Where Adam and Eve Sinners before the fall?

[jeremiah1five]

Not to worry.. Stand firm and Hold fast to scripture and not the fables of men. Everything in creation reveals God's glory. God's creation does not fall short but accomplishes His purpose.


Here are 10 Bible verses that celebrate God’s creation and reveal His glory through the natural world:

1. John 1:3 (KJV):
2. Isaiah 42:5 (NIV):
3. Psalm 96:11-12 (CEB):
4. Job 12:7-10 (ESV):
5. Romans 1:20 (NLT):
6. Psalm 95:4-5:
7. Genesis 1:1 (KJV):
8. Genesis 1:3 (KJV):
9. Genesis 1:27 (KJV):
10. Psalm 104:24-30 (NIV):

These verses remind us of the greatness of our Creator and the importance of cherishing and caring for His magnificent creation. Amen!

Yes, everything shows God's glory even the creation of darkness and evil:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
That there is none beside me.
I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:6–7.

Amen?

 

[Rowan]

Yes, everything shows God's glory even the creation of darkness and evil:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
That there is none beside me.
I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Isaiah 45:6–7.

Amen?

Isaiah 45:6–7 refers to harmful natural events, calamity, misfortune, adversity, affliction, or disaster. It is in this second sense that Isaiah speaks, and his meaning is reflected in most modern Bible translations of Isaiah 45:7 “I make success and create disaster” (HCSB); “I make well-being and create calamity” (ESV); “I send good times and bad times” (NLT).

God does not create moral evil. For one thing, moral evil is not a “thing” to be made but a choice or intent contrary to God’s good purposes, His holy character, and His law. Moral evil does not conform to God and His will. God is good (Psalm 34:8), holy (Leviticus 11:44; Isaiah 6:3; 1 Peter 1:16), and loving (1 John 4:8); therefore, His plans and purposes are good, holy, and loving. got?

 

[Lily]

The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than “bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7 is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience. God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God brings “evil” and “disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against Him.

Why does Isaiah 45:7 say that God created evil? | GotQuestions.org

Why does Isaiah 45:7 say that God created evil? Did God create evil? What is the interpretation of Isaiah 45:7?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[jeremiah1five]

Isaiah 45:6–7 refers to harmful natural events, calamity, misfortune, adversity, affliction, or disaster. It is in this second sense that Isaiah speaks, and his meaning is reflected in most modern Bible translations of Isaiah 45:7 “I make success and create disaster” (HCSB); “I make well-being and create calamity” (ESV); “I send good times and bad times” (NLT).

The word has a moral meaning. Inanimate things do not have a moral aspect to them such as the way you want the meaning to be.
No, it means evil in a moral sense and where humans are involved.
God is the Author of everything in creation.

God does not create moral evil. For one thing, moral evil is not a “thing” to be made but a choice or intent contrary to God’s good purposes, His holy character, and His law. Moral evil does not conform to God and His will. God is good (Psalm 34:8), holy (Leviticus 11:44; Isaiah 6:3; 1 Peter 1:16), and loving (1 John 4:8); therefore, His plans and purposes are good, holy, and loving. got?

Isaiah says He does whether you want to believe it of not, and by not believing the truth means your other doctrine is askew whatever it may be. We don't live true, true, true, true, lies, true, true...
We live on truth in every point and at every level. Truth is built upon truth. So, by failing to believe one thing about God causes other things one believes about God to become a false idol.
And no, evil is a noun, a thing. It can also be a person and a place.
What you lack is the understanding of how and why God created evil as Isaiah declares. Either way, God is the Author of good and evil in His creation no matter your unbelief.

 

[Alive]

You must not be reading other members comments.
It is in the bible that the man and woman were sinners before the act of disobedience in eating from the forbidden tree.

Lying is a sin. Adam and the woman were created sinners (Greek: "hamartia" translated "sin" in the KJV meaning "missing the mark." What is the "mark" they missed? The glory of God, or the glorious standard that is God.)

6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Proverbs 30:6.

Adam and the woman added to God's Words when he/she said, "Neither shall ye touch it." God did not say these words. He said this:

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Gen. 2:16–17.

The woman said:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. Gen. 3:3.

They lied. Although the addition to God's words are recorded from the mouth of the woman both were created sinful for there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory (sinlessness is a glory of God) to NO ONE. Isaiah said the above about God. So, taking Isaiah's words that God does not give/share/copy His glory leaves the man and woman in their creation fallen short of the glory of God. The word is "sin."

That wasn't the will of God in the matter. Both being created sinners the purpose of God regarding the tree was to give the man and woman the KNOWLEDGE of their sinfulness. There is no freewill involved. By both being created fallen short of God's Sinless glory they could only act and think according to their sinful nature. A leopard cannot change its spots

Here is an ancient quote going all the way back to the garden, or at least shortly thereafter.

13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Sam. 24:12–13.

This is equal to saying "sin comes from sinners" as wickedness comes from the wicked.
Adam and the woman added to God's Word thus showing themselves as sinners before eating from the tree. Both were found to be liars. Lying is a sin. Sin comes from sinners.
As you asked: From the Bible.

That's really a stretch. Who did God tell not to eat the apple Adam right? Who told Eve? Adam right? Do you really think he was lying trying to be deceptive If in fact he had told Eve not to even touch it. Maybe he just told her hey stay away from that tree don't eat that fruit or go near it don't even touch it don't even think about it.

As long as they didn't eat from the tree they were cool. They were upholding what God had told them to do. not eat from the tree. Since they had Dominion in the garden I'm sure they had the right to take it a step further and not touch the tree.

And we're talking free fall here before they ate the apple and before there ever was any law such as "Thou shalt not lie"

Lying is the act of making an untrue statement with the intention of deceiving or misleading someone1234. Lying can be done verbally or non-verbally, and can involve expressing what is false or omitting what is true53. Lying can be used to avoid difficulties, gain advantages, or manipulate others53.

The result of eating the forbidden fruit was sin entering the world and all the pain and suffering that happens as a result. As God promised, death happened. This was not physical death, but spiritual death that caused a separation between God and man because of sin. Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden.

Not for lying to the serpent. That concept is not mentioned in the Bible.

And apparently they had no knowledge of Good and Evil if they had eating the fruit Would have no appeal for them.

And if they had no knowledge of Good and Evil how would they know how to lie or not lie?

 

[jeremiah1five]

That's really a stretch. Who did God tell not to eat the apple Adam right? Who told Eve? Adam right? Do you really think he was lying trying to be deceptive If in fact he had told Eve not to even touch it. Maybe he just told her hey stay away from that tree don't eat that fruit or go near it don't even touch it don't even think about it.

Adam relayed to the woman the command as found in Genesis 2:17
He also told her not to touch it. Either way, one added to the Word of God, and the other compounded that sin which led to her temptation and violating God's Word. Although both were created "sinful" they couldn't help but sin. And although the command came down to not eat from the tree, all the tree showed was that they were sinners before the act of sin. It was necessary to begin offspring and the rest is found in the bible.

As long as they didn't eat from the tree they were cool. They were upholding what God had told them to do. not eat from the tree. Since they had Dominion in the garden I'm sure they had the right to take it a step further and not touch the tree.

They were not cool. Far from it. The tree was necessary to give this couple the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil.

And we're talking free fall here before they ate the apple and before there ever was any law such as "Thou shalt not lie"

Lying is the act of making an untrue statement with the intention of deceiving or misleading someone1234. Lying can be done verbally or non-verbally, and can involve expressing what is false or omitting what is true53. Lying can be used to avoid difficulties, gain advantages, or manipulate others53.

The result of eating the forbidden fruit was sin entering the world and all the pain and suffering that happens as a result. As God promised, death happened. This was not physical death, but spiritual death that caused a separation between God and man because of sin. Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden.

Sin was already in the world before the tree. They were created "sinful" which was the only way God could create them. They were not 'holy,' they were not 'sinless, they were not 'righteous.' They were sinners. Sin comes from sinners.

Not for lying to the serpent. That concept is not mentioned in the Bible.

There was no serpent if you take serpent to mean Satan. The angels that sinned were locked up before God created man.

And apparently they had no knowledge of Good and Evil if they had eating the fruit Would have no appeal for them.

And if they had no knowledge of Good and Evil how would they know how to lie or not lie?

A baby doesn't have knowledge of good and evil, but by nature it would if it had strength grab its mother by the throat and DEMAND its milk!

 

[Alive]

Adam relayed to the woman the command as found in Genesis 2:17
He also told her not to touch it. Either way, one added to the Word of God, and the other compounded that sin which led to her temptation and violating God's Word. Although both were created "sinful" they couldn't help but sin. And although the command came down to not eat from the tree, all the tree showed was that they were sinners before the act of sin. It was necessary to begin offspring and the rest is found in the bible.

They were not cool. Far from it. The tree was necessary to give this couple the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil.

Sin was already in the world before the tree. They were created "sinful" which was the only way God could create them. They were not 'holy,' they were not 'sinless, they were not 'righteous.' They were sinners. Sin comes from sinners.

There was no serpent if you take serpent to mean Satan. The angels that sinned were locked up before God created man.

A baby doesn't have knowledge of good and evil, but by nature it would if it had strength grab its mother by the throat and DEMAND its milk!

Babies are born after the fall after sin entered into the world. Adam and Eve on the other hand more in the garden and where God's creation that he pronounced good there was no sin in them. They would have lived forever.

 

[TedT]

A baby doesn't have knowledge of good and evil, but by nature it would if it had strength grab its mother by the throat and DEMAND its milk!

You obviously do not know the extent of the knowledge a fetus may possess.

While in the womb, Jacob and Esau knew:
- the law of primogeniture of the Hebrew society that they would be born into and
- that they would be born into that Hebrew society

GOD told Rebecca that this this knowledge was the reason that impelled them in their sinful desire to be the family ruler and to crush each other to pieces while in the womb, the actual Hebrew word used to describe their fighting that caused Rebecca to call out to GOD about what was happening within her...

I wonder if it is instructive that the twins do not seem to have kept up their murderous hostility to each other after they were actually born while they were still children?

And John the baptiser knew the voice of Mary the first time he heard it while still in his mother's womb, Luke 1:39-44. One might think that he and Jesus were together somewhere before their conception and then were separated and John was eagerly waiting for Jesus to arrive!!!?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Babies are born after the fall after sin entered into the world. Adam and Eve on the other hand more in the garden and where God's creation that he pronounced good there was no sin in them. They would have lived forever.

What are you talking about? Have you studied the Scripture or are you satisfied with the textbook answer?

There is only ONE God.
There is NONE like Him.
He gives His glory to NO ONE.

Do you understand what Isaiah is saying above?

God created man sinful. The word translated "sin" is the Greek "hamartia" which means "missing the mark."
What is the "mark" missed?
The glory of God, or the glory that is God.
The textbook answer is that man (Adam) was "holy" or "sinless" or "innocent." Some say he was "righteous."
Does the textbook answer coincide with what Isaiah said about God?
No. The textbook answer opposes what Isaiah says about God.
The only Person who can stand before a Holy, Sinless, and Righteous God blameless is a Holy, Sinless, Righteous Son. Everyone else falls short of God's glory of Holiness, Sinlessness, and Righteousness.

13 As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked: 1 Sam. 24:13.

This is the same as saying, "sin comes from sinner."

The reason why the man and woman sinned against God was because they were created "sinful" or "missing the mark" of the glory of God. That's the only way they can be created. God doesn't reduplicate Himself in the dirt He used to create man. God didn't copy Himself in man. God didn't 'share' His glory with man.
Even before they disobeyed God and ate from the forbidden tree, they were sinners. Yes, they sinned even before they ate from the forbidden tree.

Lying is a sin, correct? Adam and the woman added to God's Word thus proving they were liars BEFORE they disobeyed God and ate from the tree. God commanded the man:

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. Gen. 2:16–17.

There is no difference between the Law of God and His Commands. The Law of God are His commands, and the Commands of God are Law. If there is a Law, then it means man is guilty of it.

for by the law is the knowledge of sin. Rom. 3:20.

The existence of "thou shalt not" in the Garden proves the man and woman were sinners BEFORE they sinned and ate from the forbidden tree. That is why they sinned. Because sin comes from sinners. Since the command against eating from the one tree was spoken to Adam and not the woman, then it was Adam's responsibility to instruct the woman about not eating from this one tree. This he did because the woman states "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die." Gen. 3:3.

Did God say, "neither shall ye touch it"?
No, He didn't. Adam added to the Word of God as did the woman. And although the man was not tempted, he still ate from the forbidden tree and sinned against God.

6 Add thou not unto his words, Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. Prov. 30:6.

Adam and the woman added to God's Word and in this were proven as liars, even before they ate from the forbidden tree. They were sinners before they ate from the tree. That's why they sinned. They sinned because they were sinners. Just as wickedness comes from the wicked, so does sin come from the sinner. This is a fundamental truth.

God created the man and woman "sinful" meaning "missing the mark" (of the glory of God.) Adam and the woman possessed none of God's glory. They were not "holy," nor were they "sinless," nor were they "innocent."
They sinned by adding to God's Word. Then they sinned again by eating from the forbidden tree. They were not created "holy" for "Holiness" is an Attribute of God and God does not share His glory with anyone. Thus, when God created the man and woman they were created "fallen short of the glory of God." The word for this is "sin."

 

[jeremiah1five]

You obviously do not know the extent of the knowledge a fetus may possess.

While in the womb, Jacob and Esau knew:
- the law of primogeniture of the Hebrew society that they would be born into and
- that they would be born into that Hebrew society

OK. I'll bite. Where's the Scripture to prove your statement?

GOD told Rebecca that this this knowledge was the reason that impelled them in their sinful desire to be the family ruler and to crush each other to pieces while in the womb, the actual Hebrew word used to describe their fighting that caused Rebecca to call out to GOD about what was happening within her...

I wonder if it is instructive that the twins do not seem to have kept up their murderous hostility to each other after they were actually born while they were still children?

And John the baptiser knew the voice of Mary the first time he heard it while still in his mother's womb, Luke 1:39-44. One might think that he and Jesus were together somewhere before their conception and then were separated and John was eagerly waiting for Jesus to arrive!!!?

 

[Parker]

God created Adam and Eve and said they were good. They were not Sinners before the fall.

We know from God’s word that Adam and Eve were not initially tempted from the inside by their own desire, but from the outside by the serpent in the Garden of Eden. While some stipulate that an outward temptation must also have an inward element, nothing in the text of Scripture requires or warrants this assumption.

 

[jeremiah1five]

God created Adam and Eve and said they were good. They were not Sinners before the fall.

The Scripture contradicts your error.
Adam and the woman were created sinners ("missing the mark"), and this is why they sinned. They sinned because sin comes from sinners. They were not holy, and they were not sinless. Only God is Holy and only God is sinless. Isaiah also says from God's own mouth that there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory (holiness, sinlessness, etc.), to NO ONE.

And the word "good" in the creation narrative means "good enough" or "to specification." In other words, God is saying of His creation that it was "good enough" or that His creation was "to specification."

We know from God’s word that Adam and Eve were not initially tempted from the inside by their own desire,

Scripture contradicts you again. There are not two ways to be tempted but one way: from within.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:13–14.

Jesus was tempted the same way. From within.

but from the outside by the serpent in the Garden of Eden.

Can't be Satan because the angels that sinned were locked up before God created man.

While some stipulate that an outward temptation must also have an inward element, nothing in the text of Scripture requires or warrants this assumption.

Again, the Scripture contradicts your heresy.

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. James 1:13–14.

Temptation comes strictly from within.

There is no sin in being tempted. The sin is in acting upon the temptation and fulfilling the desire you have when tempted when the "lust" is in disobedience to God.

And let me add that before Adam and the woman ate from the forbidden tree, they were sinners before that.
Scripture says it is sin to add to God's Word.
God gave Adam the instruction about not eating from the forbidden tree and Adam told the woman what God said to him. But Adam added to God's Word and in this they sinned BEFORE they ate from the tree.

6 Add thou not unto his words,
Lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Prov. 30:6.

By adding to God's Word "neither shall ye touch it" they showed they were sinners before they ate from the forbidden tree. Sin comes from sinners.