YHWH alone is the Savior !

[civic]

Isaiah 43:11
I, yes I, am the LORD, and there is no Savior but Me.

Above we see YHWH is the only Savior, there is no other.

But we know that the Son is the Savior of the world, mankind. Paul includes both the God the Father and God the Son as Saviors. There are none but Them.


Titus 3:4-7
4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, 5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Below in the same book we read Paul calling the Son- Jesus Christ our Great God and Savior

Titus 2:13
as we await the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

And Peter tells us the same thing. I will conclude with the inspired Apostle Peter in his 2nd Epistle and tie it all together.


2 Peter 1:1
τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:11
τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:1
our God and Savior, Jesus Christ

2 Peter 1:11
our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

We have a second person possessive pronoun "Our" modifying two different improper nouns (God and Savior) joined by "and" (Kia) to identify a proper noun (Jesus) [Granville/Sharp's]. Therefore, by basic grammar, we are identifying Jesus as God and Savior. We don't even have to know the Greek to see that Jesus is being called both God and Savior/ Lord and Savior in Peters 2nd Epistle. 2 Peter 2:20 and 2 Peter 3:18 also have the same Greek construction as 1:1 and 1:11.

But for those interested in the Greek here is the comparison of 1:1 and 1:11.


τοῦ is the same.

ἡμῶν is the same.

καὶ is the same.

Σωτῆρος is the same.

Ἰησοῦ is the same.

Χριστοῦ· is the same.

And all in the same order.

The only difference is the noun "Θεοῦ" in v.1, while "Κυρίου" is in v.11.

So if Unitarians wants to deny that Jesus is "God" ("theou") in v.1, then have to deny that Jesus is "Lord" ("kuriou") in v.11. Otherwise they are being inconsistent and dishonest with the text. To say otherwise is proof positive one has an agenda when reading scripture and using eisegesis rather than exegesis of the biblical text in question.

Peter refers to Christ as our God and Saviour- Lord and Saviour just the same as Paul in Titus 2:13 and it’s the same Greek construction in Titus 2:13 as it is in 2 Peter 1:1and 1:11.

conclusion: the unitarians cannot exegete scripture properly, their bias reading will not allow them to read scripture objectively but only through their biased lens.

hope this helps !!!

 

[civic]

Here is what the Lord YHWH declares in Isaiah


Isaiah 44:6
Thus says the LORD, the King and Redeemer of Israel, the LORD of Hosts: “I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God but Me.

But lets read who Jesus says in Revelation who the first and the last is !

Rev 22:13, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”

We can see here that Whoever is the Alpha/Omega also claims to be the first/last AND the beginning/end. It’s the same Person.

If we look back in Rev 1:17-18 we see the following:

“…Fear not; I am the first and the last: I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.”

So, the One Who is first/last (and then is also Alpha/Omega and beginning/end) is the same Person who was dead and is alive forever more. It doesn’t take a scholar to figure out Who is the One speaking here. It does take a lot of mental gymnastics to explain away something so obvious.

The term "first/last" is used 4 times in Rev. Twice it is used along with "Alpha/Omega" with the Person claiming to be "first/last" AND the "Alpha/Omega."

"Alpha/Omega" is used 4 times in Rev. Twice with "first/last" and twice with "beginning/end."

"Beginning/end" occurs 3 times: twice with "Alpha/Omega" and once with "Alpha/Omega" AND "first/last."

In all of these texts, the speaker always refers to Himself with both or all of the titles. To say, "Well, this time it's Jehovah who is the first/last, this next time it's Jesus, then later it's Jehovah again..." is the mental gymnastics to which I referred.

Is God the first/last or is Jesus the first/last? Is God the Alpha/Omega or is Jesus the Alpha/Omega? Is God the beginning/end or is Jesus the beginning/end. An obvious way to reconcile the verses is to understand that Jesus is God.

According to unitarians, it seems God claimed to be the first/last in one sense while Jesus claimed to be first/last in another sense. You seem to gloss over the blatant connection of first/last with beginning/end and Alpha/Omega. In each verse, the Speaker who claims one title also claims one or both of the others. It's all the same person.

I usually wait patiently for unitarians to reply but this point has been nagging at me so I have to comment preemptively. I really am baffled by their suggestion from other discussion in the past that “first/last” has some meaning here other than the obvious one (a title synonymous with Alpha/Omega). You even say that Alpha/Omega is never used of the Son? Incredible!! We both have said that context is king so I would like to remind other readers of the context of Rev 1:17-18 (beginning in v.10, Young’s Literal):

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's-day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying, I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last;' and, `What thou dost see, write in a scroll, and send to the seven assemblies that [are] in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.'

And I did turn to see the voice that did speak with me, and having turned, I saw seven golden lamp-stands, and in the midst of the seven lamp-stands, [one] like to a son of man, clothed to the foot, and girt round at the breast with a golden girdle, and his head and hairs white, as if white wool -- as snow, and his eyes as a flame of fire; and his feet like to fine brass, as in a furnace having been fired, and his voice as a sound of many waters, and having in his right hand seven stars, and out of his mouth a sharp two-edged sword is proceeding, and his countenance [is] as the sun shining in its might.

And when I saw him, I did fall at his feet as dead, and he placed his right hand upon me, saying to me, `Be not afraid; I am the First and the Last, and he who is living, and I did become dead, and, lo, I am living to the ages of the ages. Amen! and I have the keys of the hades and of the death.

Do you realize this is one scene? The Speaker identifies Himself in v. 11 as “the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last.” John turns to see who is speaking and sees “one like to a son of man” (other translations have “the Son of man”). Perhaps John is saying, "I saw someone who looked like Jesus." Then finally, in v. 17-18, the Speaker indeed identifies Himself as the One who is living and became dead and is now alive again forever.

Unitarians: I guess you identify the Alpha and Omega in v. 8 as Jehovah and v. 11 as Jesus? I guess you don’t see the term “the First and the Last” as a title equivalent to “the Alpha and Omega”? If so, you are definitely seeing something in the text that an ordinary reading doesn’t see beacuse of your bias.

It’s a title ascribed to the Almighty. I didn’t think it needed a more precise definition to be understood. What about, “the one who is and who was and who to come”? Does that need to be defined? I guess we could talk about a precise definition but I don’t think that will change my point. The Alpha/Omega is self-described as “the Almighty (1:8) AND the First/Last (22:13). The First/Last is self-described as the one who was dead and is alive forever more (1:18). Again, there are either 2 people who are the first and last OR Jesus is the Almighty.

Conclusion: Scripture declares YHWH is the First and the Last and besides Me there is no God/YHWH. Christ is YHWH.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Soyeong]

Isaiah 43:11
I, yes I, am the LORD, and there is no Savior but Me.

Above we see YHWH is the only Savior, there is no other.

But we know that the Son is the Savior of the world, mankind. Paul includes both the God the Father and God the Son as Saviors. There are none but Them.


Titus 3:4-7
4 But when the kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared, 5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that being justified by His grace we might be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Below in the same book we read Paul calling the Son- Jesus Christ our Great God and Savior

Titus 2:13
as we await the blessed hope and glorious appearance of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

And Peter tells us the same thing. I will conclude with the inspired Apostle Peter in his 2nd Epistle and tie it all together.


2 Peter 1:1
τοῦ θεοῦ ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:11
τοῦ κυρίου ἡμῶν καὶ σωτῆρος Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ

2 Peter 1:1
our God and Savior, Jesus Christ

2 Peter 1:11
our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

We have a second person possessive pronoun "Our" modifying two different improper nouns (God and Savior) joined by "and" (Kia) to identify a proper noun (Jesus) [Granville/Sharp's]. Therefore, by basic grammar, we are identifying Jesus as God and Savior. We don't even have to know the Greek to see that Jesus is being called both God and Savior/ Lord and Savior in Peters 2nd Epistle. 2 Peter 2:20 and 2 Peter 3:18 also have the same Greek construction as 1:1 and 1:11.

But for those interested in the Greek here is the comparison of 1:1 and 1:11.


τοῦ is the same.

ἡμῶν is the same.

καὶ is the same.

Σωτῆρος is the same.

Ἰησοῦ is the same.

Χριστοῦ· is the same.

And all in the same order.

The only difference is the noun "Θεοῦ" in v.1, while "Κυρίου" is in v.11.

So if Unitarians wants to deny that Jesus is "God" ("theou") in v.1, then have to deny that Jesus is "Lord" ("kuriou") in v.11. Otherwise they are being inconsistent and dishonest with the text. To say otherwise is proof positive one has an agenda when reading scripture and using eisegesis rather than exegesis of the biblical text in question.

Peter refers to Christ as our God and Saviour- Lord and Saviour just the same as Paul in Titus 2:13 and it’s the same Greek construction in Titus 2:13 as it is in 2 Peter 1:1and 1:11.

conclusion: the unitarians cannot exegete scripture properly, their bias reading will not allow them to read scripture objectively but only through their biased lens.

hope this helps !!!

How do you address the issue of agency?

 

[civic]

How do you address the issue of agency?

The Son was the representative of YHWH in both testaments representing the Godhead. It’s the Son who interacted with man directly on both testaments.

 

[Soyeong]

The Son was the representative of YHWH in both testaments representing the Godhead. It’s the Son who interacted with man directly on both testaments.

A representative takes actions on behalf of someone else, so it can be the case that God alone is our Savior and that He gets credit for the salvation brought about by a representative.

 

[civic]

A representative takes actions on behalf of someone else, so it can be the case that God alone is our Savior and that He gets credit for the salvation brought about by a representative.

The Son is not the Father yet both are identified as God/ YHWH but They are not the same Person.

 

[Soyeong]

The Son is not the Father yet both are identified as God/ YHWH but They are not the same Person.

A representative can be identified by who they represent.

Exodus 7:1 And Jehovah saith unto Moses, 'See, I have given thee a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother is thy prophet;

This is also Moses speaking:

Deuteronomy 29:2-6 And Moses calleth unto all Israel, and saith unto them, `Ye -- ye have seen all that which Jehovah hath done before your eyes in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to all his land; the great trials which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great wonders; and Jehovah hath not given to you a heart to know, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, till this day, and I cause you to go forty years in a wilderness; your garments have not been consumed from off you, and thy shoe hath not worn away from off thy foot; bread ye have not eaten, and wine and strong drink ye have not drunk, so that ye know that I [am] Jehovah your God.

 

[civic]

A representative can be identified by who they represent.

Exodus 7:1 And Jehovah saith unto Moses, 'See, I have given thee a god to Pharaoh, and Aaron thy brother is thy prophet;

This is also Moses speaking:

Deuteronomy 29:2-6 And Moses calleth unto all Israel, and saith unto them, `Ye -- ye have seen all that which Jehovah hath done before your eyes in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh, and to all his servants, and to all his land; the great trials which thine eyes have seen, the signs, and those great wonders; and Jehovah hath not given to you a heart to know, and eyes to see, and ears to hear, till this day, and I cause you to go forty years in a wilderness; your garments have not been consumed from off you, and thy shoe hath not worn away from off thy foot; bread ye have not eaten, and wine and strong drink ye have not drunk, so that ye know that I [am] Jehovah your God.

Except Moses did not create all things , he was not in the beginning and before all created things , in Christ all things exist, not Moses or any other man.