Who The Father Comes To

[Azriel]

That's simply not true. Every monergist I know believes in free will. Just not libertarian free will. We freely will according to our inclination.

So if a persons hears the gospel and their inclination was to follow Jesus, by their own free will they have become a Christian.

If one follows their Inclinations they are not monergistic they do in fact include something In the salvation process.

How does that fit in with irresistible grace and effectual calling?

I object to monergism because of the necessary implication stated plainly by Calvin that it requires God to withhold or withdraw monergistic grace from many of the very people he created in his own image and likeness to their eternal damnation and suffering “for his glory.”

Then you have God drag some people kicking and screaming into His kingdom while preventing others who desperately want to be saved?

This is quite obviously intended to explicitly confirm that the salvific process according to Calvinism does not require man’s will to be forcibly changed in the outworking of the doctrine of unconditional election through irresistible grace (the efficacious call), monergistic salvation in which man is completely passive, and the free exercise of faith.

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

So if a persons hears the gospel and their inclination was to follow Jesus, by their own free will they have become a Christian.

If one follows their Inclinations they are not monergistic they do in fact include something In the salvation process.

How does that fit in with irresistible grace and effectual calling?

I object to monergism because of the necessary implication stated plainly by Calvin that it requires God to withhold or withdraw monergistic grace from many of the very people he created in his own image and likeness to their eternal damnation and suffering “for his glory.”

Then you have God drag some people kicking and screaming into His kingdom while preventing others who desperately want to be saved?

This is quite obviously intended to explicitly confirm that the salvific process according to Calvinism does not require man’s will to be forcibly changed in the outworking of the doctrine of unconditional election through irresistible grace (the efficacious call), monergistic salvation in which man is completely passive, and the free exercise of faith.

Our inclination is evil by nature. As Paul says, we are dead in trespasses and slaves to sin. That's our fallen state. Nobody is born with the inclination to love God.

 

[Azriel]

Our inclination is evil by nature. As Paul says, we are dead in trespasses and slaves to sin. That's our fallen state. Nobody is born with the inclination to love God.

I'm familiar with total depravity and does not mean that man is as bad as he could be or that his every deed is entirely or perfectly evil. Rather it means that depravity, or moral corruption, has affected his entire being—body, intellect, and will. It also does not mean that man has no conscience or that he is totally insensible to good and evil. The Scriptures teach that all men possess a conscience, which, if not seared, is able to lead them to a good character and actions.

15 They show that the essential requirements of the Law are written in their hearts and are operating there, with which their consciences (sense of right and wrong) also bear witness; and their [moral] decisions (their arguments of reason, their condemning or approving thoughts) will accuse or perhaps defend and excuse [them].
Romans 2:15

What this does is enable man to respond in a positive manner to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Thus overcoming total depravity No longer slaves to sin and death.

The good news is when we realize what we were before Christ and what we deserved in that state, it further magnifies the enormity of the Gospel for us. We were sinners by nature and deed, and we were corrupt to the point of depravity. We were lawbreakers and criminals without excuse before God’s justice.

We deserved nothing less than death and eternal condemnation, but now the blood of God’s own Son saves us. While we were helpless sinners and enemies of God, Christ died for the ungodly. Through Him, we who were far off have now been brought near. In Him, we have redemption through His blood, and the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace. We are saved from our sin, reconciled to God, and brought into fellowship with Him as sons!

 

[The Rogue Tomato]

I'm familiar with total depravity and does not mean that man is as bad as he could be or that his every deed is entirely or perfectly evil. Rather it means that depravity, or moral corruption, has affected his entire being—body, intellect, and will. It also does not mean that man has no conscience or that he is totally insensible to good and evil. The Scriptures teach that all men possess a conscience, which, if not seared, is able to lead them to a good character and actions.

15 They show that the essential requirements of the Law are written in their hearts and are operating there, with which their consciences (sense of right and wrong) also bear witness; and their [moral] decisions (their arguments of reason, their condemning or approving thoughts) will accuse or perhaps defend and excuse [them].
Romans 2:15

What this does is enable man to respond in a positive manner to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Thus overcoming total depravity No longer slaves to sin and death.

The good news is when we realize what we were before Christ and what we deserved in that state, it further magnifies the enormity of the Gospel for us. We were sinners by nature and deed, and we were corrupt to the point of depravity. We were lawbreakers and criminals without excuse before God’s justice.

We deserved nothing less than death and eternal condemnation, but now the blood of God’s own Son saves us. While we were helpless sinners and enemies of God, Christ died for the ungodly. Through Him, we who were far off have now been brought near. In Him, we have redemption through His blood, and the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace. We are saved from our sin, reconciled to God, and brought into fellowship with Him as sons!

I agree that fallen men can do some good things, but that's no indication that they are able to respond to the Gospel or love God. Your view is typically called semi-pelagianism. Look it up.

Paul says we were DEAD in our trespasses and sins. Not slightly alive. God says,

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”

The "good" that fallen man does is fleshly good. You may protect your children. That's good. You're still dead in trespasses and sins.

 

[Azriel]

Man can and does respond to the Gospel and love God. There is no word or truth of greater importance than the gospel of Jesus Christ and it's available to all who would stop and listen. Some choose to accept it others will choose reject it.

The unregenerate certainly are capable of judging themselves unworthy of everlasting life. But the unregenerate are also capable of being inclined to everlasting life. All who are so inclined will hear the message of life and believe it. They become Believers, Overcomers.

I find it odd that many Calvinists will point to Acts 13:48 as a proof text for unconditional election. Even if Acts 13:48 taught unconditional election (which it does not), Acts 13:46 directly contradicts it. Paul rebuked many of his listeners, people who were fellow Jews: “You reject it,” he said. That is, you reject the message of everlasting life. “You judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life,” Paul charged.