"Works Salvation"

[mailmandan]

beating a dead horse

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

beating a dead horse

Yep pretty much

 

[charismaticlady]

your right, its not

If I have eternal life. and Gods promise I will never perish.

then I will live forever (spiritually) and never perish (spiritually.

a man given this promise from God cannot die spiritually

but they can commit a sin unto death (physical)

Sorry, what I meant is what was described in the post I responded to is not spiritual death, but the scripture is.

 

[charismaticlady]

beating a dead horse

Good grief! Can you delete this picture? @Administrator

 

[Titus]

After being born again of the Spirit we cannot commit a sin unto death, 1 John 3:9.

You believe in eternal security, perseverance of the saints, once saved always saved?

 

[charismaticlady]

You believe in eternal security, perseverance of the saints, once saved always saved?

No. There are too many warnings like Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

We still have free will. Also, we can commit apostasy and completely renounce Christ.

But in saying that, I am secure in my salvation and know He is pleased with me. For the last 48 years I have received an answer to 100% of my prayers because He taught me to wait on Him to reveal His will before I pray. I just pray what He speaks to me.

It is important to do everything you can to purposefully abide in Christ so that He will abide in us. This is how he knows us. I was worried about my oldest friend so I got her to watch The Chosen. And now she wants to read the Word. We both watch the series over and over. I notice that when I wake up my mind is already on things of the Lord, so I know He is in me.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Sorry, what I meant is what was described in the post I responded to is not spiritual death, but the scripture is.

It’s ok. But as I said it’s not spiritual death in scripture. A person who has eternal life and the promise they will never die can’t die or God lied

It’s his reputation at stake not ours. We are guilty no matter what. But forgiven based on the cross

 

[charismaticlady]

again, works cancels out grace

not if you know what grace is and is not.

 

[Doug Brents]

Its all about you

I am done.. You keep pumping your chest. I will rest in christ. No need to continue

People tend to read into other's comments what they themselves harbor in their own heart. Sounds like you are talking about yourself. Because NOTHING I have said is about me.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

not if you know what grace is and is not.

Paul told us what Grace is, and what is not grace

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Romans 4:4
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Works cancells grace. It is one or the other,.

if someone comes to you and preaches works as a means of grace. my recommendation is to attempt to share the truth with them. but if they will not listen. run

 

[Titus]

I asked if you believe in OSAS. You answered,

No

Then what is your definition of a sin unto death?
You claim the born again cannot commit this sin.

After being born again of the Spirit we cannot commit a sin unto death, 1 John 3:9. We are clean, John 15:3. But one who is born again and WALKS in the Spirit will commit sins not unto death (unintentional sins)

Sin has nothing to do with our body. Our spirit and soul controls our bodies, not the other way around.

You do know 1,2,3 John is written to the born again?

Sorry but your teaching has confused me.

 

[charismaticlady]

Paul told us what Grace is, and what is not grace

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Romans 4:4
Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Works cancells grace. It is one or the other,.

if someone comes to you and preaches works as a means of grace. my recommendation is to attempt to share the truth with them. but if they will not listen. run

Yes, the kind of "works" Paul is talking about in these verses are the works of Judaism, keeping a day holy, separating meats to eat rather than abiding in Christ and resting in Him all the time, and no longer separating meats, but treating all meats the same. "Works" are not sins of the flesh. If you choose to commit a sin of the flesh, you also choose its master.

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Choose righteousness, not unrighteousness. Do you agree? Don't be fooled. The wages of willful sins of the flesh are still death. Galatians 5:19-21 "19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Yes, the kind of "works" Paul is talking about in these verses are the works of Judaism, keeping a day holy, separating meats to eat rather than abiding in Christ and resting in Him all the time, and no longer separating meats, but treating all meats the same. "Works" are not sins of the flesh. If you choose to commit a sin of the flesh, you also choose its master.

no.

why do people keep insisting this?

A work is something you do to earn a wage, it is what you do to prepare so you can go do something to earn a reward.,

those are the works paul are talking about.

yes. He went after jews multiple times, so in context. they believed they are saved by works of the law so he apposed that.

But not everyone believes this.. others added other works. like water baptism. church membership and others. paul spoke against any work of merit. not just the law

Romans 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

Choose righteousness, not unrighteousness. Do you agree? Don't be fooled. The wages of willful sins of the flesh are still death. Galatians 5:19-21 "19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

The law required perfection.

are you now saying we can be at a point where we do not keep the law. yet still be saved?

This mindset makes no sense.

I call it watering down the law.

 

[Rowan]

Yes, like Abraham believed God's promise - finally, after he already took matters into his own hands and tried to work out his own fulfillment of what God said and produced Ishmael - from the flesh.

And look where Ishmael got us. Muslims believe Muhammad is descended from Ishmael. Ishmael is considered a prophet in Islam and is listed in the Quran with other prophets in many instances.

Ishmael in Islam - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[charismaticlady]

no.

why do people keep insisting this?

A work is something you do to earn a wage, it is what you do to prepare so you can go do something to earn a reward.,

those are the works paul are talking about.

yes. He went after jews multiple times, so in context. they believed they are saved by works of the law so he apposed that.

But not everyone believes this.. others added other works. like water baptism. church membership and others. paul spoke against any work of merit. not just the law

The reason why the laws are written on our heart when He fills us with the Holy Spirit and cleanses our sin nature back to a normal human nature, PLUS the power of God is so that righteousness is as natural as breathing. Paul calls it being a slave to righteousness.

The law required perfection.

are you now saying we can be at a point where we do not keep the law. yet still be saved?

This mindset makes no sense.

I call it watering down the law.

I'm saying what I've said before that the only reason we do not have the law written on stone is because we don't need it anymore to be righteous because they are written on our conscience and now are part of our very nature. Jesus took sin out of our nature so we are free to be righteous which is now our nature instead of sin.

 

[synergy]

again
there are two ways to heaven

There is only one way to heaven, through Jesus and His Cross. There is no other way.

1. Obey the law
2. Grace
since you reject grace, You are left with only one options.
I don't care if you can recite any command, if your trying to earn your salvation by obedience. this puts you under law

So you are a Closet Legalist, I see. You suddenly came out of the legalism closet and revealed your "obey the law" "way to heaven".

I highly suggest that abandon your Judaizing Legalistic beliefs and start to believe that Jesus is "the Way, the Truth, and the Life" (John 14:6).

Grace is unmerited.

If I have to merit by obedience. then its not of grace it is of works.

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)

Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED USthrough the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

LOL! Since when did anyone merit the Preordained Good Works that God elected for us???? They were preordained by God's Grace long before anyone of us were ever born!

I highly advise that you stop stomping on your election and start to be grateful for the good works that you were elected for.

 

[charismaticlady]

no.

why do people keep insisting this?

Maybe because Jesus told us to in order to abide in Him. "If you love me, keep My commandments." Also John, 1 John 3:24, 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

To not keep His commandments is to completely quench the Spirit of Christ if it is He that dwells within us.

The law required perfection.

are you now saying we can be at a point where we do not keep the law. yet still be saved?

This mindset makes no sense.

I call it watering down the law.

Not at all! Romans 3:31 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

But we do not keep it according to the flesh which is the letter of the law, but by the Spirit of the law. Romans 7:5-6 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

For instance, how do you keep the Sabbath by the Spirit of the law and not in the oldness of the letter? Both 1 John 3:24 and John 15:4 tells us the answer. This stumped many legalists like the Pharisees.