"Works Salvation"

Yeah he did

What does it profit a person if they SAY they have faith, but has no works, CAN THAT FAITH SAVE THEM?

The answer is no. Because true faith works. As Paul said over and over.
Faith is faith.

No such think as TRUE faith.

A person either has faith or they don't.

If you have a headache, you have a headache.
No such thing as a TRUE headache.

Word games won't cut the mustard in God's case...
HE knows what HE taught and what HE wants from us.

Obedience
Good works
 
Yeah and you better obey every one without even stumbling in one point

Or you better repent and recieve Gods gift of salvation..

The worse thing you can do is try to earn the gift of life
Are there any moderators around?

Are you allowed to tell another member he is not saved?
I DON'T THINK SO.


You've done this more than once and to others as well.
 
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I've replied to the above more than once.

The simple reply is:
What does BELIEVE mean?

Apparently some do not know what it means or they do not want to know what it means.

Plus,,,,you're ADDING to scripture.
I posted from the letter to Titus saying exactly the opposite of what you think Titus 3:4 means.
So either Paul doesn't know his own theology, or there's a misunderstanding in scripture, or you're not considering all of the NT.

Jesus taught that we are to do good works.
Jesus taught that we are to obey Him.

Simple.
Now your a liar. you have not responded to those verses ever and shown what I have asked

the focus is not believe. the focus is when salvation occurs. and what those who are saved receive. and how one is saved.

None of the passages I show had any works required.

Yet you continually try to insert works to the equation.

feel free to break those verses down like we have multiple times to the massive verses you keep shoving at us.

and then you can say you have responded to them
 
Faith is faith.

No such think as TRUE faith.
did they have faith?
A person either has faith or they don't.
Amen
If you have a headache, you have a headache.
No such thing as a TRUE headache.
Amen, did they have faith?
Word games won't cut the mustard in God's case...
HE knows what HE taught and what HE wants from us.

Obedience
Good works
Dead faith, is that faith at all? Why could it not save, why did it not produce works? could it save them?
 
Jesus does obviously want good works from us..but salvation itself isn't achieved by those works. Eternal salvation and daily service are separate things.
Maybe you could explain the above a little better.

Maybe you could add some scripture to support your view.

Maybe you could reply to my post to you no. 2003

And I'm still waiting on your reply on the other thread about YOUR version of how to handle posting verses that ARE IN CONTEXT.
 
Are there any moderators around?

Are you allowed to tell another member he is not saved?
I DON'T THINK SO.

You've done this more than once and to others as well.
I stated general facts

and those facts stand

You do it all the time.. as well as falsly accuse people of things they do not do

take the spec out of your eye before you try to remove the log from someone elses eye
 
Maybe you could explain the above a little better.

Maybe you could add some scripture to support your view.

Maybe you could reply to my post to you no. 2003

And I'm still waiting on your reply on the other thread about YOUR version of how to handle posting verses that ARE IN CONTEXT.
as we are waiting for you to do the same with all the verses I have given you

1. Resolve the conflict

2. Show in context your verses and mine and make them agree with each other.
 
Now your a liar. you have not responded to those verses ever and shown what I have asked

the focus is not believe. the focus is when salvation occurs. and what those who are saved receive. and how one is saved.

None of the passages I show had any works required.

Yet you continually try to insert works to the equation.

feel free to break those verses down like we have multiple times to the massive verses you keep shoving at us.

and then you can say you have responded to them
You don't know what BELIEVE means and I'm not explaining it again.

You want verses on doing good works and you missed my post?

Are there any moderators around?
You're allowed to call another member a LIAR??
See rules 2, 2a to 2f.


Here they are: (there are MANY more BTW)

Matthew 5:16

In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:10

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

James 2:14-17

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

James 2:26

For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Colossians 3:23-24

Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.

Hebrews 13:16

Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

James 2:18

But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Galatians 6:9

And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

John 6:28-29

Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

James 4:17

So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

Titus 2:14

Who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

1 Timothy 6:17-19

As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.

1 Corinthians 16:14

Let all that you do be done in love.

Hebrews 6:10

For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do.

Romans 2:6-10

He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek.

2 Corinthians 5:10

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

Matthew 7:21-23

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Titus 1:16

They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

Proverbs 3:27-28

Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to do it. Do not say to your neighbor, “Go, and come again, tomorrow I will give it”—when you have it with you.

2 Timothy 3:17

That the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Titus 3:8

The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people.

Hebrews 10:24

And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,

Titus 2:7

Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity,

John 14:15

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

Ephesians 2:8

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

1 Corinthians 15:58

Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Psalm 37:3

Trust in the Lord, and do good; dwell in the land and befriend faithfulness.

Titus 3:1

Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

Matthew 25:31-46

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, ...

John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Colossians 3:23

Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,

James 3:13

Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom.

James 2:14-26

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. ...

Genesis 2:15

The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it.

2 Corinthians 9:8

And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work.
 
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as we are waiting for you to do the same with all the verses I have given you

1. Resolve the conflict

2. Show in context your verses and mine and make them agree with each other.
That post wasn't to you.

Your verses and mine agree when you understand what BELIEVE means.

There are NO CONFLICTS in scripture.

If there were, we could throw away our bibles.
 
Come on now, brothers and sisters; this is Christianity 101: Listen to what God has to say about works:

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NKJV) 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship,
created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

s e l a h
 
I stated general facts

and those facts stand

You do it all the time.. as well as falsly accuse people of things they do not do

take the spec out of your eye before you try to remove the log from someone elses eye
You told ME I'm a liar.
You told ME I'm in need of salvation which means you're judging my soul.

I don't report other members because I graduated from kindergarten many years ago.

But a moderator reading along SHOULD notice that rules are being broken.
 
Come on now, brothers and sisters; this is Christianity 101: Listen to what God has to say about works:

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NKJV) 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

s e l a h
Seems simple enough to me!
(y)
 
Isa 50:11 Behold, all you [enemies of your own selves] who attempt to kindle your own fires [and work out your own plans of salvation], who surround and gird yourselves with momentary sparks, darts, and firebrands that you set aflame!—walk by the light of your self-made fire and of the sparks that you have kindled [for yourself, if you will]! But this shall you have from My hand: you shall lie down in grief and in torment.

The fact that salvation is by the grace of God and not by man’s works is a conclusion found in Scripture.

Once good works are introduced into the salvation process, salvation is no longer by faith alone; it is by faith and works. To imply that salvation is maintained by good works (or not sinning) is to take the daily burden of our salvation upon ourselves.
You completely lack the understanding of what works Paul was speaking of when he declares that Salvation is not by works. His "not by works" is, in fact, not by works of law. Believing is a work, but it is not a work of law. Paul's "not by works" does not eliminate conditions established by God for salvation. Believing is a condition for the sinner to be saved (Mark 16:16 and many other passages).

Salvation is through faith. To be saved, one must first believe in God, in Jesus Chris, in the gospel, for it, the gospel, is the power of God for salvation.
 
Come on now, brothers and sisters; this is Christianity 101: Listen to what God has to say about works:

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NKJV) 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

s e l a h
Yes, created in Christ Jesus for good works. We are saved for good works and not by good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10)
 
You don't know what BELIEVE means and I'm not explaining it again.
Faith, pistis - trust, confidence assurance, based on proof.

I know what it means, you just asked for a moderator. yet here you are once again falsly accusing me.
You want verses on doing good works and you missed my post?
No

I want verses that I gave and you continue to give to be proven to not contradict. Something you continue to refuse to do.
Are there any moderators around?
You're allowed to call another member a LIAR??
See rules 2, 2a to 2f.
Mods. Is it ok for people to bear false witness against others? Is it not ok to call them out?
Here they are: (there are MANY more BTW)

Matthew 5:16

In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
YOUR,, these people ARE SAVED they are not tryign to earn salvation

Ephesians 2:10

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
WE. we are those who have been saved ( aa completed action) by GRACE through faith. made into new creatures. They are nto working to keep or earn salvation, they already have it

James 2:14-17

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
Here is your first contradiction

Paul said we are saved by grave through faith not works, but we who are saved work. because we are new creatures
James is speaking to hearers of the word and not doers. They clam to have faith. but do they?

If they had living faith they would do works. the fact they have zero zip nada works proves their have dead faith

can that faith save a soul?

NO!!

this is preaching against licentiousness, a belief only, not faith gospel. these people have never been saved..

Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Proves my point

we are saved by GRACE through faith NOT WORKS

Grace and works do not mix in our salvation process.. it is recieved in faith, it is not earned in works.

Proof verses which support my point

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work

grace plus works equals work


2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us (a completed action) and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Again, our salvation purpose. grace and works do nto mix

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

Again, not even our good deeds have anything to save us, our salvation is completed by the work of God through his mercy..

James 2:26

For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.
Yes it is.

can a dead faith save? NO

but we are saved by a living faith. works prove our faith was real. but our salvation was by grace alone through faith.. not works

Colossians 3:23-24

Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.
Salvation is a gift. not a reward.

We work for rewards Gold silver precious stines, crowns. etc etc.. even the honor we recieve when we do good (it is better to give than to recieve)

salvation is a gift. IT CAN NOT BE EARNED

Hebrews 13:16

Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.
Amen. But again,, this is for people already saved, not people trying to get saved

James 2:18

But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
already discussed in great detail many times

Galatians 6:9

And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.
Again, Salvation is a gift. not a reward or something we reap

John 6:28-29

Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”
the work of God..

Not our work

James 4:17

So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.
Amen.

Titus 2:14

Who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
God purifies us, we do not purify ourselves (see what we mean about context)

1 Timothy 6:17-19

As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.
Yep. For the saved. the unsaved can not do this

1 Corinthians 16:14

Let all that you do be done in love.
Amen. We love because he first loved us, and gave himself for us

This is how we work.. if we are not saved. we can not do this.

Hebrews 6:10

For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do.
again, saved people. not people trying to earn salvation

Romans 2:6-10

He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek.
Descriptive. not prescriptive (you have been shown this over and over again many times.. Those saved do works.. it is their salvation that gives eternal life it is their new creation that does works.

2 Corinthians 5:10

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.
Yes. only believers come here. every one of them. and even those who have everything burnt is still saved.

again, salvation is a gift. these people were given the gift of life. and even the one who has everything burnt is still saved.

God keeps his promises


Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
yes. good works can not save. sadly many will get to the great white throne judgment and try to boast in their works. And jesus will say depart. HE NEVER KNEW THEM

they did not lose salvation, they never had it.


Titus 1:16

They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.
amen

Proverbs 3:27-28

Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to do it. Do not say to your neighbor, “Go, and come again, tomorrow I will give it”—when you have it with you.
amen, spoken to those already saved by grace. not spoken to people as a command to do this or else you will lose salvation

2 Timothy 3:17

That the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
Amen, and who does this?? GOD, and how? THROUGH HIS WORD.

Titus 3:8

The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people.
yes we should amen, No one is arguing against this. NO ONE!!!!

Hebrews 10:24

And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,
amen, we practice this all the time in my church

Titus 2:7

Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity,
Amen, again because your saved, not to get saved or keep it

John 14:15

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
amen

we love because he first loved us,, and SAVED US\

Ephesians 2:8

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Proved my point.. And remember NOT OF WORKS. lest anyone should boast. so why do you all keep boasting of your works?

1 Corinthians 15:58

Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.
Amen.

but again, not to get saved or keep it

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Amen, those SAVED already eternally by grace after reciving in faith are made new creatures. who will (NOT MIGHT) work

Psalm 37:3

Trust in the Lord, and do good; dwell in the land and befriend faithfulness.
amn, to recieve blessing, Salvation is a gift. not a blessing or reward for good behavior.

Titus 3:1

Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,
Yes. Amen. but not to get saved or stay saved

Matthew 25:31-46

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, ...
Yes. Gods people work.

Those not saved do not work. their faith is dead.

John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
In faith we are saved.. Not faith plus works.

Colossians 3:23

Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,
Amen

James 3:13

Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom.
Amen, but not to stay saved or earn salvation

James 2:14-26

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. ...
again, you seem to be on a roll.

already discussed. these people where hearers not doers. they had no salvation. proven by the fact they had no works.

Genesis 2:15

The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it.
Amen,, We were created to work..

2 Corinthians 9:8

And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work.
amen, for believers. not for the unsaved.. And our works do not save us, or keep us saved, they are a byproduct of our salvation.


see how you do it? everyone of your passages responded to.

Now you try it
 
That post wasn't to you.

Your verses and mine agree when you understand what BELIEVE means.
I understand what believe means

and no they do not agree.

My passages say no works included

your passages demand works

if both is for salvation. they are not in agreement
There are NO CONFLICTS in scripture.
Amen.

Sadly your belief causes many conflicts
If there were, we could throw away our bibles.
amen.

if I believed like you. I would seriously consider it. because I could not read the word in confidence
 
Come on now, brothers and sisters; this is Christianity 101: Listen to what God has to say about works:

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NKJV) 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [it is] the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

s e l a h
Yes

1. We are saved - A completed action
2. Our salvation was completed and accomplished based on grace - Unmerited by any works)
3. Our salvation was recieved in faith (god will not force it on us)
4. No works are involved, if we have to work to get saved, we can boast. because we saved ourselves.
5. Those who are saved are new creatures. created for good works.. which we will walk in them (sadly not all perfectly.. there will be mature believers, and babes in christ, but they are all saved)
 
You told ME I'm a liar.
because you lied.. youi bear false witness against me all the time, and in this case. you claimed you did something you have not done
You told ME I'm in need of salvation which means you're judging my soul.
anyone who teaches as you do is teaching a different gospel. that person needs to repent.

I do nto know your past. I do not know if you ever received Christ in total faith and were saved. so i can not judge you. no one can.

I can judge your gospel. and make suggestions based on that judgment


I don't report other members because I graduated from kindergarten many years ago.

But a moderator reading along SHOULD notice that rules are being broken.
if calling out a person for bearing false witness and making false claims is against the rules.. something is wrong.. But I will wait on a mod
 
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