brightfame52
Active Member
Thats who the command is to, them He gave repentance to wherever they are
"Works Salvation"
- Thread starter Seabass
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Seabass
Active Member
Heb 9:15-17 the NT would not take place until at some point AFTER Christ died. Yet both Christ and the thief were BOTH alive and under the OT law when Christ promised the thief he would be in paradise.
When Christ promised the thief he would be in paradise:
--Christ's death had not happened
--No blood had yet been shed that washes away sin in baptism.
--The thief could not be baptized into the death of Christ and then raised to walk in newness of life as required by the NT in Rom 6.
At the time Christ was on earth (Mt 9:6) he had power to forgive sins as with this thief. After Christ left earth (Acts 1) Christ's NT is now His authority on earth and it requires baptism Acts 2:38; Mk 16:16 to be saved.
I currently have a will but it does not come into effect until AFTER I die.
In Luke's account of the great commission:
24:48: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
The gospel did not begin immediately at Christ's death. Some 50 days later at Pentecost would the gospel message begin and the thief on the cross was already dead before Acts 2.
Seabass
Active Member
God commanded ALL men everywhere to repent. So if this command is a decree by God and God's decrees cannot be thwarted then why have most men who ever lived not repented? If God alone determines who can or cannot repent then who is at fault for the impenitent Rom 2:4-5?
All men does not mean a few men.
brightfame52
Active Member
Both the thief and Cornelius prove salvation is without water baptism Even the Ethiopian eunech professed Faith in the Son of God b4 he was baptized Acts 8:35-38
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Now according to Apostolic Testimony, when one confesses and believes in the Son of God, they have been born of God 1 Jn 5:1,5
Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
The Eunech was an overcome and born of God b4 a drop of water on him !
You have been deceived friend
@brightfame52 @Doug Brents @Seabass @Jim @Studyman
There is a salvation through water baptism, that the OT saints were ignorant of, and never had a chance to show forth this salvation, nor were they commanded to do so, for Jesus' faith and religion had not been revealed as it has under the NT, and which NT saints are baptized into ~ per Romans 6:2-4.
Concerning this salvation that does indeed include a practical (of true knowledge) salvation that our OT brethren did not have a chance to do is seen here:
My Baptist friends avoid this precious scripture since without question it has a conjunction that connects believing and water baptism, which cannot be denied without corrupting the scriptures, which no child of God wants to do, that truly fears God.
The last half of the scriptures "only' condemns those who "believe not", not those who have never been baptized in water for whatever reason, makes no difference, none whatsoever, again if one fears God and does not want to corrupt the word of God, which no lover of the truth desires ~ those without the fear of God do not care how they handle the holy scriptures.
Under the NT every believer is commanded to be baptized immediately upon believing, to give to God an answer of a good conscience to God concerning the gospel of His Son. This new believer is baptized into the faith and rellgion he is confessing to believe in, thereby he should not tarry if all possible do it as soon and possible, besides why tarry? This is the greatest life changing moment we shall ever experience in the flesh.
So, those who are baptized into Jesus' faith/religion, "enjoy/experienced a salvation" that all most none of the OT saints enjoy and a salvation experience that most of the world will never experience, because of no faith of coming to the knowledge of the only truth that matters in this world~Jesus Christ and him crucified, opens up a world of knowledge that few truly have insight into. We have answers to many questions and that wise of this world know nothing of, and most of them will die searching for many truths as far how we got here and what will be the end of of this, or even if there's a end, they have no clue an dneve will until they believe and are baptized into this glorious faith.
Thank you most blessed God for your great love toward us for Jesus' sake.
The whole of the word of God proves that salvation from sin and condemnation is without water baptism. Salvation from sin and condemnation is the same for all of God's elect from Genesis 3:15 to the very end of the scriptures ~salvation from sin and condemnation is through the obedience of one man, Jesus Christ the Son of the Living God, there is no other way, nor name given under heaven given whereby we must be saved in this sense.
Acts 4:12
“Neither is there salvation in any other, for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”There is a salvation through water baptism, that the OT saints were ignorant of, and never had a chance to show forth this salvation, nor were they commanded to do so, for Jesus' faith and religion had not been revealed as it has under the NT, and which NT saints are baptized into ~ per Romans 6:2-4.
Concerning this salvation that does indeed include a practical (of true knowledge) salvation that our OT brethren did not have a chance to do is seen here:
Mark 16:16
“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”My Baptist friends avoid this precious scripture since without question it has a conjunction that connects believing and water baptism, which cannot be denied without corrupting the scriptures, which no child of God wants to do, that truly fears God.
The last half of the scriptures "only' condemns those who "believe not", not those who have never been baptized in water for whatever reason, makes no difference, none whatsoever, again if one fears God and does not want to corrupt the word of God, which no lover of the truth desires ~ those without the fear of God do not care how they handle the holy scriptures.
Under the NT every believer is commanded to be baptized immediately upon believing, to give to God an answer of a good conscience to God concerning the gospel of His Son. This new believer is baptized into the faith and rellgion he is confessing to believe in, thereby he should not tarry if all possible do it as soon and possible, besides why tarry? This is the greatest life changing moment we shall ever experience in the flesh.
So, those who are baptized into Jesus' faith/religion, "enjoy/experienced a salvation" that all most none of the OT saints enjoy and a salvation experience that most of the world will never experience, because of no faith of coming to the knowledge of the only truth that matters in this world~Jesus Christ and him crucified, opens up a world of knowledge that few truly have insight into. We have answers to many questions and that wise of this world know nothing of, and most of them will die searching for many truths as far how we got here and what will be the end of of this, or even if there's a end, they have no clue an dneve will until they believe and are baptized into this glorious faith.
Thank you most blessed God for your great love toward us for Jesus' sake.
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@Red Baker, that is simply not true. God promised salvation to two different groups; the first group was composed of those living under the Old Covenant who believed in God and His promise of salvation. The forgiveness of sin was obtained through the animal sacrifices administered according to God's instructions.
The Old Covenant sacrifices (e.g., Leviticus 4:31, 5:10–16, 6:7; 16:30) provided atonement — a cleansing from guilt and restoring fellowship with God — but they could not permanently “take away” sin (Hebrews 10:4). The Hebrew word nasaʾ (translated “forgive”) means to carry away or lift up sins, but under the Old Law, God still remembered them. Yearly sacrifices (e.g., Day of Atonement) were a reminder that sin remained until the final atonement.
Moreover, the forgiveness of sin is not sufficient in and of itself a means for one to obtain eternal life in heaven. God, in His holiness, must punish sin, whether that sin is forgiven or not. The animal sacrifices could, under conditions prescribed by God, atone for the sins or the faithful, but did not in any way satisfy the need for God's punishment of sin. Hence, the role of the sacrifice of the Son of God. It provided atonement for the sins of the believer and in addition was sufficient to satisfy the need of the punishment of sin. That punishment was retroactively applied to all those OT saints whose sins had been atoned for through the animal sacrifices.
The second group promised salvation is composed of those living under the New Covenant "who has believed and has been baptized" (Mark 16:16). The sacrifice of the Son of God on the cross of Calvary was, unlike the OT animal sacrifices, sufficient as a once for all atonement for sin and for the necessary punishment for sin.
I have never seen anywhere in scripture where your concept of a practical (of true knowledge) salvation is ever stated. Knowledge is never, that I recall, presented as salvation in any sense. As James suggests, demons have knowledge of God but no salvation whatsoever. You have invented that concept to assuage a false TULIP religion.
You would trivialize the biblical association of baptism and salvation. It is universally accepted that faith is and always has been an essential condition for salvation. See John 3:16; Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8. What is important about Mark 16:16 is that faith and baptism are linked together so intimately in this context. If anything at all were going to be put into such a relationship with faith, there are other things that might at first seem more appropriate than baptism. For example, we would not have been surprised at “He who has believed and has called on the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Acts 2:21). Or, “He who has believed and has repented shall be saved” (Mark 1:15; Acts 20:21). Or, “He who has believed and has confessed Christ shall be saved” (Rom. 10:9-10). Actions such as prayer, repentance, and confession would appear to have a kind of necessary association with faith, whereas baptism seems to be a different kind of act altogether.
This is why it is so important to note the close conjunction of faith and baptism in this commission. It should cause us to re-examine our preconceptions about baptism and to realize that it is not so different from faith after all. This is borne out by other passages that bring the two together. We see that in Ephesians 4:5. Two others that should be carefully noted are Galatians 3:26-27 and Colossians 2:12.
What is the focus of the faith imposed upon us in Mark 16:16? Like all saving faith, it must be directed toward God’s promises of mercy and salvation. In this age of the New Covenant, it must be directed specifically toward Jesus Christ and His saving sacrifice on the cross. This is one reason why faith has a natural affinity with baptism, viz., because baptism in its very action symbolizes the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ (see Romans 6:3ff). God’s word of promise, which we believe, is visualized in Christian baptism, so that baptism itself becomes a kind of visualization of faith.
But there is more. Baptism not only embodies the primary objects of our faith and the promises connected therewith, but also is itself a promise: “He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved.” Thus not only is saving faith believing what God has promised to do in the actual death and resurrection of Christ (viz., atone for our sins and conquer death), but also it is believing what He has promised to do in baptism itself (viz., apply the atoning blood of Christ to us personally and raise us from spiritual death — Romans 6:3ff, Colossians 2:12). Thus we may conclude that it is most appropriate that faith and baptism be listed together as in some sense co-conditions for salvation.
So much more can be said concerning the obvious connection of baptism and salvation. I will only add here a comment about the second cllause of Mark 16:16. If baptism is a condition for salvation, why does this not read, “He who has disbelieved and has not been baptized shall be condemned”? Whatever the reason, this omission cannot legitimately be used to negate the force of the first clause. If there is not an intimate relation between baptism and salvation, then the inclusion of baptism in the statement at all is unnecessary and even misleading.
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