"Works Salvation"

[Eternally-Grateful]

Seems simple enough to me!

Yet you do not understand it at all

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

FAITH without works is a DEAD FAITH.

WHICH MEANS IT IS NOT FAITH

WHICH MEANS THE PERSON DID NOT HAVE FAITH AND WERE NEVER SAVED

This means that FAITH without works is a DEAD FAITH.

AMEN

Simple English.

Simple english.

yet you do not understand what that means

A dead faith is not faith. If it was living faith. God would have applied his salvation to them, they would have been made new creatures. and if they trusted and were confident in his promise andf gospel. they would trust him in other areas.

it would not be devoid of works.

they would not be hearers only. not doers..

those people are make believers. they do not trust God.. they can claim it all they want. they are no more saved then a legalistic jew trying to add works of the law to salvation. Both are dead to God

 

[Eternally-Grateful]

Typical Catholic exercise in futility.

There is no such thing as faith alone. To believe in God is, by definition, to do what God says.

Your right. There is no such things as faith alone

But we are saved by grace alone. the moment we repent and respond to God in faith and recieve his gift of life.

No works are involved

but works will follow

 

[Jim]

Your right. There is no such things as faith alone

But we are saved by grace alone. the moment we repent and respond to God in faith and recieve his gift of life.

No works are involved

but works will follow

We are saved though faith. Faith is an action. Faith, i.e., believing in God, is something we do. We are saved through what we DO. We DO it and through that we are saved. We believe in God and then God saves us.

 

[Affinity]

We are saved though faith. Faith is an action. Faith, i.e., believing in God, is something we do. We are saved through what we DO. We DO it and through that we are saved. We believe in God and then God saves us.

We are saved by what Jesus did. All we must do is receive, in faith, the salvation God offers Ephesians 2:8-9 We fully trust in Jesus alone as the payment for our sins.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, created in Christ Jesus for good works. We are saved for good works and not by good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Who said anyone is saved by their works?

We are saved FOR good works.

But you preach AGAINST good works.
You say we WANT to do them,,,and so we do.

BUT
You are unwilling to agree with Jesus that good works are absolutely necessary to the born again believer.
Good works are part of OBEYING Jesus.

Maybe you don't equate obedience with doing what Jesus commanded?

Here's what Jesus said:
He said to ACT on His words. YOU seem to think this is not important with your many statements denying what I post.

Matthew 7:24
24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.


And the opposite is also true:

Matthew 7:26
26 "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.


Those are the words of Jesus....not mine.
I simply post scripture.


Now YOU can go ahead and twist the above to mean what they do not mean....

Jesus made His statements simple and to the point.
They're very easy to understand.

 

[GodsGrace]

We are saved by what Jesus did. All we must do is receive, in faith, the salvation God offers Ephesians 2:8-9 We fully trust in Jesus alone as the payment for our sins.

Post some verses that state what you believe.

There aren't any.

Because what Jesus did for His entire ministry was to show how to be better people...
make a better world....

This requires a change in our behavior and many good works.

 

[GodsGrace]

Faith, pistis - trust, confidence assurance, based on proof.

I know what it means, you just asked for a moderator. yet here you are once again falsly accusing me.

No

I want verses that I gave and you continue to give to be proven to not contradict. Something you continue to refuse to do.

Mods. Is it ok for people to bear false witness against others? Is it not ok to call them out?

YOUR,, these people ARE SAVED they are not tryign to earn salvation

WE. we are those who have been saved ( aa completed action) by GRACE through faith. made into new creatures. They are nto working to keep or earn salvation, they already have it

Here is your first contradiction

Paul said we are saved by grave through faith not works, but we who are saved work. because we are new creatures
James is speaking to hearers of the word and not doers. They clam to have faith. but do they?

If they had living faith they would do works. the fact they have zero zip nada works proves their have dead faith

can that faith save a soul?

NO!!

this is preaching against licentiousness, a belief only, not faith gospel. these people have never been saved..

Proves my point

we are saved by GRACE through faith NOT WORKS

Grace and works do not mix in our salvation process.. it is recieved in faith, it is not earned in works.

Proof verses which support my point

Romans 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work

grace plus works equals work

2 Timothy 1:9
who has saved us (a completed action) and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,

Again, our salvation purpose. grace and works do nto mix

Titus 3:5
not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

Again, not even our good deeds have anything to save us, our salvation is completed by the work of God through his mercy..


Yes it is.

can a dead faith save? NO

but we are saved by a living faith. works prove our faith was real. but our salvation was by grace alone through faith.. not works


Salvation is a gift. not a reward.

We work for rewards Gold silver precious stines, crowns. etc etc.. even the honor we recieve when we do good (it is better to give than to recieve)

salvation is a gift. IT CAN NOT BE EARNED

Amen. But again,, this is for people already saved, not people trying to get saved

already discussed in great detail many times

Again, Salvation is a gift. not a reward or something we reap

the work of God..

Not our work

Amen.

God purifies us, we do not purify ourselves (see what we mean about context)

Yep. For the saved. the unsaved can not do this

Amen. We love because he first loved us, and gave himself for us

This is how we work.. if we are not saved. we can not do this.

again, saved people. not people trying to earn salvation

Descriptive. not prescriptive (you have been shown this over and over again many times.. Those saved do works.. it is their salvation that gives eternal life it is their new creation that does works.

Yes. only believers come here. every one of them. and even those who have everything burnt is still saved.

again, salvation is a gift. these people were given the gift of life. and even the one who has everything burnt is still saved.

God keeps his promises



yes. good works can not save. sadly many will get to the great white throne judgment and try to boast in their works. And jesus will say depart. HE NEVER KNEW THEM

they did not lose salvation, they never had it.



amen

amen, spoken to those already saved by grace. not spoken to people as a command to do this or else you will lose salvation

Amen, and who does this?? GOD, and how? THROUGH HIS WORD.

yes we should amen, No one is arguing against this. NO ONE!!!!

amen, we practice this all the time in my church

Amen, again because your saved, not to get saved or keep it

amen

we love because he first loved us,, and SAVED US\

Proved my point.. And remember NOT OF WORKS. lest anyone should boast. so why do you all keep boasting of your works?

Amen.

but again, not to get saved or keep it

Amen, those SAVED already eternally by grace after reciving in faith are made new creatures. who will (NOT MIGHT) work

amn, to recieve blessing, Salvation is a gift. not a blessing or reward for good behavior.

Yes. Amen. but not to get saved or stay saved

Yes. Gods people work.

Those not saved do not work. their faith is dead.

In faith we are saved.. Not faith plus works.

Amen

Amen, but not to stay saved or earn salvation

again, you seem to be on a roll.

already discussed. these people where hearers not doers. they had no salvation. proven by the fact they had no works.

Amen,, We were created to work..

amen, for believers. not for the unsaved.. And our works do not save us, or keep us saved, they are a byproduct of our salvation.


see how you do it? everyone of your passages responded to.

Now you try it

Maybe you just don't really understand what is meant by salvation.

Our works are obedience to God.
They keep us saved.

No obedience.
No salvation.

John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."


Now, go ahead and take issue with the word OBEY because it insults your belief system.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, created in Christ Jesus for good works. We are saved for good works and not by good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10)

Jesus' words are shocking to you?

I just posted what HE stated.....
What Jesus stated does not need explaining with paragraphs of twisted words...which is what you do.

We are saved FOR GOOD WORKS.

So good works we must do.
THIS is obedience to God.

Jesus said we are to ACT on His words.
To ACT means TO DO something.

You may not agree with Jesus,,,
but it's what HE taught.

Those who ACT on His words are like the wise men.
Those who DO NOT ACT on his words are like foolish men.

And what do you teach?
That obeying Jesus is not what saves us.

Obedience to God IS what saves us.

 

[charismaticlady]

it would only be grace plus works if the persons salvation was gained because of selling his property

Explain

 

[GodsGrace]

because you lied.. youi bear false witness against me all the time, and in this case. you claimed you did something you have not done

anyone who teaches as you do is teaching a different gospel. that person needs to repent.

I do nto know your past. I do not know if you ever received Christ in total faith and were saved. so i can not judge you. no one can.

I can judge your gospel. and make suggestions based on that judgment



if calling out a person for bearing false witness and making false claims is against the rules.. something is wrong.. But I will wait on a mod

YOU called ME a liar.
YOU stated I am not saved.

The way you're turning this around is the same you do when turning around the words of Jesus.

Read the rules while you're waiting for a mod.

 

[Neil Spargo]

John 3:36 states, "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." This verse emphasizes the critical choice between belief and unbelief in Jesus Christ.

Belief in Jesus leads to eternal life, highlighting the promise of salvation for those who accept Him.

Unbelief results in the absence of life and the presence of God's wrath, indicating serious eternal consequences for rejecting the Son.
The verse serves as a conclusion to John the Baptist's testimony about Jesus, reinforcing the importance of faith in Him as the Son of God.

This encapsulates the essence of Christian faith and the stark contrast between the outcomes of belief and unbelief.

 

[GodsGrace]

WHICH MEANS IT IS NOT FAITH

WHICH MEANS THE PERSON DID NOT HAVE FAITH AND WERE NEVER SAVED

AMEN

Simple english.

yet you do not understand what that means

A dead faith is not faith. If it was living faith. God would have applied his salvation to them, they would have been made new creatures. and if they trusted and were confident in his promise andf gospel. they would trust him in other areas.

it would not be devoid of works.

they would not be hearers only. not doers..

those people are make believers. they do not trust God.. they can claim it all they want. they are no more saved then a legalistic jew trying to add works of the law to salvation. Both are dead to God

It's a dead faith BECAUSE there are no works.

FAITH without works is a DEAD FAITH.

A DEAD FAITH is a FAITH without works.

No matter how it's turned it means the same.

FAITH MUST HAVE WORKS or it's a DEAD FAITH.

Works are necessary for faith.
They put our faith into action....they complete our faith.

Abraham BELIEVED God and it was credited to him.

Abraham also OBEYED God and his faith was complete.

If Abraham had not obeyed God,,,,what would the result have been?

Would he have moved out of Ur?
Would he have divided the land with his nephew (and given him the best)?
Would Israel have ever existed?
Would Isaac have been as strong and determined?

Obedience to God is mandatory to our salvation.

 

[Doug Brents]

John 3:36 states, "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." This verse emphasizes the critical choice between belief and unbelief in Jesus Christ.

Belief in Jesus leads to eternal life, highlighting the promise of salvation for those who accept Him.

Unbelief results in the absence of life and the presence of God's wrath, indicating serious eternal consequences for rejecting the Son.
The verse serves as a conclusion to John the Baptist's testimony about Jesus, reinforcing the importance of faith in Him as the Son of God.

This encapsulates the essence of Christian faith and the stark contrast between the outcomes of belief and unbelief.

The more proper translation of that verse compares lack of belief with obedience. "The one who believes in the Son has eternal life; but the one who does not OBEY the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him."

 

[Begotten]

John 3:36 states, "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." This verse emphasizes the critical choice between belief and unbelief in Jesus Christ.

Belief in Jesus leads to eternal life, highlighting the promise of salvation for those who accept Him.

Unbelief results in the absence of life and the presence of God's wrath, indicating serious eternal consequences for rejecting the Son.
The verse serves as a conclusion to John the Baptist's testimony about Jesus, reinforcing the importance of faith in Him as the Son of God.

This encapsulates the essence of Christian faith and the stark contrast between the outcomes of belief and unbelief.

John 3:36 contrasts those who believe in the Son and those who do not, saying, “He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him”

 

[GodsGrace]

John 3:36 states, "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." This verse emphasizes the critical choice between belief and unbelief in Jesus Christ.

Belief in Jesus leads to eternal life, highlighting the promise of salvation for those who accept Him.

Unbelief results in the absence of life and the presence of God's wrath, indicating serious eternal consequences for rejecting the Son.
The verse serves as a conclusion to John the Baptist's testimony about Jesus, reinforcing the importance of faith in Him as the Son of God.

This encapsulates the essence of Christian faith and the stark contrast between the outcomes of belief and unbelief.

Please find out what UNBELIEF signifies in the Greek language.

UNBELIEF = DISOBEDIENCE

To disobey means not to believe.

John 3:36 means exactly the same no matter if the word OBEY is used or not.

 

[GodsGrace]

John 3:36 contrasts those who believe in the Son and those who do not, saying, “He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him”

Apparently @Doug Brents knows what DOES NOT BELIEVE means in the Greek....post 2074.

You should learn the meaning of BELIEVE and UNBELIEF in Greek.

 

[Duane]

Isa 50:11 Behold, all you [enemies of your own selves] who attempt to kindle your own fires [and work out your own plans of salvation], who surround and gird yourselves with momentary sparks, darts, and firebrands that you set aflame!—walk by the light of your self-made fire and of the sparks that you have kindled [for yourself, if you will]! But this shall you have from My hand: you shall lie down in grief and in torment.

The fact that salvation is by the grace of God and not by man’s works is a conclusion found in Scripture.

Once good works are introduced into the salvation process, salvation is no longer by faith alone; it is by faith and works. To imply that salvation is maintained by good works (or not sinning) is to take the daily burden of our salvation upon ourselves.

You got that right! Salvation is a gift from God received through faith, not earned through good works.

 

[Eliada]

You got that right! Salvation is a gift from God received through faith, not earned through good works.

Salvation is not based on works.

Whether it's Judaism, Islam, or the more non-theistic religions such as Buddhism, they all explain that salvation (of sorts) is obtained by performing. They say our “good” works must outweigh our bad works.

 

[mailmandan]

Who said anyone is saved by their works?

You did.

We are saved FOR good works.

Amen!

But you preach AGAINST good works.

I preach AGAINST Works-righteousness and self-righteousness but NOT against good works.

You say we WANT to do them,,,and so we do.

BUT
You are unwilling to agree with Jesus that good works are absolutely necessary to the born again believer.

When you say absolutely necessary, the problem is you make good works absolutely necessary for salvation/good works become the means of salvation. Again, good works are not forced or legalistic for born again believers but they are for works-salvationists.

Good works are part of OBEYING Jesus.

Amen and we are saved FOR good works and NOT BY good works. (Ephesians 2:8-10) Agree or disagree?

Maybe you don't equate obedience with doing what Jesus commanded?

Of course I do. Maybe you don't understand that obedience is works and we are saved by grace through faith and not by works. (Ephesians 2:8,9)

Here's what Jesus said:
He said to ACT on His words. YOU seem to think this is not important with your many statements denying what I post.

I never said acting on the words of Jesus was unimportant. That is your continuous strawman argument. I don't deny the words of Jesus. I only deny your eisegesis that culminates in salvation by works/works righteousness.

Matthew 7:24
24 "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock.

And the opposite is also true:

Matthew 7:26
26 "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.

Those are the words of Jesus....not mine.
I simply post scripture.

Then you twist those scriptures to teach salvation by works/works righteousness.

In Matthew 7:24-27, we find two different foundations with two different results, and not salvation by works, as you would suppose. Each house has a different material upon which its foundation is laid, and each house has a different final outcome.

One house is built by a wise man upon a rock and it stands (descriptive of believers). The other is built by a foolish man upon the sand and it collapses (descriptive of make believers).

The rock the wise man builds upon is true righteousness found in Jesus Christ alone. The sand the foolish man builds upon is self-righteousness. Only those who truly believe in Him (John 3:18) are wise and hear the words of Jesus and properly act on them.

Now YOU can go ahead and twist the above to mean what they do not mean....

I twisted nothing. I simply corrected your eisegesis that culminates in salvation by works/works righteousness.

Jesus made His statements simple and to the point.
They're very easy to understand.

Yes, His statements are simple and easy to understand as long as you read them in context (Matthew 7:15-27) and properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine.