"Works Salvation"

@Studyman

All I did was to quote Romans 9:18......... and you came back with this? No, it is you, that continuously reject God's word, that God's mercy is to whomsoever God wills to shew mercy to ~ and it "is not based on our works", but solely upon God's will alone.
Yes, that is your adopted religion. That is your adopted religious philosophy. You are tirelessly laboring to convince as many as possible;

That Paul lied when he said God "will render to every man according to his deeds:

That Jesus lied when HE said; "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man "according as his work" shall be.

That Peter lied when he said, Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's "work", pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

That David lied when he said; "Also unto thee, O Lord, "belongeth mercy": for thou renderest to every man according "to his work".

That Solomon lied
when he said; If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according "to his works"?

That your adopted religions teachers have convinced you that their interpretation of Romans 9:18, makes false every other word that Jesus, Paul, David spoke, in fact makes void the entire Bible.

1 Cor. 3: 8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive "his own reward" according "to his own labour".

But for over a decade now, you have gone out of your way, along with "Many" others who call Jesus Lord, Lord, to convince as many people as you all possibly can, that all these Holy, God inspired Words are a lie, a deception.

And that "YOU" and the religion "YOU" have adopted, supersedes the Holy Scriptures.

But What if the Bible is right Red, and it is you who have been taken captive by the prince of this world, as prophesied, to promote it's philosophy, not God's Truth? Like those "Many" in Matthew 7 Jesus spoke about, that called Jesus Lord, Lord, prophesied in His Name, and cast out demons in His Name. Why did Jesus Himself say HE didn't know them? Was it because their name wasn't pulled out of a hat in a drawing at the foundation of the world as you promote?

Now there is a question I, and many others would love to hear you answer.

You sir are deceived if you believe sinners dead in sins, can do works pleasing to God in order for God to show mercy, that's call a strong delusion you are living under. There is NO MERCY if our works earns mercy when one does not have spiritual life to start with!

In the holy Scripture, God's Mercy is reserved for those who believe Him.

Ez. 18: 20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, (Well there goes Your whole preaching, that you bear the iniquity of Adam) neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness "that he hath done" he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not "that he should return from his ways", and live?

It's not about "earning" anything Red, it's about listening to God, and believing Him. Even when voices like yours work tirelessly to convince men not to Trust in this God. That is the world God has placed mankind in since the Garden of Eden.

I simply want others to consider what is actually written in the Word of God, and encourage them to believe what is written, as the Jesus "of the Bible" instructed. It's simple, it's the simplicity of Christ.

Titus 3:5​

“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;”

Again, you must cherry pick scriptures to justify yourself. But what does Paul actually say to Titus when more of his Inspired Words are considered?

Titus 3: 3 For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

4 But after "that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared",

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

The Kindness and Love of God our Savior toward man, appeared to "Every Creature under heaven". Not because works of righteousness they have done. All men, accept ONE, were foolish, deceived serving the lusts of their evil flesh, worshipping how they want, eating what they want, observing what they want. Having been deceived by the religions of this world that

But for those who believed, "Yielded themselves, Denied themselves, Humbled themselves, offering themselves in obedience to God, as Moses, the Prophets, Jesus, Peter and Paul, in fact the entire Bible teaches, these men were washed. As it is written, I have shown you, but you reject outright.

Is. 1: 16 Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil; 17 Learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow. 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, "they shall be as white as snow"; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the land: 20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Red, there is no justification in the Scriptures for the religion you have adopted. Your adopted teachers are the liars, not God, David, Moses, Isaiah, Jesus, Paul and Peter.


Once more, please listen, do not put a spin of my words: God does not without from men the capacity to obey, he does not have to do that, their fleshly deceived heart does that for them!
You just keep moving to goalpost, changing your own sermons, and why? Can you not see it is for the purpose of preserving, protecting and defending your most valuable and precious possession, that is the only thing you actually own, and that is your selfish, stubborn Pride? The "heart" is a muscle that can be replaced with another heart. For the person received the heart transplant, does he also receive the thoughts, traditions, habits, beliefs of the dead person who donated the heart?

Of course not Red. "Heart", means mind, where the temple of God resides. Where thoughts come and go.

2 Cor. 10: 3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh (literal heart muscle)

4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

5 Casting down imaginations, (Thoughts) and every high thing (Thoughts) that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and "bringing into captivity" every thought "to the obedience of Christ";

6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when "your obedience is fulfilled". (Not Christ's obedience)

You "Choose" the thoughts you allow to rule into your kingdom, that guide you concerning "What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed".

You have opted to reject the Righteousness of God that Jesus said to SEEK. Choosing instead to listen to the "other voice" in the garden God placed you in. You are no spring turkey, you are alive today and therefore still have a chance, because "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance".

He comes like a thief in the night Red. There is no repentance in death. Consider what the Scriptures actually say and turn away from them that "say still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, Ye shall have peace; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, No evil shall come upon you."

Jeremiah 17:9​

“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”

God knows it, that why HE gave us Laws.
This is true of every single man born through Adam's generation. And men like you preach that they can do spiritual acts pleasing unto God, without first being born of God. How true is Ezekiel words of you men that I quoted above.

The problem is that you cherry picked on sentence in the entire 48 chapters of Ezekiel, separated it from the rest of the Bible, and then twisted it to make the rest of the Bible a lie.

Thou shall not steal, is a Spiritual Commandment, not a carnal commandment. God is Spiritual, not carnal. His Laws are Spiritual, your adopted religious traditions are carnal. If you don't steal from me, but you lust after my wife, you are carnal.

Paul tells you what your problem is, you just don't believe Him.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, "when they knew God", they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, ( A God whose words can not be trusted) and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Time for me to shake the dust Red.
 
Titus 3:5
“Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;”
Just curious about what you think the works of righteousness might be. If, in fact, there are none righteous, then what are the works of the righteousness?
 
@Studyman
Kenneth Copeland, Ted Haggard, Jim Baker, Bill Gothard, Tony Alamo, Bob Coy, Jimmy Swaggart, Mike Hintz, Robert Tilton, the list goes on and on, and I can't even count the Catholic Priests, who are all circumcised, and were all baptized in the Name of Christ Jesus. Just as the Pharisees and Sadducees were circumcised and cleansed with baptism of water in God's Name. Even Paul tells of the Israelites that were "Baptized in the Red Sea".
Well, not sure if all these were circumcised or not, literally speaking, and according to the teachings of OT Jews. They for sure, based on their works, were never circumcised according to Paul's NT teaching, and the only circumcision that is without hands and, that is a proof of eternal life in the world to come, the only one that counts.

Philippians 3:3​

“For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.”

Notice Paul said three distinct things concerning those who have been truly circumcised by the Spirit of the Living God:

1). We worship God in the spirit, not by abstaining from certain meats, not drinking certain beverages, not what goes in our mouths, keeping our haircut a certain length, wearing certain clothes, not going to certain places, driving certain cars, the Pharisaical list goes on and on.

2). We rejoice only in Christ Jesus as our great high Priest, out blessed surety, in his faith and righteousness alone as the One who was made sins for us, so that we can be made the righteousness of God through his obedience alone for our right to enter into eternal life in that great day of God Almighty, which is fast approaching mankind.

3). Those who have been circumcised by the Spirit of the Living God have "no" confidence in the flesh ~ not even an ounce of confidence, unlike men like you who believe that flesh and blood without the Spirit of God living in them can do spiritual acts pleasing unto the God of heaven and earth. I stand with the beloved apostle Paul who preached the truth, from the scriptures a truth that even our own daily life proves to be so, as we see sin working in our members, even in our most holy moment, sin is present, and to believe otherwise, is to be living under "a very strong" delusion.
Just as the Pharisees and Sadducees were circumcised and cleansed with baptism of water in God's Name.
We do not know that they were ever baptized with water, since John refused to baptized them until they brought forth works worthy to be baptized, as we would do folks today, no worthy fruits, no water baptism. Show forth the fruits of a born again person, then, and only then, one is worthy to be baptized into the rellgion, faith of Jesus Christ. Per Philip in Acts 8:37; Peter in Acts 10:47.
And yet cutting all the loose skin off their penis, and the water baptism meant nothing. As Paul teaches, "For circumcision verily profiteth, "if thou keep the law": but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.
"if thou keep the law"~Which no man can do, which proves that only a circumcision done without hands is what allows one to be baptized into water now, and to enter into eternal life in the world to come.
All these men and millions more, used religion to molest other peoples children to satisfy the evil lust of their flesh, steal money and property from widows, scammed millions and millions of dollars from those who trusted them to satisfy the lust and greed of their wicked flesh, and preached a religion that contradicts the Holy Scriptures in every case. And they were all "Baptized in the Name of Christ Jesus".
Agreed
Greek for Baptism means to be "immersed". Completely committed. When we are in water, it influences our entire body. Nothing is spared by the influence. Every inch of our flesh is affected/influenced by the water.
Before we even get into the water, one must be committed to the faith/religion/teachings of the word of God concerning Jesus Christ~not so sure what you mean by: "Every inch of our flesh is affected/influenced by the water."

It is in our spirit we are submitting to and giving a answer of a good conscience unto God concerning the gospel of his Son. We do not need to make it more complicated than what I just said. We are dealing with new born babes in Christ, babies have a blank slate and we fill it with the word of God as they desire the sincere milk of word of God, over time they go from infant stage, to young men, to fathers in the faith! 1st John 2:12-14.

For me, this means when a person is baptized in the Name of Christ Jesus, we are immersed into His Teaching, it effects our entire life, influences our entire flesh. What we do, how we walk, thoughts we dwell on, etc. It's a new way of life. It's Spiritual, just as the cutting off the loose skin of a penis, which leaves women out I guess, really means to "Cast off" the sins of the flesh, and no longer letting it rule our life, rather, "bring every Thought into captivity, unto the obedience of Christ.

Because really, is God interested in penises, or swimming pools? No Red Baker.
Never said He was, but, could use a little more holy discretion?
Studyman, it is hard to believe men are so blind, as you are showing yourself to be! You can read Romans 8:5-7 and leave believing that Jesus believed in and taught that flesh and blood can walk in the Spirit if he only commits himself to do so! Yet, it is clearly written: "Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

You are past me of helping you, only the power of God can open your eyes to your serious error. Do you truly understand what it means when Paul said: "For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh"? It means to still be living in the flesh only, and not born of the Spirit! Because the next phrase said: "but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit" to be after the Spirit is to have the Spirit of God living in you which is the only way of anyone living the word of God. Just read the next two verses:

Romans 8:8,9​

“So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
This world's religions promote a philosophy that Jesus wasn't tempted in all ways as other humans. That HE reserved unto Himself God Powers that HE withholds from all other humans, and that is how HE overcame sin. That HE didn't overcome sin by Faith as HE requires of all others, rather, HE reserved Powers unto Himself no other human was allowed to have. Then HE Glorified Himself because HE Overcame, and gave Himself a name above all other humans.
What you do not understand, and may never understand this side of the grave, is that Jesus was a complex person: 100% God, 100% man, and these two natures never interacted, never. Mock on Ismael, mock on, and you will end up in the lake of fire if you reject Jesus being God manifest in human flesh! Enough on this for now.
It's the same mindset you chose to adopt and promote about the God and Father of All, that HE withholds from humans the ability to turn to Him, and then punishes them "because" they didn't turn to Him.
Blame Adam, not God, for your blinded and deceitful heart. God made man upright and provided all he needed to continue in that state~and the very second God left them to themselves, they sinned against him, created flesh and blood is not God proven by the fall of Adam and Eve. You folks have made a god out of flesh and blood.






 
So then according to TULIP one is not saved by believing on Christ or repentance.
Correct, one was saved by Christ Person and work, and then as an evidence and to give them assurance and knowledge of it they are given Faith and repentance to believe it. Both believing and repentance are good acts showing forth the fruit of salvation by Christ
How can Jesus say, "Whosoever believes and is baptized will be saved"?
Because they will be saved, that's why they believe and were baptized as acts of obedience. Also will be saved is in the future tense ensuring they will be saved always, even from the wrath to come Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

This is bible soteriology 101
 
Correct, one was saved by Christ Person and work, and then as an evidence and to give them assurance and knowledge of it they are given Faith and repentance to believe it. Both believing and repentance are good acts showing forth the fruit of salvation by Christ

Because they will be saved, that's why they believe and were baptized as acts of obedience. Also will be saved is in the future tense ensuring they will be saved always, even from the wrath to come Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

This is bible soteriology 101
ROT!!
 
Blame Adam, not God, for your blinded and deceitful heart. God made man upright and provided all he needed to continue in that state~and the very second God left them to themselves, they sinned against him, created flesh and blood is not God proven by the fall of Adam and Eve. You folks have made a god out of flesh and blood.

Right to the very end you must promote your masters hatred for God and His Son. Teaching all that who will listen to you that God abandoned Adam and Eve, like a corrupt parent abandons a child, then punishes the child for his actions while being abandoned, blaming the child. That Even though God gave them the "Word of God", it wasn't Adam and Eve who abandoned the Word of God, no, according to Red Baker, it was the Word of God that abandoned Adam and Eve.

Another is a long line of wicked and evil Judgments against God and His Son. I am grateful that through this discussion your wickedness has been exposed to others who are seeking God's Truth. Not just a doctrinal error here or there, but out right distain for the God of Abraham and the Jesus "of the Bible".

And I hope they can also see how tirelessly you labor to defend and justify your every word, to preserve your most precious and treasured possession, the only thing you really care about, your wicked pride.

Baptism did nothing for you Red, just as did nothing for your brothers whose names I posted.

"From such depart", and I do not bid you God speed.
 
Blame yourself, not Adam or God, for your blinded and deceitful heart.
Apostolic Doctrine has it that it was from the Sin of Adam Death came upon man and wrought in man Rom 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

And that's why babies die, Adams sin death has seized them, even though they never like Adam sinned by disobeying a direct command

Rom 5:13-14

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
 
Apostolic Doctrine has it that it was from the Sin of Adam Death came upon man and wrought in man Rom 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

And that's why babies die, Adams sin death has seized them, even though they never like Adam sinned by disobeying a direct command

Rom 5:13-14

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

I know you will refuse accept this because of your adopted religion, but Adam and Eve had not eaten from the tree of life. They, like all mortal life, would die a natural death. That is why God had "life" reproducing, "after their kind" from the very creation.

Had Adam chosen life, when God "set before them this day life and good, and death and evil", they would have earned the right to Eat of the Tree of Life and would be alive today, instead of dead and buried, and remain that way until God resurrects them from the dead and judges them. As the Christ "of the Bible" teaches to those who believe Him.

Rev. 22: 12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as "his work" shall be. 13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they "may have right" to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Natural death reigned from Adam to Moses, even to those who had not sinned like Adam did, because until a man eats of the tree of life, he will die.

Jesus was the first human (First Fruit) to have right to the Tree of Life.
 
Thats to the regenerated elect, God is commanding[present tense] them and causing them to repent, and repentance is always unto the acknowledgement of the Truth which is belief 2 Tim 2:25

25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

God has people now in the New Covenant era He is commanding to repent and acknowledge the truth, not just in israel amongs jews. Gods commanding is effectual !

Ps 33 9


9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

2 Cor 4:6


6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
exegesis requires words to be understood by their literal primary meaning unless something in the context shows it is being used figuratively.

"all men every where" the literal primary meaning of 'all' is each and every single one, none excluded and nothing within the context shows 'all' is being used in anyway other than by its literal primary meaning....no qualifiers or restrictions are placed on "all", The term 'everywhere' shows the universality of repenting...all men everywhere.


"And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now..." The word 'now' shows a contrast in time. "times of this ignorance" refers to the period before the gospel and "now" refers to this present gospel dispensation. Back then during OT times God did not always press the Gentiles to repent as He did with Nineveh. God would just give them up to their own vile affections Rom 1. But NOW God commands ALL, each and everyone none lacking to repent.

Paul is telling those idolators in Athens they should seek the Lord. v27, that ALL are NOW commanded to repent because of the coming judgement, v31. Nothing in the context that God has decreed only certain individuals to repent. That idea is being read into the context as you read "unconditional made" in Rom 5:18-19 context.


All men have been commanded to repent. God's command implies ability, accountability and responsibility in obeying the command for the impenitent will face judgement. If repentance were impossible without God 'causing' it to happen then the command is incoherent and absurd.

We find God's preceptive (what He desires of man) will not His decretive will here. It is God's desire that all men obey His command and repent yet when it comes to God's preceptive will He does not always get from man what He desires. Matt 23:37 Jesus WOULD (preceptive will) those Jews be under His protective wing and saved but those Jews WOULD NOT (free will) and their house left desolate for their rejection what Jesus desired of them.

-----------

2 Tim 2 Paul is teaching Timothy how to deal with false teachers or those within the church that are in error. The verse does not teach that repentance is only for some in error but ALL to come to repentance and be recovered out of the snare of the devil.

To give repentance means God will give those in error the opportunity to repent through the gospel and correction not unconditionally give repentance only to some men in error.

If one can only repent if God "causes" it, then there is no need for Timothy (or any Christian) to go and teach the gospel and correcting error for that does nothing, it is pointless, it will change nothing and is a futile waste of time. The 'opponents' Timothy goes to are either 1) already of the so-called predetermined 'elect' and God will cause them to repent, Timothy's preaching to them does nothing. 2) or they are not of the elect and Timothy's preaching is still pointless for no amount of teaching and correction can bring about a change in them.

Yet the reason Paul sends Timothy to preach is because there is no such thing as the Calvinist elect, that men can hear the gospel instructions (lead them to knowledge of the truth) and choose to change.


Why does Paul tell Timothy to correct opponents with gentleness if that correction can never accomplish anything unless God has already secretly decided to cause repentance?

You read things into this context as you do with Rom 5:18-19 causing major contradictions and logical fallacies but you never want to clean up these messes you make.
 
Last edited:
I know you will refuse accept this because of your adopted religion, but Adam and Eve had not eaten from the tree of life. They, like all mortal life, would die a natural death.
No I dont believe that from Gods statement here Gen 3 22

And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
 
@Studyman
Right to the very end you must promote your masters hatred for God and His Son. Teaching all that who will listen to you that God abandoned Adam and Eve, like a corrupt parent abandons a child, then punishes the child for his actions while being abandoned, blaming the child.
If you were not so ignorant of the holy scriptures, then you would never make such a foolish statement, that you are making, not to mention the wicked spin you put on words of others you hate, because they expose men like you with the scriptures of truth. .

Could God not have prevented Adam's fall? Of course, no problem ~ he did with certain of his elect angels, others he left them to their own free will and wisdom, and they quickly left their own estate for greener pastures, at least they thought so!
That Even though God gave them the "Word of God", it wasn't Adam and Eve who abandoned the Word of God, no, according to Red Baker, it was the Word of God that abandoned Adam and Eve.
Yes, God gave them one simple commandment, and they immediately disobeyed it through the subtilty of Satan, who fell just before they did. The word of God is not the means of man's disobedience, how foolish to even mention this. Try to be honest, I know I'm asking something that you most likely are not capable of doing.
Another is a long line of wicked and evil Judgments against God and His Son. I am grateful that through this discussion your wickedness has been exposed to others who are seeking God's Truth. Not just a doctrinal error here or there, but out right distain for the God of Abraham and the Jesus "of the Bible".
I'm not concern with what I have said thus far, but surely if any man has a little light, they know who is walking in darkness.
You reject the Jesus of the word of God, since you flat out reject his deity as the God of Genesis 1:1 and the only God man or angels will ever see!
Baptism did nothing for you Red, just as did nothing for your brothers whose names I posted.
In a regenerating sense, I agree; in a practical sense, it identified me the faith and religion of the Lord Jesus Christ, Praise be to his holy name.

The men you mentioned above, are more in line with your teachings than mine! None of them believes in God's election of pure grace, and most of them believes God's elect are not alwasy loved, but that they could lose being loved of God, I do not, let that be clear to you. You should be much more concerned than I should as far as who embraces each other doctrine and who in church history stands up with with the other and shouts amen, and amen.
 
Apostolic Doctrine has it that it was from the Sin of Adam Death came upon man and wrought in man Rom 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

And that's why babies die, Adams sin death has seized them, even though they never like Adam sinned by disobeying a direct command

Rom 5:13-14

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
Your interpretation/understanding of that passage is wrong as is so much of the rest of what you read in the Bible.

Sin entered the world through Adam. That was the extent of it. Adam is responsible for his sin, no other. Death spread to all men because all men sinned. Until you understand that was the extent of Adam's sin your soteriology will always be wrong.

And what is your definition of "the similitude of Adam's transgression"?
 
Last edited:
And death Rom 5:12

12 ;Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
Just one more clumsy old English rendition from the KJV.

Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned--

Not because of Adam!!


 
lol You find all kind of reasons to reject the scripture. I dont know why you always asking someone to show you something they said from the scripture, cause you aint going to believe it.
LOL And you think you know scripture. You read from an Old English version and you don't understand the Old English language.
 
Back
Top Bottom