7 Reasons the church does not go through the great tribulation

[Victoria]

Let us consider the Mark of the beast, or, his number for it is a number of a man void of the Spirit of God.

What we can know for certain is that the man of sin will be a political figure, & the false prophet will be a religious figure.

They kept on about a New World Order for the longest time, & now they call it The Great Reset/Golden Age.
One World... Government, Religion, & Economy system. The lost will not be able to buy, or sell w/out the mark.

Exciting times we've been living in, huh? I'm just anticipating Jesus coming to take His body home

 

[DavidTree]

Correct, which is why Jesus Christ told Israel she must be "born again." She was born a first time (Exodus 4:22).

Nowhere in the apostle Paul's epistles does he say we'll be inheriting an earthly kingdom.
The heavens, however, yes! (2 Corinthians 5:1; Colossians 3:1-4)

Israel Is Not Cast Away

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." Romans 1:1

"I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy." Romans 11:11

"And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee." Romans 11:17-21

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." Romans 11:25

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I SHALL take away their sins." Romans 11:26-27

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;" Acts 3:19

"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband... And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife." Revelation 21:2; 9

The New Jerusalem

"Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:.. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." Revelation 21:11-12; 14

Twelves apostles??? Where's the apostle Paul??? He's IN HEAVEN w/ the Body of Christ

So which tribe are you from? I don't see any proof that the Body of Christ has God's law (new covenant) written in their hearts,
& minds

My wonderful Sister in Christ Victoria,
A little background:
I was born and raised a Catholic but I also grew up in a Jewish community with it's own temple - now they have two.
Many of my friends were and are Jewish.
My beautiful wife is Jewish - which means our six children are Jewish

This little David was Born-Again thru the Spirit and the Blood of Christ at the age of 23 = more then 35 years ago!

Two local rabbis visit our home two to three times a week = we love them!
My wife and I share the Gospel from the Torah and the OT Prophets.
Two weeks ago the younger of the two, Samuel/40 received YESHUA/JESUS into his heart.
I met with him last week and answered many questions as well as encouraging him to read the Gospel of John and pray for the Baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Today we met again = Samuel has read thru John and is now in Matthew - HalleluYAH
Samuel can now SEE from the Gospel who his MESSIAH is from the promise God made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
We prayed today for REVIVAL to break out in this Jewish/Gentile community.

1st = Victoria, PLEASE join us in prayer, in this petition before our Heavenly FATHER and the LORD Jesus Christ

2nd - The nation that JESUS gave the kingdom to is clearly defined and stated in the NT Scriptures.
Apostle John spoke of this nation = John ch1 and ch10
Apostle Peter identified this nation = 1 Peter chapters 1 & 2
Apostle Paul identified this nation = even in Romans chapter 11 and in Galatians and Ephesians

 

[3 Resurrections]

Bible study friends, I want you to know there is plenty of evidence in God’s Word assuring us we will not go through the tribulation.

That's true - we surely won't, because the period titled the "Great Tribulation" in Matt. 24:21 was destined for Christ's own first-century generation of Jewish citizens. That "Great tribulation" began in late AD 66 from the time the disciples saw "Jerusalem surrounded by armies" under Cestius Gallus (same thing as the AOD), and lasted until Jerusalem and the temple were finally destroyed and the cities of Israel conquered by the Romans by AD 70.

Luke 21:36 "Be always on the watch,and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”: This verse tells us to be watchful before the tribulation so that we may be ready to escape it.

I underlined the important part of your scripture quote above because this statement of Christ was specifically applicable to the first-century disciples' lifetime - not ours. That entire list of disasters and events from Luke 21:8-35 was included in what was "ABOUT TO happen" to the disciples' own generation in that first-century time frame.

The only reason they were to "watch" was so that any believers who happened to be in either Judea or Jerusalem could immediately flee to the mountains once they saw the armies surrounding Jerusalem, to avoid the plagues that would then be poured out on that wicked generation who had been the betrayers and murderers of Christ. If we consider the body counts of casualty lists from this late AD 66-70 time frame compared to the census record taken in Jerusalem at Passover in AD 66, it shows that around 1-1/4 million people must have heeded Christ's warning and fled the country to safer locations to wait out the war and its carnage.

 

[Victoria]

My wonderful Sister in Christ Victoria,
A little background:
I was born and raised a Catholic but I also grew up in a Jewish community with it's own temple - now they have two.
Many of my friends were and are Jewish.
My beautiful wife is Jewish - which means our six children are Jewish

This little David was Born-Again thru the Spirit and the Blood of Christ at the age of 23 = more then 35 years ago!

Greetings, David!

What is it that you now believe, scriptural-wise, since leaving the RCC?

A little background on me:
I was born, & raised in a non-religious environment. My great aunt was a Catholic (not a devout one), but never taught me Catholic doctrine, just planted a seed (knowing about God) in me. I used to watch her pray the rosary as a kid, & put up the manger around Christmas along w/ other old-fashioned, but beautiful, decorations. Fond memories. What made her stand out from everyone else in my family was her honesty, manners, & morals.

I later came to Christ Jesus on my own. I was able to approach the scriptures w/ a fresh set of eyes, no bias, no indoctrination of any religious sect/teachings. I allow God Himself to show me whether a specific teaching lines up w/ His Word, or not. Someone once told me the Bible has errors. Upon looking into this claim, she was both right, & wrong. An ex-LDS once said the Bible contradicts itself. Again, he'd be both right, & wrong. I care enough about God's truth to always search these matters out, so that I could always give a reason for the hope that is in me (1 Peter 3:15).

Two local rabbis visit our home two to three times a week = we love them!
My wife and I share the Gospel from the Torah and the OT Prophets.
Two weeks ago the younger of the two, Samuel/40 received YESHUA/JESUS into his heart.

Samuel believed the death, burial, & resurrection? By faith in Christ's crosswork alone, not in his works? YaY
I know they deny that Jesus Christ is their Messiah. I have yet to meet someone who practices Judaism.

I met with him last week and answered many questions as well as encouraging him to read the Gospel of John and pray for the Baptism in the Holy Spirit.
Today we met again = Samuel has read thru John and is now in Matthew - HalleluYAH
Samuel can now SEE from the Gospel who his MESSIAH is from the promise God made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
We prayed today for REVIVAL to break out in this Jewish/Gentile community.

1st = Victoria, PLEASE join us in prayer, in this petition before our Heavenly FATHER and the LORD Jesus Christ

I will keep you in my prayers, that many more will come to know that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, & get saved

2nd - The nation that JESUS gave the kingdom to is clearly defined and stated in the NT Scriptures.
Apostle John spoke of this nation = John ch1 and ch10
Apostle Peter identified this nation = 1 Peter chapters 1 & 2
Apostle Paul identified this nation = even in Romans chapter 11 and in Galatians and Ephesians

I hold a special place in my heart for scattered Israel, especially since October 7th, 2023. Spiritually speaking, this is God's ex-wife for the time being. I've never witnessed such hatred towards the Jewish people in my lifetime. Zero empathy, as if every day citizens, like you & me, are the monster. I know the story about Esau, & Jacob. Most do not. I know how God feels about it, & He tells us how He'll resolve things when He comes back for His bride to rescue her = the believing remnant of Israel, as a born again nation in ages to come.

 

[Jesse Fernandes]

I can defend why I believe what I believe. Let's compare spiritual things w/ spiritual!

"But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matthew 15:24

"These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Matthew 10:5-6

"But the Lord said unto him [Ananias], Go thy way: for he [Saul of Tarsus "aka" Paul] is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:" Acts 9:15

"For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:" Romans 11:13

"For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope... Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:" Romans 15:4; 8

We couldn't be under both the law & grace simultaneously, could we?

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9

"Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only... For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also." James 2:24; 6

"And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." Romans 11:6

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all." James 2:10

Peter, James, & John are the apostles of the circumcision, just as Jesus Christ was the minister unto the circumcision.
It doesn't mean we ignore the rest of the Bible. We're commanded to study, to rightly divide. This way, we can
understand God's manifold plan on how He'll reconcile both the earth & heavens back unto Himself.

The Synoptic Gospels are still Old Testament. If you place the Body of Christ there, you'd be placing us back under the law.

"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?" Galatians 4:9

"Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more." 2 Corinthians 5:16

"But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:23-26

Actually, you're right, dwight. The apostle Paul dealt w/ a man who fits the criteria for what we know today as preterism.

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some." 2 Timothy 2:15-18

"This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare; Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme." 1 Timothy 1:18-20

The best way to know for sure is by looking at what the early church fathers believed.

Jerome wrote of Polycarp (On Illustrious Men,17):
"Polycarp, a disciple of the apostle John and by him ordained bishop of Smyrna, was the leader of all Asia,
where he saw and had as teachers some of the apostles and of those who had seen the Lord."

Irenaeus was a disciple of Polycarp. You can't get any closer to the horse's mouth than that.

“And therefore in the end when the Church is suddenly caught up from this, it is said, ‘There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.’ For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome, they are crowned with incorruption." Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5.29.1

“For Enoch, when he pleased God, was translated in the same body in which he did please Him, thus pointing out by anticipation the translation of the just. … Wherefore also the elders who were disciples of the apostles tell us that those who are translated are translated to … paradise … in which place also Paul the apostle, when he was caught up, heard unspeakable words … and that those who have been translated shall remain there until the consummation [the end], as a prelude to incorruptibility.” Irenaeus, Against Heresies 5.5.1

He's basically claiming that the apostles taught a Pre-Trib Rapture to men like Polycarp, & men like Polycarp taught Irenaeus.
But wait... there's more!

What the Early Church Fathers Said​

Given that John wrote the book of Revelation around 90–95 AD, here’s what some of the earliest Church Fathers had to say about the End Times:

1. Papias of Hierapolis (circa 70–155 AD)

Papias, a bishop and a disciple of John:

"There will be a period of a thousand years after the resurrection of the dead when the kingdom of Christ will be established in material form on this earth." (Fragments of Papias)

2. Tertullian (155–240 AD)

"We confess that a kingdom is promised to us upon the earth... after the resurrection, for a thousand years."
(Against Marcion, Book 3, Chapter 25)

3. Hippolytus (170–235 AD)

"When the times are fulfilled, and the ten horns spring from the beast in the last times, then Antichrist will appear among them... then may we expect the manifestation of the Lord from heaven." (Commentary on Daniel, 2.7)

4. Eusebius (260-339 AD)

"As all perished then except those gathered with Noah in the ark, so also at this coming, the ungodly in the season of apostasy shall perish. While according to the pattern of Noah, all the righteous and godly are to be separated from the ungodly and gathered into the heavenly ark. For in this way comes a time when not even one righteous man will be found among mankind and when all the ungodly have been made atheists by the antichrist, and the whole world is overcome by apostasy, the wrath of God shall come upon the ungodly." (Fragments on Luke (Luke 17:26, Migne 24.584-585)

5. Ephrem The Syrian (306–373 AD)

Sermon on Repentance and Judgment:

"For the elect shall be gathered prior to the tribulation, so they shall not see the confusion and the great tribulation coming upon the unrighteous world."

Sermon On the Fathers Who Have Completed Their Course:

"Behold, now the holy and the just are chosen and gathered into the harbor of life that they should not see the tribulation and the snares coming upon us because of our sins."

The Turning Point: Origen and Augustine​

A shift began with Origen (185–254 AD) and later Augustine (354–430 AD).

Origen introduced the idea that Scripture should be interpreted allegorically rather than literally. He argued that the prophecies about Christ's earthly reign symbolized spiritual truths rather than a future, physical event.

Augustine built on Origen’s teachings and helped establish amillennialism—the belief that the Millennium described in Revelation symbolizes the Church Age, not a future literal reign of Christ.

"The Church is the kingdom of Christ, and the millennium is the period between Christ’s resurrection and His second coming."
(City of God, Book 20)

Augustine’s interpretation dominated Western Christianity for over a thousand years.

A Pattern in History​

But what’s fascinating is that belief in the Millennium resurfaced in the 1600s and 1700s—well before Darby or modern dispensationalism.

Peter Jurieu (1687) wrote that Christ would return before the battle of Armageddon and rapture the saints.

Philip Doddridge (1738) and John Gill (1748) taught about a literal rapture and millennial reign.

So, What Does It Mean Today?​

That belief in a literal future millennium wasn’t an invention of modern Christianity; it was central to the teachings of some of the earliest Christians.

We don’t need to have every detail figured out. But we need to hold to what is clear:

• Christ will return.

• God will make all things new.

• His kingdom will reign forever.

The hope of Christ’s return and reign is secure.

The early Church Fathers understood this. So can we.

Actually, I originally was going to post that article under another thread in reponse to another who holds this view.
Instead, I felt it'd be more appropriate to post this article in an area regarding eschatology.

Now, as you were. My only intention was just to share the truth in love to clear up any confusion.

As a newer believer, allow me to state something obviously apparent in my views and perception of both sides of these arguments. There are significantly more undertones of arrogance, elitism and intellectual bullying from one camp versus the other. Which one, is for everyone to decide or discard. Just saying, from the mouth of babes...where's the heart and love of Christ in every word? Arguing and put downs are not love, wreak of the flesh, and nothing different from the rage bait we see in this world. Further, coming from a person with multiple PhD's in the studies of "the world," trust me when I tell you that those notes and undertones are repulsive to the unbeliever and a dripping faucet for the believer. We're better, set apart, and can do better. Let's practice amd start now.

All things aside, I love how you formulated a comprehensive defense and value your input and investment. Thank you Victoria.

 

[Red Baker]

@Victoria

Post in thread 'The Bride of Christ'

Oct 5, 2025

The Bride of Christ | Confusion In Christendom Regarding Her

The bride of Christ and the confusion in Christendom surrounding her. Read more about the bride of Christ here at Walking By The Spirit.

walking-by-the-spirit.com

Spiritually speaking, not ACTUAL like how we humans understand the bride, the Lamb's wife. They whored after false gods.

God Married Israel, Then Later Divorced Israel. Why?​

"The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot. And I said after she...

• Victoria

I'll be away from this thread for most of the day, since I'm reading and listening to all of what you sent to me, so I would know exactly all what you believe to allow me to be better equip to address your post. I should and do appreciate your zeal for what you do believe, thus far.

So, let me get caught up to speed on who you are and what you do believe, before we continue to post back and forth. Are you a member of the church in Michigan?

 

[Red Baker]

@Victoria

Consider this... every believer at that time was well aware that there would be future tribulation, 2nd coming, 1st resurrection, & the millennium reign of Christ on the earth, correct?

Incorrect. Later....

 

[Red Baker]

Every church has some issues, and will have more when you (or I) join. It sounds like you feel that you're the only one who doesn't deny the power of godliness, doesn't dispute with men of corrupt minds, doesn't misinterpret Mark 13:14, doesn't misinterpret the man of sin, and doesn't just go through the motions of worshiping God.

I'll address your post later, after I finish a small project I'm on.

Doug, let me ask you these questions: Would you go to a local body of believers who teach premill and live and die by those teachings and "silence you" on what you believe to be the truth? Or to a church where they teach full preterism? How about a church who teach election of grace over works like I believe and teach? Or, simply put ~ who teach a few things you do not believe in and tell you you are welcome to come and support us, but kept your doctrine to yourself and accept what we teach, or go somewhere else.

Trust me, I know I'm a sinner with many shortcomings, yet we are commanded to be faithful with what God has been pleased to allow us to have, and not to hide our talents under a bushel, fearing of not having a place to worship at. Doug, it is very easy to keep silence and say nothing to just get along and be accepted. No one likes to be alone, we loved having flesh and blood around us and to accept us as their friend, yet we as Christians cannot have both in many cases, it would be rare, since most do not love the truth, only a few do and they are rare to find.

 

[FreeInChrist]

@Victoria

Victoria, while I agree with you that we must not interject our personal private interpretation on God's word, but seek from the scriptures God's intended meaning ~

@Red Baker , I understand what you are saying here but how is that working out for you when YOU read scriptures and you understand God's intended meaning... and I read scriptures and I understand God's intended meaning too BUT our understanding are opposite much of the time

This is why I read the commentaries, and other writings from learned and quasi-;earned men and that is why I have jumped from you side of things to mine....

You also said in reply #122 We get our bible truths from the scriptures alone, history cannot be trusted to support any bible teachings since history is written by victors who lie

I agree with that. The ancient historians have also messed up every single thing of importance in their interpretations of thing even though many lived closer to the age things happened then the translators of the bible...
AND Key ancient historians who lived during the time of the Bible include Flavius Josephus, a Jewish historian who documented the history of the Jewish people and the events surrounding early Christianity, and Tacitus, a Roman historian who mentioned Jesus and early Christians in his writings.

but all were wrong about everything and not to be trusted. Just be cautious when reading scriptures also because those translators did not compile the bible in a chronological order...

yet what Peter is saying is that the holy scriptures do not have any man's private teaching within them, but all we have within the holy scriptures are "the very words of God himself" as holy men wrote as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

 

[Red Baker]

@DavidTree

pray for the Baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Greetings David, I enjoyed reading your post. Please explain to me what you mean concerning praying for the baptism of the Holy Ghost, what scriptures are you referring to? I do not see this in the church epistles, as something we should pray for ~ we have the Spirit of God in our new man at the point of the new birth. I do understand that we all should labor to be filled with the Spirit, by mortifying the deeds of our body. Thanks for your consideration and time.

 

[Red Baker]

@Red Baker , I understand what you are saying here but how is that working out for you when YOU read scriptures and you understand God's intended meaning.

@FreeInChrist, we all are called to walk by faith, and that means to me that, I must live by the scriptures and that which i understand to be the truth, and not be overly concerned about why we all do not see the same truth and why there are differences among those who believe in God. We all live in a body of sin and death, and there will alwasy be difference among even God's children, yet we still must live by what we feel God has revealed to us. Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God, and we live by this faith that we received from the scriptures.

Does this answer your question?

 

[FreeInChrist]

@FreeInChrist, we all are called to walk by faith, and that means to me that, I must live by the scriptures and that which i understand to be the truth, and not be overly concerned about why we all do not see the same truth and why there are differences among those who believe in God. We all live in a body of sin and death, and there will alwasy be difference among even God's children, yet we still must live by what we feel God has revealed to us. Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God, and we live by this faith that we received from the scriptures.

Does this answer your question?

@Red Baker .. not exactly because i also furthered things that I also live by the scriptures as I understand them.

I do walk by faith. I just got my faith differently then you.

 

[Red Baker]

@FreeInChrist

I do walk by faith. I

I would never say you do not. Yet you believe what you believe by reading the scriptures and by them according to your understanding you live and do as your faith dictates to you.

 

[civic]

@FreeInChrist

I would never say you do not. Yet you believe what you believe by reading the scriptures and by them according to your understanding you live and do as your faith dictates to you.

And this thread has nothing to do with an individuals salvation or their walk of faith.

In the essentials unity
In the non essentials liberty
In all things charity

Show some grace to those who see things differently on non essentials like this topic.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Red Baker]

@3 Resurrections

That's true - we surely won't, because the period titled the "Great Tribulation" in Matt. 24:21 was destined for Christ's own first-century generation of Jewish citizens. That "Great tribulation" began in late AD 66 from the time the disciples saw "Jerusalem surrounded by armies" under Cestius Gallus (same thing as the AOD), and lasted until Jerusalem and the temple were finally destroyed and the cities of Israel conquered by the Romans by AD 70.

I will respond to this later today, or tomorrow. You do know that this is what JRC taught and the reason why him and I finally departed from each other.

Good to see you posting, your spirit is always welcome.

 

[DavidTree]

@DavidTree

Greetings David, I enjoyed reading your post. Please explain to me what you mean concerning praying for the baptism of the Holy Ghost, what scriptures are you referring to? I do not see this in the church epistles, as something we should pray for ~ we have the Spirit of God in our new man at the point of the new birth. I do understand that we all should labor to be filled with the Spirit, by mortifying the deeds of our body. Thanks for your consideration and time.

Good Morning my Brother in Christ,

As you know, we follow the simple (yet RICH in GLORY) words of Christ = "the simplicity and the purity in Christ."

Simplicity and Purity in Christ = IAM the WAY the TRUTH the LIFE = Follow the WAY

A.) Matthew 3:14 - Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him.
And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”

But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.

When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

B.) John 14:16 - f you love Me, keep My commandments. And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. -

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

C.) Acts 1:4-8
And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem,
but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me;
for John truly baptized with water,
but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

the ABC's of Marriage to the KING

This Marriage began in Genesis and the Prophecy of the Holy Spirit being given to His Bride is in Genesis
Genesis is the Foundation of all Truth that will follow = "In the beginning was the Word.........the Word was God"

 

[FreeInChrist]

@FreeInChrist

I would never say you do not. Yet you believe what you believe by reading the scriptures and by them according to your understanding you live and do as your faith dictates to you.

Yep, we both do... We all do pretty much so.

 

[charismaticlady]

Let’s discuss !

I love this. One thing you missed and can add. Who have robes?

Revelation 7:
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

N, they already had robes! Non-Christian Gentiles are naked! The naked are the ones who take the mark having received a strong delusion from God. Those in the last four letters of Revelation 2 and 3 go through the GT and must die for their faith. They twisted the gospel and made their robes filthy. See Revelation 12 about Israel (the woman) and look at the last verse. "17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." These are the Gentile believers of Romans 11.

The letters to the seven churches are in order of the history of the Church. The last four are denominations that were formed about 400 years after the apostles died who twisted the gospel. Thyatira is the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church, the two iron legs of the statue in Babylon. Jesus says He gave them time to repent. They are the longest lasting church denominations in the world. Then Sardis is the Reformation where at its beginning with people like Martin Luther and John Calvin Jesus says, "you have a name (reputation) that you are alive, but you are dead." (John Calvin is the father of cessationism, literally removing the Holy Spirit and His gifts from our covenant! Nothing can be removed from a covenant UNTIL the end of the covenant by the maker of the covenant.) Then about 200 years into the Reformation comes John Wesley who fought against Calvinism, and Jesus says," 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy."

John Wesley was the beginning of all the holiness denominations and the next church age, Philadelphia, "10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." (These are either raptured or protected. Time will tell for sure.)

But as in 2 Thes. 2, there is a falling away in the Church where things are twisted again and faith is in prosperity as in the last church age Laodecia.

 

[DavidTree]

I love this. One thing you missed and can add. Who have robes?

Revelation 7:
13 Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “Who are these arrayed in white robes, and where did they come from?”
14 And I said to him, “Sir, you know.”
So he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

N, they already had robes! Non-Christian Gentiles are naked! The naked are the ones who take the mark having received a strong delusion from God. Those in the last four letters of Revelation 2 and 3 go through the GT and must die for their faith. They twisted the gospel and made their robes filthy. See Revelation 12 about Israel (the woman) and look at the last verse. "17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." These are the Gentile believers of Romans 11.

The letters to the seven churches are in order of the history of the Church. The last four are denominations that were formed about 400 years after the apostles died who twisted the gospel. Thyatira is the Roman Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church, the two iron legs of the statue in Babylon. Jesus says He gave them time to repent. They are the longest lasting church denominations in the world. Then Sardis is the Reformation where at its beginning with people like Martin Luther and John Calvin Jesus says, "you have a name (reputation) that you are alive, but you are dead." (John Calvin is the father of cessationism, literally removing the Holy Spirit and His gifts from our covenant! Nothing can be removed from a covenant UNTIL the end of the covenant by the maker of the covenant.) Then about 200 years into the Reformation comes John Wesley who fought against Calvinism, and Jesus says," 4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy."

John Wesley was the beginning of all the holiness denominations and the next church age, Philadelphia, "10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth." (These are either raptured or protected. Time will tell for sure.)

But as in 2 Thes. 2, there is a falling away in the Church where things are twisted again and faith is in prosperity as in the last church age Laodecia.

Philadelphia church = no pre-trib rapture promised

JESUS did promise to "KEEP" them from the hour of trial.

The "hour of trial" is the testing of our faith under the duress of severe persecution and death!

Take NOTICE of the Correlation of TRUTH from JESUS - John ch17
“I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world.
They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name.
Those whom You gave Me I have kept;

I do not pray that You should take them out of the world, but that You should keep them from the evil one.

This is the promise that JESUS spoke to the Philadelphia church.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[3 Resurrections]

I will respond to this later today, or tomorrow. You do know that this is what JRC taught and the reason why him and I finally departed from each other.

I have no memory at all of what JRC taught on this tribulation theme decades ago. None at all. His church is now splitting once again - thank God for those gaining their liberty from him. Their website is adamantly against Preterism, and teaches that any form of it is heresy. But what JRC may or may not have taught in the past is immaterial, anyway, when it comes to what the Scriptures are actually saying. That is what I am devoted to. And it is where your heart lies also, I am certain.

The "Great Tribulation" was a first-century phenomena - predominantly taking place in Judea and Jerusalem as Christ predicted in Luke 21:20-22. But of course the body of Christ is not immune from bouts of persecution. "They that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution", and "in the world ye shall have tribulation...", as promised for believers of all generations throughout history being persecuted by the unsaved world. The blessing for believers is that no period of tribulation since AD 70 will ever duplicate that which took place back in Christ's own first-century generation - "no, nor ever shall be" in history after that time between AD 66 and AD 70.

The early church from the book of Acts onward was subjected to several periods of tribulation launched by the Jewish religious leaders and also by the Gentile Roman government. Christ had already predicted that His followers would be "hated by all men for my name's sake". John the Revelator was then currently "a companion in tribulation" (Rev. 1:9), which had been launched by the Jewish leadership against the believers. John while in Ephesus had shared in this same tribulation in Asia during which Paul had "despaired even of life" (2 Cor. 1:8). This particular period of tribulation cropped up after the Ephesian riot of AD 57, as described in Acts 19:23-41. John was writing Revelation as a "companion in tribulation" in early AD 60 while this post-AD 57 persecution period against the saints was still in full swing.

The believers of that first-century generation also passed through the prophesied tribulation period of "42 months" / "time, times, and half a time" when Nero as the "little horn" waged war against them from late AD 64 until shortly before Nero's suicide death in June of AD 68. God gave this "little horn" Nero the ability to "wear out the saints of the Most High" (Dan. 7:25) and "to make war with the saints and to overcome them" (Rev. 13:5-7) during that time of "fiery trial" which Peter wrote was then going on for the believers in 1 Peter 4:12 (written around AD 65). Their sufferings at that time were "according to the will of God (1 Peter 4:19).

But these sufferings were not God's "wrath" directed against the believers. It was the fulfillment of Daniel 7:25's prophecy, and of the Revelation 13:5-7 prediction of God allowing the "little horn" to "make war" against the saints for that 42 months. God's intention for the saints being "overcome" and killed during this time was to maximize the number of believers who would be able to participate in the imminent bodily resurrection which Paul (in AD 60) told Felix was "about to be" (Acts 24:15).