1 John Hilasmos (atonement)

civic

Active Member
Taken from Lamb of the Free

Kipper in 1 John First John applies the language of sacrificial atonement to Jesus straightforwardly. Twice John declares that Jesus is “the decontamination (hilasmos) for our sins” (1 John 2:2; cf. 4:10). Knowing all the sacrificial information established so far helps us figure out what John is not saying. John isn’t saying that Jesus was a substitutionary death. We know this because that is not how any sacrifices function. The question we ought to be asking is, “What holy objects or spaces are contaminated by our sins and therefore are the things being purged by Jesus?” But 1 John does not say. It seems the answer to this was taken for granted. But answering what sancta are being decontaminated by Jesus is the very question that Hebrews spends so much of its time developing.

Before delving into Hebrews, five observations from 1 John are worth highlighting. (1) The first time John tells us that Jesus is “the decontamination for our sins” he adds a surprising qualifier: “and not simply for our sins, but also the sins of all the cosmos” (2:2). John goes out of his way to make it clear that Jesus’s work of kipper extends well beyond the Jesus-community. Just like the Day of Decontamination purged the sins and impurities on the sanctuary regardless of how many people “believed” in the ritual, John is saying the purgative power of Jesus is not contingent on anything else, let alone anyone’s “belief” in that effectiveness. Jesus simply decontaminates everyone’s sins. Period. Attempts to wriggle out of the universal implications of this comment not only grate against the “plain sense” of the words on the page, but they go against John’s attempt to not be misunderstood on this specific point. Had John not offered this expansive qualifier, it would be possible to think he meant that Jesus is “the decontaminating sacrifice for our sins [only].”

Without falling down a rabbit hole, it needs to be said that the fact that John goes out of his way to make it clear that Jesus’s work of kipper is “not simply for our sins, but also the sins of all the cosmos” means anyone wishing to delimit the scope of beneficiaries is ignoring John’s intentional effort to not let his audience think about Jesus in terms of a “limited atonement” (let the reader understand). (2) Although interpreters can fixate about whether hilasmos should be translated “expiate” or “propitiate,” as Shauf argues, “since God is the one making the ἱλασμός available, it makes little sense to translate with a sense of propitiation.”571 Levitical sacrifice was not about appeasing the wrath of God, but about keeping God’s sanctuary regularly decontaminated. True, God’s absence from the sanctuary would result in exile, but that is an indirect consequence of God no longer being there to “meet with” Israel and bless them (Exod 29:42–46; 20:24). The atoning sacrifices are ritual detergents, not substitutionary death penalties. The sacrificial animals are neither suffering nor dying in place of the offerer.

Therefore, to the extent that Jesus-as-hilasmos is based on the sacrificial system in the Torah this cannot be framed as either a substitutionary death or substitutionary suffering. The only claim is that Jesus can effect the same purgation that the purgation sacrifices did, but on a greater scale. Moreover, 1 John itself repeatedly relates both Jesus’s death and Jesus-as-hilasmos to revealing God’s “love” (3:16–18; 4:7–12), but wrath is never mentioned. “Wrath” has to be smuggled into the word hilasmos, a move that lacks warrant both with respect to Leviticus and to 1 John. This notion simply must be rejected for anyone wishing to stick to the way the words run on the pages of these texts. Moreover, it is not even clear that 1 John 2:2 is claiming anything about Jesus’s death specifically. This is only assumed because of the mistaken view (debunked in chapter 1) that OT sacrifice finds any meaning in the death of the sacrificial animal. The claim in 2:2 is based on the personal presence of Jesus before the Father (2:1). I will touch on this point again below, but the point here is that since sacrificial decontamination is accomplished by conveying “life” (i.e., blood, cf. Lev 17:11, 14) in the presence of God in the holy of holies, then Jesus-as-hilasmos may be owing to the fact of the kind of life Jesus is and that this life is present before God. The kipper-function of Jesus would be due to his personal resurrected and ascended presence before God, not to his death itself. (3) As Shauf further observes,

John’s use of “cleanse”/“purify” (katharizō) in 1:7 (cf. 1:9) is a clear parallel to the claim about the Day of Decontamination in Lev 16:30 LXX:572 1 John 1:7 katharizei hēmas apo pasēs hamartias Lev 16:30 katharisai hymas apo pasōn tōn hamartiōn hymōn Just because there is a link to the Day of Decontamination does not mean that Jesus is being conceptualized in terms of an atoning sacrifice here, however. Jesus’s work is accomplishing all of what happens on the Day of Decontamination, which includes more than the mere purgation sacrifices. As discussed, Lev 16:30 is the only time in Leviticus that ritual impurity is used as an analogy for moral impurity. I suggested using “minor” and “major” moral impurity to distinguish between sins that do not contaminate the land (minor) and those grave sins that do pollute the land (major). Moreover, 16:29 implies that it is not the purgation sacrifices offered that purify the people, but rather the passing of time (each year), their own fasting, and cessation from labor. Also, the prophets (especially Ezekiel and Jeremiah) expand on this notion of the possibility of moral purification and envision God purifying people from the major moral impurities. As we saw, this is what Rabbi Aqiva picked up on in his interpretation of Lev 16:30 in m. Yoma 8:9. Recall that he appeals to both Ezek 36:25 and Jer 17:13 to say that the cleansing will come from the promised water-washing done by God. In other words, the moral purification from minor moral impurities on the Day of Decontamination (Lev 16:30)

We have established that although 1 John and Hebrews both apply the language of sacrificial atonement to Jesus, this does not mean that they view Jesus as a substitutionary death or that atonement is a central aspect of the gospel message. Instead, the authors of these texts are making innovative theologies based on the preexisting “ingredients” of Jesus’s resurrection, ascension, and mission to effect moral purification. Hebrews acknowledges that its teaching on Jesus as a high priest who provides atonement for the heavenly sanctuary and who consecrates his followers as both co-high priests and co-purgation sacrifices is intended for the theologically “mature.” Further, both 1 John and Hebrews analogize Jesus’s blood to various cultic “liquids,”
 
1 John 2: 2. hilasmos

1. Greek english lexicon of the new testament - an appeasing, propitiation the means of appeasing, a propitiation

2. louw nida - the means of forgiveness, expiation

3. An intermediate greek english lexicon - A means of expiation, a propitiation

4. LXGRCANLEX - Propitiation

5. Vines complete expository dictionary of OT and NT words - To make the gods propitious, to appease, to propitiate

6. Lexham Analytical lexicon of the septuagint (OT translated into the greek) Atonement, the means of appeasing, The act of atonement, Pardon

7. DBL Greek - Means of forgiveness

8. BDAG A greek english lexicon of the NT and other early Christian literature - - Appeasement necessitated by sin, Instrument for appeasing sin offering, Expiation, Sacrifice to atone, Sin offering

9. LEH LXX Lexicon - Expiation, Atonement, Propitiation, Sin offering, Forgiveness

I have quite a few more resources and they all say prety much the same thing.
 
1 John 2: 2. hilasmos

1. Greek english lexicon of the new testament - an appeasing, propitiation the means of appeasing, a propitiation

2. louw nida - the means of forgiveness, expiation

3. An intermediate greek english lexicon - A means of expiation, a propitiation

4. LXGRCANLEX - Propitiation

5. Vines complete expository dictionary of OT and NT words - To make the gods propitious, to appease, to propitiate

6. Lexham Analytical lexicon of the septuagint (OT translated into the greek) Atonement, the means of appeasing, The act of atonement, Pardon

7. DBL Greek - Means of forgiveness

8. BDAG A greek english lexicon of the NT and other early Christian literature - - Appeasement necessitated by sin, Instrument for appeasing sin offering, Expiation, Sacrifice to atone, Sin offering

9. LEH LXX Lexicon - Expiation, Atonement, Propitiation, Sin offering, Forgiveness

I have quite a few more resources and they all say prety much the same thing.
God was never angry at the Son and needed to be appeased
. That’s a fallacy . Expiation is the better translation of the Greek word. The same word in 1 John 2:2 is the same in 1 John 4:10 which declares it was Gods love, not anger.

1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

The context proves God did not need to be appeased by His anger/ wrath towards the Son. It was love not anger.

Next fallacy
 
God was never angry at the Son and needed to be appeased
I never said he was angry at the son..

His anger against us needed to be appeased.
. That’s a fallacy . Expiation is the better translation of the Greek word. The same word in 1 John 2:2 is the same in 1 John 4:10 which declares it was Gods love, not anger.

1 John 4:10
This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins.

The context proves God did not need to be appeased by His anger/ wrath towards the Son. It was love not anger.

Next fallacy
Yes, For god loved me so much, he gave his only son.

Again, its not based on anger its based on love..

If Jesus did not pay for our sins, we are still dead in our sins.
 
I never said he was angry at the son..

His anger against us needed to be appeased.

Yes, For god loved me so much, he gave his only son.

Again, its not based on anger its based on love..

If Jesus did not pay for our sins, we are still dead in our sins.
Paying for sins has nothing to do with appeasing an angry god. That originated from paganism not the Bible
 
Paying for sins has nothing to do with appeasing an angry god. That originated from paganism not the Bible
then your still dead in your sin. and the price of redemption. paid by the blood of Christ. has no value to you

According to the law. there could be no forgiveness apart from the atonement of blood.

Christ, the innocent lamb of God, became that atonement for us..

again, I see this as basic christianity the basis for which we know God loved us..

sorry bro.. Not sure where you get this line of thinking that God will just forgive this person and not another based on some thing outside of his perfect justice just does not line up. I worry it is an attempt to destroy something that calvin believes (even though they too get this wrong)
 
then your still dead in your sin. and the price of redemption. paid by the blood of Christ. has no value to you

According to the law. there could be no forgiveness apart from the atonement of blood.

Christ, the innocent lamb of God, became that atonement for us..

again, I see this as basic christianity the basis for which we know God loved us..

sorry bro.. Not sure where you get this line of thinking that God will just forgive this person and not another based on some thing outside of his perfect justice just does not line up. I worry it is an attempt to destroy something that calvin believes (even though they too get this wrong)
Nope Jesus forgave me of my sins. I’ve been in a loving daily relationship with Him for over 4 decades.
 
and the price of grace was expensive. But it was literally paid in full on the cross.. That's why salvation can be offered to everyone..
Beievers in many places are also called to participate in His death. Take up your cross daily. We have been crucified with Christ,

This union with Jesus is described as co-crucifixion (Rom 6:3–6; Gal 2:20), co-cross bearing (Mark 8:34–35), and co-suffering with Jesus (Mark 10:38–39; Phil 3:10; Rom 8:17; 2 Cor 1:5; 2 Tim 2:12; Heb 13:11–13). This is what the participatory nature of the well-being sacrifices make possible and intelligible. This is why Paul says eating the sacrificialized Lord’s Supper is “participation” (koinōnia) in Jesus’s shed blood and broken body (1 Cor 10:16–17). But more than this, the Lord’s Supper unites all partakers to each other: The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a sharing [koinōnia] in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a sharing [koinōnia] in the body of Christ?

And Paul’s use of koinōnia elsewhere shows how he thinks about this as all believers sharing in Christ’s sufferings and becoming conformed to the likeness of Jesus’s death together (e.g., 2 Cor 1:5, 7; Phil 3:10; cf. Col 1:24). He says something similar in 2 Cor 4:7–12 where he talks about his life as a living narration of the life and death of Jesus. Basically, to the extent to which believers are living narrations of Jesus’s death, they are having koinōnia with Christ Crucified.

This makes sense for why Paul calls himself a drink offering (Phil 2:17), which accompanied sacrificial feasts (Num 15:1–13). And he says the Philippians’ gift can be thought of as the smoke arising from the well-being sacrifices that pleases God (Phil 4:18), just Jesus was (Eph 5:1–2).561 Paul’s letters make explicit what is narratively presented in the Gospels via the Lord’s Supper. That is, eating the sacrificialized Lord’s Supper binds one to Jesus and thereby to the cross where his body was broken and his blood shed (e.g., Mark 8:31–35, 10:38–45; cf. John 6:48–58, 12:23–26, 13:36, 21:18–19). The well-being sacrifices are key to understanding the way NT authors, and especially Paul, conceive of the relationship between Jesus and the church, which Paul calls Jesus’s body (1 Cor 12:12–13, 27; Rom 12:5; cf. Eph 1:23, 4:12, 5:30; Col 1:18, 24, 2:19). The participatory nature of the well-being sacrifices allow Paul a way to make sense of believer’s very real participation and union with Jesus’s death (and resurrection) because these are the only sacrifices the offerer eats and so has a share in themselves.

It makes perfect sense for a movement that saw itself as the body of the Crucified Lord and called to share in his sufferings to draw on the well-being being sacrifices activated in the Lord’s Supper when seeking to comprehend Jesus’s death. Therefore, if Jesus is a well-being sacrifice and his followers sacrificially partake of his body and blood and thereby become members of and sharers in his body—a new covenant people united to the ultimate Passover lamb who also seals the new covenant in his blood—then as Jesus’s body, they also become a collective “living well-being sacrifice” (Rom 12:1) and living narrations of Jesus’s cruciform pattern of life.

This makes sense for why Paul calls himself a drink offering (Phil 2:17), which accompanied sacrificial feasts (Num 15:1–13). And he says the Philippians’ gift can be thought of as the smoke arising from the well-being sacrifices that pleases God (Phil 4:18), just Jesus was (Eph 5:1–2).561 Paul’s letters make explicit what is narratively presented in the Gospels via the Lord’s Supper. That is, eating the sacrificialized Lord’s Supper binds one to Jesus and thereby to the cross where his body was broken and his blood shed (e.g., Mark 8:31–35, 10:38–45; cf. John 6:48–58, 12:23–26, 13:36, 21:18–19). The well-being sacrifices are key to understanding the way NT authors, and especially Paul, conceive of the relationship between Jesus and the church, which Paul calls Jesus’s body (1 Cor 12:12–13, 27; Rom 12:5; cf. Eph 1:23, 4:12, 5:30; Col 1:18, 24, 2:19). The participatory nature of the well-being sacrifices allow Paul a way to make sense of believer’s very real participation and union with Jesus’s death (and resurrection) because these are the only sacrifices the offerer eats and so has a share in themselves.

It makes perfect sense for a movement that saw itself as the body of the Crucified Lord and called to share in his sufferings to draw on the well-being being sacrifices activated in the Lord’s Supper when seeking to comprehend Jesus’s death. Therefore, if Jesus is a well-being sacrifice and his followers sacrificially partake of his body and blood and thereby become members of and sharers in his body—a new covenant people united to the ultimate Passover lamb who also seals the new covenant in his blood—then as Jesus’s body, they also become a collective “living well-being sacrifice” (Rom 12:1) and living narrations of Jesus’s cruciform pattern of life.

This makes sense for why Paul calls himself a drink offering (Phil 2:17), which accompanied sacrificial feasts (Num 15:1–13). And he says the Philippians’ gift can be thought of as the smoke arising from the well-being sacrifices that pleases God (Phil 4:18), just Jesus was (Eph 5:1–2).561 Paul’s letters make explicit what is narratively presented in the Gospels via the Lord’s Supper. That is, eating the sacrificialized Lord’s Supper binds one to Jesus and thereby to the cross where his body was broken and his blood shed (e.g., Mark 8:31–35, 10:38–45; cf. John 6:48–58, 12:23–26, 13:36, 21:18–19). The well-being sacrifices are key to understanding the way NT authors, and especially Paul, conceive of the relationship between Jesus and the church, which Paul calls Jesus’s body (1 Cor 12:12–13, 27; Rom 12:5; cf. Eph 1:23, 4:12, 5:30; Col 1:18, 24, 2:19). The participatory nature of the well-being sacrifices allow Paul a way to make sense of believer’s very real participation and union with Jesus’s death (and resurrection) because these are the only sacrifices the offerer eats and so has a share in themselves.
https://berean-apologetics.communit...u-have-become-an-ot-jew.82/page-5#post-198161

hope this helps !!!
 
Believers are called to be a living sacrifice. We are called to participate daily in His death and sufferings. Taking up our crosses daily as His disciples.

Romans 12:1-2
Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

2 Corinthians 4:10-11
We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. / For we who are alive are always consigned to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our mortal body.

1 Peter 4:13-14
But rejoice that you share in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed at the revelation of His glory. / If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.

Romans 8:17
And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.

1 Peter 2:21
For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in His footsteps:
 
and the price of grace was expensive. But it was literally paid in full on the cross.. That's why salvation can be offered to everyone..

"Price for Grace".....

"Bought with a Price" is different to different people. To you, it is about money. To most everyone in this world it is about money.

That is how you're judging "redemption" here. You're applying "monetary" concepts to salvation.

We know this isn't true because Isaiah records God saying just this.....

Isa 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

So, the onus is upon you to detail what the "Price of Grace" is. Grace that has a price isn't Grace.
 
Beievers in many places are also called to participate in His death. Take up your cross daily. We have been crucified with Christ,
yes, this is our sanctification process.. We have to humble ourselves and be like Christ
This union with Jesus is described as co-crucifixion (Rom 6:3–6; Gal 2:20), co-cross bearing (Mark 8:34–35), and co-suffering with Jesus (Mark 10:38–39; Phil 3:10; Rom 8:17; 2 Cor 1:5; 2 Tim 2:12; Heb 13:11–13). This is what the participatory nature of the well-being sacrifices make possible and intelligible. This is why Paul says eating the sacrificialized Lord’s Supper is “participation” (koinōnia) in Jesus’s shed blood and broken body (1 Cor 10:16–17). But more than this, the Lord’s Supper unites all partakers to each other: The cup of blessing that we bless, is it not a sharing [koinōnia] in the blood of Christ? The bread that we break, is it not a sharing [koinōnia] in the body of Christ?

And Paul’s use of koinōnia elsewhere shows how he thinks about this as all believers sharing in Christ’s sufferings and becoming conformed to the likeness of Jesus’s death together (e.g., 2 Cor 1:5, 7; Phil 3:10; cf. Col 1:24). He says something similar in 2 Cor 4:7–12 where he talks about his life as a living narration of the life and death of Jesus. Basically, to the extent to which believers are living narrations of Jesus’s death, they are having koinōnia with Christ Crucified.

This makes sense for why Paul calls himself a drink offering (Phil 2:17), which accompanied sacrificial feasts (Num 15:1–13). And he says the Philippians’ gift can be thought of as the smoke arising from the well-being sacrifices that pleases God (Phil 4:18), just Jesus was (Eph 5:1–2).561 Paul’s letters make explicit what is narratively presented in the Gospels via the Lord’s Supper. That is, eating the sacrificialized Lord’s Supper binds one to Jesus and thereby to the cross where his body was broken and his blood shed (e.g., Mark 8:31–35, 10:38–45; cf. John 6:48–58, 12:23–26, 13:36, 21:18–19). The well-being sacrifices are key to understanding the way NT authors, and especially Paul, conceive of the relationship between Jesus and the church, which Paul calls Jesus’s body (1 Cor 12:12–13, 27; Rom 12:5; cf. Eph 1:23, 4:12, 5:30; Col 1:18, 24, 2:19). The participatory nature of the well-being sacrifices allow Paul a way to make sense of believer’s very real participation and union with Jesus’s death (and resurrection) because these are the only sacrifices the offerer eats and so has a share in themselves.

It makes perfect sense for a movement that saw itself as the body of the Crucified Lord and called to share in his sufferings to draw on the well-being being sacrifices activated in the Lord’s Supper when seeking to comprehend Jesus’s death. Therefore, if Jesus is a well-being sacrifice and his followers sacrificially partake of his body and blood and thereby become members of and sharers in his body—a new covenant people united to the ultimate Passover lamb who also seals the new covenant in his blood—then as Jesus’s body, they also become a collective “living well-being sacrifice” (Rom 12:1) and living narrations of Jesus’s cruciform pattern of life.

This makes sense for why Paul calls himself a drink offering (Phil 2:17), which accompanied sacrificial feasts (Num 15:1–13). And he says the Philippians’ gift can be thought of as the smoke arising from the well-being sacrifices that pleases God (Phil 4:18), just Jesus was (Eph 5:1–2).561 Paul’s letters make explicit what is narratively presented in the Gospels via the Lord’s Supper. That is, eating the sacrificialized Lord’s Supper binds one to Jesus and thereby to the cross where his body was broken and his blood shed (e.g., Mark 8:31–35, 10:38–45; cf. John 6:48–58, 12:23–26, 13:36, 21:18–19). The well-being sacrifices are key to understanding the way NT authors, and especially Paul, conceive of the relationship between Jesus and the church, which Paul calls Jesus’s body (1 Cor 12:12–13, 27; Rom 12:5; cf. Eph 1:23, 4:12, 5:30; Col 1:18, 24, 2:19). The participatory nature of the well-being sacrifices allow Paul a way to make sense of believer’s very real participation and union with Jesus’s death (and resurrection) because these are the only sacrifices the offerer eats and so has a share in themselves.

It makes perfect sense for a movement that saw itself as the body of the Crucified Lord and called to share in his sufferings to draw on the well-being being sacrifices activated in the Lord’s Supper when seeking to comprehend Jesus’s death. Therefore, if Jesus is a well-being sacrifice and his followers sacrificially partake of his body and blood and thereby become members of and sharers in his body—a new covenant people united to the ultimate Passover lamb who also seals the new covenant in his blood—then as Jesus’s body, they also become a collective “living well-being sacrifice” (Rom 12:1) and living narrations of Jesus’s cruciform pattern of life.

This makes sense for why Paul calls himself a drink offering (Phil 2:17), which accompanied sacrificial feasts (Num 15:1–13). And he says the Philippians’ gift can be thought of as the smoke arising from the well-being sacrifices that pleases God (Phil 4:18), just Jesus was (Eph 5:1–2).561 Paul’s letters make explicit what is narratively presented in the Gospels via the Lord’s Supper. That is, eating the sacrificialized Lord’s Supper binds one to Jesus and thereby to the cross where his body was broken and his blood shed (e.g., Mark 8:31–35, 10:38–45; cf. John 6:48–58, 12:23–26, 13:36, 21:18–19). The well-being sacrifices are key to understanding the way NT authors, and especially Paul, conceive of the relationship between Jesus and the church, which Paul calls Jesus’s body (1 Cor 12:12–13, 27; Rom 12:5; cf. Eph 1:23, 4:12, 5:30; Col 1:18, 24, 2:19). The participatory nature of the well-being sacrifices allow Paul a way to make sense of believer’s very real participation and union with Jesus’s death (and resurrection) because these are the only sacrifices the offerer eats and so has a share in themselves.
https://berean-apologetics.communit...u-have-become-an-ot-jew.82/page-5#post-198161

hope this helps !!!
again, this is sanctification not justification.
 
Believers are called to be a living sacrifice. We are called to participate daily in His death and sufferings. Taking up our crosses daily as His disciples.

Romans 12:1-2
Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God’s mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God—this is your true and proper worship. 2Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ, and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.

2 Corinthians 4:10-11
We always carry around in our body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our body. / For we who are alive are always consigned to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus may also be revealed in our mortal body.

1 Peter 4:13-14
But rejoice that you share in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed at the revelation of His glory. / If you are insulted for the name of Christ, you are blessed, because the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you.

Romans 8:17
And if we are children, then we are heirs: heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ—if indeed we suffer with Him, so that we may also be glorified with Him.

1 Peter 2:21
For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in His footsteps:
once again, this is sanctification. those who do this are already born again. Already adopted. Already justified. Already given the spirit. Already forgiven of their sins.
 
"Price for Grace".....

"Bought with a Price" is different to different people. To you, it is about money. To most everyone in this world it is about money.

That is how you're judging "redemption" here. You're applying "monetary" concepts to salvation.

We know this isn't true because Isaiah records God saying just this.....

Isa 55:1 Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

So, the onus is upon you to detail what the "Price of Grace" is. Grace that has a price isn't Grace.
I'm in this journey rethinking what I have been told and taught on the atonement. Especially with the Passover which Jesus said was Him. And we are called to participate with Him, share with Him- this cannot be "substitution" the way we have been taught since we "participate" with Him in His sufferings. We are called to be crucified with Him.

Just like the "Seed" must die to give life- He also died that He might give us life in Him. After-all he is the life giver. Life is only found in Him as the Creator and Sustainer of all life as its source.

In this journey its awesome that we can continue to grow, learn, rethink, evaluate what our theology looks like and add or subtract to it. It should be a never ending goal until we leave this earth and go to be with Him.
 
Taken from Lamb of the Free

Kipper in 1 John First John applies the language of sacrificial atonement to Jesus straightforwardly.

I mentioned this before but "kipper" is complicated in Hebrew. A this author properly recognizes, there are many words associated with redemption.

hilasmos is found in Numbers 5:8.

Num 5:5 And the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,

Num 5:8 But if the man has no next of kin to whom restitution may be made for the wrong, the restitution for wrong shall go to the LORD for the priest, in addition to the ram of atonement with which atonement is made for him.

It is interesting that in Hebrew the view is one of "restitution"......or "reparation" (שׁוּב)
 
I'm in this journey rethinking what I have been told and taught on the atonement. Especially with the Passover which Jesus said was Him. And we are called to participate with Him, share with Him- this cannot be "substitution" the way we have been taught since we "participate" with Him in His sufferings. We are called to be crucified with Him.

Just like the "Seed" must die to give life- He also died that He might give us life in Him. After-all he is the life giver. Life is only found in Him as the Creator and Sustainer of all life as its source.

In this journey its awesome that we can continue to grow, learn, rethink, evaluate what our theology looks like and add or subtract to it. It should be a never ending goal until we leave this earth and go to be with Him.
To me, the value is Eternal Life. What shall a man give in exchange for his soul? The right to Eternal Life.

There is great value in Eternal Life. Value that can't be quantified in the context of money or wages.

We don't have a right to anything without Him.
 
Back
Top Bottom