Then tell me how God died on the cross then. You can’t just do this crap… and say here is why, and not explain yourself…
Why I don’t believe or accept the trinity.
- Thread starter MatthewG
- Start date
Cause if the Messiah was God by virtue of flesh, then yea God died on the cross… but God was in Christ, and left Christ…
And therefore we have again the abandoned Jesus without God in Christ, leaving him…
“Did God forsake Jesus on the cross?”
@civic you hardpress me all the time… but I know better… than to just believe what you have to offer.
And therefore we have again the abandoned Jesus without God in Christ, leaving him…
“Did God forsake Jesus on the cross?”
@civic you hardpress me all the time… but I know better… than to just believe what you have to offer.
civic
Well-known member
heading to a wedding get back to you
Johann
Well-known member
We believe that Jesus Christ was God incarnate. We also believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross. If we say that God died on the cross, and if by that we mean that the divine nature perished, we have stepped over the edge into serious heresy. In fact, two such heresies related to this problem arose in the early centuries of the church: theopassianism and patripassianism. The first of these, theopassianism, teaches that God Himself suffered death on the cross. Patripassianism indicates that the Father suffered vicariously through the suffering of His Son. Both of these heresies were roundly rejected by the church for the very reason that they categorically deny the very character and nature of God, including His immutability. There is no change in the substantive nature or character of God at any time.
It’s the God-man Who dies, but death is something that is experienced only by the human nature, because the divine nature isn’t capable of experiencing death.
God not only created the universe, He sustains it by the very power of His being. As Paul said, “In Him we live and move and have our being” (Acts 17:28). If the being of God ceased for one second, the universe would disappear. It would pass out of existence, because nothing can exist apart from the sustaining power of God. If God dies, everything dies with Him. Obviously, then, God could not have perished on the cross.
Some say, “It was the second person of the Trinity Who died.” That would be a mutation within the very being of God, because when we look at the Trinity we say that the three are one in essence, and that though there are personal distinctions among the persons of the Godhead, those distinctions are not essential in the sense that they are differences in being. Death is something that would involve a change in one’s being.
We should shrink in horror from the idea that God actually died on the cross. The atonement was made by the human nature of Christ. Somehow people tend to think that this lessens the dignity or the value of the substitutionary act, as if we were somehow implicitly denying the deity of Christ. God forbid. It’s the God-man Who dies, but death is something that is experienced only by the human nature, because the divine nature isn’t capable of experiencing death.
Did God Die on the Cross?
The famous hymn of the church “And Can it Be?” contains a line that asks a very poignant question: “How can it be that thou, my God, shouldst die for me?” Is it
www.ligonier.org
Behold
Well-known member
That is a different Thread., different topic.
I just wanna know a yes or a no. Did God die on the cross?
(Sometimes you write things yourself, and sometimes you use the things of others and I can't tell.)We believe that Jesus Christ was God incarnate. We also believe that Jesus Christ died on the cross. If we say that God died on the cross, and if by that we mean that the divine nature perished, we have stepped over the edge into serious heresy. In fact, two such heresies related to this problem arose in the early centuries of the church: theopassianism and patripassianism. The first of these, theopassianism, teaches that God Himself suffered death on the cross. Patripassianism indicates that the Father suffered vicariously through the suffering of His Son. Both of these heresies were roundly rejected by the church for the very reason that they categorically deny the very character and nature of God, including His immutability. There is no change in the substantive nature or character of God at any time.
It’s the God-man Who dies, but death is something that is experienced only by the human nature, because the divine nature isn’t capable of experiencing death.
God not only created the universe, He sustains it by the very power of His being. As Paul said, “In Him we live and move and have our being” (Acts 17:28). If the being of God ceased for one second, the universe would disappear. It would pass out of existence, because nothing can exist apart from the sustaining power of God. If God dies, everything dies with Him. Obviously, then, God could not have perished on the cross.
Some say, “It was the second person of the Trinity Who died.” That would be a mutation within the very being of God, because when we look at the Trinity we say that the three are one in essence, and that though there are personal distinctions among the persons of the Godhead, those distinctions are not essential in the sense that they are differences in being. Death is something that would involve a change in one’s being.
We should shrink in horror from the idea that God actually died on the cross. The atonement was made by the human nature of Christ. Somehow people tend to think that this lessens the dignity or the value of the substitutionary act, as if we were somehow implicitly denying the deity of Christ. God forbid. It’s the God-man Who dies, but death is something that is experienced only by the human nature, because the divine nature isn’t capable of experiencing death.
Did God Die on the Cross?
The famous hymn of the church “And Can it Be?” contains a line that asks a very poignant question: “How can it be that thou, my God, shouldst die for me?” Is it
There was no way God died on the cross... God left Jesus's body as the Christ in him, and he then died... by giving up his life willingly... as he took on sin, for that body which would pay for all sin...
The Word of God, gave up it's life by and through Yeshua's body, and therefore then Jesus died... and you have the Word of God which is the heart or soul of Jesus, goes to Paradise, and then Prison part of sheol. Before being raised again by the holy spirit of God, according to Paul.
civic
Well-known member
Yes
@Grace ambassador what about you ol, one of infalliable truth.
How did Jesus die on the cross, if he is God? in the way you people make him out to be by the whole trinity speaking crap... I get that Yeshua sits on the throne with his Father, and the Lord God Almighty, but what I Do not get is how, people continue to submit that Yeshua is never subjected to his Father... when it states in the bible it is something done when the end of things come.
How did Jesus die on the cross, if he is God? in the way you people make him out to be by the whole trinity speaking crap... I get that Yeshua sits on the throne with his Father, and the Lord God Almighty, but what I Do not get is how, people continue to submit that Yeshua is never subjected to his Father... when it states in the bible it is something done when the end of things come.
Yes
So God did die on the cross... how do you figure a self existing God dies? ...
That is impossible man... it's impossible by my standards to have God die on the cross for himself... it was the Word of God, giving up within the Body of Jesus himself for his Father...
Behold
Well-known member
The Body.
See, Christ is Jesus is God, "wrapped in Human flesh", born of a Virgin.
This is the reason that the Blood of Jesus, is "Eternal payment for sin".
See, if it was just a man's blood, then that could not be "Jesus is the one time ETERNAL Sacrifice for Sin" )= Of the World.
The Blood of Jesus, is God's Blood, not Mary's., and this Blood of God, is the Blood Atonement forever.
This is why that same shed blood, shed 2000 yrs ago, is keeping the born again, "blood bought" and "redeemed", forever.
This is why a sinner born in 2024, over 2000 yrs after Jesus is back in Heaven.. can still become God's Son, based on the BLOOD that was shed on The Cross, over 2000 yrs ago.
That's not just any Blood...
That's the Blood of Deity.
This is why when a person "trods underfoot" that Blood of Jesus they are Blaspheming GOD..
civic
Well-known member
Nope nothing is impossible with God. Your human mind is incapable of understanding it. Jesus person is Divine. The eternal Son.
Next
Talk with you later
Well, that was a unuseful response. Idk if you will talk to me later personally or not. But im sure you'll come by and chime a bell. Thank you again, and ...
I think your view of the Word of God, and Yahweh, God are distorted... in my opinion but that is your opinion you give that God died on the cross to begin with, as Yeshua was not Yhwh, he was the Word of God...
Sure, he was the exact image and representation of Yahweh, but he never claimed equality with him, and also mentioned his Father was greater than himself...
Some things have to be considered here at least in my opinion.
Behold
Well-known member
(Jesus) = Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be EQUAL= with God."
Philippians 2:6
@civic, the eternal son? Where is that expressed in any of the writings founded in the bible? He was the Word, before becoming the Son, beloved, and raised again Begotten... Perhaps the idea and notion ran through Yahwehs mind before sending the Word, but he was still the Word, prior to being sent, even if in Yahwehs mind he seen what he would do in the future...
I dont get that type of wording personally nor do I adopt it in my vocabulary for ready use. I do get were people see types and versions of christ in and through the old testament narrative... however, I just dont get seeing "Word" as a person, in the beginning because there is no reason to assert that Yahweh, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit was there in the beginning. That is why you see me say "Yahweh, Yahwehs Word, and Yahwehs Spirit."
but then again you may not care and in reality none of these things matter in the end truly.
I dont get that type of wording personally nor do I adopt it in my vocabulary for ready use. I do get were people see types and versions of christ in and through the old testament narrative... however, I just dont get seeing "Word" as a person, in the beginning because there is no reason to assert that Yahweh, Jesus, and The Holy Spirit was there in the beginning. That is why you see me say "Yahweh, Yahwehs Word, and Yahwehs Spirit."
but then again you may not care and in reality none of these things matter in the end truly.
civic
Well-known member
Did God die when Jesus died on the cross? The answer depends on how we understand the meaning of the word die. To die does not mean to go out of existence. Death is separation. Physical death is when the soul-spirit separates from the physical body. So, in that sense, yes, God died, because Jesus was God in human form, and Jesus’ soul-spirit separated from His body (John 19:30). However, if by “death” we mean “a cessation of existence,” then, no, God did not die. For God to “die” in that sense would mean that He ceased to exist, and neither the Father nor the Son nor the Holy Spirit will ever cease to exist. The Son, the second Person of the Trinity, left the body He temporarily inhabited on Earth, but His divine nature did not die, nor could it.
Jesus is truly God and truly man. His physical body did die; His heart stopped beating, and “he gave up his spirit” (Matthew 27:50). Just as our physical bodies will someday die, so did His. But as Jesus died physically, He remained alive spiritually. Jesus made good on His promise to the believing thief on the cross—He and the thief both went to paradise, not physically, but in spirit (Luke 23:43).
So, Jesus died physically on the cross, as was plain for all to see (John 19:34). But there is also the matter of spiritual death. When Jesus was hanging on the cross, He experienced death on our behalf. Even though He is God, He still had to suffer the agony of a temporary separation from the Father due to the sin He bore. After three hours of supernatural darkness, Jesus cried, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Mark 15:34). So, could it be said that Jesus also “died” spiritually? Again, it was only His human nature that was separated from God, not His divine nature. God did not “die.”
The question for all people to ask is “what will happen to my soul/spirit when it leaves my physical body?” This is the most crucial question in life. As we saw with Jesus, our spirits will leave our bodies and travel on to somewhere else. We will either follow Him to heaven to spend eternity with Him, or we will go to hell to spend eternity in “outer darkness” where there will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 8:12). There is no other option. Jesus’ death on the cross paid the way for all who would ever believe in Him so that we can know for sure where our spirits will reside for eternity. His death provided us spiritual life, both here and in heaven. “And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you” (Romans 8:11). got ?
hope this helps !!!
civic
Well-known member
"Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood." (Acts 20:28)
The Belgic Confession 19, "But these two natures are so closely united in one Person that they were not separated even by His death. Therefore that which He, when dying, commended into the hands of His Father, was a real human spirit, departing from His body. But in the meantime the divine nature always remained united with the human, even when He lay in the grave; and the Godhead did not cease to be in Him, any more than it did when He was an infant, though it did not so clearly manifest itself for a while."
Persons die not natures. His Person is Divine- the Eternal Son the 2nd Person of the Trinity, Incarnate.
hope this helps !!!
The Belgic Confession 19, "But these two natures are so closely united in one Person that they were not separated even by His death. Therefore that which He, when dying, commended into the hands of His Father, was a real human spirit, departing from His body. But in the meantime the divine nature always remained united with the human, even when He lay in the grave; and the Godhead did not cease to be in Him, any more than it did when He was an infant, though it did not so clearly manifest itself for a while."
Persons die not natures. His Person is Divine- the Eternal Son the 2nd Person of the Trinity, Incarnate.
hope this helps !!!
