"Works Salvation"

[civic]

Those of Rom 10:9-10 are already saved regenerated believers. The word is in their heart already Rom 10:8

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Below I will remove any doubts or confusion you might have in thinking tulip is true and it’s not. Calvinism (tulip) is not true. It all stands or falls upon each letter the tulip represents. I know as I was a Calvinist for over 4 decades defending these doctrines of grace (tulip). And one of the most famous Calvinists of all Spurgeon went on record saying that tulip is the gospel. That is blatantly false and as Paul says in Galatians 1 that it is another gospel and adding to the gospel itself these man-made doctrines of grace.

So let me spell this out one more time with Scripture, the Bible. The Spirit comes after faith, confession, repentance.

Anyone granted eyes to see knows the order below and scripture is consistent in both testaments. The Spirit comes after believe, receive, confess, repent etc.......

Ezekiel 18:30-32
“Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Notice what comes first

1- Repent , turn away from sin
2- the after you repent you get a new heart/spirit ( calvinism- regeneration, new life)
3- repent then you live, have life- ie new heart, spirit.

John has the same order in in his opening of the gospel and in his purpose statement for writing his gospel. Receive, Believe, Birth

John 1:12-13
“Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

Same order as above receive, believe, call on Him then the new birth follows.

John 20:31
“But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

Once again the order is consistent with the OT- belief/repentance precedes life.

Romans 10:8-13

But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the message concerning faith that we proclaim: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved. 11 As Scripture says, “Anyone who believes in him will never be put to shame.” 12 For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, 13 for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Again above we see its hearing the gospel, believing the message , confessing then calling upon the Lord results in salvation.

Acts tells us the same order in 11:18- "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life.” Repent precedes life.

Paul confirms the order in Ephesians below as well. Hearing and believing precedes the Holy Spirit that we were sealed with not before belief.

Ephesians 1:13
“And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit

In Acts below the Spirit comes after repentance

Acts 2:38
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

In Galatians the Spirit comes after hearing, believing, receiving

Galatians 3:2
I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law, or by hearing with faith?

Galatians 3:14
He redeemed us in order that the blessing promised to Abraham would come to the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.

James and Peter have the same exact order in James 1:18 , 1 Peter 1:23.

See how scripture is consistent when you do not read your doctrine into it but read it objectively, without bias ?

Summary of The Biblical order- notice where new life, regeneration is on the list from Scripture.

1- the preaching of the gospel- Rom 10
2- the hearing of the gospel- Rom 10
3- belief in the gospel- John 1:12
4- receiving the gospel- John 1:12
5- repentance Luke 5:32
6- the new birth that results in #7
7- salvation, eternal life- John 1:13
8- Justification- Rom 8:30
9- Sanctification- Rom 8
10- Glorification Rom 8:30



conclusion : the Spirit comes after faith , belief, receiving, repentance, confession, not before.

 

[Doug Brents]

Again its the truth, you are attempting to explain it away, which is evil. Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Those of Rom 10:9-10 are already saved regenerated believers. The word is in their heart already Rom 10:8

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

You can say the same thing over and over, but it does not change from falsehood to truth because of the increased repetition. When you are ready to discover truth, and abandon your falsehoods for what Scripture actually means, then we can continue. But as long as you refuse to see the truth, it is a waste of my time to try to converse with you.

 

[brightfame52]

You can say the same thing over and over, but it does not change from falsehood to truth because of the increased repetition. When you are ready to discover truth, and abandon your falsehoods for what Scripture actually means, then we can continue. But as long as you refuse to see the truth, it is a waste of my time to try to converse with you.

Truth is established forever, Prov 12:19

The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment

And this is Truth Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

 

[civic]

Truth is established forever, Prov 12:19

The lip of truth shall be established for ever: but a lying tongue is but for a moment

And this is Truth Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Another verse ripped from its context- the fool has said in his heart there is no God- the same ones God says there is none good. He is talking about those who deny God. In the same context God says He is with the Righteous - OOPS there goes your false premise.

Psalm 14​

For the director of music. Of David.​

1 The fool[a] says in his heart,
“There is no God.”
They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;
there is no one who does good.

2 The Lord looks down from heaven
on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.
3 All have turned away, all have become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.

4 Do all these evildoers know nothing?
They devour my people as though eating bread;
they never call on the Lord.
5 But there they are, overwhelmed with dread,
for God is present in the company of the righteous.
6 You evildoers frustrate the plans of the poor,
but the Lord is their refuge.

7 Oh, that salvation for Israel would come out of Zion!
When the Lord restores his people,
let Jacob rejoice and Israel be glad!

 

[Ray]

I love Romans:

9 Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart a person believes (adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Christ) and so is justified (declared righteous, acceptable to God), and with the mouth he confesses (declares openly and speaks out freely his faith) and confirms [his] salvation.
11 The Scripture says, No man who believes in Him [who adheres to, relies on, and trusts in Him] will [ever] be put to shame or be disappointed. [Ps. 34:22; Isa. 28:16; 49:23; Jer. 17:7.]
12 [No one] for there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. The same Lord is Lord over all [of us] and He generously bestows His riches upon all who call upon Him [in faith].
13 For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord [invoking Him as Lord] will be saved. [Joel 2:32.]
Romans 10:9–13.

The Bible clearly states, “For whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved” (Rom. 10:13).

 

[brightfame52]

I love Romans:

9 Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart a person believes (adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Christ) and so is justified (declared righteous, acceptable to God), and with the mouth he confesses (declares openly and speaks out freely his faith) and confirms [his] salvation.
11 The Scripture says, No man who believes in Him [who adheres to, relies on, and trusts in Him] will [ever] be put to shame or be disappointed. [Ps. 34:22; Isa. 28:16; 49:23; Jer. 17:7.]
12 [No one] for there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. The same Lord is Lord over all [of us] and He generously bestows His riches upon all who call upon Him [in faith].
13 For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord [invoking Him as Lord] will be saved. [Joel 2:32.]
Romans 10:9–13.

The Bible clearly states, “For whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved” (Rom. 10:13).

Only the saved will and can call upon the Name of the Lord.

 

[civic]

Only the saved will and can call upon the Name of the Lord.

Nope only sinners who place their faith in Christ and call upon the Lord after hearing the gospel call will be saved.

Cart before the horse once again.

hope this helps !!!

 

[synergy]

Rom 10:9-10 only applies to the already regenerated. saved. The word is already in their heart, implanted by regeneration Rom 10:8

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

I see nothing about regeneration in those verses. Where do you see regeneration?

 

[civic]

I see nothing about regeneration in those verses. Where do you see regeneration?

Are you kidding it’s everywhere

 

[Ray]

Only the saved will and can call upon the Name of the Lord.

Not according to scripture.

9 Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

look at the first two words in verse 9, it says because if that's future tense... In grammar, the future tense is a verb form that marks the event described by the verb as not having happened yet, but expected to happen in the future.

Look at the last four words in verse 9, you will be saved. Here we see the name thing. So that's twice in one verse.

If you're already saved why would you need to call upon the name of the Lord to be saved?

 

[civic]

Not according to scripture.

9 Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

look at the first two words in verse 9, it says because if that's future tense... In grammar, the future tense is a verb form that marks the event described by the verb as not having happened yet, but expected to happen in the future.

Look at the last four words in verse 9, you will be saved. Here we see the name thing. So that's twice in one verse.

If you're already saved why would you need to call upon the name of the Lord to be saved?

Bingo

 

[brightfame52]

Nope only sinners who place their faith in Christ and call upon the Lord after hearing the gospel call will be saved.

Cart before the horse once again.

hope this helps !!!

Only the saved believe on Christ.

 

[civic]

Only the saved believe on Christ.

Only a person can be saved after they believe not before.

 

[brightfame52]

I see nothing about regeneration in those verses. Where do you see regeneration?

It doesnt matter what you dont see lol. Those of Rom 10:9-10 have been regenerated, the word is already in their heart Vs 8

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

That cant be true of the unregenerate.

 

[brightfame52]

Not according to scripture.

9 Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

look at the first two words in verse 9, it says because if that's future tense... In grammar, the future tense is a verb form that marks the event described by the verb as not having happened yet, but expected to happen in the future.

Look at the last four words in verse 9, you will be saved. Here we see the name thing. So that's twice in one verse.

If you're already saved why would you need to call upon the name of the Lord to be saved?

Yes according to scripture. The future tense doesnt change anything, the saved will be saved also in the future. In case you not aware, the believers future glorification is also salvation. Paul had just wrote to the same people Rom 8:29-30

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

 

[synergy]

It doesnt matter what you dont see lol. Those of Rom 10:9-10 have been regenerated, the word is already in their heart Vs 8

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

That cant be true of the unregenerate.

So it doesn't matter to you that regeneration is not there so that you can continue with your fairy tales and mythologies. Got it!

 

[brightfame52]

Only a person can be saved after they believe not before.

Only the saved believe on Christ.

 

[Doug Brents]

I love Romans:

9 Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart a person believes (adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Christ) and so is justified (declared righteous, acceptable to God), and with the mouth he confesses (declares openly and speaks out freely his faith) and confirms [his] salvation.
11 The Scripture says, No man who believes in Him [who adheres to, relies on, and trusts in Him] will [ever] be put to shame or be disappointed. [Ps. 34:22; Isa. 28:16; 49:23; Jer. 17:7.]
12 [No one] for there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. The same Lord is Lord over all [of us] and He generously bestows His riches upon all who call upon Him [in faith].
13 For everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord [invoking Him as Lord] will be saved. [Joel 2:32.]
Romans 10:9–13.

The Bible clearly states, “For whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved” (Rom. 10:13).

Now, let's not take Rom 10:13 and misinterpret it. Jesus said, "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.'" (Matt 7:21) Just calling on His name, and calling Him "Lord", and doing good things in His name does not save. It is obedience to Him, and showing that He really is your Lord, that saves, because He is the author of salvation to those who obey Him, not just those who say they are His (Heb 5:9).

 

[Doug Brents]

Only the saved believe on Christ.

Again, that is not what Scripture says.
John 3:16 (and many other passages) says belief leads to salvation.
Note that the people in Acts 2:37 believed. And when they asked Peter what they needed to do, his response was not that there is nothing you need to do because you already believe. No, his response to those who already believed was that they still needed to repent and be baptized to receive forgiveness (salvation).

 

[Titus]

Is belief really the ONLY action that Scripture says LEADS TO our reception of salvation? No. Rom 10:9-10 says that confession with the mouth (certifiably a physical act) leads to salvation. "that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."
Belief is not the only act of man that leads to salvation. There are four actions that Scripture lists that LEAD TO our reception of salvation. These actions have no meritorious value, and in no way "earn" salvation, but without them we do not receive salvation from the Lord.

Hello I've never conversed with you before I dont believe.
What church are you a member of?
I'm in the Lords church that Paul identifies as the churches of Christ, Romans 16:16.