"Works Salvation"

[Studyman]

We must take care not to nullify grace through legalism Gal. 2:21

Legalism (Works Salvation) is concerned with keeping the law while ignoring the law-giver.

How does this make sense. A man is called to turn to God through His Son. His Son tells them that if they want to live forever, they must repent and "Sin no more", or in another place, "Keep God's Commandments". How is following the instruction of God and HIS Son, wrong or evil, or "keeping the law while ignoring the law-giver".

Keeping what law? The Laws Jesus said to keep?

It's Christ-less law-keeping. It is elevating commandments of men to the level of a doctrine from God.”

So then, maybe I am understanding you now. If a religious sect or business, comes in Christ's Name, but they promote their own judgments, not God's, they our high days, not God's, their own Sabbaths, not God's, their own traditions and their own image of God in the likeness of a golden calf, or handsome man, this would be "Christ-less/Godless" (They are ONE, Yes) law-keeping". Elevating popular religious traditions of man to doctrines of God.

This makes perfect sense, as this is exactly what the mainstream religions of Jesus' Time did.

Mark 7: 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

So then "Legalism", is not "Yielding oneself" a servant to Obey God, as Jesus and all the Faithful examples in the Scriptures did, but "Yielding oneself" a servant to obey the doctrines and traditions of one of the many manmade religious sects and businesses of this world God placed us in, whose traditions cause those who adopt them to "Transgress God's Commandments".

I think Jesus would agree with this understanding.

Jesus plus nothing equals everything. That may be the best “math” equation ever. This formula reminds us that Jesus, and His sacrificial death and perfect righteous life, are our hope and peace. He alone is our salvation. He alone holds the hope of eternal life for sinners like us. It is through faith in Him that we become recipients of God’s eternal promises.

I see, so then like HE said, it's the "Doers" of His Sayings, not the hearers only, who will endure to the end. And what does HE say?

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee "the only true God", and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

And how can a man "know this God"?

Jesus told us this as well, in my understanding.

Matt. 6: 33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Which makes perfect sense. We all have works, but those who "do Truth" come to the Light in order to know if they are wrought in God, or man.

 

[Clifford]

God’s power to save and transform is linked to His righteousness not ours.

Paul speaks of the gospel as “the power of God for salvation” Romans 1:16

His power not ours. Our power would be "works salvation".

Paul also tells us that, “the righteousness of God has been manifested” in his saving action in the sacrifice of Christ. Romans 3:21 So we become the righteousness of God by believing not by works. It becomes effective when we believe. Not when we jump through enough hoops.

2 Corinthians 5:21 says, “God made him (Jesus) who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” Though this grace is offered to all human beings, it is only effective for those who believe in Jesus Christ.

Sharing in both Christ’s death and resurrection, believers have “been set free from sin” Romans 6:7, 18

Once we believe in Jesus Christ we are no longer enslaved to sin but free to pursue righteous obedience. So Then, After we're saved we can do good works.

 

[Studyman]

Wrong answer! Everything in your post can be turned right back at you. It's called "opinion" and everybody has one. Including leaders of the Cults. Jim Jones was excellent on convincing his people that his interpretation of the Bible was correct. They fell for it hook line and singer. That's why over 900 of them committed suicide.

The religious sect of the Pharisees were also excellent at convincing folks to adopt their religion which taught for doctrines the commandments and traditions of men. And "many" fell for their religious traditions, which cause those who adopted them to Transgress God's Commandments, hook line and sinker as well. In a sense the Jews who had adopted and were promoting the Pharisees religion, were committing spiritual suicide as well.

Would it not be the same for the many religions which exist in the world God place placed us in today? Religious sects and businesses who promote doctrines and traditions of men, which cause those who adopt them hook line and sinker, to Transgress God's Commandments?

 

[Clifford]

The religious sect of the Pharisees were also excellent at convincing folks to adopt their religion which taught for doctrines the commandments and traditions of men. And "many" fell for their religious traditions, which cause those who adopted them to Transgress God's Commandments, hook line and sinker as well. In a sense the Jews who had adopted and were promoting the Pharisees religion, were committing spiritual suicide as well.

Would it not be the same for the many religions which exist in the world God place placed us in today? Religious sects and businesses who promote doctrines and traditions of men, which cause those who adopt them hook line and sinker, to Transgress God's Commandments?

Just don't drink the Kool-Aid

 

[mikepec]

I think that you might have a typo, you said that the opposite of believe is obey, when John 3:36 uses a parallel statement to equate believe with obey.

correct. Thanks.
I meant disobey, the meaning of “ apeithon”

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Does unwrapping a gift "earn" the reception of the gift? Does following the instructions in a will "merit" the reception of the bequest? No, you receive what is gifted to you freely, but you still have to unwrap it or meet the requirements of the will.
Salvation is not earned or merited by obedience. But without obedience the gift is not received.

Describe your "Unwrapping process".

 

[Doug Brents]

Wrong answer! Everything in your post can be turned right back at you. It's called "opinion" and everybody has one. Including leaders of the Cults. Jim Jones was excellent on convincing his people that his interpretation of the Bible was correct. They fell for it hook line and singer. That's why over 900 of them committed suicide.

I have no problem with you turning my post back on me. Because Scripture, not my opinion of it, says exactly what I have been saying.

But you think that even the question was wrong?

No, I am going to ask that you answer this question: Read these two passages of Scripture. Tell me what (if any) is the cause, and what (if any) is the effect found in each of these passages; which concept in each verse must come first and which is the result of that first thing.
Rom 10:9-10
Acts 3:19

 

[Doug Brents]

Describe your "Unwrapping process".

Acts 3:19 - repent of your sins so that you can be forgiven
Rom 10:9-10 - confess Jesus as Lord so that you can be saved
Mark 16:16 - believe the Gospel and be baptized so that you can be saved

These are the only actions (recorded in other Scriptures as well) that Scripture lists as "leading to" reception of salvation.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Acts 3:19 - repent of your sins so that you can be forgiven
Rom 10:9-10 - confess Jesus as Lord so that you can be saved
Mark 16:16 - believe the Gospel and be baptized so that you can be saved

These are the only actions (recorded in other Scriptures as well) that Scripture lists as "leading to" reception of salvation.

So no FAITH is required in your version of being Born again???

 

[Clifford]

Acts 3:19 - repent of your sins so that you can be forgiven
Rom 10:9-10 - confess Jesus as Lord so that you can be saved
Mark 16:16 - believe the Gospel and be baptized so that you can be saved

These are the only actions (recorded in other Scriptures as well) that Scripture lists as "leading to" reception of salvation.

That process is not going to work. You have to be in possession of the gift in order to unwrap it.

First we need to exercise our faith in Jesus Christ by Believing the gospel. After that the whole subsequent development, and the process of salvation has its beginning then, when a man turns to Christ by faith you become a born again Christian.

The preaching of the Cross is to them who are in the act of perishing, foolishness; unto us who are being saved, It is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:18

Once good works are introduced into the salvation process, salvation is no longer by faith alone; it is by faith and works.

 

[Clifford]

So no FAITH is required in your version of being Born again???

Sure looks that way as it's not mentioned once.

 

[Doug Brents]

So no FAITH is required in your version of being Born again???

You asked what constitutes the "unwrapping process".
Faith includes believing (intellectual assent) the Gospel, and obedience to the things that Scripture says LEAD TO receiving salvation. So clearly a person must first hear the Gospel, and believe it (Rom 10:14). But the "unwrapping process" is the actions we must take, and that is repentance, confession of Jesus' name, and baptism.

 

[Soyeong]

Once good works are introduced into the salvation process, salvation is no longer by faith alone; it is by faith and works.

Do you deny that we can do works that express faith?

 

[Obadiah]

Works salvation just plain doesn't work.

The Bible is quite clear that our own works do not help merit salvation.

 

[Obadiah]

Do you deny that we can do works that express faith?

That doesn't have anything to do with salvation. See the post above

 

[Soyeong]

That doesn't have anything to do with salvation. See the post above

Works can be required for reasons other than in order to earn our salvation as a wage, especially because that was never one of the purposes for which God commanded works. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we are not required to have first obeyed it in order to earn our salvation as the result, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not living in obedience to it.

 

[Doug Brents]

That process is not going to work. You have to be in possession of the gift in order to unwrap it.

The gift was laid out for every individual in the World when Jesus died and rose again.

First we need to exercise our faith in Jesus Christ by Believing the gospel. After that the whole subsequent development, and the process of salvation has its beginning then, when a man turns to Christ by faith you become a born again Christian.

Wrong. One is not born again until they are baptized, because in Rom 6:1-4, Col 2:11-14 we are told that the OLD man enters into baptism, and the NEW man arises out of baptism.

The preaching of the Cross is to them who are in the act of perishing, foolishness; unto us who are being saved, It is the power of God.
1 Corinthians 1:18

Once good works are introduced into the salvation process, salvation is no longer by faith alone; it is by faith and works.

James 2 says that we are not saved by "faith alone" (James 2:24).

Let me ask you a question about two passages. Can you tell me what the condition (if any) and what is the "reward" (if any) that is listed in these two passages.
Rom 10:9-10
Acts 3:19

 

[Doug Brents]

Works salvation just plain doesn't work.

The Bible is quite clear that our own works do not help merit salvation.

Clearly our works do not help merit salvation. But without actions (works) we do not have belief, and without belief we are not saved. If there is no action behind the belief, then our belief is dead, worthless, and meaningless (James 2:26).

 

[Clifford]

Works can be required for reasons other than in order to earn our salvation as a wage, especially because that was never one of the purposes for which God commanded works. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we are not required to have first obeyed it in order to earn our salvation as the result, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not living in obedience to it.

Wow.... Jesus saving us is part of a concept? Who knew?

 

[Soyeong]

Wow.... Jesus saving us is part of a concept? Who knew?

Indeed, "salvation" is a concept.