times following the rules of civil discourse.

2b. No insults are allowed. Included in this are all forms of flaming, harassment, and trolling/goading as determined at the discretion of the Berean Board Team. Trolling/Goading is defined as repeated attempts through the use of images, cartoons, smileys or text that is designed to be explicitly demeaning, patronizing, embarrassing, or otherwise upsetting to a member or group of members in the community. Do not call anyone a heretic, false teacher, a cultist , satanic or any other such term.

Following there rule should eliminate any bullying.
 
@David Tree....

@Jesse Fernandes said

As a newer believer, allow me to state something obviously apparent in my views and perception of both sides of these arguments. There are significantly more undertones of arrogance, elitism and intellectual bullying from one camp versus the other. Which one, is for everyone to decide or discard. Just saying, from the mouth of babes...where's the heart and love of Christ in every word? Arguing and put downs are not love, wreak of the flesh, and nothing different from the rage bait we see in this world. Further, coming from a person with multiple PhD's in the studies of "the world," trust me when I tell you that those notes and undertones are repulsive to the unbeliever and a dripping faucet for the believer. We're better, set apart, and can do better. Let's practice amd start now.

All things aside, I love how you formulated a comprehensive defense and value your input and investment. Thank you Victoria.
Click to expand...

And you @David Tree asked

Who is bullying who???

Very important to know.

Then when I said you know who....you come back with



Jesse was not referring to any of these... unless I am misinterpreting what he said.. The color change is mine

"There are significantly more undertones of arrogance, elitism and intellectual bullying from one camp versus the other. Which one, is for everyone to decide or discard. Just saying, from the mouth of babes...where's the heart and love of Christ in every word? Arguing and put downs are not love, wreak of the flesh, and nothing different from the rage bait we see in this world"

He is referencing the way we conduct ourselves within an number of topics on this as well as most other forums.

He did nit point to anyone but said it is for everyone to decide which one,

I said you know because you should....


No I wont say out here for the world to see ... if it is that important let me know and Ill tell you privately because there is enough bickering from the Bickersons going on right now, of which I admittedly am in the middle of more then one. TYVM View attachment 2438
There was a specific reason why i asked and the Way i asked.

Did you read post #241 ???
Yes it is important to leadership here at BAM. We do keep an I on any bullying. We will in a loving and kind way try to be on top of reeling in violators.

Rules List:

1a.
No vulgarity, profanity, name calling, or slang expression(s) that could be interpreted as a suggestion of impropriety or generally regarded as demeaning in nature. (Ephesians 5:3-5) Address members by their screen names and do not mock or make fun of their names.

1b.No abusive, insulting, or derogatory language. (Colossians 3:5, 8)

1c. No attacks on another poster's religious beliefs, race, national origin, or gender.

1d. No chats that deteriorate into petty bickering, gossip, backbiting, or argumentative bantering.

2. No Flaming, Goading, Gaslighting or Harassment.

2a. All members should be treated with the utmost respect and courtesy at all times following the rules of civil discourse.

2b. No insults are allowed. Included in this are all forms of flaming, harassment, and trolling/goading as determined at the discretion of the Berean Board Team. Trolling/Goading is defined as repeated attempts through the use of images, cartoons, smileys or text that is designed to be explicitly demeaning, patronizing, embarrassing, or otherwise upsetting to a member or group of members in the community. Do not call anyone a heretic, false teacher, a cultist , satanic or any other such term.

Following there rule should eliminate any bullying.
Love your hairdo Eunice................loved Carol Burnette and Lucy as well
 
There was a specific reason why i asked and the Way i asked.

Did you read post #241 ???

Love your hairdo Eunice................loved Carol Burnette and Lucy as well
Yes I did.

Just ignore me.
 
@David Tree....

@Jesse Fernandes said

As a newer believer, allow me to state something obviously apparent in my views and perception of both sides of these arguments. There are significantly more undertones of arrogance, elitism and intellectual bullying from one camp versus the other. Which one, is for everyone to decide or discard. Just saying, from the mouth of babes...where's the heart and love of Christ in every word? Arguing and put downs are not love, wreak of the flesh, and nothing different from the rage bait we see in this world. Further, coming from a person with multiple PhD's in the studies of "the world," trust me when I tell you that those notes and undertones are repulsive to the unbeliever and a dripping faucet for the believer. We're better, set apart, and can do better. Let's practice amd start now.

All things aside, I love how you formulated a comprehensive defense and value your input and investment. Thank you Victoria.
Click to expand...

And you @David Tree asked

Who is bullying who???

Very important to know.

Then when I said you know who....you come back with



Jesse was not referring to any of these... unless I am misinterpreting what he said.. The color change is mine

"There are significantly more undertones of arrogance, elitism and intellectual bullying from one camp versus the other. Which one, is for everyone to decide or discard. Just saying, from the mouth of babes...where's the heart and love of Christ in every word? Arguing and put downs are not love, wreak of the flesh, and nothing different from the rage bait we see in this world"

He is referencing the way we conduct ourselves within an number of topics on this as well as most other forums.

He did nit point to anyone but said it is for everyone to decide which one,

I said you know because you should....


No I wont say out here for the world to see ... if it is that important let me know and Ill tell you privately because there is enough bickering from the Bickersons going on right now, of which I admittedly am in the middle of more then one. TYVM View attachment 2438
I know you are a babe. But you, yourself sound like a bully. And I do too sometimes. Best to come back refuting with Scripture that someone may have a different take on. What you are doing is reviling. You won't learn anything concerning Scripture doing that.
 
I know you are a babe. But you, yourself sound like a bully. And I do too sometimes. Best to come back refuting with Scripture that someone may have a different take on. What you are doing is reviling. You won't learn anything concerning Scripture doing that.
We all should defend what we all believe while respecting those who have different views and not make any personal insults or attacks on them. Attack the argument not the person. And I will continue to resist the following.

In the essentials unity
In non essentials liberty
In all things charity
 
We all should defend what we all believe while respecting those who have different views and not make any personal insults or attacks on them. Attack the argument not the person. And I will continue to resist the following.

In the essentials unity
In non essentials liberty
In all things charity
Why would you resist those? I thought we were supposed to embrace those.
 
I know you are a babe. But you, yourself sound like a bully. And I do too sometimes. Best to come back refuting with Scripture that someone may have a different take on. What you are doing is reviling. You won't learn anything concerning Scripture doing that.
Question: Who are you speaking to here? There are three names to the post you replied to.
 
Part of this study, must include promises made to Israel, the seed of Abraham, that many premillennialists thinks are unfulfilled, and are yet to be fulfilled.

When I first came to the Lord, like @3 Resurrections (I know, for I know whence he came from and the school of thought that reign where we lived) we were told we must have a Scofield Reference Bible, a must important tool for young Christians, so I went through two of them in my first two to three years, seeking to serve God and seeking to learn his truths. I quickly understood I had blindly accepted doctrines concerning Israel, that I could not defend with the word of God, so I abandoned the Scofield bible and all of its dispensationalism teaching, and sought the truth from a bible without footnotes, trusting God to give me His truth, not man's~and I believe with all of my heart he has, so let me share some of those teaching with you.

I begin my journey back in the early seventies right on "the buckle" of the bible belt, in Greenville S.C., where you have Bob Jones University, Tabernacle Baptist Church with Dr. Harold B. Sightler, and the gospel hour with Dr. Oliver B. Greene, all die hard Premillennialist, and a lover of national Israel ~ not to mention just about every church in the upstate of S.C. were in agreement with them in teaching the same doctrines concerning Israel. Let me say this: which we know all saints are indebted to their nation for many reasons, not in the same manner that they teach and still do for the most part.

Question: A Dispensational Dilemma: Did God Give Abraham and Israel the Land He Promised Them?

Scofield: “It is important to see that the nation has never possessed the whole land.”

God's word: “So Joshua took the whole land” (Joshua 11:23). “And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein” (Joshua 21:43-45).

The Palestinian Covenant gives the conditions under which Israel entered the land of promise. It is important to see that the nation has never as yet taken the land under the unconditional Abrahamic covenant, nor has it ever possessed the whole land. (Scofield Reference Bible, page 250; New Scofield Reference Bible, page 251)​

Houston, we have a problem! With these bold words Mr. Scofield tries to lay the foundation for his false teaching on the tribulation period and his Millennial scheme of a future national restoration of physical Jews to Palestine. He reasons as follows:

1. God never gave the whole land to Israel, so there must be a time in the future when He will give them the whole land.

2. God never gave the land to Israel under his so-called unconditional Abrahamic covenant, so there must be a time in the future when He will give it to them unconditionally.

3. Since the present age is the “parenthesis” of the Church, this future restoration must occur after the Rapture – with a seven year period of tribulation FOR ISRAEL and then during a 1000-year reign of Christ in Jerusalem.

THUS SAITH THE LORD

I) God promised the land to Abraham personally (Genesis 13:15-18 17; 17:8). Consider:

Abraham fully understood what God was telling him here, and it should not be hard to see knowing such scriptures as Hebrews 11, that Abraham fully understood that as far as his eyes could see, and wherever he set his foot upon that was to be all his in God promises, yet the fulfillment was to be understood IN THE WORLD TO COME! (Hebrews 2:5) not in the middle east which is a pitiful replacement for the New earth and New heaven that is to be the fulfillment of God's promises to Abraham and all of the SPIRITUAL seed of Jesus Christ whom Abraham was a part of!

2) God promised the land to Abraham’s seed, which we know to be CHRIST~Galatians 3 (Genesis 12:7; 13:15; 15:18-21; 17:8; 26:1-5; 28:13-14).

3) Abraham never received even one foot of ground in Canaan as a gift from God (Acts 7:5); he even had to buy a burial place for Sarah (Genesis 23:1-20). He was a stranger in Canaan, and he lived the life of a nomad in tents (Hebrews 11:9).

4) Abraham knew God intended heaven by the promise of the land (Hebrews 11:13). He saw the promise of heaven afar off; he was persuaded of it; he embraced this superior fulfillment; and he acknowledged that he was a stranger and pilgrim in Canaan. He set his affection on things above rather than on things on the earth (Colossians 3:1-4); He saw the day of Jesus Christ and desired it (John 8:56).

I'll finish later.
 
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5) Abraham didn’t want the physical land of Canaan (Hebrews 11:10, 14-16). Could it be any plainer? He wanted the promise of the New earth, and heaven, the world to come. . Who would want a piece of inferior ground just to grow old and die? God promised him a NEW earth and eternal life. He looked for a city with real foundations – built by God, not some temporal city of Canaan. He desired a far better country than Canaan: he desired a heavenly country and the friends of the heavenly Jerusalem – even Mount Zion, where his Friend God dwelt (Hebrews 12:22-23).

6) God intended the promises to Abraham spiritually. Abraham understood them spiritually; he believed them spiritually; and he preferred the infinite superiority of new earth to the earthly country of Canaan. He walked by faith (2nd Corinthians 4:17 – 5:8). Did God keep His promise to Abraham by giving him heaven instead of Canaan? If I promise you $10 but give you $1,000,000 instead, did I keep my promise? Of course! God fulfilled His promise infinitely better with heaven.

7) The promises made to Abraham and his Seed are truly fulfilled in Jesus Christ, for He is the true Seed of Abraham (Galatians 3:16). This fact is extremely important and conclusive in any promises to Abraham. And the true heirs of the promises are those in Jesus Christ known by faith – the children of Abraham "by God’s definition" (Galatians 3:7, 28-29). God’s promises are not fulfilled in the fleshly descendants of Abraham, who were never the children of God (Romans 9:6-8; Revelation 3:9).

8) Nevertheless, national Israel did indeed receive the whole land just as promised. Not a single aspect or dimensional compromise was made. They received everything ever promised (Joshua 11:23; 21:43-45; 23:14-15; 1st Kings 8:34, 56; Nehemiah 9:7-8, 22-25; Exodus 23:27-31; Numbers 34:1-15; Deut 11:22-25; Psalm 44:1-3; 105:43-45; 135:10-12; Acts 7:45; Joshua 2:24; jos 3:9-11; 22:4; 24:13; 2nd Chronicles 6:25; Jeremiah 32:21-23).

9) The true Jew is a regenerated person of any race (Rom 2:28-29; John 1:47). Christ united Jews and Gentiles into one body and kingdom by His blood (Eph 2:11-22; I Peter 2:4-10). The tabernacle of David has been rebuilt with Gentiles (Acts 15:13-18). No longer is there any difference between Jews and Gentiles (Gal 3:28; Col 3:11). Now saved Gentiles are as Isaac, the promised sons of heaven; and fleshly Jews are as Ishmael, the rejected sons of hell (Gal 4:21-31).

10) Mr. Scofield’s scheme of a future restoration of fleshly, national Israel to world preeminence is a Jewish fable and lie that Paul condemned (Titus 1:14). God took the kingdom from the Jews and gave it to the Gentiles (Matt 21:33-46). The reformed kingdom is here permanently for believing Jews and Gentiles (Heb 12:18-29), with Jesus Christ on His throne (Acts 2:33-36; Eph 1:20-23; Rev 2:27; 7, 21; 12:5). The two, became ONE holy temple for the Spirit of God~Ephesians 2.
 
Part of this study, must include promises made to Israel, the seed of Abraham, that many premillennialists thinks are unfulfilled, and are yet to be fulfilled.

When I first came to the Lord, like @3 Resurrections (I know, for I know whence he came from and the school of thought that reign where we lived) we were told we must have a Scofield Reference Bible, a must important tool for young Christians, so I went through two of them in my first two to three years, seeking to serve God and seeking to learn his truths. I quickly understood I had blindly accepted doctrines concerning Israel, that I could not defend with the word of God, so I abandoned the Scofield bible and all of its dispensationalism teaching, and sought the truth from a bible without footnotes, trusting God to give me His truth, not man's~and I believe with all of my heart he has, so let me share some of those teaching with you.

I begin my journey back in the early seventies right on "the buckle" of the bible belt, in Greenville S.C., where you have Bob Jones University, Tabernacle Baptist Church with Dr. Harold B. Sightler, and the gospel hour with Dr. Oliver B. Greene, all die hard Premillennialist, and a lover of national Israel ~ not to mention just about every church in the upstate of S.C. were in agreement with them in teaching the same doctrines concerning Israel. Let me say this: which we know all saints are indebted to their nation for many reasons, not in the same manner that they teach and still do for the most part.

Question: A Dispensational Dilemma: Did God Give Abraham and Israel the Land He Promised Them?

Scofield: “It is important to see that the nation has never possessed the whole land.”



The Palestinian Covenant gives the conditions under which Israel entered the land of promise. It is important to see that the nation has never as yet taken the land under the unconditional Abrahamic covenant, nor has it ever possessed the whole land. (Scofield Reference Bible, page 250; New Scofield Reference Bible, page 251)​

Houston, we have a problem! With these bold words Mr. Scofield tries to lay the foundation for his false teaching on the tribulation period and his Millennial scheme of a future national restoration of physical Jews to Palestine. He reasons as follows:

1. God never gave the whole land to Israel, so there must be a time in the future when He will give them the whole land.

2. God never gave the land to Israel under his so-called unconditional Abrahamic covenant, so there must be a time in the future when He will give it to them unconditionally.

3. Since the present age is the “parenthesis” of the Church, this future restoration must occur after the Rapture – with a seven year period of tribulation FOR ISRAEL and then during a 1000-year reign of Christ in Jerusalem.

THUS SAITH THE LORD

I) God promised the land to Abraham personally (Genesis 13:15-18 17; 17:8). Consider:


Abraham fully understood what God was telling him here, and it should not be hard to see knowing such scriptures as Hebrews 11, that Abraham fully understood that as far as his eyes could see, and wherever he set his foot upon that was to be all his in God promises, yet the fulfillment was to be understood IN THE WORLD TO COME! (Hebrews 2:5) not in the middle east which is a pitiful replacement for the New earth and New heaven that is to be the fulfillment of God's promises to Abraham and all of the SPIRITUAL seed of Jesus Christ whom Abraham was a part of!

2) God promised the land to Abraham’s seed, which we know to be CHRIST~Galatians 3 (Genesis 12:7; 13:15; 15:18-21; 17:8; 26:1-5; 28:13-14).

3) Abraham never received even one foot of ground in Canaan as a gift from God (Acts 7:5); he even had to buy a burial place for Sarah (Genesis 23:1-20). He was a stranger in Canaan, and he lived the life of a nomad in tents (Hebrews 11:9).

4) Abraham knew God intended heaven by the promise of the land (Hebrews 11:13). He saw the promise of heaven afar off; he was persuaded of it; he embraced this superior fulfillment; and he acknowledged that he was a stranger and pilgrim in Canaan. He set his affection on things above rather than on things on the earth (Colossians 3:1-4); He saw the day of Jesus Christ and desired it (John 8:56).

I'll finish later.
Where/how did you come up with: "The Palestinian Covenant"
 
i did not read @dwight92070 posts = maybe one or two as i have mostly been responding with @civic on pre-trib and those who err from the Holy Scriptures of Truth

@FreeInChrist, the real bullies are the paharisees/saduccees who constantly tried to undermine Christ and His words.
When they failed to do so they conspired to have Him murdered.

@Jesse Fernandes = We see the bullies in Scripture:
a.) the Serpent in the Garden
b.) Cain
c.) Fallen angels
d.) Nimrod
e.) Joseph's brothers
f.) Pharoah
g.) Goliath
h.) King Saul
i.) false prophets
j.) Ahab and Jezebel
k.) pharisees and sadducees

Question for @FreeInChrist, concerning Christ and the Holy Spirit, who are the bullies of today???
You do not want my answer for I will have to confess I am the bully of the day.
 
You do not want my answer for I will have to confess I am the bully of the day.
Well, Today is a NEW Day for us to walk in the Power of the Holy Spirit, His Mercies are New every morning, Great is His Faithfulness

Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me.
Brothers and sisters, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do:
Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, I press on toward the Goal = to win the Prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
Philippians 3:12-14
 
God has approved of us, by the Power of His Holy Spirit, to be a Bully to those who are bullies against the TRUTH.

Example:
#1 - Goliath was a BIG bully
God's answer = raise UP a little shepherd boy to Bully the one/Goliath who was satan's bully.

#2 - Ahab, Jezebel and their false prophets were very bad/evil bullies to the saints and faithful prophets of God.
God sent Elijah to be a BULLY to the bullies.

Today, the characteristic of God's Bully is this:
a.) "be filled with the Holy Spirit" = GOSPEL , Acts , Ephesians
b.) "be sly as serpents but harmless as Doves" = Matt 10:16
c.) "Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you" - Luke 10:19

There are people who would say of me that I have been a Bully!!!

Truly i have = against those who speak from the mouth of "respect of persons" and preach/teach error that divides the Body
 
I dont think you have. I actually do not think anyone on here has by definition of a bully.

Cambridge
A bully is someone who hurts or frightens another person, often repeatedly, and may force them to do things they do not want to do. This behavior typically involves a power imbalance, where the bully uses their strength or influence to dominate the victim.

If you are vigorously defending yourself or a principle you hold firm to ... that is not bullying. No to me.

If you are falsely accusing someone of something or challenging their faith and salvation... meant to hurt or strike fear in another then yes.

But no one should just lay down and let someone walk over them.

But that is why we have the fabulous admin and mods we have. To tone us down when necessary
 
I dont think you have. I actually do not think anyone on here has by definition of a bully.

If you are vigorously defending yourself or a principle you hold firm to ... that is not bullying. No to me.

If you are falsely accusing someone of something or challenging their faith and salvation... meant to hurt or strike fear in another then yes.
Your statements in that i made bold are: Quantified and covered/contained in Post 256
 
@DavidTree
Where/how did you come up with: "The Palestinian Covenant"
David, it was not me, but C. I. Scofield that used that term.
The Palestinian Covenant gives the conditions under which Israel entered the land of promise. It is important to see that the nation has never as yet taken the land under the unconditional Abrahamic covenant, nor has it ever possessed the whole land. (Scofield Reference Bible, page 250; New Scofield Reference Bible, page 251)
They used their own term, and folk like goats just follow whoever comes along with foods! Goats are natural foragers, and their desire for new and interesting food is a powerful instinct to drawn them even to strangers.
 
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