brightfame52
Well-known member
@eve
Thats not good to say about Gods Gospel of Grace !
Thats not good to say about Gods Gospel of Grace !
World = US = John 3:16
- Thread starter Behold
- Start date
e v e
Well-known member
calvinism is a problem , not me...
and anyway, He has no gospel of grace.
thats esaus invention ...
His Scroll is meant to get us Home, which is Eden paradise...
and all He has done, since the fall, is do everything to get us back..
the law proved we were helpless against this flesh...
and Christ made it Possible for us to even imagine to Go Home..
but nothing the prophets said stops being true and in effect
and applicable to you or me...
its just that with the corrupt text, it is
twisted to seem like 'oh that is dusty history from the past...'
..the firstfruits are the first group to go Home, for specific reasons..
there is no predestined calvin-proofed elect in which the rest
are damned to 'hell'..
only Christ will decide anything ... thats the thing...
not calvin and his greek philosophy
anyway, this dungeon earth is Hell..
just that many do not realize that yet... and are
enjoying their flesh and the 'world'... instead of listening
to Him... why else do you think most of the prophets and apostles
were murdered. Today they would be told they were heretics...
seriously... and nothing they said, from God, which is true Right Now...
is correct in the KJV nor part of calvinism..since it would mean
to realize the texts are corrupt, to accept
that God did not create this body. modern christianity
will not accept what He said. that is the gist..
hopefully during trib they will finally lose their
ego, which is the carnal flesh mind..
The goal is to Go Home to Eden Paradise, Is it not?
and not to sit around feeling 'saved already'
and superior to others who are souls of Him and hurting very much.
e v e
Well-known member
and no I am not saying that talmud or judaistic ideas or
such are in any way related to what God said to the prophets
or to us..that again is esau mixing this own Baal religion in with
real christianity to produce modern christianity...
What God said is not what you read in the kjv.
the absolute corrupt elements of the text
mixed with greek views came from ptolemy,
james, etc...and then the theologians
interpreted everything wrong, including calvin
such are in any way related to what God said to the prophets
or to us..that again is esau mixing this own Baal religion in with
real christianity to produce modern christianity...
What God said is not what you read in the kjv.
the absolute corrupt elements of the text
mixed with greek views came from ptolemy,
james, etc...and then the theologians
interpreted everything wrong, including calvin
e v e
Well-known member
In fact, I will add there is no old and new testament.
All there is is the Words God spoke to us to get us Back..
the division of texts was by Marcion, adopted by the popes.
Indeed, souls met Christ before He even came to this earth..
and trying to demarcate the situation is
hurtful to Christ... as am attempt by
theology to remove the importance of His prophets
and all that He said to them.
Moses met Christ. Moses is a soul of God...
And the prophets met Christ..
In person... where do you think they
got the words He spoke to them?
and it is pharisees, then and now that twist
what God says to us, why?
So they can attempt that we will never go Home...
A fail of course.
Sins is the most ridiculous concept too. We
are in a prison already so we are committing sins in a prison?
the reason to try in spite of helplessness,
because of this evil flesh, to be good
is to be able to Hear Him and to
stay close to Him for His return.
And every single supposed "I am saved already"
is also living in their fleshbody, which IS sin nature.
not His nature of Eden.
The promise, His covenant to get us out of Here,
which Christ His Son made possible, is what we have right now.
We are waiting for the rescue at this moment..
and it will be rapture..and has nothing to do
with who Calvinists think are saved or not!!
All there is is the Words God spoke to us to get us Back..
the division of texts was by Marcion, adopted by the popes.
Indeed, souls met Christ before He even came to this earth..
and trying to demarcate the situation is
hurtful to Christ... as am attempt by
theology to remove the importance of His prophets
and all that He said to them.
Moses met Christ. Moses is a soul of God...
And the prophets met Christ..
In person... where do you think they
got the words He spoke to them?
and it is pharisees, then and now that twist
what God says to us, why?
So they can attempt that we will never go Home...
A fail of course.
Sins is the most ridiculous concept too. We
are in a prison already so we are committing sins in a prison?
the reason to try in spite of helplessness,
because of this evil flesh, to be good
is to be able to Hear Him and to
stay close to Him for His return.
And every single supposed "I am saved already"
is also living in their fleshbody, which IS sin nature.
not His nature of Eden.
The promise, His covenant to get us out of Here,
which Christ His Son made possible, is what we have right now.
We are waiting for the rescue at this moment..
and it will be rapture..and has nothing to do
with who Calvinists think are saved or not!!
brightfame52
Well-known member
Election in regards to Salvation is always unconditional, the elect b4 saved are totally depraved, dead in sin, so its election of grace Rom 11:5-6
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Works means all conditions ! However you deny total depravity of man by nature and grace election, another strike against you.
brightfame52
Well-known member
@eve
So you calling the Gospel of Gods Grace a problem, thats not good friend
So you calling the Gospel of Gods Grace a problem, thats not good friend
So why can't you post a single verse which actually states that.
Why do you continually tout the word of man you cannot support with scripture?
brightfame52
Well-known member
You are denying two Truths of scripture, #1 Unconditional election an#2 what made election of grace necessary Total depravity
Yet only two verses later we are told that some folk are condemned already:
Berean Standard Bible Whoever believes in Him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe has already been condemned, because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.
brightfame52
Well-known member
Those whom Christ didnt die for are already condemned, the law condemns them.
GodsGrace
Well-known member
Could you PLEASE post some verses that state that man is so depraved that he is UNABLE to seek God and become saved?
Could you post some verses that state that a person is chosen by God to be born again from the beginning and based on nothing but God's good pleasure.
Thanks.
GodsGrace
Well-known member
Actually, BF @e v e is right.
The gospel is not the problem.
The CALVINIST gospel is the problem.
Galatians 1:6-9
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting * Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
7 which is really not another; only * there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed!
Paul is amazed that some are leaving the gospel taught to them for another gospel.
Because another gospel is heretical....this is why it's accursed.
John Calvin taught a different gospel because what HE taught was NEVER part of the teaching of the church...
starting with the Apostles and all the way to the 5th century when a manichaen gnostic joined the CC and taught that man
has no free will and is born in sin.
THIS was NEVER taught by the early chuch and is a man-made heresy.
(which even the CC does not accept).
Seems he only posts his theology
GodsGrace
Well-known member
He also never replies to posts.
Real good at copying and pasting however.
And you have posted no verses teaching either
John 1:6–7 (KJV 1900) — 6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
John the apostle believes the testimony of John the Baptist is sufficient for faith.
John 4:39 (KJV 1900) — 39 And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
How much exegesis is needed to see men believed based upon the woman's testimony
John 17:20 (KJV 1900) — 20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
men will be able to believe based on the apostle's testimony
Acts 19:8 (ESV) — 8 And he entered the synagogue and for three months spoke boldly, reasoning and persuading them about the kingdom of God.
Paul persauded men concerning the Kingdom of God
Acts 17:2–4 (ESV) — 2 And Paul went in, as was his custom, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3 explaining and proving that it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus, whom I proclaim to you, is the Christ.” 4 And some of them were persuaded and joined Paul and Silas, as did a great many of the devout Greeks and not a few of the leading women.
Convincing them Jesus was the Christ
Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
The reading of scripture is sufficient for belief
2 Timothy 3:15 (NIV) — 15 and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 3:4–11 (NIV) — 4 In reading this, then, you will be able to understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to people in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God’s holy apostles and prophets. 6 This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus. 7 I became a servant of this gospel by the gift of God’s grace given me through the working of his power. 8 Although I am less than the least of all the Lord’s people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord.
As is the preaching of it.
Romans 10:10–17 (KJV 1900) — 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! 16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Acts 28:23–24 (KJV 1900) — 23 And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening. 24 And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.
Miracles have power to bring about faith
John 5:36 (KJV 1900) — 36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
God blinded men to prevent belief.
John 12:40 (KJV 1900) — 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.
Why would God blind someone who had no ability to see?
Why prevent from believing those who had no capacity for belief
Luke notes had men not grown hardened they could have believed
Acts 28:27 (KJV 1900) — 27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
unregenerate men are shown to receive the word with joy and believe
Luke 8:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
The adversary steals the word away so men will not believe
Luke 8:11–12 (KJV 1900) — 11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
What need is there to steal away a word which cannot be believed?
Joshua 24:15–31 (NASB95) — 15 “If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.” 16 The people answered and said, “Far be it from us that we should forsake the LORD to serve other gods; 17 for the LORD our God is He who brought us and our fathers up out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage, and who did these great signs in our sight and preserved us through all the way in which we went and among all the peoples through whose midst we passed. 18 “The LORD drove out from before us all the peoples, even the Amorites who lived in the land. We also will serve the LORD, for He is our God.” 19 Then Joshua said to the people, “You will not be able to serve the LORD, for He is a holy God. He is a jealous God; He will not forgive your transgression or your sins. 20 “If you forsake the LORD and serve foreign gods, then He will turn and do you harm and consume you after He has done good to you.” 21 The people said to Joshua, “No, but we will serve the LORD.” 22 Joshua said to the people, “You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen for yourselves the LORD, to serve Him.” And they said, “We are witnesses.” 23 “Now therefore, put away the foreign gods which are in your midst, and incline your hearts to the LORD, the God of Israel.” 24 The people said to Joshua, “We will serve the LORD our God and we will obey His voice.” 25 So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day, and made for them a statute and an ordinance in Shechem. 26 And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God; and he took a large stone and set it up there under the oak that was by the sanctuary of the LORD. 27 Joshua said to all the people, “Behold, this stone shall be for a witness against us, for it has heard all the words of the LORD which He spoke to us; thus it shall be for a witness against you, so that you do not deny your God.” 28 Then Joshua dismissed the people, each to his inheritance. 29 It came about after these things that Joshua the son of Nun, the servant of the LORD, died, being one hundred and ten years old. 30 And they buried him in the territory of his inheritance in Timnath-serah, which is in the hill country of Ephraim, on the north of Mount Gaash. 31 Israel served the LORD all the days of Joshua and all the days of the elders who survived Joshua, and had known all the deeds of the LORD which He had done for Israel.
Joshua told them to choose and they did
God's word states they are able
Deuteronomy 30:11–20 (NASB95) — 11 “For this commandment which I command you today is not too difficult for you, nor is it out of reach. 12 “It is not in heaven, that you should say, ‘Who will go up to heaven for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 13 “Nor is it beyond the sea, that you should say, ‘Who will cross the sea for us to get it for us and make us hear it, that we may observe it?’ 14 “But the word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it. 15 “See, I have set before you today life and prosperity, and death and adversity; 16 in that I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. 17 “But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, 18 I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it. 19 “I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants, 20 by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and by holding fast to Him; for this is your life and the length of your days, that you may live in the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”
Yes repetitiously
GodsGrace
Well-known member
brightfame52
Well-known member
You are denying two Truths of scripture, #1 Unconditional election an#2 what made election of grace necessary Total depravity.
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