Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
yes persons are in the womb
but the soul has not yet been given
God breathed the breath of life.. that is the moment Adam became a living soul. and the moment every member of the human race becomes a living soul.
Why we naturally HATE penal substitution
- Thread starter Dizerner
- Start date
but the soul has not yet been given
God breathed the breath of life.. that is the moment Adam became a living soul. and the moment every member of the human race becomes a living soul.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
You keep repeating that nonsense without evidence......
You didn't experience God's own breath like Adam and Eve. Prove it. That is nothing but a false damnable lie that seeks to comfort those who take the life of a individual in the womb.....
Why are you repeating such evil things?
Adam and Eve weren't "born".....
Doug Brents
Active Member
Matt 12:28
Acts 10:38
Luke 4:14
Jesus did not do anything supernaturally, or know anything supernaturally, by His own power. What He did, and what He knew was given to Him by the Holy Spirit. And this began after His baptism by John at Jordan, when the Spirit came upon Him.
Please do list some of the things He did that only He could do. I don't see anything He did that the Apostles didn't do except for accepting worship (which is only for God).
praise_yeshua
Active Member
By your own measure, you're limiting what Christ did before His baptism. Christ was profoundly powerful even in the womb. Knowledge is power. Christ hasn't forgotten anything.
I already have listed one in my comments. Jesus was transfigured....
How about we start with this? The disciples that witnessed the event got so "tore up" over it they said some silly things....
Got to "love" how "transgenderism" is getting all the attention to the point the transfiguration is forgotten.....
Doug Brents
Active Member
Christ didn't know when He was coming back. And we don't have any record of anything supernatural that Jesus did before His baptism.
That is not something He did on His own. He WAS transfigured (by the Holy Spirit), not He transfigured Himself.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
I mentioned supernatural wisdom.
Nothing in the text even implies such.
Are you capable of such things "through the Spirit"?
Doug Brents
Active Member
I don't see where you mention supernatural wisdom. But even so, He did not demonstrate any before His baptism.
I am capable of all things through the Spirit (although I do not believe that He works miracles through man today), but He was transfigured to show His deity. I am not deity, so if I were transfigured nothing about me would change; I have as much glory now as I will ever have in this world.
But, I am capable of NOTHING supernatural without Him.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
So you've forgotten about the events of Luke chapter 2?
Agreed. You are not Christ. You're different than Christ though you have the same Spirit.
A core teaching of the Holy Trinity is the concept of "Co-power". I know people that believe in baptismal regeneration need to believe what you believe but it really isn't practical at all when you review the life of Christ.
In Luke 2 Jesus said very clearly that he was "about His Father's business".
Such started long before the baptism of Jesus.
Luk 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
Luk 2:50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.
civic
Active Member
This sounds very “ Kenosis “
Doug Brents
Active Member
No, I have not forgotten them. But as I said, they do not indicate supernatural wisdom. Verses 40 and 52 state that He grew in wisdom and knowledge and physical strength.
He knew who He was (God) even then. But He was not yet empowered by the Holy Spirit as He would be after His baptism.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
So His wisdom was just "natural"?
Nonsense. The ministry of Christ began long before He was baptized. You're just repeating the false narrative you've received.
Baptism was His Coronation to mankind. The Priestly work of Christ began from the very moment of His conception.
I wish people would abandon what they heard and pay attention to what actually happened.
AaronH
Active Member
Amen! I would add that God wants actual righteousness from us, not "imputed" righteousness.
civic
Active Member
Yep
Still we get righteousness
Romans 4:5–8 (LEB) — 5 But to the one who does not work, but who believes in the one who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited for righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks about the blessing of the person to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 7 “Blessed are they whose lawless deeds have been forgiven, and whose sins are covered over. 8 Blessed is the person against whom the Lord will never count sin.”
Romans 3:21–26 (LEB) — 21 But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been revealed, being testified about by the law and the prophets—22 that is, the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. For there is no distinction, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified as a gift by his grace, through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God made publicly available as the mercy seat through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness, because of the passing over of previously committed sins, 26 in the forbearance of God, for the demonstration of his righteousness in the present time, so that he should be just and the one who justifies the person by faith in Jesus.
Eternally-Grateful
Active Member
Oh I Agree
the problem is our righteousness can not save us, so for salvation, we need imputed righteousness
Doug Brents
Active Member
Up to the point at which He was empowered by the Holy Spirit at His baptism, yes.
I am not repeating what I have heard. I am stating what Scripture says. His ministry began when He was baptized by John.
It might have started when He was at the Temple when He was 12 years old. But His parents commanded Him to come home with them, so He subjected Himself to them, and delayed (potentially) His ministry until He was no longer subject to their authority. This appears to be when Joseph died and He became the head of the household. But then, all of this paragraph is supposition on my part.
He was certainly born the King of kings, and priest, but His work as priest did not begin until He took up that post and began His ministry. Before that, He worked with Joseph as a τέκτων (tektōn). Just as David was made king by God long before he was crowned and acknowledged as such by the people, Jesus was born King but even now is not acknowledged as such by many people.
Dizerner
Active Member
A word to the wise—
When the Bahia is on your side that may be cause to think twice about whether you really have a Biblical Gospel.
Because I guarantee you—the Bahai do NOT have the Gospel.
praise_yeshua
Active Member
Guilt by association nonsense. I only have one side. The side that is right.
What pagan infidels do you share common beliefs with?
civic
Active Member
Calvin PSA
Dizerner
Active Member
Tell it to Jesus:
"In fact, you bear witness that you approve the deeds of your fathers;
for they indeed killed them, and you build their tombs (Lk. 11:48 NKJ)
I'm tired of all these Bahai tombs around here.
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