What is "mere belief" and no "faith"? They are the same word in Greek? Belief in God is the same as faith in God.
"Works Salvation"
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Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
verily verily i do write unto thee ,
many beleive in and thus have faith in another god and another jesus .
WHOSE WORDS WE BELEIVE actually DOES MATTER .
IS it the words inspired of GOD that we beleive or is it rather men that twist and omit such words
in fa vor of a god that is more suited to this day and this age and t his generation .
cause the latter god , IS Only satan . Just a friendly reminder for us all that indeed
it has been and truly is TIME we g et back into the bible for ourselves . I do hope that encouraged you my friend .
I don't think you understood my question. That is probably you don't understand that in scripture belief and faith are one and the same; there is no difference. Belief in God is faith in God.
The only place in the NT where the word belief appears is 2 Thess 2:13. And that only in some translations; other translations have the word faith. In the Greek the word is πίστει [from pistis].
mailmandan
Active Member
Eternally-Grateful most likely meant "mere belief" as in mere "mental assent" belief, like the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" (James 2:19) but they do not believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and are not saved. (Acts 16:31) Same Greek word (pisteuo) but depending on the context, belief may fall short of faith, trust, reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In regard to demons, their trust and reliance are in Satan (and not Jesus) as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.
That could be. But unfortunately, there are too many who seem to have a really poor understanding of what faith is and what it means to have faith.
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
just remember its not me joining hands with this huge ecumenical love unity interfaith .
My faith be IN JESUS CHRIST , not that lie . So in the end
it will be seen who did t ruly beleive and who rather beleived in unbelief .
And it wont have been both my friend . Either we beleived the gospel or we beleived in unbelief .
That outta shut the lips of those anti christs saying all reli goins serve the same GOD .
Now to the trenches jim , the hour is late and the delusion has gr own great .
Yes, the hour it seems must be very late.
e v e
Active Member
its simple..."Works salvation" is a term that gets thown around a lot on forums as this one.
1) What is "works salvation"? How does one define "works salvation" according to the Bible?
2) What is an example from the Bible of "works salvation"?
3) Was Noah's work in building the ark "to the saving of his house" (Heb 11:7) a "works salvation"?
Why is salvation by works the predominantly held viewpoint? | GotQuestions.org
Why is salvation by works the predominantly held viewpoint? Why do so many people believe that we can be saved by works?www.gotquestions.org
Is the above link correct in saying that "works salvation" is man trying to control his own eternal destiny? Is it true that man has no control, no role at all in his own eternal destiny? Did Noah have no control, no role at all in the saving of his house?
satan asks us to do things, and so does God.
will one follow the world or stay in God?
Most just do what satan asks, after all
he is disguised as christian, even
as a Christian preacher in the
form of church fathers, vatican-rome,
protestant pastors in any sect be it whatever
all trained up to be very confused..
by satan's minion esaus running
bible theology as Guards.
There is no such thing as the term 'works salvation' in anything He said.
Or else, show where he said those words "works salvation" in an exact quote
saying Works Salvation. Because it does not exist.
But God does give souls jobs. He asks us to do things. And this is the only meaning of
burying one's talents...to ignore that job...which 99.99999 then and now do ignore.
Some souls, as remnant, have a job in getting out of here = meeting Christ on the clouds...
which God has asked of them. however,
No one cares or wants to know, nor is even aware of it...
so busy they are with earthly 'life'
so no point in mentioning any of that here.
But today, modern christianity is anti Christ. Against Christ...
has turned doing what God asked into pretzel jingles like 'works salvation'
and many other jingles He never said, since He does not talk that way...
and being spelled to the max, modern christianity does not care to get unspelled.
and ruled by esau who by the way trains all its pastors in
their 'theology' and bully those who depart from it
they fear stepping out of line and getting crushed by their
god, whoever that is. And what of a god who crushes
their little one trying to walk? Just an analogy.
There is no antichrist figure other than modern christianity
as esau devised it and developed it over centuries,
since before Christ was even born on this
earth.
does this mean evangelicals are hell bound? Or catholics?
or protestants any other soul of Him? No.
But also, well, depends on where you think we already are right now.
We ain't in Kansas.
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Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
Jim there is only one way by which anyone can be set free from the powers of satan and of darkness .
Always remember that . FAITH IN JESUS .
For the devil knows this too and thus he is going about
convincing the world , the false religoins and even much of christendom
that they are already in fact serving the same GOD in different ways .
He will make this merger seem as a necessary cause for the good of humanity
that all religoins come together to find common ground and for world peace .
But he is a liar . He does not care if one is buddists , he does not care if they are muslim
Nor atheists , nor any other mindset . HE ALREADY HAS THEM
so long as they walk IN UNBELEIF of JESUS THE CHRIST .
HE is slick friend . That is how he is merging and even convincing christendom to merge
with the religoins to find common ground for peace .
HE is a liar . HE only desires the death and destruction of all of humanity.
He knows that JESUS is the only NAME whereby one may be saved .
SO he is g onna present a lie made to sound loving , kind and good and for
the good and peace of humanity . He will present another jesus
that will accept sins and even UNBELIEF . ONLY that AINT JESUS at all . We must be refreshed in prayer
and in daily reading of the scriptures for reminders .
Darrell L.
Active Member
Salvation is by the grace of God and not by man’s works is a conclusion justly and explicitly drawn from Scripture.
The question, therefore, is: Does salvation by faith contradict salvation by grace?
Does salvation by faith imply, in some subtle way, salvation by works. Scripture itself provides a clear answer: “By faith” is not “by works” but is “by grace.”
The question, therefore, is: Does salvation by faith contradict salvation by grace?
Does salvation by faith imply, in some subtle way, salvation by works. Scripture itself provides a clear answer: “By faith” is not “by works” but is “by grace.”
Doug Brents
Active Member
The problem that exists in the "grace only" doctrine is that it does not account for all of what Scripture says about salvation. Yes, God chose to offer salvation to mankind by His own choice and without input or "works" of man. But He does not force salvation upon anyone. He does not drop salvation on some and refuse it to others. He wants all to come to repentance.
So what does Scripture says is required to receive His grace? Several things that man must do are specified in Scripture, and as @mikesw said in the thread "Thomas... My Lord and my God", "you make the mistake of seeing one verse cancel out another. The task in scripture is dominantly making the most accommodating sense of such scriptures instead of using the one you like to deny the one you dislike". We must accept all of what Scripture says about salvation, and not use some verses to cancel out others.
In order to receive the gift of salvation from God, we must first hear the Word of God (the Gospel) preached (Rom 10:14). If we don't hear the Gospel, then we don't know what it is that we are to have faith in.
Upon hearing the Word, we have a choice. We can choose to believe in Jesus or deny Him. If we deny Him, we remain lost (for all are already lost).
But if we choose to believe in Jesus, then we must demonstrate that belief in obedience to God's commands. Just having a thought in your heart is not faith. Faith must produce action, or it is not really faith.
So what actions of faith does Scripture say are required to receive salvation?
Repentance (Acts 3:19)
Confession of Jesus as Lord, both verbal and public (Rom 10:9-10, Matt 10:32).
Baptism (Acts 2:38, Rom 6:1-7, Col 2:11-14, 1 Pet 3:21). There are more verses for each of these truths.
Salvation by faith (the requirement of the actions listed above) does not contradict salvation by grace in any way.
I whole heartedly agree. I would add the comment, that in most cases, it says that salvation is by grace and through faith. Grace is God's part; faith is our part. Both are necessary.
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
Yes indeed my friend .
What must i do to BE saved .
BELEIVE ye on JESUS the Glorious CHRIST .
Have you noticed that especially in this last and late generation ,
that we have many what ifs , or how abouts , or this and thats .
I bet if anyone here was drowning in an ocean
and i came with a rope and a bouy and hollered
Here i am going to throw this to you , just grab ahold and let me pull you into the boat ,
NOT ONE voice would be saying
HOW come the rope is not red , how c ome the bouy is not white
NO THEY WOULD GRAB AHOLD for dear life .
And now a word for as to the WHY behind why many DO NOT grab ahold OF CHRIST JESUS .
for many are drowning in sins
And along cometh the gospel life line
and it is thrown unto them
and yet they say , NO , as they drown in the depths of the SIN they so love .
THE reason man will not come to THE LIGHT
is because he loveth his sins , the darkness and comes not LEST he evil deeds be reproved .
So what did they do . THEY invented a god and a jesus THAT NOW ACCEPTS SINS
accepts unbeleif , accepts what they love most , their sins and yet promises them salvation .
ONLY we have us a problem with that jesus . Because THE JESUS does not accept sins , does not call evil good
does not honor a fat path OF UNBELIEF . but , yoo hoo , I KNOW exactly
who does and thus he will preach another jesus made in his own image . A h int , YA SEEN HIM in the garden
and he went to work on eve real fast . WE DARN sure dont want to follow that .
Affinity
Active Member
The question confronting each of us, therefore, is that of the basis upon which our salvation can be gained. We are powerless. All our ability must be set aside. It is accomplished for us, and God alone can do it. He alone can make us a new creation; He alone can deal with sin; He alone can bestow a perfect righteousness; He alone can translate from the powers of darkness into the kingdom of His dear Son.
We choose to believe this truth or to reject it. Keep in mind that belief isn't just a feeling but an act of will. It signifies taking a deliberate step towards a path, embracing light or truth, and accepting responsibility for that commitment and abide in Christ.
We choose to believe this truth or to reject it. Keep in mind that belief isn't just a feeling but an act of will. It signifies taking a deliberate step towards a path, embracing light or truth, and accepting responsibility for that commitment and abide in Christ.
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
And HE alone put me into the bible to learn and to love The truth .
The v ery truth by which sure can make one wise unto salvation through faith IN THAT JESUS .
Because what i say to one i must now say to all
Many in christendom follow another jesus . And no matter how much this jesus has p romised
them salvation
IT simply cannot save them . The devil can wear wool as so can his minstirs .
But one thing i do know , and that by grace , THE TRUTH wont lead one astray .
Lets have us a entrodus back into the bible . Do be encouraged .
I don't think it can be denied that God's Salvation through His Grace is made available to men by a series of amazing and powerful "Works". To teach as much would be a great falsehood in my view. But these "works" are not "man's works", but Works of God, as it is written:
Eph. 2: 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of (Mans) works, lest "any man" should boast.
So then, what is the "Gift of God" here? The Grace of God? Or the Faith of Christ towards God that we were are instructed to have?
Is it the "Faith" were are instructed to have that is "not of man's work"? Or the Grace of God HE gives that is founded in His Mercy and Loving Kindness towards man, that is "not of man's work"?
I think Paul answers these questions in the following verses.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus "unto good works", which God hath before ordained that "we should walk in them".
For the purpose of seeking God's Truth, I would ask the question, "Did God "ordain" works for Abraham to walk in? And did HE not also "ordain" works for the Children of Israel to walk in?
So which ones were said to have "Faith"? Abraham, who "Yielded himself" to God and walked in the "Good Works" God before ordained that he should walk in them, as it is written: "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws."
Or the Children of Israel, who refused to "Yield Themselves" to God, but as it is written, "Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted".
In my understanding, Abraham was said to have Faith "based on his works". (without which Faith is dead)
But the Children of Israel, as it is written, "for they are a very froward generation, children in whom "is no faith". And this also "based on their works".
So it seems based on these and many more Scriptures, that God's Grace is the Gift of God, that is not of "man's work", lest any man should boast. But "Faith" is a choice we make when we "yield ourselves" to the "Good Works" that God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Which is the purpose of God's Grace, that we are renewed in the spirit of our mind, to "put on" the new man, created in Christ Jesus, in the first place, Yes?
I don't think God makes such a division. According to what is written, men are saved (Salvation) by God's Gift of Grace, "Through Faith".
There is no other way to God's Gift of Grace, except though faith, and there is no Salvation without God's Grace.
I think this is why Jesus said, "I tell you, Nay: but, "except ye repent", ye shall all likewise perish". Repentance is the first "work" of Faith.
Paul told both Jew and Gentile to "Repent, turn to God, and bring forth "Works" Worthy of Repentance". (Acts 26:20)
And again:
Eph. 4: 22 That "ye put off" concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; 23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; 24 And that "ye put on" the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
This is Faith, as demonstrated by Abraham.
You can see how the understanding changes, when a man considers that he is saved by Grace "through faith". God's Grace has existed since before Noah received it. It existed before I was born, and it will continue to exist long after I'm dead and gone. But the Faith required for me to receive God's Grace, is only achievable in my short life. Repentance is only achievable in my short life. "Putting off the old man, and putting on the new man, is only achievable in this life.
I think this is why Paul said the following:
2 cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
And Peter;
2 Pet. 3: 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. 14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
And Paul again;
Phil. 3: 12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, 14 I press toward the mark "for the prize" of the high calling of God "in Christ Jesus". 15 Let "us" therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
What a great discussion to have among the Brethren.
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
so watch and behold this simple example my friend .
IF two men came upon you
and one said to walk across this tight rope you need a ten foot bar
The other said to walk across this tight rope you need no bar .
TELL ME which one was your faith in . THE ONE YOU BELEIVED . HIS WORDS .
OH YEAH , F AITH < BELIEF , IT SURE IS T IED TOGE THER ALL RIGHT .
and the last time i checked not you , not me not any HAS SEEN GOD .
BUT WE SURE DO HAVE LOTS OF HIS WORDS In the bible .
ARE WE TWSTING THEM , aer we BELEIVING THEM .
cause who we BELEIVE , well ITS where our faith IS . WHO we love WE DO OBEY . these are some simple facts
that christendom in large no longer even knows .
So then, are you saying that there is a difference between belief in God and faith in God?
Tothalordbeallglory
Active Member
No . i am saying if we do not beleive the words of God , of Christ
THEN we do not BELEIVE GOD .
even though many cliam to believe in GOD and in HIS CHRIST .
Many been sitting under an image , and it darn sure aint of GOD or HIS CHRIST .
IT is a twister of HIS WORDS . Sheep dont sit under it either .
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