Why we naturally HATE penal substitution

Adherent said:
That's what I'm talking about ,,,"SOUNDS SO LOVELY" I'm a believer, Jesus is my Lord and King.
Click to expand...
Do you mind if i ask you a question .
WHY Was Israel NOT allowed to enter into the promised land .
Was it cause they as one said HEY WE DONT BELIEVE IN GOD AT ALL
or , or was it because THEY DID NOT BELEIVE HIM .
IF you said the latter you would be right .
WHEN GOD SPOKE abraham BELIEVED GOD and abraham obeyed GOD .
SO my question to us all today , and its not to condmen
but to truly make us think again .
My question is while many sure can claim to beleive IN JESUS the CHRIST
they sure dont seem to beleive HIS WORDS .
AND that entails a serious PROBLEM . they have heeded men who by doctrines and precepts
have created another image of JESUS which is not JESUS .
This too is very deadly and its why sound doctrine must be taught
bibles be read and we stay refreshed in prayer and bible reading to be refreshed .
Because the jesus many seem to love and beleive in
SEEMS to hold rainbows , kiss korans , honors sin . AND THA TAINT JESUS
 
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY said:
Do you mind if i ask you a question .
WHY Was Israel NOT allowed to enter into the promised land .
Was it cause they as one said HEY WE DONT BELIEVE IN GOD AT ALL
or , or was it because THEY DID NOT BELEIVE HIM .
IF you said the latter you would be right .
WHEN GOD SPOKE abraham BELIEVED GOD and abraham obeyed GOD .
SO my question to us all today , and its not to condmen
but to truly make us think again .
My question is while many sure can claim to beleive IN JESUS the CHRIST
they sure dont seem to beleive HIS WORDS .
AND that entails a serious PROBLEM . they have heeded men who by doctrines and precepts
have created another image of JESUS which is not JESUS .
This too is very deadly and its why sound doctrine must be taught
bibles be read and we stay refreshed in prayer and bible reading to be refreshed .
Because the jesus many seem to love and beleive in
SEEMS to hold rainbows , kiss korans , honors sin . AND THA TAINT JESUS
Click to expand...
No I don't mind at all. That's why we are here to learn from each other. So lets see what I can learn from you question.

I see where you are coming from in you post and I think it was there failure to trust God. They didn't believe that God would do what He said He would do.

God asks Moses to send out spies to survey the land He is giving to the Israelites. But the Israelites didn't believe the report. Even though Moses assures the people that God will fight for them just as he did in Egypt, they do not trust God to fulfill his promises. They didn't believe Him.

As we know they all end up dying in the wilderness because of this disobedience. they are barred from entering the promised land.

"Not one of these - not one of this evil generation - shall see the good land that I swore to give to your ancestors"
Deuteronomy 1:35

www.thetorah.com

Did the Exodus Generation Die in the Wilderness or Enter Canaan? - TheTorah.com

Deuteronomy’s core narrative suggests that the same people who left Egypt are addressed by Moses on the eve of their entry into the Promised Land. | Dr. Gili Kugler
www.thetorah.com www.thetorah.com
 
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY said:
Do you mind if i ask you a question .
WHY Was Israel NOT allowed to enter into the promised land .
Was it cause they as one said HEY WE DONT BELIEVE IN GOD AT ALL
or , or was it because THEY DID NOT BELEIVE HIM .
IF you said the latter you would be right .
WHEN GOD SPOKE abraham BELIEVED GOD and abraham obeyed GOD .
SO my question to us all today , and its not to condmen
but to truly make us think again .
My question is while many sure can claim to beleive IN JESUS the CHRIST
they sure dont seem to beleive HIS WORDS .
AND that entails a serious PROBLEM . they have heeded men who by doctrines and precepts
have created another image of JESUS which is not JESUS .
This too is very deadly and its why sound doctrine must be taught
bibles be read and we stay refreshed in prayer and bible reading to be refreshed .
Because the jesus many seem to love and beleive in
SEEMS to hold rainbows , kiss korans , honors sin . AND THA TAINT JESUS
Click to expand...
@TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
“But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; and that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭3‬:‭14‬-‭17‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY said:
Sounds very lovely indeed .
Its why its called A FREE GIFT .
And now for a word written long long ago
and recorded in a scroll , a book known as revelation .
AND LET WHO SO EVER WILL
COME and DRINK of the water of life freely .
That is an offering unto any , who so ever WILL let them drink
OH its JESUS preaching time all right .
And time to remind this world and sadly much of christendom
that HE wont be denied .
AND THOUGH GOD desires not the death of the wicked but rather they repent
And THOUGH surely HE has been VERY VERY LONGSUFFERING
THEY will have the part in the LAKE that burneth with fire, known as the second death ,
IF THEY reject HIM . And can no man by THE SPIRIT call him accursed .
SO all other religoins do and thus HAVE NOT the SPIRIT .
IF we desire folks to be saved
AS DO GOD
THEN we had preached JESUS to them with the dire reminder YE must bleieve or perish .
But he who hates his neighbor giveth lies to his neighbor
As it is written ye shall not HATE your neighbor in your heart , you shall in any way rebuke him
and not ALLOW sin upon him . Well JESUS aint the minstir of sin , so he dont honor anyones sin
AND UNBELEIF IS SIN , the deadly sin of all . IT TO FAIL , TO REJECT to BELEIEVE ON CHRIST .
I Told you , ye shall DIE in your sins , for if ye beleive NOT that i AM HE ye shall die in your sins .
Click to expand...
@TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
“Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭19‬:‭17‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY said:
The sheep of His pasture dont go around preaching death and offering up false hope .
They preach THE WORD OF LIFE that giveth eternal life unto all who do beleive in HIM .
THEY preach JESUS the CHRIST and Him crucified . Every word of HIS is as honey to their taste.
They wont heed the seducing spirits and doctrines of men
they have overcome THEM , for GREATER IS HE that is in his sheep than he that is in the world .
JESUS DOES have the sheep . And sheep look out for sheep . by the SAME ONE SPIRIT
that works within all sheep .
SHEEP offer the Water of life that if one drinks of shall have everlasting life .
goats offer up the waters of death that giveth but false hope .
Click to expand...
@TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
“Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭4‬:‭4‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY said:
To the trenches my friend its even later than it was yesterday at this time .
Paradise forever with CHRIST sure SOUNDS SO LOVELY and man the hour draws ever nigh .
One day in an hour known to no man
shall all saints who had endured faithful in HIM , OH THEY FLY HOME my friend .
Till that hour , OF which no man knows , of which do draw nigh ,
Let us be real diligent and very busy preaching THE ONLY and i must again say ONLY NAME
whereby one may be saved .
SO now i leave us with a question a jailor once asked . VERY SIMPLE answer that paul and silas gave him too .
SIRS what MUST I DO , to BE SAVED .
BELIEVE YE ON JESUS THE CHRIST . now aint that real simple .
but you would marvel at the attacks i have recieved as well as have others
for reminding EVEN THOSE within CHRISTENDOM THAT ONE MUST BELIEVE TO BE SAVED .
Aint that SAD my friend . BUT it will get only worse with whaterver short time we have left in this world .
Click to expand...
@TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
“He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2‬:‭7‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY said:
Correct my friend .
Speaking of genesis .
What was the one tree GOD had told them NOT to eat of for in the day ye eat thereof ye shall surely die .
And what was the objective of the serpent . TO convince eve That she would NOT die
but simply become as gods to know good and evil .
Well they did become as gods to know good and evil , AS GOD himself later says
BUT they died , for the serpent lied . You see WHAT GOD says IS TRUTH .
Now i want to introduce us all
to another major event in these last hours .
JESUS Came that all who do beleive would NOT perish but have everlasting life .
The serpent now says as do his many men
OH SURELY ye shall not perish , for GOD is love . again using a truth out of text to LIE .
as the serpent promotes his big ol inclusive interfaith FAT ROAD LIE .
And now again i must all remind us
CAN GOD LIE . SO what makes us think JESUS CAN and HE SAID they would be damned
and how woeful to those who had failed to beleive on HIM , worse than sodom .
SO are we gonna beleive the serpent or CHRIST . JESUS said they would be damned
the serpent says , SURELY they shall not . I already KNOW WHOM I BELIEVE . I SUGGEST WE BELIEVE ONLY GOD .
Click to expand...
@TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
“Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY said:
Look at number six
then go to and behold the night they came to arrest JESUS .
Look real closely at what occurs .
They have come for CHRIST
and HE says I AM HE
AND not a man could touch him as they all fell backwards .
HE had to give them , ALLOW them permission . THEY FELL backwards
HE then says again who do ye seek
and they said again JESUS
and he offers himself over . They could not touch him . Not a one could have as they all fell backwards .
JESUS laid HIS OWN LIFE DOWN WILLFULLY , NO MAN COULD TAKE IT FROM HIM .
As EVEN he warns the desciples who had cut off the ear of ol malchus .
SHEATH your swords , DONT YE KNOW that i COULD command over twelve legions of angels
BUT , He knew the Fathers will my friend . HE gave up HIS LIFE .
HE had the POWER to lay it down and the POWER TO RAISE IT UP . me also thinks the latter part
is what many often miss . I HAVE the POWER to RAISE IT UP again . HE said I HAVE THE POWER to raise it again .
Now to the trenches one and to the trenches all .
Click to expand...
@TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
“Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10‬:‭17‬-‭18‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 
Marvelloustime said:
@TOTHALORDBEALLGLORY
“Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Click to expand...
Enter ye in at the strait gate , JESUS THE CHRIST , for all inclusive diverse and broad is the intefaith path
that leads to destruction . And sister many therebe going in that path .
TO the trenches one and to the trenches all .
Line the walls with bibles in one hand and lots of praises with thanksgivings in the other .
I have wonderful news .
Absolutely wonderful news . Our salvation is far nearer than when we first beleived .
Stand the wall and dig in them trenches
its all out war in these final hours upon earth .
 
Adherent said:
Without the Empty Tome you have no Gospel. Jesus goes down in burial and comes up in resurrection. Same with us, the old man is dead the new creation has risen into newness of life.

Click to expand...
TO the trenches . For many now within even christendom
have no idea what that means . as the old man still reigns supreme under a version of another jesus
that feeds its sinful nature and has promised a lie that it wont be able to deliver
ON the day of the LORD . Stand the walls . man the trenches
for we must go out as we came in , FAITHFUL TO CHRIST no matter the cost .
Many , perhaps a number i cannot even count
have come and gone before us and many of those have bled .
This last generation has only entered into what many others before us did enter .
And BIG TIME tribulation is coming , YES EVEN in the western socities . BUT CHRIST
was with them , HE SHALL be with us no matter what we must endure .
TO the trenches one and to the trenches all .
 
The image of Jesus on the cross, also known as a crucifix, is widely regarded as a symbol of Roman Catholicism. Many Protestant organizations agree that the image focuses too heavily on Christ's death and not on his resurrection. By examining history, namely the Protestant split from the Catholic Church and the birth of Lutheranism and Reformed Christianity, we understand more about the absence of the crucifix from most Protestant churches.

Most of the crosses we have today do not have Jesus on them unless you are a Catholic. I understand what @Adherent is saying. @Dizerner is also correct as you can't have one without the other.

An Empty Cross and An Empty Tomb​


cross1.jpg
 
TomL said:
Who mentioned anything eliminating the cross?

You are reading into existence that which has not been denied.
Click to expand...

Notice how you completely evaded my question?

When did God judge your sin?

See, by removing that element from the Cross, you are in fact denying it.

Oh, you admit there was a "cross," but you deny the purpose and meaning of it.

God judged your sin on the Cross.
 
Dizerner said:
Notice how you completely evaded my question?

When did God judge your sin?

See, by removing that element from the Cross, you are in fact denying it.

Oh, you admit there was a "cross," but you deny the purpose and meaning of it.

God judged your sin on the Cross.
Click to expand...
where did God say say He judged your sin at the cross ?
 

Similar threads

Dizerner
Responding to an atheist: "5 Tough Questions for Christians"
2
Replies
20
Views
286
dwight92070
D
Dean
The Sin of Ungodliness
Replies
3
Views
76
Nathan
Nathan
Dizerner
My full defense of PSA
8 9 10
Replies
196
Views
2K
Eternally-Grateful
E
Ozias
There are Rationalistic Objections to Penal Substitution.
Replies
3
Views
278
e v e
e v e
Obadiah
God The Holy Spirit
Replies
2
Views
49
Fred
F
Back
Top Bottom