Johann
Well-known member
Will do and thank you for the timely intervention.
Why I don’t believe or accept the trinity.
- Thread starter MatthewG
- Start date
You're quite welcome Johann. How's things going over in South Africa?
Johann
Well-known member
Not good-not good at all, complete and utter lawlessness. Don't want to elaborate here.
Sorry to hear that.
Johann
Well-known member
I appreciate your concern-I really do. But we are not of this world.
Shalom to you and precious family.
Johann.
That's right, We're citizens of heaven. Blessings back at you.
Johann
Well-known member
Thank you and I still don't know your name. 01.33 AM.
101G
Well-known member
a few things. #1. how do you used the term "His Father", biologically? #2. you said, "And that Everything the Christ created". the Christ created NOTHING, Jesus did, but not the Christ. #3. you said, "Every Word HE spoke, was instructed and inspired by His Father, the One True God that the Christ Glorified". are you saying that the "Father" is the only TRUE God? yes or No.
he did, listen and Learn, Genesis 1:27 "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them."
how many is "he" or "him?" ... one person, just saying ME...... in context, and proper grammar, (smile). for he was the ONLY one at Genesis 1... when "he" made man male and Female. which certify John 17:3 as one PERSON. this is just too easy not to understand.
101G.
101G
Well-known member
civic
Well-known member
See below revelation 5
They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. 12 In a loud voice they were saying:
“Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain,
to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength
and honor and glory and praise!”
13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying:
“To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb
be praise and honor and glory and power,
for ever and ever!”
14 The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped
Biology is irrelevant in Spiritual matters, in my view. Jesus calls Him His Father, that's good enough for me.
Col. 2:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: 16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
The scriptures do not agree with your philosophy in this matter. The man "Jesus" didn't exist before all things, but the Christ, the "Light of the World" existed "with His Father" before the world was. At least according to the Jesus "of the Bible".
John 17: 5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
It's about what the Jesus "of the Bible" said.
John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee "the only true God", and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Paul understood.
1 Cor. 11: 3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Gen. 1: 26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
This is after God sent the "Light" into this World.
As I said, when a man selects one sentence from the Bible, and Separates it from the rest of the Bible to justify a preconceived religious philosophy, or to create doctrine as opposed to seeking God's Truth, we end up with a world of dozens of religious sects and businesses, all promoting different doctrines and philosophies. All convinced that the religion they adopted along with its preferred religious philosophers, are superior to the other religious sects and businesses who also call Jesus Lord, Lord.
For me it's simple. Don't listen to any other voice in the garden God placed me in. Listen to Him. So given that is who I listen to, it's clear that the Christ, the Rock of Israel who became a man in the person of Jesus, was with the Father at creation. Since I have no religion to promote or philosophy to peddle, it easy for me to accept this simple Truth.
101G
Well-known member
no, it's not. for the title "Father" belongs to the LORD, and the Lord. ...... per Isaiah 44:24 and John 1:3 who is creator. so try again.
LOL, no flesh and blood existed before the world. Christ is flesh and blood. so try again. NOW LISTEN, the Spirit of Christ was before the word. got that?
same ... "PERSON".
the head of Christ? why not say the head of JESUS? cannot because Paul knows that Jesus is God..... (smile). hence the title Christ, God shared in flesh. Oh this is just too easy.
and you're still in darkness. the Light is God himself, his WISDOM. do you not understand? Listen,
Genesis 1:3 "And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."
see that term "Light?" it's the Hebrew term,
H216 אוֹר 'owr (ore) n-f.
1. illumination.
2. (concretely) luminary (in every sense, including lightning, happiness, etc.).
[from H215]
KJV: bright, clear, + day, light (-ning), morning, sun.
Root(s): H215
see that word, "happiness" in definition #2. keep that in mind. for it will reveal the TRUTH, but now,
Genesis 1:15 "And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so."
the Hebrew term "light" here is,
H215 אוֹר 'owr (ore) v.
1. to be luminous.
2. (causative) to make luminous.
{literally and metaphorically}
[a primitive root]
KJV: X break of day, glorious, kindle, (be, en-, give, show) light (-en, -ened), set on fire, shine.
SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE TWO? now the revelation. remember 101G told you to keep the term "happiness" in mind of the first definition? here's why. the term happiness is synonyms with Rejoicing and delight. now let's see wisdom, (who is of God), in this role of "happiness"
Proverbs 8:22 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old." Proverbs 8:23 "I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was." Proverbs 8:24 "When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water." Proverbs 8:25 "Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:" Proverbs 8:26 "While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world." Proverbs 8:27 "When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:" Proverbs 8:28 "When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:" Proverbs 8:29 "When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:" Proverbs 8:30 "Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;" Proverbs 8:31 "Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men." Proverbs 8:32 "Now therefore hearken unto me, O ye children: for blessed are they that keep my ways."
BINGO there is the truth
'
101G.
Peterlag
Well-known member
There are many descriptions, titles, and names for God in the Bible and I would like to add God’s proper name is “Yahweh”which occurs more than 6,000 times in the Hebrew Old Testament and is generally translated as “LORD.” But God is also referred to as Elohim, Adonai, El Shaddai, the Ancient of Days, the Holy One of Israel, Father, Shield, and by many more designations. Furthermore, God is holy (Leviticus 11:44), which is why He was called “the Holy One” (the Hebrew text uses the singular adjective “holy” to designate “the Holy One." He is also spirit (John 4:24). It makes perfect sense since God is holy and God is spirit that “Holy”and “Spirit” are sometimes combined and used as one of the many designations for God. Thus, the Hebrew or Greek words for the "HOLY SPIRIT" should be brought into English as the "Holy Spirit”when the subject of a verse is God.
None of the dozens of descriptions, titles, or names of God are believed to be a separate, co-equal “Person”in a triune God except for the “HOLY SPIRIT” and there is no solid biblical reason to make the "Holy Spirit” into a separate “Person.” In other contexts the “HOLY SPIRIT” refers to the gift of God’s nature that He placed on people and the new birth to the Christian, and in those contexts it should be translated as the “holy spirit." God placed a form of His nature which is“holy spirit” upon people when He wanted to spiritually empower them because our natural fleshly human bodies do not have spirit power of their own. This holy spirit nature of God was a gift from God to humankind and we see this in the case of Acts 2:38 when the spirit is specifically called a "gift" when given to the Christian.
We have no evidence in the Bible that “the Holy Spirit” was ever used as a name because no one ever used it in a direct address. Many people spoke or prayed directly to God, starting out by saying “O Yahweh” (translated as “O LORD” in almost all English versions). Furthermore, the name “Jesus” is a Greek form of the name“Joshua” (in fact, the King James Version confuses “Joshua” and “Jesus”in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8) and many people spoke “to Jesus” in the Bible. But no one in the Bible ever used “the Holy Spirit” in a direct address because there's simply no actual name for any “Person” known as “the Holy Spirit” anywhere in the Bible.
None of the dozens of descriptions, titles, or names of God are believed to be a separate, co-equal “Person”in a triune God except for the “HOLY SPIRIT” and there is no solid biblical reason to make the "Holy Spirit” into a separate “Person.” In other contexts the “HOLY SPIRIT” refers to the gift of God’s nature that He placed on people and the new birth to the Christian, and in those contexts it should be translated as the “holy spirit." God placed a form of His nature which is“holy spirit” upon people when He wanted to spiritually empower them because our natural fleshly human bodies do not have spirit power of their own. This holy spirit nature of God was a gift from God to humankind and we see this in the case of Acts 2:38 when the spirit is specifically called a "gift" when given to the Christian.
We have no evidence in the Bible that “the Holy Spirit” was ever used as a name because no one ever used it in a direct address. Many people spoke or prayed directly to God, starting out by saying “O Yahweh” (translated as “O LORD” in almost all English versions). Furthermore, the name “Jesus” is a Greek form of the name“Joshua” (in fact, the King James Version confuses “Joshua” and “Jesus”in Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8) and many people spoke “to Jesus” in the Bible. But no one in the Bible ever used “the Holy Spirit” in a direct address because there's simply no actual name for any “Person” known as “the Holy Spirit” anywhere in the Bible.
Grace ambassador
Well-known member
Precious friends, another problem with Christ "not Being" God Almighty Also, with other problems, has this contradiction:
God, not humans or angels, Is Omnipresent, Living In All believers:
Amen.
God, not humans or angels, Is Omnipresent, Living In All believers:
"...Christ In you, The Hope Of Glory..." (Colossians 1:27)
Already Confirmed By Him, While He Was "on the earth," eh?:"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but He That came down from
heaven, even The Son of man Which Is In heaven." (John 3:13 AV)
Why The Triune GodHead Is Correct!
Amen.
Peterlag
Well-known member
If the Apostle Thomas thought Jesus was God. Would he have not believed God could have gotten up from the dead?
We have to remember that Thomas’ statement occurred in a moment of surprise and even perhaps shock. Thomas saw that what Jesus had said was true. The Father had worked in Jesus and raised him from the dead. Thomas, looking at the living Jesus, saw both Jesus and the God who raised him from the dead. It is also important to know that the early manuscripts of the Bible were written in all capital letters. That means that technically, both Elohim in Hebrew and Theosin Greek should always be translated “GOD,” in all capital letters. Since the biblical languages used the word “GOD” to refer to God, lesser divinities such as the Devil, angels, and demons, and also to rulers, judges, and people who represented God in some way, Bible readers are forced to use the context and scope of Scripture to determine whether the modern English translation should be “God,” “god,” or “gods."
We have to remember that Thomas’ statement occurred in a moment of surprise and even perhaps shock. Thomas saw that what Jesus had said was true. The Father had worked in Jesus and raised him from the dead. Thomas, looking at the living Jesus, saw both Jesus and the God who raised him from the dead. It is also important to know that the early manuscripts of the Bible were written in all capital letters. That means that technically, both Elohim in Hebrew and Theosin Greek should always be translated “GOD,” in all capital letters. Since the biblical languages used the word “GOD” to refer to God, lesser divinities such as the Devil, angels, and demons, and also to rulers, judges, and people who represented God in some way, Bible readers are forced to use the context and scope of Scripture to determine whether the modern English translation should be “God,” “god,” or “gods."
uh. maybe someone should have told Peterlag that Jesus had "gotten up from the dead." It is surprising the details of the New Testament that he so often misses. Maybe it would side a bit with Peterlag to note that the disciples did not recognize the deity of Christ before his death and resurrection, especially noting they hardly realized he is the Messiah --which could have appeared doubtful for 3 days until he was raised from the dead. Afterwards, however, it became obvious and the words of Christ in the gospels could be understood in light of Christ's equality in the Godhead.
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Grace ambassador
Well-known member
Amen! Exactly what happened Afterwards of:
"And they shall scourge Him, and put Him to death: and the third day
He shall rise again. And they understood none of these things: and this
saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken."
(Luke 18:33-34 AV)
When:
"Then opened He their understanding, that they might understand The
Scriptures, And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved
Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day" (Luke 24:45 AV)
Thomas: "my Lord And my God" Is Referring to "The Same One" Who WillSit On The Great White Throne Of Judgment, as Who? "God" (Rev 20:12 AV),
Of Course, The Father Judging no man, but Committing All Judgment to:
God, The Son (John 5:22-23 AV), eh? And, in the Very Next Verse:
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My Word, and believeth
on Him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into
condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. " (John 5:24 AV)
Sad to say, it seems like a "bogus claim" to me that one can "believe on The Father,and have eternal life" while ignoring The Plain Words Of His SON, eh?
Amen.
Peterlag
Well-known member
We cannot approach the Bible with wisdom and “reason together” if we must invent and use non-biblical phrases to support our theology. The Bible calls Jesus the “Son” of God for the simple reason that he had a beginning. Jesus had been part of God’s plan since the foundation of the world, but he began his actual life when God “fathered” him and Mary conceived him in her womb. There are many verses where Jesus and God are portrayed as two separate beings and there are too many examples to list, but just to mention a few we can look at when Jesus told the rich young ruler that he was not good, but “God” was good. Also Jesus grew in favor with “God” and with men, and he told his disciples“ Believe in God; believe also in me."
I find it interesting that the Church Epistles were authored by both God and Christ and we see this in 1 Corinthians 1:3 that says “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” There's a lot of Scripture that shows Jesus to be separate and distinct from“God” which is what the people of the time believed and expected. The Trinitarian explanation of these verses is that Jesus is God and so“God” means “the Father” when Jesus speaks of himself and “God.” But the Bible never says that. It's only because Trinitarian doctrine asserts that Jesus is God that the assumption is made that “God” means “the Father” when Jesus and God appear together.
I find it interesting that the Church Epistles were authored by both God and Christ and we see this in 1 Corinthians 1:3 that says “Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.” There's a lot of Scripture that shows Jesus to be separate and distinct from“God” which is what the people of the time believed and expected. The Trinitarian explanation of these verses is that Jesus is God and so“God” means “the Father” when Jesus speaks of himself and “God.” But the Bible never says that. It's only because Trinitarian doctrine asserts that Jesus is God that the assumption is made that “God” means “the Father” when Jesus and God appear together.
Finally at last, Peterlag's denial of the eternal divinity of Christ is brought to the forefront. He wishes to deny the many passages of Christ's equality with God even before his incarnation. Peterlag does this without sufficient argument against the passages about Christ coming from heaven to be among creation. Part of Peterlag's confusion is about Jesus being called God along with God the Father. For those who like to be informed by scripture, Christ Jesus is properly called God, as being part of the Trinity Godhead. However, Christ's incarnation provides a distinct identity of him as having been among humanity and now having a glorified body. Thus Paul refers to him by his title of Christ (Annointed one -- both as king and priest).
This has been a good example of someone arguing to his best ability to reduce the status of Christ but never having a sufficient argument. Instead, we have further confirmation of the Triune essence of God.
