Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
so you think baptism in water is a required condition?You got it.
"Works Salvation"
- Thread starter Seabass
- Start date
So what does Jesus mean when he says those who believe and are baptized will be saved (Mark 16:16)? What does Paul mean when he says that those who confess and believe will be saved (Rom 10:9-10)? Do you not understand the meaning of the conjunction "and"? You sound as if you don't.
As I have noted before, Jesus in Matthew 28:19-29 describes baptizing and teaching as the way to make disciples out of the people of all nations. It is not what is done to disciples; it is how disciples are made.
I think that is what God says.
Do you really think that those of us who believe the need to be water baptized think that we have earned salvation by doing that? I don't think that and I don't think anyone else does either.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
You keep doing this
Mark 16: 16 does not say I need to be baptized in water. And Jesus would nbot contradict himself in John 3. where he did not mention baptism. because it is not required.
No. Matt 28 says make disciples. then you baptize THEM (they are already disciples.
She me baptism in the following verses. In fact. show me works of any type
John 1: 11: 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE <em>13 </em>who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. (no works)
John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)
John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)
John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)
John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)
John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)
John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)
John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)
EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)
eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)
rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)
rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)
Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)
Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)
2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)
Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED US through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
Titus 1: 2 in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN
this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
civic
Active Member
yep straight from the mouth of the Savior Himself in John 3:16-18.
John 3:16-18
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him. 18He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God.
Amen
FreeInChrist
Active Member
Good. Karla Faye Tucker did... and she will be up there with the rest of us. Charlie Manson died a non believer last I heard.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
I am amazed at those who think Mark 16 trumps this passage and thinks Jesus contradicts himself
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
He probably did. But if he did not. God would save him,,
Neil Spargo
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Neil Spargo
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Charlie was god, he said so many times.
civic
Active Member
I never heard anything about repentance from manson, have you ?
civic
Active Member
Here from the San Quintin Chaplain assigned to manson
After each conversation I had with Charles Manson, I went away in awe of his ability to capture a moment and claim it as his. Charles Manson was exactly what he sought to be. Charles wanted people to see him, hear his name and fear him. The problem is that Charles is a little person who sees his height in terms of emotional and psychological dominance. Psychological warfare was his means of survival. He once told me: "This is my world, and I decide when you do what you do. The trees, the stars, the grass, they all belong to me." Charles was interested in the manipulation of people for the sole purpose of seeing if he could manipulate them.
After each conversation I had with Charles Manson, I went away in awe of his ability to capture a moment and claim it as his. Charles Manson was exactly what he sought to be. Charles wanted people to see him, hear his name and fear him. The problem is that Charles is a little person who sees his height in terms of emotional and psychological dominance. Psychological warfare was his means of survival. He once told me: "This is my world, and I decide when you do what you do. The trees, the stars, the grass, they all belong to me." Charles was interested in the manipulation of people for the sole purpose of seeing if he could manipulate them.
Neil Spargo
Active Member
No, hear him tell it he never did anything wrong. Society was out to get poor ole Charlie.
Neil Spargo
Active Member
Sounds like he was a Calvinist. LOL just kidding. Maybe John Calvin reincarnated.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
No, I was just saying, that was an Odd comment that was made..
Yes it does. It says whosever believes AND is baptized will be saved.
No it does not. That is absolutely false. You need to brush up on your grammar. Also the Greek word translated "them" refers to the Greek word translated "nations". The Greek word translated "nations" is ethnos which here refers to the people of the nations. Both baptizing and teaching are adverbial participles modifying the verb "matheteuo" meaning to make disciples. The Greek word "matheteuo" is a verb, not a noun. The Greek word "autos" translated "them" cannot refer back to the verb. The adverbial participles serve as instructions on how to make disciples. That is the grammatical construction in both Greek and English.
See the above, reply #3319.
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