Why we naturally HATE penal substitution

Calvin PSA 😂

Athanasius wrote in 330 AD:

"And Psalm 22, speaking in the Saviour's own person, describes the manner of His death. Thou has brought me into the dust of death, for many dogs have compassed me, the assembly of the wicked have laid siege to me. They pierced my hands and my feet, they numbered all my bones, they gazed and stared at me, they parted my garments among them and cast lots for my vesture. They pierced my hands and my feet- what else can that mean except the cross? and Psalms 22 and 69, again speaking in the Lord's own person, tell us further that He suffered these things, not for His own sake but for ours. Thou has made Thy wrath to rest upon me, says the one; and the other adds, I paid them things I never took. For He did not die as being Himself liable to death: He suffered for us, and bore in Himself the wrath that was the penalty of our transgression, even as Isaiah says, Himself bore our weaknesses. [Mt 8:17] So in Psalm 138 we say, The Lord will make requital for me; and in the 72nd the Spirit says, He shall save the children of the poor and bring the slanderer low, for from the hand of the mighty He has set the poor man free, the needy man whom there was none to help." (A Letter of St. Athanasius to Marcellinus)

St. John Chrysostom wrote around 390 AD:

Just as when two people turn their backs on each other and do not wish to be reconciled, someone else must come to intervene and break down the enmity between them, so this is what Christ did. God was angry with us, we had turned away from God, the Master who loves mankind, and by putting Himself in between, Christ reconciled both natures. And how did he come between them? He took on Himself the punishment that we deserved from the Father and endured the disgrace and insults that we inflicted on God. Do you desire to learn how he assumed both that punishment from on high and these insults here below? It is said, Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us (Gal 3:13). See then how He received the punishment inflicted from above? Consider how He also endured the insults inflicted here below. The insults of those who insult you, He says, have fallen on me (Ps 68:10). See how he dissolved the enmity, how He did not cease to do, suffer, and painstakingly perform all things until He had brought the adversary and enemy back to God Himself and made him a friend? (Homily on the Ascension of the Lord)
 
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Up to the point at which He was empowered by the Holy Spirit at His baptism, yes.

Blaspheme. You're dishonoring Jesus Christ with your false characterizations of Him.

I am not repeating what I have heard. I am stating what Scripture says. His ministry began when He was baptized by John.

Such words from the Scriptures do not exist. Please provide proof of your false charges against Christ.

It might have started when He was at the Temple when He was 12 years old.

Double minded nonsense. Which is it? It never happened or "it might"....?

But His parents commanded Him to come home with them, so He subjected Himself to them,

No he didn't. He abandoned them and they left without Him.

Luk 2:47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
Luk 2:48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.

and delayed (potentially) His ministry until He was no longer subject to their authority. This appears to be when Joseph died and He became the head of the household. But then, all of this paragraph is supposition on my part.

I thought you were certain. I tell what I'm certain about....

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

He was certainly born the King of kings, and priest, but His work as priest did not begin until He took up that post and began His ministry. Before that, He worked with Joseph as a τέκτων (tektōn). Just as David was made king by God long before he was crowned and acknowledged as such by the people, Jesus was born King but even now is not acknowledged as such by many people.

1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Tell that nonsense to the shepherds.....

Luk 2:20 And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.
 
Tell it to Jesus:

"In fact, you bear witness that you approve the deeds of your fathers;
for they indeed killed them, and you build their tombs (Lk. 11:48 NKJ)


I'm tired of all these Bahai tombs around here.

He has me on ignore. We don't get along. I don't "approve his deeds".

I've left him with a warning. That is all that is left between us to say.
 
Athanasius wrote in 330 AD:

"And Psalm 22, speaking in the Saviour's own person, describes the manner of His death. Thou has brought me into the dust of death, for many dogs have compassed me, the assembly of the wicked have laid siege to me. They pierced my hands and my feet, they numbered all my bones, they gazed and stared at me, they parted my garments among them and cast lots for my vesture. They pierced my hands and my feet- what else can that mean except the cross? and Psalms 22 and 69, again speaking in the Lord's own person, tell us further that He suffered these things, not for His own sake but for ours. Thou has made Thy wrath to rest upon me, says the one; and the other adds, I paid them things I never took. For He did not die as being Himself liable to death: He suffered for us, and bore in Himself the wrath that was the penalty of our transgression, even as Isaiah says, Himself bore our weaknesses. [Mt 8:17] So in Psalm 138 we say, The Lord will make requital for me; and in the 72nd the Spirit says, He shall save the children of the poor and bring the slanderer low, for from the hand of the mighty He has set the poor man free, the needy man whom there was none to help." (On the Incarnation)

St. John Chrysostom wrote around 390 AD:

Just as when two people turn their backs on each other and do not wish to be reconciled, someone else must come to intervene and break down the enmity between them, so this is what Christ did. God was angry with us, we had turned away from God, the Master who loves mankind, and by putting Himself in between, Christ reconciled both natures. And how did he come between them? He took on Himself the punishment that we deserved from the Father and endured the disgrace and insults that we inflicted on God. Do you desire to learn how he assumed both that punishment from on high and these insults here below? It is said, Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us (Gal 3:13). See then how He received the punishment inflicted from above? Consider how He also endured the insults inflicted here below. The insults of those who insult you, He says, have fallen on me (Ps 68:10). See how he dissolved the enmity, how He did not cease to do, suffer, and painstakingly perform all things until He had brought the adversary and enemy back to God Himself and made him a friend? (Homily on the Ascension of the Lord)

So you're serious trying to regress the teaching of PSA into the 4th century?

Where do those words come from? Care to share the extant manuscript that you're quoting Athanasius from?
 
So you're serious trying to regress the teaching of PSA into the 4th century?

Where do those words come from? Care to share the extant manuscript that you're quoting Athanasius from?

I'm not "trying" to do anything.

He literally said it.

I'll give you the full reference and the Greek text as well:

Athanasius, On the Incarnation, trans. and ed. A Religious of C.S.M.V. (Crestwood: St Vladimir’s Seminary Press, 1996), to which is appended a Letter of St. Athanasius to Marcellinus on the Interpretation of the Psalms, pp. 100-101; Cf. also the translation provided in Athanasius, The Life of Anthony and The Letter to Marcellinus, trans. Robert C. Gregg (New York: Paulist Press, 1980), p. 105.

Greek text: ἐν δὲ τῷ εἰκοστῷ καὶ πρώτῳ τὴν ποιότητα τοῦ θανάτου ἐκ προσώπου τοῦ Σωτῆρός φησιν· Εἰς χοῦν θανάτου κατήγαγές με· ὅτι ἐκύκλωσάν με κύνες πολλοὶ, συναγωγὴ πονηρευομένων περιέσχον με. Ὤρυξαν χεῖράς μου καὶ πόδας μου, ἐξηρίθμησαν πάντα τὰ ὀστᾶ μου. Αὐτοὶ δὲ κατενόησαν, καὶ ἐπεῖδόν με· διεμερίσαντο τὰ ἱμάτιά μου ἑαυτοῖς, καὶ ἐπὶ τὸν ἱματισμόν μου ἔβαλον κλῆρον. Τὸ δὲ τὰς χεῖρας καὶ τοὺς πόδας ὀρύττεσθαι, τί ἕτερον ἢ σταυρὸν λέγων σημαίνει; Πάντα ταῦτα διδάσκουσα προστίθησιν, ὅτι μὴ δι' ἑαυτὸν, διʼ ἡμᾶς δὲ ταῦτα πάσχει ὁ Κύριος. Καί φησιν ἐκ προσώπου πάλιν αὐτοῦ ἐν μὲν τῷ πζʹ· Ἐπʼ ἐμὲ ἐπεστηρίχθη ὁ θυμός σου· ἐν δὲ τῷ ἑξηκοστῷ ὀγδόῳ· Ἃ οὐχ ἥρπασα, τότε ἀπετίννυον. Οὐ γὰρ ὑπεύθυνος ὢν ἀπέθνησκεν, ἀλλʼ ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἔπασχε, καὶ τὸν καθʼ ἡμῶν θυμὸν διὰ τὴν παράβασιν ἐφʼ ἑαυτὸν ἐβάσταζε, λέγοντα διὰ τοῦ Ἡσαΐου· Αὐτὸς τὰς ἀσθενείας ἡμῶν ἔλαβε· καὶ λεγόντων μὲν ἡμῶν ἐν τῷ ἑκατοστῷ τριακοστῷ ἑβδόμῳ ψαλμῷ· Κύριος ἀντ αποδώσει ὑπὲρ ἐμοῦ· λέγοντος δὲ καὶ τοῦ Πνεύματος ἐν ἑβδομηκοστῷ πρώτῳ· Καὶ σώσει τοὺς υἱοὺς τῶν πενήτων, καὶ ταπεινώσει συκοφάντην, ὅτι ἐῤῥύσατο, πτωχὸν ἐκ χειρὸς δυνάστου, καὶ πένητα, ᾧ οὐχ ὑπῆρχε βοηθός.
 
I don't expect all the liars and those spreading their lies to apologize anytime soon.

Many have doubled down in their deception, it's saddening.
 
I'm not "trying" to do anything.

He literally said it.

I'll give you the full reference and the Greek text as well:

Athanasius, On the Incarnation, trans. and ed. A Religious of C.S.M.V. (Crestwood: St Vladimir’s Seminary Press, 1996), to which is appended a Letter of St. Athanasius to Marcellinus on the Interpretation of the Psalms, pp. 100-101; Cf. also the translation provided in Athanasius, The Life of Anthony and The Letter to Marcellinus, trans. Robert C. Gregg (New York: Paulist Press, 1980), p. 105.

Greek text: ἐν δὲ τῷ εἰκοστῷ καὶ πρώτῳ τὴν ποιότητα τοῦ θανάτου ἐκ προσώπου τοῦ Σωτῆρός φησιν· Εἰς χοῦν θανάτου κατήγαγές με· ὅτι ἐκύκλωσάν με κύνες πολλοὶ, συναγωγὴ πονηρευομένων περιέσχον με. Ὤρυξαν χεῖράς μου καὶ πόδας μου, ἐξηρίθμησαν πάντα τὰ ὀστᾶ μου. Αὐτοὶ δὲ κατενόησαν, καὶ ἐπεῖδόν με· διεμερίσαντο τὰ ἱμάτιά μου ἑαυτοῖς, καὶ ἐπὶ τὸν ἱματισμόν μου ἔβαλον κλῆρον. Τὸ δὲ τὰς χεῖρας καὶ τοὺς πόδας ὀρύττεσθαι, τί ἕτερον ἢ σταυρὸν λέγων σημαίνει; Πάντα ταῦτα διδάσκουσα προστίθησιν, ὅτι μὴ δι' ἑαυτὸν, διʼ ἡμᾶς δὲ ταῦτα πάσχει ὁ Κύριος. Καί φησιν ἐκ προσώπου πάλιν αὐτοῦ ἐν μὲν τῷ πζʹ· Ἐπʼ ἐμὲ ἐπεστηρίχθη ὁ θυμός σου· ἐν δὲ τῷ ἑξηκοστῷ ὀγδόῳ· Ἃ οὐχ ἥρπασα, τότε ἀπετίννυον. Οὐ γὰρ ὑπεύθυνος ὢν ἀπέθνησκεν, ἀλλʼ ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἔπασχε, καὶ τὸν καθʼ ἡμῶν θυμὸν διὰ τὴν παράβασιν ἐφʼ ἑαυτὸν ἐβάσταζε, λέγοντα διὰ τοῦ Ἡσαΐου· Αὐτὸς τὰς ἀσθενείας ἡμῶν ἔλαβε· καὶ λεγόντων μὲν ἡμῶν ἐν τῷ ἑκατοστῷ τριακοστῷ ἑβδόμῳ ψαλμῷ· Κύριος ἀντ αποδώσει ὑπὲρ ἐμοῦ· λέγοντος δὲ καὶ τοῦ Πνεύματος ἐν ἑβδομηκοστῷ πρώτῳ· Καὶ σώσει τοὺς υἱοὺς τῶν πενήτων, καὶ ταπεινώσει συκοφάντην, ὅτι ἐῤῥύσατο, πτωχὸν ἐκ χειρὸς δυνάστου, καὶ πένητα, ᾧ οὐχ ὑπῆρχε βοηθός.

Nothing you provided is from the 4th century. Are you claiming inspiration and preservation from some magical source manuscript?

It amazes me when people do what you just did without any thought of verification.

People don't mind lying at all anymore. Either that or fabricating conclusions from the "flimsiest" of sources.

No need to laugh. Be scholarly in your work.........

Any evidence in the NT for your claims?
 
I'm not "trying" to do anything.

He literally said it.

I'll give you the full reference and the Greek text as well:

Athanasius, On the Incarnation, trans. and ed. A Religious of C.S.M.V. (Crestwood: St Vladimir’s Seminary Press, 1996), to which is appended a Letter of St. Athanasius to Marcellinus on the Interpretation of the Psalms, pp. 100-101; Cf. also the translation provided in Athanasius, The Life of Anthony and The Letter to Marcellinus, trans. Robert C. Gregg (New York: Paulist Press, 1980), p. 105.

Greek text: ἐν δὲ τῷ εἰκοστῷ καὶ πρώτῳ τὴν ποιότητα τοῦ θανάτου ἐκ προσώπου τοῦ Σωτῆρός φησιν· Εἰς χοῦν θανάτου κατήγαγές με· ὅτι ἐκύκλωσάν με κύνες πολλοὶ, συναγωγὴ πονηρευομένων περιέσχον με. Ὤρυξαν χεῖράς μου καὶ πόδας μου, ἐξηρίθμησαν πάντα τὰ ὀστᾶ μου. Αὐτοὶ δὲ κατενόησαν, καὶ ἐπεῖδόν με· διεμερίσαντο τὰ ἱμάτιά μου ἑαυτοῖς, καὶ ἐπὶ τὸν ἱματισμόν μου ἔβαλον κλῆρον. Τὸ δὲ τὰς χεῖρας καὶ τοὺς πόδας ὀρύττεσθαι, τί ἕτερον ἢ σταυρὸν λέγων σημαίνει; Πάντα ταῦτα διδάσκουσα προστίθησιν, ὅτι μὴ δι' ἑαυτὸν, διʼ ἡμᾶς δὲ ταῦτα πάσχει ὁ Κύριος. Καί φησιν ἐκ προσώπου πάλιν αὐτοῦ ἐν μὲν τῷ πζʹ· Ἐπʼ ἐμὲ ἐπεστηρίχθη ὁ θυμός σου· ἐν δὲ τῷ ἑξηκοστῷ ὀγδόῳ· Ἃ οὐχ ἥρπασα, τότε ἀπετίννυον. Οὐ γὰρ ὑπεύθυνος ὢν ἀπέθνησκεν, ἀλλʼ ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν ἔπασχε, καὶ τὸν καθʼ ἡμῶν θυμὸν διὰ τὴν παράβασιν ἐφʼ ἑαυτὸν ἐβάσταζε, λέγοντα διὰ τοῦ Ἡσαΐου· Αὐτὸς τὰς ἀσθενείας ἡμῶν ἔλαβε· καὶ λεγόντων μὲν ἡμῶν ἐν τῷ ἑκατοστῷ τριακοστῷ ἑβδόμῳ ψαλμῷ· Κύριος ἀντ αποδώσει ὑπὲρ ἐμοῦ· λέγοντος δὲ καὶ τοῦ Πνεύματος ἐν ἑβδομηκοστῷ πρώτῳ· Καὶ σώσει τοὺς υἱοὺς τῶν πενήτων, καὶ ταπεινώσει συκοφάντην, ὅτι ἐῤῥύσατο, πτωχὸν ἐκ χειρὸς δυνάστου, καὶ πένητα, ᾧ οὐχ ὑπῆρχε βοηθός.

BTW.... since you seek the damnation of Christ "in your place".....

Did Christ feel the literal flames of hell for you?
 
Blaspheme. You're dishonoring Jesus Christ with your false characterizations of Him.
Nope, no blasphemy intended or actual. If Jesus had supernatural wisdom, strength, stature, or interpersonal skills as an infant, He couldn't/wouldn't have GROWN in them. Yet we are told that He did grow in all these things.
Such words from the Scriptures do not exist. Please provide proof of your false charges against Christ.
Matt 4:17
Luke 3:23, 4:14-15
Double minded nonsense. Which is it? It never happened or "it might"....?
Read the intent of the context of my statement. Jesus could have started His ministry, and been baptized by John, etc., when He was 12. But Mary and Joseph forbade Him to stay in the Temple, instructing Him to return home with them. He, still being subject to His parent's authority, was thus compelled to start His ministry only when He was no longer subject to this injunction.
No he didn't. He abandoned them and they left without Him.

Luk 2:47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
Luk 2:48 And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing.
He did indeed stay behind for a while. But when Mary and Joseph found Him, they instructed Him to return home with them.
I thought you were certain. I tell what I'm certain about....

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
I am certain of that as well. But as I made clear, it is only supposition that He could have started His ministry when He was 12. But clearly that was not "the fullness of time", because He did not start His ministry then. He started it when He was 30, as Luke 3:23 tells us.
1Pe 1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Tell that nonsense to the shepherds.....

Luk 2:20 And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.
What nonsense? I have spoken/written no nonsense. He was/is King of kings, and Lord of lords. Yet He did not start His ministry until He was 30, and His ministry lasted only 3 and a half years. Then the Apostles took over, spreading the Gospel to the ends of the Earth, passing their ministry (although not their title or some of their authority) on to successive generations down you us who are in the Church today.
 
Thats not the question James asked

He asked “If someone claimed to have faith. And does not have works. Can THEY faith save them

I guess in your view. Yes, it can


Yet here we are with the same argument


See. You did the very thing you keep doing

Your trying to make James 2 contradict Pauls letters..

Yet here you are defending a grace plus works justification.

lol. I offered it many times.

But hey

I gave these verses to @GodsGrace she would not respond. Maybe you will?

Show me works in any of these gospel passages.

then paul is a liar
Jesus is a liar

I might as well throw my bible out. I can nto trust it.

John 1: 12. But AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED HIM, to THEM he gave the right to become children, even TO THEM WHO BELIEVE (no works)

John 3, FOR God so loved the world he gave his only son that WHOEVER BELIEVES (trusts) in him will NEVER PERISH, and LIVE FOREVER (eternal life) for the son was not sent to judge, but that the world might be saved, he who BELIEVES is NOT CONDEMNED, he who does not believe is condemned already (no works)

John 4: 13 Jesus answered and said to her, “Whoever drinks of this water will thirst again, 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will NEVER THIRST. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into EVERLASTING LIFE” (no works)

John 5: 24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he whoever HEARS MY WORD and BELIEVES IN HIM WHO SENT ME who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE and SHALL NOT COME INTO JUDGMENT but HAS PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE (No works)

John 6: 35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. HE WHO COMES TO ME shall NEVER HUNGER and he who BELIEVES IN ME shall NEVER THIRST (NO WORKS)

John 6: 37: and THE ONE WHO COMES TO ME I WILL BY NO MEANS CAST OUT 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, thatof all He has given Me I SHAL LOSE NOTHING, but SHOULD RAISE IT UP ON THE LAST DAY. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that EVERYONE WHO SEES AND BELIEVES IN HIM MAY HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE AND I WILL (NOT MIGHT) RAISE HIM ON THE LAST DAY (NO WORKS)

John 6: 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, HE WHO BELIEVES IN ME HAS EVERLASTING LIFE. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that THAT ONE MAY EAT OF IT AND NOT DIE 51 am the living bread which came down from heaven. IF ANYONE EATS THIS BREAD HE WILL LIVE FOREVER (NO WORKS)

John 6: 63 It is the SPIRIT WHO GIVES LIFE ; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS THAT I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT AND THEY ARE LIFE (SIGNIFYING THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN, THE FLESH AND BOOD ARE THE WORDS JESUS SPOKE. NOT THE PHYSICAL FOOD OR WORKS,)

EPH 1: 13 In Him YOU ALSO TRUSTED , after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also ,HAVING BELIEVED YOU WERE SEALED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT OF PROMISE 14 who IS THE GAURANTEE OF OUR INHERITANCE until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

THE INHERITANCE HE SAID WE ALREADY HAD IN THE 1ST 12 VERSES. (AGAIN, NO WORKS)

eph 2: 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses,MADE US ALIVE together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and RAISED US UP TOGETHER , and MADE US SIT TOGETHER IN HEAVENLY PLACES 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For BY GRACE YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED (A COMPLETED ACTION) THROUGH FAITH , (AS MANY AS HAVE RECIEVED) and that NOT OF YOURSELVES ; it IS THE GIFT OF GOD, 9 NOT OF WORKS LEST ANYONE SHOULD BOAST (NO WORKS)

rom 4: 3 For what does the Scripture say? “ABRAHAM BELIEVED GOD AND HE ACOUNTED IT TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.” 4 Now TO HIM WHO WORKS, THE WAGES ARE NOT COUNTED AS GRACE BUT DEBT (Works cancels out grace. and makes it a wage) 5 But TO HIM WHO DOES NOT WORK but BELIEVES ON HIM WHO JUSTIFIES THE UNGOLDY , his HIS FAITH IS ACCOUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS (AGAIN NO WORKS. PERIOD)

rom 4: 16 Therefore IT IF OF FAITH THAT IT MAY BE ACCORDING TO GRACE , so that THE PROMISE MAY BE SURE TO ALL THE SEED not only to those who are of the law, but also TO THOSE WHO ARE OF THE FAITH OF ABRAHAM , who is the father of us all (AGAIN, NO WORKS, IT IS OF GRACE THROUGH FAITH)

Rom 4: 23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but ALSO FOR US, IT SHALL BE IMPUTED TO US WHO BELIEVE IN HIM WHO RAISED UP JESUS OUR LORD FROM THE DEAD , 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was RAISED BECAUSE OF OUR JUSTIFICATION (AGAIN NO WORKS)

Rom 11: 6 And IF BY GRACE, THAN IT IS NO LONGER OF WORKS, ; otherwise GRACE IS NO LONGER GRACE.But IF IT IS OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO LONGER OF GRACE. OTHERWISE WORK IS NO LONGER WORK (AS i HAVE SAID NUMEROUS TIME, GRACE + WORKS = WORKS.. GRACE AND WORKS CAN NOT MIX IN THE AREA OF SALVATION. ITS LIKE MIXING OIL AND WATER)

2 Tim 1: 9 who HAS SAVED US (A COMPLETED ACTION) and called us with a holy calling, NOT ACCORDING TO OUR WORKS , but ACCORDING TO HIS OWN PURPOSE AND GRACE which was GIVEN TO US in Christ Jesus BEFORE TIME BEGAN (AGAIN, NO WORKS. BUT GRACE)

Titus 3: 4 But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, 5 NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (GOOD DEEDS) WHICH WE HAVE DONE , but ACCORDING TO HIS MERCY HE SAVED USthrough the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 that HAVING BEEN JUSTIFIED BY HIS GRACE we should become HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE
(AGAIN, NO QUESTION HERE. PAUL LEAVES NO QUESTION. NO GOOD DEED CAN SAVE US,. WE ARE SAVED BY GODS MERCY, AND GIVEN THE HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE. WHICH IS PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN


Titus 1: 2
in HOPE OF ETERNAL LIFE which GOD WHO CAN NOT LIE PROMISED BEFORE TIME BEGAN

this is what our faith is in, the grace and mercy of God. not our deeds.

I am not rewriting, I am forcing the word to form my belief system, not using my belief system to interpret the word.

THE FAITH points back to the faith. THEM are those who claimed to have faith.

Not the rest of the world.

No,Paul is talking about good works..
OK EG.....
Let's play verse ping pong....sorry been too busy.

YOU posted verses on believing and that believing is all we need.

Now I'LL post verses speaking about how we're to do good works.

THEN you can explain WHY there are so many verses on doing good works IF
all we need is faith.


Matthew 5:16

In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:10

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

James 2:14-17

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

James 2:26

For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Colossians 3:23-24

Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.

Hebrews 13:16

Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

James 2:18

But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Galatians 6:9

And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

John 6:28-29

Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

James 4:17

So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

Titus 2:14

Who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

1 Timothy 6:17-19

As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.

1 Corinthians 16:14

Let all that you do be done in love.

Hebrews 6:10

For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do.

Romans 2:6-10

He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek.

2 Corinthians 5:10

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

Matthew 7:21-23

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Titus 1:16

They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

Proverbs 3:27-28

Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to do it. Do not say to your neighbor, “Go, and come again, tomorrow I will give it”—when you have it with you.

2 Timothy 3:17

That the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Titus 3:8

The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people.

Hebrews 10:24

And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,

Titus 2:7

Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity,

John 14:15

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

Ephesians 2:8

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

1 Corinthians 15:58

Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Psalm 37:3

Trust in the Lord, and do good; dwell in the land and befriend faithfulness.

Titus 3:1

Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

Matthew 25:31-46

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, ...

John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Colossians 3:23

Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,

James 3:13

Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom.

James 2:14-26

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. ...

Genesis 2:15

The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it.

2 Corinthians 9:8

And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work.

Galatians 2:16

Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Romans 3:28

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Acts 10:38

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.

Psalm 90:17

Let the favor of the Lord our God be upon us, and establish the work of our hands upon us; yes, establish the work of our hands!

Proverbs 14:23

In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to poverty.

Philippians 2:13

For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Titus 3:14

And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful.

 
@Eternally-Grateful

part II
verses on good works


James 1:27

Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

Romans 12:1

I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

Isaiah 64:6

We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

Titus 3:5

He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Philippians 4:13

I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

Proverbs 12:11

Whoever works his land will have plenty of bread, but he who follows worthless pursuits lacks sense.

Proverbs 3:27

Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to do it.

James 2:8

If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

Romans 3:20

For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Acts 2:38

And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 3:23

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 8:28

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Psalm 37:3-4

Trust in the Lord, and do good; dwell in the land and befriend faithfulness. Delight yourself in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart.

James 2:14

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

Galatians 5:16

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Romans 14:12

So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

Romans 9:32

Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,

Jeremiah 29:11

For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.

Psalm 37:27

Turn away from evil and do good; so shall you dwell forever.

Romans 11:6

But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

1 Timothy 5:8

But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Proverbs 12:24

The hand of the diligent will rule, while the slothful will be put to forced labor.

John 5:17

But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”

Revelation 20:11-15

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

James 2:17

So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Luke 10:27

And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.”

Matthew 5:48

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

1 Peter 3:13-17

Now who is there to harm you if you are zealous for what is good? But even if you should suffer for righteousness' sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled, but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame. For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that should be God's will, than for doing evil.

James 2:24

You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

2 Timothy 2:21

Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work.

John 3:19-21

And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

Proverbs 16:3

Commit your work to the Lord, and your plans will be established.

2 Timothy 1:9

Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Jeremiah 17:10

“I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”

Hebrews 10:26-31

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” ...

Hebrews 11:6

And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Philippians 2:12-13

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Galatians 5:14

For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

2 Thessalonians 3:13

As for you, brothers, do not grow weary in doing good.

Colossians 3:17

And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

John 15:5

I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

Luke 9:23

And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.

Mark 12:31

The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

2 Timothy 3:16-17

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Galatians 2:20

I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Acts 10:2

A devout man who feared God with all his household, gave alms generously to the people, and prayed continually to God.

Luke 12:47-48

And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

John 3:16-17

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Matthew 5:9

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Ecclesiastes 3:12

I perceived that there is nothing better for them than to be joyful and to do good as long as they live;

2 Peter 3:18

But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

1 Timothy 2:1-15

First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, ...

Romans 5:1

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Mark 16:16

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Luke 18:10-14

“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”


source: openbible.info
 
Had god breathed the "breath of life" to you yet?

or does that happen at birth?
Well EG....
then I guess abortion is OK.

After all, its not a human yet and God hasn't breathed life into the fetus yet...
even though its breathing and eating.

Oh. And it sounds like you don't even think the baby has life until birth.

Very confusing indeed.
 
OK EG.....
Let's play verse ping pong....sorry been too busy.

YOU posted verses on believing and that believing is all we need.

Now I'LL post verses speaking about how we're to do good works.

THEN you can explain WHY there are so many verses on doing good works IF
all we need is faith.


Matthew 5:16

In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:10

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

James 2:14-17

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Ephesians 2:8-9

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

James 2:26

For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead.

Colossians 3:23-24

Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward. You are serving the Lord Christ.

Hebrews 13:16

Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

James 2:18

But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

Galatians 6:9

And let us not grow weary of doing good, for in due season we will reap, if we do not give up.

John 6:28-29

Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.”

James 4:17

So whoever knows the right thing to do and fails to do it, for him it is sin.

Titus 2:14

Who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.

1 Timothy 6:17-19

As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.

1 Corinthians 16:14

Let all that you do be done in love.

Hebrews 6:10

For God is not unjust so as to overlook your work and the love that you have shown for his name in serving the saints, as you still do.

Romans 2:6-10

He will render to each one according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek.

2 Corinthians 5:10

For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil.

Matthew 7:21-23

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Titus 1:16

They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

Proverbs 3:27-28

Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to do it. Do not say to your neighbor, “Go, and come again, tomorrow I will give it”—when you have it with you.

2 Timothy 3:17

That the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Titus 3:8

The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people.

Hebrews 10:24

And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works,

Titus 2:7

Show yourself in all respects to be a model of good works, and in your teaching show integrity, dignity,

John 14:15

“If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

Ephesians 2:8

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,

1 Corinthians 15:58

Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Psalm 37:3

Trust in the Lord, and do good; dwell in the land and befriend faithfulness.

Titus 3:1

Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work,

Matthew 25:31-46

“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, ...

John 3:16

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Colossians 3:23

Whatever you do, work heartily, as for the Lord and not for men,

James 3:13

Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom.

James 2:14-26

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. ...

Genesis 2:15

The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it.

2 Corinthians 9:8

And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that having all sufficiency in all things at all times, you may abound in every good work.

Galatians 2:16

Yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

Romans 3:28

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.

Acts 10:38

How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.

Psalm 90:17

Let the favor of the Lord our God be upon us, and establish the work of our hands upon us; yes, establish the work of our hands!

Proverbs 14:23

In all toil there is profit, but mere talk tends only to poverty.

Philippians 2:13

For it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Titus 3:14

And let our people learn to devote themselves to good works, so as to help cases of urgent need, and not be unfruitful.

Ok.

Now resolve the discrepency

Why would jesus tell people in the verses I gave they only needed to trust Jesus

Then contradict himself in the verses you post and say works are required.

It can not be both ways
 
@Eternally-Grateful

part II
verses on good works


James 1:27

Religion that is pure and undefiled before God the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

Romans 12:1

I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.

Isaiah 64:6

We have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a polluted garment. We all fade like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

Titus 3:5

He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Philippians 4:13

I can do all things through him who strengthens me.

Proverbs 12:11

Whoever works his land will have plenty of bread, but he who follows worthless pursuits lacks sense.

Proverbs 3:27

Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to do it.

James 2:8

If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well.

Romans 3:20

For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Acts 2:38

And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Romans 3:23

For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Romans 8:28

And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

Psalm 37:3-4

Trust in the Lord, and do good; dwell in the land and befriend faithfulness. Delight yourself in the Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart.

James 2:14

What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

Galatians 5:16

But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.

Romans 14:12

So then each of us will give an account of himself to God.

Romans 9:32

Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works. They have stumbled over the stumbling stone,

Jeremiah 29:11

For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope.

Psalm 37:27

Turn away from evil and do good; so shall you dwell forever.

Romans 11:6

But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

1 Timothy 5:8

But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

Proverbs 12:24

The hand of the diligent will rule, while the slothful will be put to forced labor.

John 5:17

But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working until now, and I am working.”

Revelation 20:11-15

Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done. And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

James 2:17

So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

Luke 10:27

And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.”

Matthew 5:48

You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

1 Peter 3:13-17

Now who is there to harm you if you are zealous for what is good? But even if you should suffer for righteousness' sake, you will be blessed. Have no fear of them, nor be troubled, but in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame. For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that should be God's will, than for doing evil.

James 2:24

You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

2 Timothy 2:21

Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work.

John 3:19-21

And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

Proverbs 16:3

Commit your work to the Lord, and your plans will be established.

2 Timothy 1:9

Who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

2 Corinthians 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

Jeremiah 17:10

“I the Lord search the heart and test the mind, to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his deeds.”

Hebrews 10:26-31

For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” ...

Hebrews 11:6

And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.

Philippians 2:12-13

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.

Galatians 5:14

For the whole law is fulfilled in one word: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

2 Thessalonians 3:13

As for you, brothers, do not grow weary in doing good.

Colossians 3:17

And whatever you do, in word or deed, do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.

John 15:5

I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.

Luke 9:23

And he said to all, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me.

Mark 12:31

The second is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

2 Timothy 3:16-17

All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

Galatians 2:20

I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Acts 10:2

A devout man who feared God with all his household, gave alms generously to the people, and prayed continually to God.

Luke 12:47-48

And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

John 3:16-17

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.

Matthew 5:9

“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.

Ecclesiastes 3:12

I perceived that there is nothing better for them than to be joyful and to do good as long as they live;

2 Peter 3:18

But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

1 Timothy 2:1-15

First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, ...

Romans 5:1

Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Mark 16:16

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Luke 18:10-14

“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee, standing by himself, prayed thus: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’ I tell you, this man went down to his house justified, rather than the other. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”


source: openbible.info
You have not responded to the verses I posted. You posting a bunch of verses does not solve the contradiction.

Most of these verses you gave I already shows you how you are taking them out of context. Yet you have failed to even respond to any of the verses i gave.
 
Well EG....
then I guess abortion is OK.
No

Abortion says God is not have the right to give that kid life.

My wife had three miscarriages.. did she kill those babies?
After all, its not a human yet and God hasn't breathed life into the fetus yet...
even though its breathing and eating.

Oh. And it sounds like you don't even think the baby has life until birth.

Very confusing indeed.
lol. Whats confusing is you trying to rationalize something and not thinking it through
 
@GodsGrace I have given you the courtesy numerous times of responding to many verses you have given and giving a different view.

When you are ready to do this with all the verses I gave, maybe we can start to have a discussion

Running away from those verses do not help

And you taking all these verses out of context will not help you either. I can not interpret them the way you do. Because if I do I insert a major contradiction to the word of God

I refuse to do that

Here I will help you

I gave eph 2: 8-9 that shows we are saved ( a completed action) By grace..and that this grace is applied through faith, and not of ourselves it is the gift of God. Not of works lest anyone should boast.

You gave eph 2: 10 for we are his workmanship created in christ jesus for good works..

Now. Paul is not an author of confusion.He did not say we are saved ( a completed action) by grace and not work, then contradict himself and say we must do works to be saved.

You must resolve that contradiction.

Or I will continue to interpret as written

We are saved by Grace (a completed action) through faith (God will nto force it on ue) and not of ourselves it (salvation) is the gift of God, not of works lest we should boast

For we (those saved already) are his workmanship. Created in christ Jesus for good works. That we should walk in them, because we are saved, not to get saved.

Which fits 100% into my belief system
 
and I have posted tens of verses that do not require words.

which puts the bible at odds with itself.

it is absent of good works.. because good works are not required to recieve what those verses are offering through the grace of God.

they are the result of receiving what is offered.

you posted many on works. I posted many on no belief

so how do you reconcile these passages

I have shown you numerous times how I reconcile them, can you show me how you reconcile them. because I can not see it
Here's how to reconcile them.

In order to attain heaven, both faith AND good works are necessary.

Necessary.

God does not work alone.
He needs the cooperation of man.

Man does not work alone.
He needs the coooperation of God.

The lost, as I've said many many times,,,,are not required to obey God.
The saved are required to obey §God.

How do we obey §God?
By doing what Jesus commanded.

Can we agree that Jesus agreed that we are TO DO some things....
or did he say to just believe and He'll handle the rest?

Faith without works is DEAD.
Faith without works is USELESS.

Some believe that we can be justified by faith ALONE....
without the need for good works or commandment keeping.
THIS is not the Christianity that Jesus began.

Scripture teaches that we are to:
SEEK
REPENT
BELIEVE
OBEY


Your theology leads to:

1. Works are filthy rags.
2. Undermining of Christian values.
3. Belief and not behvior rules.
4. Hypocrisy.
5. God is not authoritative.
6. No need to ask for forgiveness.


Justification - Sanctification
Grace - Works
Faith - Obedience
cannot be separated.
 
No

Abortion says God is not have the right to give that kid life.

My wife had three miscarriages.. did she kill those babies?

lol. Whats confusing is you trying to rationalize something and not thinking it through
Why did you call them babies?
They weren't human yet according to you and they didn't have life yet according to you.

And please don't tell me I don't think things through.

A HUMAN person begins at conception.
What is concieved, if given the chance, is becoming a human and is human from the beginning.

It's not a fly, it's not a pig, it's not a flower...
it's a human being.

§Do you think it's like a manufacturing line?
A baby is being made...
souls are being made...

Baby is born....
Get one soul, please.
And there ya go.



I hope you realize that a pro-abortion argument is that the fetus does not have a soul.
 
Ok.

Now resolve the discrepency

Why would jesus tell people in the verses I gave they only needed to trust Jesus

Then contradict himself in the verses you post and say works are required.

It can not be both ways
(I can't go through each of your verses.
Jesus NEVER said to ONLY trust Him.

He taugth for over 3 years and what he taught was written down.

It would have taken only a few teachings and very little time to teach FAITH ONLY.

Jesus taught that we are to obey §God and DO good works.
 
(I can't go through each of your verses.
Jesus NEVER said to ONLY trust Him.
You mean you refuse to go through all my verses?

God said in every one of those verses to trust him only
He taugth for over 3 years and what he taught was written down.

It would have taken only a few teachings and very little time to teach FAITH ONLY.

Jesus taught that we are to obey §God and DO good works.
All the verses I gave said faith and nothing else

If you refuse to go through them and show me where I am wrong. Then we are done.. You can live in your shame.
 
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