7 Reasons the church does not go through the great tribulation

Forehead speak of their minds in willingly given themselves over to serve the beast, in doing his will, speaking his words in opposition to the will and word of God. Their right hand signifies in being in fellowship with false religion and the prophets serving the beast during this short season at the end of this world. Just as the apostles gave to Paul and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship showing their agreement and their willingness working together for the kingdom of God.
The relationship between the Head and the Mind is a modern construct (based on what we learned about the biology of the brain). Didn't HEBREW (the language and poetry) tend to link the "heart/belly" with emotions and who we are?

[Not my area of expertise, just something I read once concerning Mark 12:30/Deut 6:5 and "lēḇāḇ", "nep̄eš" and "mᵊ'ōḏ".]
 
A subtle point, but some never left. There were some Jews living there during the Ottoman Empire (1566), that were still there when the British took over rule in 1920 [following the fall of the Ottoman Empire in WW1].
A few or a remnant. But were they true followers of God?
 
@Selah
another paste job (sigh)
I never read these btw.
You never read what? Most all this is my work, yes we all learn from other folks over the years, but like all of those who study these scriptures, some are your own personal understanding, some will be what one has learned from other children of God. I have written on this subject a few times over the past fifty plus years, and truly could speak to any group without notes on just about every point I have mention thus far in this thread, no problem.

I have a 80 pages outline that I did without any outside help on Mystery Babylon that goes with this thread that I may post a few thoughts on before I'm finished. It took me about two months or more to put together back in 2008. I have another 50 some pages on This generation that I sent to a pastor of local church, that I have in storage, that I may seek to locate. So, copying and pasting is is okay if one desires to do so, I have no problem with any person doing so, if they can defend what they copied and paste, but most of mine is my own work. This thread OP was copied and pasted, but that's okay, I like the subject that we are dealing with.
 
Civic still has not proven that partial-preterism is heresy, even though he claimed that it was.
Brother, neither will he, he's very weak on eschatology, and of course most are that are or the premill school of thought. There's a brother that's a partial preterist, that I may get to come us, he's very sharp, and puts up a good defense/offense, I use to worship with him back during the late eighties and early nineties until we went our separate ways. I still have a lot of respect for him. That 50 page work I did on this generation was written to the man who pastored the church we all went to back then. @FreeInChrist knows him "3" Resurrection, so does @Jim.
 
@Selah

You never read what? Most all this is my work, yes we all learn from other folks over the years, but like all of those who study these scriptures, some are your own personal understanding, some will be what one has learned from other children of God. I have written on this subject a few times over the past fifty plus years, and truly could speak to any group without notes on just about every point I have mention thus far in this thread, no problem.

I have a 80 pages outline that I did without any outside help on Mystery Babylon that goes with this thread that I may post a few thoughts on before I'm finished. It took me about two months or more to put together back in 2008. I have another 50 some pages on This generation that I sent to a pastor of local church, that I have in storage, that I may seek to locate. So, copying and pasting is is okay if one desires to do so, I have no problem with any person doing so, if they can defend what they copied and paste, but most of mine is my own work. This thread OP was copied and pasted, but that's okay, I like the subject that we are dealing with.
I never read the stuff you paste; that’s all I’m saying.

selah
 
@dwight92070
You're not looking very closely at all. 70 A.D. is referred to many times.
Greetings @dwight92070 ~I have considered this very closely, and even thought at one time (back in the seventies) that the Olivet discourse had a twofold interpretation, but I was listening to other voices as a young believer, seeking to understand the word of God. Mainly thinking that because of Luke 21. But, soon was settled on the truth that 70 A.D. was a theory pushed by men that had no clue as to the true meaning of Matthew 24,25. Most were just willing to be a rubber stamp Christian, following the teachings of others, without truly seeking the truth from God's word only, without any outside support (like Josephus' book on the Wars of the Jews), etc. I learned very quickly that the word of God will give us its true interpretation, if we truly seek it from God's word only without depending on history to fill in the holes in our understanding. By doing so, we leave ourselves vulnerable for the devil to step in, and give us what we are seeking for outside of the scriptures making one think that he has come to the knowledge of the truth, when he has done nothing else but allow Satan to take him away for the truth, because that believer did not trust "totally" in God and wait upon Him to provide him the truth by trusting totally in the scriptures to give that truth to him.
Matthew 24:2 " ... Do you see all these things? (the temple buildings) Truly I say to you, not one stone here will be left upon another, which will not be torn down."
Tell me, when did this prophecy of Jesus happen? Obviously it was 70 A.D. when the Roman general Titus led the seige of Jerusalem and leveled the temple and slaughtered over 1,000,000 Jews and took thousands of them who survived as slaves for themselves and even other countries.
A couple of things.

1) First of all you have no solid facts as to how many Jews actually died when the Jews were scattered all over the known world, you are tusting Joesphus for your facts~for sure they were, not so much because of that particular generation of men were so evil, which is far from the truth, since some of the most godly men and women were born during that generation, the list is long if you need me to prove this, yet I have heard men say THAT generation was the most wicked generation that ever lived and God pouted out his wrath upon them for their wickedness! How foolish to make such a statement. The reason why the temple, and the city was destroyed, was God was finished with the natural Jews, the temple and the city of Jerusalem all typified spiritual truths that were soon to be taught to the people of God.

2) Concerning no natural stone left upon another is not true. Even to this day, certain part of the outer wall of the Temple still stands. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Wall

If we follow the Lord's teaching in Matthew 24, then we must make spiritual applications to our Lord's teachings, or we will end up teaching a lie. I believe that our Lord's is teaching that not one spiritual stone will be left in the temple of God (the professing churches throughout this world) when he comes again all of God's people will flee the professing churches of the last day~or at least few will be left here and there not to even considered to be a true temple where God is worshipped. I left for good around thirteen years ago never to return. The man of sin sit and rules therein in almost all churches, or very close to all, only God knows those that are his, we do not.
uke 21:20 "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near." When did this prophecy of Jesus come to pass? It was the same event, the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Luke doesn't use the phrase "the abomination of desolation" as the other gospels do, but he is referring to the same event. His predominant Gentile audience did not understand the phrase "the abomination of desolation", so he literally told them what that was: "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near (that is the abomination of desolation)."
Brother, it is NOW being fulfilled right before our eyes.

Revelation 20:9​

“And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”

Dwight it is the true beloved city that the beast (not Romans army) shall compassed about to destroy at the very end of this world.

I must step out for a few but shall finish later.
 
A few or a remnant. But were they true followers of God?
I cannot even tell you if the Jews living there today are "true followers of God". That is a heart matter WAY above my pay grade.
They were Jewish, they attended synagogue and they lived in the Holy Land under Ottoman Rule.
 
@dwight92070

Greetings @dwight92070 ~I have considered this very closely, and even thought at one time (back in the seventies) that the Olivet discourse had a twofold interpretation, but I was listening to other voices as a young believer, seeking to understand the word of God. Mainly thinking that because of Luke 21. But, soon was settled on the truth that 70 A.D. was a theory pushed by men that had no clue as to the true meaning of Matthew 24,25. Most were just willing to be a rubber stamp Christian, following the teachings of others, without truly seeking the truth from God's word only, without any outside support (like Josephus' book on the Wars of the Jews), etc. I learned very quickly that the word of God will give us its true interpretation, if we truly seek it from God's word only without depending on history to fill in the holes in our understanding. By doing so, we leave ourselves vulnerable for the devil to step in, and give us what we are seeking for outside of the scriptures making one think that he has come to the knowledge of the truth, when he has done nothing else but allow Satan to take him away for the truth, because that believer did not trust "totally" in God and wait upon Him to provide him the truth by trusting totally in the scriptures to give that truth to him.

A couple of things.

1) First of all you have no solid facts as to how many Jews actually died when the Jews were scattered all over the known world, you are tusting Joesphus for your facts~for sure they were, not so much because of that particular generation of men were so evil, which is far from the truth, since some of the most godly men and women were born during that generation, the list is long if you need me to prove this, yet I have heard men say THAT generation was the most wicked generation that ever lived and God pouted out his wrath upon them for their wickedness! How foolish to make such a statement. The reason why the temple, and the city was destroyed, was God was finished with the natural Jews, the temple and the city of Jerusalem all typified spiritual truths that were soon to be taught to the people of God.

2) Concerning no natural stone left upon another is not true. Even to this day, certain part of the outer wall of the Temple still stands. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_Wall

If we follow the Lord's teaching in Matthew 24, then we must make spiritual applications to our Lord's teachings, or we will end up teaching a lie. I believe that our Lord's is teaching that not one spiritual stone will be left in the temple of God (the professing churches throughout this world) when he comes again all of God's people will flee the professing churches of the last day~or at least few will be left here and there not to even considered to be a true temple where God is worshipped. I left for good around thirteen years ago never to return. The man of sin sit and rules therein in almost all churches, or very close to all, only God knows those that are his, we do not.

Brother, it is NOW being fulfilled right before our eyes.

Revelation 20:9​

“And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.”

Dwight it is the true beloved city that the beast (not Romans army) shall compassed about to destroy at the very end of this world.

I must step out for a few but shall finish later.
None of those who I receive teaching from claim infallibility. The Word of God tells us that He has put teachers in the body of Christ. It would be foolish to simply accept every theory that they hold, especially about the end times. But it is also foolish to tune them all out and think that we will be better off listening ONLY to the Word of God. That is rejecting the gifts of the Holy Spirit, that God has placed in the body of Christ.

It is a mistake to think that everything that Jesus taught is spiritual, and none of it is literal. Yes, He said many things that were spiritual, but also spoke literally. I believe and have heard it taught that much of Matthew 24 is literal - and there are also some non-literal teachings as well.
When Jesus said that there would not be one stone left on another, there is no reason to spiritualize that. He was explaining to three or four of His disciples what was going to happen in their literal generation. They often did not understand what He was saying, so they would ask Him, and He would give them a literal explanation, almost every time.

You said: I left for good around thirteen years ago never to return.

I don't know what you left. What did you leave for good? I hope you didn't leave the church assembly because the Word itself warns against that.
 
HOLY SPIIRT prophecy for those who have an ear to hear what the Spirit is saying to the churches.

The LORD Jesus Christ, His holy apostles and His holy OT prophets Prophesy:

#1 - JESUS Prophesied: "Immediately after the Tribulation ......I Come and gather My elect"

#2 - Apostles prophesied: "The Saints will suffer Tribulation and wrath from satan BEFORE Christ's 2nd Coming
Acts, 1st & 2nd Thessalonians, 1st & 2nd Peter, 1 John, James, Jude

#3 - OT Prophets prophesied the TWO Comings of MESSIAH and "The Abomination of Desolation will rise BEFORE the 2nd Coming of Christ = OT Prophet Daniel which JESUS verifies in Matt ch24

#4 - Revelation Prophesies that the churches/saints will suffer persecution, some even unto death for their Testimony during the Great Tribulation.
After the GT is completed the LAMB of God Returns with the Wrath of God.
Revelation chapters 1 thru 5, ch7, ch12, ch13, ch14

#5 - Genesis prophesied the TWO Comings of MESSIAH/SAVIOR
a.) Enoch/Noah
b.) Joseph
c.) Job - lived in the times of the Patriarchs/Genesis

#6 - OT Prophets prophesied of the TWO Comings of MESSIAH/SAVIOR
a.) Isaiah 53 - Suffering Servant unto Death = 1st Coming
Zechariah 9:9 - Behold your king comes to you lowly riding on a the foal of a donkey = 1st Coming
Zechariah chapters 9 thru 14 = includes 1st and 2nd Comings of Christ

#7 - Only TWO Comings of Christ
a.) GOSPEL = Matthew 13:36-43 , Luke 13:22-30 , Matthew chapters 24 and 25
b.) Acts chapters 1 and 2 and 3 and more
c.) 1 Corinthians 1:1-9
d.) 1 Corinthians chapter 15
e.) 2 Corinthians chapter 1
f.) Romans chapter 11
g.) 1 John chapters 1 thru 3
h.) Jude
j.) James chapter 5
 
Brother, neither will he, he's very weak on eschatology, and of course most are that are or the premill school of thought. There's a brother that's a partial preterist, that I may get to come us, he's very sharp, and puts up a good defense/offense, I use to worship with him back during the late eighties and early nineties until we went our separate ways. I still have a lot of respect for him. That 50 page work I did on this generation was written to the man who pastored the church we all went to back then. @FreeInChrist knows him "3" Resurrection, so does @Jim.
@Red Baker

I can try to get 3R here again, but I have mentioned in the past and with his work schedule and another forum or two not sure I can...

I'll see what I can do for if there is any single person that knows that subject inside out it is 3R.

He has my utmost respect, even if I dont agree.
 
You said: I left for good around thirteen years ago never to return.
Yes brother, I left for good just as Christ commanded me to do.

2nd Timothy 3:5​

“Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.”

1st Timothy 6:5​

“Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Mark 13:14​

“But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:”

Judaea was the place OT saints went to worship, under the NT, it is in the churches of the saints, though most saints are not there , it has been taken over by the man of sin, being where they ought not to be!

Dwight, I spend almost my waking hours in the scriptures seeking to do God's will, I do not need a public place to attend to do what I do very naturally, most of those folks only come once or twice a week to go through the motion of worshipping God. And If I was there teaching the scriptures I would be asked to leave, trust me, I know it has happened a few times since the mid seventies. I have try a few times over for around forty years or so, only to be disappointed every single time. A.W.Pink left for good for almost the last twenty plus years of his life and he's not alone. Christ was NOT welcome in the temple during his days upon the earth and what church did he religiously attend ~unknown, yet his every single second alive was doing God's will seeking his face, etc.

One more thing~While I have left, I refuse to judge people hearts that I do not know personally, I leave that to God to judge, and He will. I give most the benefit of the doubt, yet I will not be part of a group that rejects clear teachings of the word of God, it's not going to happen.
 
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What is Jesus saying? If you will receive what he was saying, then John the Baptist was the fulfillment of the prophecy of the coming of Elijah! How was it the fulfillment of that OT prophecy? John came in the same power and method that Elijah came in and preached with! Jesus was making a spiritual application to that OT prophecy. A method of interpretation that most would not accept, nor could even consider to be true.
Everything you've stated above, absolutely. It's knowing the difference between a literal, & a spiritual application. I'm w/ you so far here.
The premill Golden Rule of Interpretation, which means: "When the plain sense of scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary , ordinary, usual, literal meaning ~ which leaves them holding to many false interpretations of God's word. To them, Israel means the literal children of Abraham, and they reject the spiritual true seed of Jesus Christ are truly are the Israel of God to whom alone are the promises of God through Jesus Christ.
This is where the confusion lies 😂 I don't subscribe to Replacement Theology.
Let us carefully consider what the scriptures say.

Nowhere, at least in my observation, have I noticed Biblical Christians suggesting that every single Israelite (Jew) will be saved. That's like saying every single Gentile will be saved, which clearly is not the case b/c not every Gentile will believe. You have to understand God's history w/ His people. They're presently blinded in part (Romans 11). God is doing something different presently, forming a body of believers, members of His body, where there's neither Jew, 'nor Greek. So how then can we be a spiritual Jew/Israel if there's neither Jew, 'nor Greek? We're a spiritual body, one new man, not a spiritual nation. (Galatians 3:28; Colossians 3:11; Ephesians 2:15; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 6:15) Also, something new cannot be born again, only something that previously existed (Exodus 4:22).

I also do not subscribe to the Body of Christ being the bride, the Lamb's wife, 'nor do I believe the Body of Christ will return w/ Jesus Christ at His second coming to reign w/ Him in the Millennium kingdom. God has different purposes for Israel, the earth, the Body of Christ, & the heavens. If you don't rightly divide like God commands, you end up mixing ministries. In some cases, mixing them together entirely. I'll let the scriptures in the link below prove that God hasn't replaced Israel w/ the Body of Christ.


https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-bride-of-christ.2655/#post-202035
Why would any child of God not approach the book of Revelation with this mindset, knowing the highly symbolical language used therein? The word of God overall will help us to interpret such books by comparing the scripture with scriptures and allowing them to provide for us the true biblical interpretation, as we are commanded to do.
There is nothing wrong w/ Christians studying eschatology. Because most don't rightly divide, they place themselves in the Hebrew epistles. Jesus told us who His audience is, same w/ Jesus stating the audience of the twelve. The apostle Paul is our apostle. We follow God today through Paul, as Israel followed God through Moses, then Jesus Christ, & now the twelve (Matthew 10:5-5; Matthew 15:24; Acts 9:15; Romans 15:8; Romans 11:13; Galatians 2:8; 1 Timothy 2:7; 2 Timothy 1:11;
1 Peter 1:1; James 1:1; Galatians 2:9)
. This cleared up SO much confusion for me.


"And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me (Paul), they gave to me (Paul) and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision."
Galatians 2:9

Isaiah 28:9.10​

“Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:”
Excellent scripture, yes! :) Let's not forget what Peter also said. Even the twelve recognized Paul's ministry was different than Peter's.

"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-16


Origen: The Father of Allegorical Interpretation:
https://berean-apologetics.communit...ms-of-the-sons-deity.2185/page-97#post-202412
 
Everything you've stated above, absolutely. It's knowing the difference between a literal, & a spiritual application. I'm w/ you so far here.

This is where the confusion lies 😂 I don't subscribe to Replacement Theology.
Let us carefully consider what the scriptures say.

Nowhere, at least in my observation, have I noticed Biblical Christians suggesting that every single Israelite (Jew) will be saved. That's like saying every single Gentile will be saved, which clearly is not the case b/c not every Gentile will believe. You have to understand God's history w/ His people. They're presently blinded in part (Romans 11). God is doing something different presently, forming a body of believers, members of His body, where there's neither Jew, 'nor Greek. So how then can we be a spiritual Jew/Israel if there's neither Jew, 'nor Greek? We're a spiritual body, one new man, not a spiritual nation. (Galatians 3:28; Colossians 3:11; Ephesians 2:15; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Galatians 6:15) Also, something new cannot be born again, only something that previously existed (Exodus 4:22).

I also do not subscribe to the Body of Christ being the bride, the Lamb's wife, 'nor do I believe the Body of Christ will return w/ Jesus Christ at His second coming to reign w/ Him in the Millennium kingdom. God has different purposes for Israel, the earth, the Body of Christ, & the heavens. If you don't rightly divide like God commands, you end up mixing ministries. In some cases, mixing them together entirely. I'll let the scriptures in the link below prove that God hasn't replaced Israel w/ the Body of Christ.


https://berean-apologetics.community.forum/threads/the-bride-of-christ.2655/#post-202035

There is nothing wrong w/ Christians studying eschatology. Because most don't rightly divide, they place themselves in the Hebrew epistles. Jesus told us who His audience is, same w/ Jesus stating the audience of the twelve. The apostle Paul is our apostle. We follow God today through Paul, as Israel followed God through Moses, then Jesus Christ, & now the twelve (Matthew 10:5-5; Matthew 15:24; Acts 9:15; Romans 15:8; Romans 11:13; Galatians 2:8; 1 Timothy 2:7; 2 Timothy 1:11;
1 Peter 1:1; James 1:1; Galatians 2:9)
. This cleared up SO much confusion for me.


"And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me (Paul), they gave to me (Paul) and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision."
Galatians 2:9

Excellent scripture, yes! :) Let's not forget what Peter also said. Even the twelve recognized Paul's ministry was different than Peter's.

"And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-16


Origen: The Father of Allegorical Interpretation:
https://berean-apologetics.communit...ms-of-the-sons-deity.2185/page-97#post-202412
You need to believe as JESUS commanded us.

You have Truth mixed with error concerning:
a.) Israel of the flesh
b.) The Israel of God
c.) the Bride and Body of Christ
d.) Exactly what JESUS said to the Jewish people as a nation
e.) Exactly what JESUS says of us who are in HIM

Example: You said you do not believe the Jewish people were replaced by the Body of Christ.
In part you are correct = the Church does not become the nation Israel on earth in flesh form
Here is where you drift away from TRUTH = you separate the saved Jew from the saved Gentile in the Promises of God

Listen to JESUS exact words concerning the Jewish nation on earth = Matt 23:37-39
Hear another parable: There was a certain landowner who planted a vineyard and set a hedge around it, dug a winepress in it and built a tower. And he leased it to vinedressers and went into a far country. Now when vintage-time drew near, he sent his servants to the vinedressers, that they might receive its fruit. And the vinedressers took his servants, beat one, killed one, and stoned another. Again he sent other servants, more than the first, and they did likewise to them. Then last of all he sent his son to them, saying, ‘They will respect my son.’ But when the vinedressers saw the son, they said among themselves, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and seize his inheritance.’ So they took him and cast him out of the vineyard and killed him.

“Therefore, when the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”

They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures:

‘The stone which the builders rejected
Has become the chief cornerstone.
This was the Lord’s doing,
And it is marvelous in our eyes’?
“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
And whoever falls on this stone will be broken; but on whomever it falls, it will grind him to powder.”

Now when the chief priests and Pharisees heard His parables, they perceived that He was speaking of them.

The LORD Jesus Christ replaced the nation Israel on earth with another nation where HE is their KING.

Listen to JESUS = Matthew 23:37-39


“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and [m]adorn the monuments of the righteous, and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’

“Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets.
Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!
See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”


@Victoria Listen to JESUS who only speaks Truth, so please do this:
Find the Nation which Christ gave the Kingdom to = It is in the Bible/NT Scriptures
 
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Victoria, these are wonderful scriptures, which speaks of our security IN Christ knowing that our life is hid WITH Christ IN God, that's as secured as one can possibly be. But, another truth is here and it is this: Christ's coming is ALWAYS a revelation coming never a secret coming, "never"!
You're not familiar w/ the revelation of the mystery Jesus had given to the apostle Paul (Romans 11:25; Romans 16:25; Esphesians 3:3; 1 Corinthians 15:51; Ephesians 1:9; etc.). The wisdom below God speaks of is a mystery, hidden "aka" it was kept a secret. Question is, why?

"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:"
1 Corinthians 2:7

"Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:"
Colossians 1:25-26

Consider this... every believer at that time was well aware that there would be future tribulation, 2nd coming, 1st resurrection, & the millennium reign of Christ on the earth, correct?
Can you then figure out why the church was so surprised, & troubled? Really, unless there was something God kept hid w/in Himself until He revealed it to the apostle Paul for the Body of Christ... this whole mystery stuff doesn't make any sense :unsure:

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some." 2 Timothy 2:15-18

"This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare; Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme." 1 Timothy 1:18-20

Enoch was caught up, Elijah was caught up... so doesn't seem so inconceivable that God would snatch us up as well... in our case, from the wrath to come.

"If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory... For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:" Colossians 3:1-4; 6 :love:
 
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Yes brother, I left for good just as Christ commanded me to do.

2nd Timothy 3:5​

“Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.”

1st Timothy 6:5​

“Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

Mark 13:14​

“But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:”

Judaea was the place OT saints went to worship, under the NT, it is in the churches of the saints, though most saints are not there , it has been taken over by the man of sin, being where they ought not to be!

Dwight, I spend almost my waking hours in the scriptures seeking to do God's will, I do not need a public place to attend to do what I do very naturally, most of those folks only come once or twice a week to go through the motion of worshipping God. And If I was there teaching the scriptures I would be asked to leave, trust me, I know it has happened a few times since the mid seventies. I have try a few times over for around forty years or so, only to be disappointed every single time. A.W.Pink left for good for almost the last twenty plus years of his life and he's not alone. Christ was NOT welcome in the temple during his days upon the earth and what church did he religiously attend ~unknown, yet his every single second alive was doing God's will seeking his face, etc.

One more thing~While I have left, I refuse to judge people hearts that I do not know personally, I leave that to God to judge, and He will. I give most the benefit of the doubt, yet I will not be part of a group that rejects clear teachings of the word of God, it's not going to happen.
Every church has some issues, and will have more when you (or I) join. It sounds like you feel that you're the only one who doesn't deny the power of godliness, doesn't dispute with men of corrupt minds, doesn't misinterpret Mark 13:14, doesn't misinterpret the man of sin, and doesn't just go through the motions of worshiping God.

What church did Jesus attend? He WAS the church, and we, the body of Christ ARE the temple of the Holy Spirit. "Where two or three are gathered together in My name, there I am in their midst." But it appears that you're not even doing that.

Don't pretend that you're better than all the rest of us, admit that you too have faults, and join us to meet our issues head-on with the power of the Holy Spirit.

You claim to be seeking to do God's will, but you're disobeying His will by refusing to obey Hebrews 10:25: "NOT FORSAKING our own assembling together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another; and all the more as you see the day drawing near."

Christ NEVER commanded you or any believer to leave church assemblies forever. Sure, there are cults and other churches with divisive and abrasive teachings. Yes, by all means, leave those. But there are also many churches who are trying to do the right thing and teach the right things, those things found in the Bible. If there are no such churches near you, start one, or at least a small (2 or 3 people even) fellowship, to study and obey the Bible

The verses you quoted in 1st and 2nd Timothy are NOT speaking of believers. Many non-believers attend churches and go through the motions.

Mark 13:14 Churches who are seeking God's will are NOT the abomination of desolation. Yes, there will be tares in the grain - in EVERY CHURCH. But we should not allow that to keep us away. We must persevere and love our brothers and sisters in Christ.

We are commanded to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, strength, and mind and then to love our neighbor as ourselves.
 
“Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken from you and given to a nation bearing the fruits of it.
Correct, which is why Jesus Christ told Israel she must be "born again." She was born a first time (Exodus 4:22).

Nowhere in the apostle Paul's epistles does he say we'll be inheriting an earthly kingdom.
The heavens, however, yes! :love: (2 Corinthians 5:1; Colossians 3:1-4) :love:🥹

Find the Nation which Christ gave the Kingdom to = It is in the Bible/NT Scriptures
Israel Is Not Cast Away

"I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin." Romans 1:1

"I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy." Romans 11:11

"And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee." Romans 11:17-21

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." Romans 11:25

"And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I SHALL take away their sins." Romans 11:26-27

"Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;" Acts 3:19

"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband... And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife." Revelation 21:2; 9

The New Jerusalem

"Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal; And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:.. And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb." Revelation 21:11-12; 14


Twelves apostles??? Where's the apostle Paul??? He's IN HEAVEN w/ the Body of Christ :love:

So which tribe are you from? I don't see any proof that the Body of Christ has God's law (new covenant) written in their hearts,
& minds :unsure:
 
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Victoria, while I agree with you that we must not interject our personal private interpretation on God's word, but seek from the scriptures God's intended meaning ~ yet what Peter is saying is that the holy scriptures do not have any man's private teaching within them, but all we have within the holy scriptures are "the very words of God himself" as holy men wrote as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
I just meant a figurative/symbolic/metaphoric interpretation where it's undoubtedly meant literal,
like what Origen started :)
 
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