When You See JERUSALEM Surrounded By Armies, Luke 21

[Selah]

Does our spirit change at that moment according to 1Cor ch15 ?

Is there a direct reference to our spirits changing after our flesh bodies die
or
are our spirits made in the image of God and return to God as we see in Revelation

Yes, we are changed into spiritual bodies when we die. Flesh and blood cannot enter heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:50 (NKJV) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

 

[DavidTree]

Yes, we are changed into spiritual bodies when we die. Flesh and blood cannot enter heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:50 (NKJV) Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption.

Our spirits are inside our physical bodies right now = Hebrews 4:12

For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

 

[Selah]

or
are our spirits made in the image of God and return to God as we see in Revelation

God is spirit.
John 4:24 (NKJV) “God [is] Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

 

[DavidTree]

God is spirit.
John 4:24 (NKJV) “God [is] Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

and we have been made in His Image of His Spirit within us

Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth?

The spirit of a man is the lamp of the Lord,
Searching all the inner depths of his heart

There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

 

[Red Baker]

@Selah

Eternal life is life never-ending. It’s for all eternity. Those who were saved and then stayed/stay faithful to God all their earthly lives will go through the First Resurrection.

I'm just now reading through these posit, agreeing where I can, and disagreeing where I think I should. But, doing so with grace, since this is not a perquisite for eternal life, not even close, unless one is a extreme full preterist, then I will not have fellowship with such a one.

The statement above is incorrect. Those who have part in the first resurrection, which is spiritual in nature, (new birth) the second death has no power over them. More later.

 

[Red Baker]

@mikesw

I have been looking into eschatology for over 18 years with some more directed effort to understand eschatological terms as an emphasis for looking at the Matt 13 parables of the mysteries of the kingdom of God.

I've been studying and teaching this for over fifty years for whatever that's worth, we shall see. I agree that the parables in Matthew 13 goes perfectly with John's teachings in Revelation, so perfect, as we trust to prove.

Mike, you seem to have a very godly spirit, which will go a long way in coming to the knowledge of God's truth; and even if we do not come to an agreement, your spirit is pleasing in God's sight with what little I have read so far.

I must leave again shortly but will return and make a few posit, maybe tomorrow morning, we shall see.

 

[DavidTree]

@Selah

I'm just now reading through these posit, agreeing where I can, and disagreeing where I think I should. But, doing so with grace, since this is not a perquisite for eternal life, not even close, unless one is a extreme full preterist, then I will not have fellowship with such a one.

The statement above is incorrect. Those who have part in the first resurrection, which is spiritual in nature, (new birth) the second death has no power over them. More later.

The "new birth" occurs within us when we are "Born-Again" = here now while on earth

The First Resurrection is exactly that = Resurrection of the bodies that went to the earth after we die and our spirits ascended to Heaven
(if you have been Born-Again by the Spirit of God).

Are you dissuaded from 1 Corinthians 15:12-18 ???

 

[mikesw]

@mikesw

I've been studying and teaching this for over fifty years for whatever that's worth, we shall see. I agree that the parables in Matthew 13 goes perfectly with John's teachings in Revelation, so perfect, as we trust to prove.

Mike, you seem to have a very godly spirit, which will go a long way in coming to the knowledge of God's truth; and even if we do not come to an agreement, your spirit is pleasing in God's sight with what little I have read so far.

I must leave again shortly but will return and make a few posit, maybe tomorrow morning, we shall see.

Thanks for your generous words.

No problem. One thing I postulated is that I could write a book on a topic and it would sit on library shelves unread for 50 years at which point someone says "this makes sense."
Another thing I have thought is that I might write something that is spot on but this would not mean everyone would accept that finding. I can just try to help the discussion.

One thing I have expected is that if certain aspects of scripture are coming to light more clearly then God has a special reason for that to happen. I also anticipate seeing my expectation in scripture met but also with timing that people of a common eschatological view expect intervention. There logically is a time when the expectations of scripture will be met. It is not an attribute of God to disappoint his people.

 

[Selah]

@Selah

I'm just now reading through these posit, agreeing where I can, and disagreeing where I think I should. But, doing so with grace, since this is not a perquisite for eternal life, not even close, unless one is a extreme full preterist, then I will not have fellowship with such a one.

The statement above is incorrect. Those who have part in the first resurrection, which is spiritual in nature, (new birth) the second death has no power over them. More later.

What was it that I said that was incorrect?

 

[Selah]

The "new birth" occurs within us when we are "Born-Again" = here now while on earth

The First Resurrection is exactly that = Resurrection of the bodies that went to the earth after we die and our spirits ascended to Heaven
(if you have been Born-Again by the Spirit of God).

Are you dissuaded from 1 Corinthians 15:12-18 ???

Dissuaded? How so?

 

[DavidTree]

Dissuaded? How so?

i am asking @Red Baker this exact question = Is he/she dissuaded from 1 Cor 15:12-18 and if so = How so?

We will not know until he/she shares with us.

So let me ask you - are you dissuaded from 1 Cor 15:12-18 ???

 

[Selah]

i am asking @Red Baker this exact question = Is he/she dissuaded from 1 Cor 15:12-18 and if so = How so?

We will not know until he/she shares with us.

So let me ask you - are you dissuaded from 1 Cor 15:12-18 ???

Not even a teeny tiny bit. I believe God’s Word.

 

[DavidTree]

Not even a teeny tiny bit. I believe God’s Word.

Hopefully @Red Baker will share with us.

 

[Red Baker]

@DavidTree

The "new birth" occurs within us when we are "Born-Again" = here now while on earth

David, that's a given.

The First Resurrection is exactly that = Resurrection of the bodies that went to the earth after we die and our spirits ascended to Heaven
(if you have been Born-Again by the Spirit of God).

Prove what you are saying with the word of God, for that's no where to be found in the scriptures, that is: "The First Resurrection is exactly that = Resurrection of the bodies that went to the earth after we die and our spirits ascended to Heaven. That's an oxymoron statement, at least to me ~ no pun intended.

The first resurrection is a spiritual resurrection being raised from being dead in trespasses and sin to life in Jesus Christ. The bodies of the saints will be officially raised on the LAST DAY, per Jesus Christ's very own teaching on both of these truths. I'm going through Revelation 20:1-9 in another thread and not going to rehearse it here, but will give a link later after I'm finished with verses 4,5 of Revelation 20~which may be today.

If this is what you are saying, then, I do agree that part of the first resurrection is a resurrection granting one eternal life, and that life truly never ends, but, after the death of this body of sin and death, we continue to live and reign with Christ, though not as we will after the destruction of this earth and the heavens as we know them. Much like king David's reign over Israel in the OT. More on this later.

 

[Red Baker]

@DavidTree

i am asking @Red Baker this exact question = Is he/she dissuaded from 1 Cor 15:12-18 and if so = How so?

I would be a "He"..... have you ever heard folks call a woman "Red"? Not me. My hair at one time was strawberry blonde, but now, almost like President Trump's since we are almost the same age ~it turned with age.

What does 1st Corinthians 15:12-18 have to do with believing or not believing in the first resurrection? I see no connection either way, since the first resurrection is strictly spiritual in nature, not physical.

John 5:25​

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”

 

[Selah]

@DavidTree

David, that's a given.

Prove what you are saying with the word of God, for that's no where to be found in the scriptures, that is: "The First Resurrection is exactly that = Resurrection of the bodies that went to the earth after we die and our spirits ascended to Heaven. That's an oxymoron statement, at least to me ~ no pun intended.

The first resurrection is a spiritual resurrection being raised from being dead in trespasses and sin to life in Jesus Christ. The bodies of the saints will be officially raised on the LAST DAY, per Jesus Christ's very own teaching on both of these truths. I'm going through Revelation 20:1-9 in another thread and not going to rehearse it here, but will give a link later after I'm finished with verses 4,5 of Revelation 20~which may be today.

If this is what you are saying, then, I do agree that part of the first resurrection is a resurrection granting one eternal life, and that life truly never ends, but, after the death of this body of sin and death, we continue to live and reign with Christ, though not as we will after the destruction of this earth and the heavens as we know them. Much like king David's reign over Israel in the OT. More on this later.

You’re having a little trouble grasping the simplicity of the First Resurrection, methinks.

 

[Red Baker]

@Sel

What was it that I said that was incorrect?

Do you truly desire to know? We shall see.

Eternal life is life never-ending. It’s for all eternity. Those who were saved and then stayed/stay faithful to God all their earthly lives will go through the First Resurrection.

You said: "Eternal life is life never-ending."........... This is true.

You said: "It’s for all eternity" ............. It is for "NOW" and all eternity.

You said: "Those who were saved and then stayed/stay faithful to God all their earthly lives"......................The gift of eternal life was secured by the surety of God's elect, Jesus Christ, his obedience and faith, not ours! Eternal life is not depended on the saints faithfulness, but by two infallible acts of God ! His oath and his promises of never withdrawing his faithfulness from the seed of Jesus Christ. Your statement is is a statement of a person who believes in another gospel, based on man's faithfulness, not God's faithfulness to us.

You said: "will go through the First Resurrection."............................ This is one confused mess you are presenting to be honest. The first resurrection is spiritual and it takes place when we one is born of the Spirit of the Living God, which enables the born again person to live according to the word of God, without which it would be impossible to do so!

This answer that you requested took us from the thread's subject, but be as it may be, it is what it is.

 

[Red Baker]

@Selah

You’re having a little trouble grasping the simplicity of the First Resurrection, methinks.

I'm following Jesus' teaching from John 5, seem very clear to me, and to others, and yes it is simple to those who understands.

Proverbs 8:9​

“They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.” Selah!

 

[Selah]

@Selah

I'm following Jesus' teaching from John 5, seem very clear to me, and to others, and yes it is simple to those who understands.

Proverbs 8:9​

“They are all plain to him that understandeth, and right to them that find knowledge.” Selah!

What is it exactly that you understand from John 5?

 

[DavidTree]

@DavidTree

I would be a "He"..... have you ever heard folks call a woman "Red"? Not me. My hair at one time was strawberry blonde, but now, almost like President Trump's since we are almost the same age ~it turned with age.

What does 1st Corinthians 15:12-18 have to do with believing or not believing in the first resurrection? I see no connection either way, since the first resurrection is strictly spiritual in nature, not physical.

John 5:25​

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.”

Good Morning,

have you ever heard folks call a woman "Red"?

Yes i have, therefore i was not certain on m/f since i cannot tell from name or avatar.
My Aunt Veronica was called 'Blacky' for her dark black hair and my other Aunt was called 'Blondy' because she was blonde.

What does 1st Corinthians 15:12-18 have to do with believing or not believing in the first resurrection? I see no connection either way, since the first resurrection is strictly spiritual in nature, not physical.

1 Corinthian chapter 15 is detailing the First Resurrection = by the Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Here it is: 1 Cor 15:12-19

12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is worthless, and so is your faith. 15In that case, we are also exposed as false witnesses about God. For we have testified about God that He raised Christ from the dead, but He did not raise Him if in fact the dead are not raised.

16For if the dead are not raised, then not even Christ has been raised. 17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. 19If our hope in Christ is for this life alone, we are to be pitied more than all men.

@Red Baker - what part of this are you saying is not true???