Marvelloustime
Active Member
@Tothalordbeallglory
“But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.”
Matthew 10:33 KJV
Women.
- Thread starter MTMattie
- Start date
“But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.”
Matthew 10:33 KJV
jeremiah1five
Active Member
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 1 Timothy 2:12–14.
In the above passage Saul says, "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve."
My understanding is that by mentioning Adam Saul is referring to marriage. In a Biblical household (and marriage) it is the man who has the responsibility to teach his family. In Hebrew culture both parents were instructed in the Law and both were taught the same things. Doctrine stems from the man/husband, and because both parents are taught the same things the wife can support Mosaic teaching that follows her husband's understanding. If a male child is born between the husband and wife, it is unreasonable that the wife remains silent and teach her son nothing. So, Saul is not saying a woman cannot teach, only that she cannot teach the man in whom doctrine comes from.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40 Let all things be done decently and in order. 1 Corinthians 14:34–40.
In these verses it is quite clear that Saul is addressing behavior of both men and women in the church. When Jews who became born-again in Jerusalem (Pentecost) returned to their homes and their synagogues it was an exciting time for Jews. Returning to their homes and synagogues Jews brought back testimony of their experience in the Holy Spirit and an outline of Peter's sermon about the Christ (Acts 2.) In the beginning all was quiet, but in time Jews heard constantly about how their Messiah, Lord, and King was crucified on a wooden cross. But they stumbled at the stumbling stone which was that under the Law it says that anyone who hung on a tree was cursed, and the Jews couldn't reconcile what happened with this Jesus and what it says in their Law. As a result, Jewish Christians were first excommunicated from the synagogue and later the Jews began to persecute the Jewish Christians which left them to gather in their homes. This is the "church" to which Saul is referring to in his letter above.
Saul was a rabbi and Pharisee, and he established the home-churches to be structured after the synagogue, with men on one side of the room and women on the other, just as it is in their synagogues (and Temple.) Because Mosaic Christianity seemed like a new "thing" it wasn't. Everything the Holy Spirit was doing in Israel among the Jews was written down in Scripture and it was a matter of God giving one the understanding of promises and prophecies and other recorded literature in their Law, Psalms, and the Prophets. Since Saul was a member of the Sanhedrin and a rabbi and Pharisee, he was uniquely qualified to search Scripture to understand the things taking place in Israel had been recorded in Scripture and prophecies. The New Covenant era was upon Israel, and it was only a matter of time when God would inspire, enlighten, and illuminate those who were Christian and had access to Scripture to make sense of the "new thing" God was doing in Israel among the Jewish people. So, if men and women were seated separately in these home churches and the Way was being taught from out of their Scripture there would be times when women may not understand immediately and "call out" to their husbands what this or that meant and disrupt the fellowship. Thus, Saul instructs wives to listen carefully and to ask their husbands at home. That is my understanding of Saul's words for women to remain silent in church. Things were to be done decently and in order.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28.
What was Jesus' last name? It doesn't say but I know "Christ" is not it. The word "Christ" derives from the Hebrew "Messias" and it means "Anointing." It can refer to "oil" or "Spirit" or both but used in conjunction with "Jesus" I prefer to receive it as Spirit "Anointing." It is a title. Jesus is the man and "Christ" is the "Spirit." You have "natural" and "spiritual." Saul in Galatians 3:28 doesn't say, "Jesus Christ," but "Christ Jesus." This informs me that he is speaking about "spiritual" matters. So, what are some of those "spiritual" matters?
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Ephesians 4:11.
Saul states these "callings" or "offices" or "ministries" are spiritual in nature. These are given out by God. To me it says that since Christ rules the spirit realm that women can be called or have the office of apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, and teacher. However, women cannot be a bishop ("episkopē" - overseer) because women cannot be the "husband of one wife." Deacons are natural ministries of service, and it is OK for women to be deacons to dispense with natural service in the church. So, if a woman is called to be a prophet this is permitted. Philip was the father of four daughters and the four were prophetesses. Women pastors to me is permitted for that would be a spiritual office. Same for the other gift-ministries. Priscilla was a woman who knew the Scripture. I'm sure many men in the church received instruction from her. Deborah was a Judge and was leader of the Hebrews at a time before the people clamored for a king like those nations that surrounded Israel. I'm sure Mary, the mother of Jesus taught her man-child as He grew up. So, that's how I see it. Women can teach men depending on the circumstance.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 1 Timothy 2:12–14.
In the above passage Saul says, "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve."
My understanding is that by mentioning Adam Saul is referring to marriage. In a Biblical household (and marriage) it is the man who has the responsibility to teach his family. In Hebrew culture both parents were instructed in the Law and both were taught the same things. Doctrine stems from the man/husband, and because both parents are taught the same things the wife can support Mosaic teaching that follows her husband's understanding. If a male child is born between the husband and wife, it is unreasonable that the wife remains silent and teach her son nothing. So, Saul is not saying a woman cannot teach, only that she cannot teach the man in whom doctrine comes from.
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40 Let all things be done decently and in order. 1 Corinthians 14:34–40.
In these verses it is quite clear that Saul is addressing behavior of both men and women in the church. When Jews who became born-again in Jerusalem (Pentecost) returned to their homes and their synagogues it was an exciting time for Jews. Returning to their homes and synagogues Jews brought back testimony of their experience in the Holy Spirit and an outline of Peter's sermon about the Christ (Acts 2.) In the beginning all was quiet, but in time Jews heard constantly about how their Messiah, Lord, and King was crucified on a wooden cross. But they stumbled at the stumbling stone which was that under the Law it says that anyone who hung on a tree was cursed, and the Jews couldn't reconcile what happened with this Jesus and what it says in their Law. As a result, Jewish Christians were first excommunicated from the synagogue and later the Jews began to persecute the Jewish Christians which left them to gather in their homes. This is the "church" to which Saul is referring to in his letter above.
Saul was a rabbi and Pharisee, and he established the home-churches to be structured after the synagogue, with men on one side of the room and women on the other, just as it is in their synagogues (and Temple.) Because Mosaic Christianity seemed like a new "thing" it wasn't. Everything the Holy Spirit was doing in Israel among the Jews was written down in Scripture and it was a matter of God giving one the understanding of promises and prophecies and other recorded literature in their Law, Psalms, and the Prophets. Since Saul was a member of the Sanhedrin and a rabbi and Pharisee, he was uniquely qualified to search Scripture to understand the things taking place in Israel had been recorded in Scripture and prophecies. The New Covenant era was upon Israel, and it was only a matter of time when God would inspire, enlighten, and illuminate those who were Christian and had access to Scripture to make sense of the "new thing" God was doing in Israel among the Jewish people. So, if men and women were seated separately in these home churches and the Way was being taught from out of their Scripture there would be times when women may not understand immediately and "call out" to their husbands what this or that meant and disrupt the fellowship. Thus, Saul instructs wives to listen carefully and to ask their husbands at home. That is my understanding of Saul's words for women to remain silent in church. Things were to be done decently and in order.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28.
What was Jesus' last name? It doesn't say but I know "Christ" is not it. The word "Christ" derives from the Hebrew "Messias" and it means "Anointing." It can refer to "oil" or "Spirit" or both but used in conjunction with "Jesus" I prefer to receive it as Spirit "Anointing." It is a title. Jesus is the man and "Christ" is the "Spirit." You have "natural" and "spiritual." Saul in Galatians 3:28 doesn't say, "Jesus Christ," but "Christ Jesus." This informs me that he is speaking about "spiritual" matters. So, what are some of those "spiritual" matters?
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Ephesians 4:11.
Saul states these "callings" or "offices" or "ministries" are spiritual in nature. These are given out by God. To me it says that since Christ rules the spirit realm that women can be called or have the office of apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, and teacher. However, women cannot be a bishop ("episkopē" - overseer) because women cannot be the "husband of one wife." Deacons are natural ministries of service, and it is OK for women to be deacons to dispense with natural service in the church. So, if a woman is called to be a prophet this is permitted. Philip was the father of four daughters and the four were prophetesses. Women pastors to me is permitted for that would be a spiritual office. Same for the other gift-ministries. Priscilla was a woman who knew the Scripture. I'm sure many men in the church received instruction from her. Deborah was a Judge and was leader of the Hebrews at a time before the people clamored for a king like those nations that surrounded Israel. I'm sure Mary, the mother of Jesus taught her man-child as He grew up. So, that's how I see it. Women can teach men depending on the circumstance.
