When did you "pass from death to life" Catholicism vs Protestants

Again, I understand how popular the religious tradition of this world's religious system is, of cherry-picking scriptures and translation shopping for the purpose of justifying seductive philosophies promoted by this world's religions. And I also understand that the promoters of the "course of this world" will not engage in any honest conversation that might expose an error in their philosophy. The promoters of the mainstream religious sects of Jesus Time, "Who professed to know God" showed this truth pretty clearly.

So It would be foolish to spend too much time with you, if you continue ignoring the Words of Christ that I post, and the questions I pose.

John 5: 24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

John 17: 3 And this is life eternal, "that they might know thee" the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not "live by" bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Matt. 7: 13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which "leadeth unto life", and few there be that find it.

Matt. 7: 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Matt. 24: 4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that "no man" deceive you. 5 For many shall come "in my name", saying, I (Jesus) am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Matt. 24: 11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. 12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. 13 But he that shall endure "unto the end", the same "shall be saved".

So what can we determine about these Words of the Christ "of the Bible"?

#1. Hearing a few Words of Jesus by itself doesn't cause one to pass from death to life.

#2. Living by God's Word is essential for passing from death to Life, according to the Words of the Christ Jesus.

#3. In this world we live in, "MANY" will call Jesus Lord, Lord, preach in HIS Name, do all manner of things, in Christ's NAME, and they are all convinced they have passed from death unto life, but Jesus doesn't know them because they don't believe on the Words of His Father.

#4. Passing from death to life is a journey, an Exodus, a Path that we are to strive to enter.

#5. And the most dangerous thing for a true believer, is listening to the "MANY" who "Come in Christ's Name" but transgress God's Commandments by their man-made religious traditions.

I think Paul understands and taught the exact same thing.
Um John 5:24


John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

gives the same demarcation point as does

Colossians 2:13 (NASB95) — 13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

Ephesians 2:5 (NASB95) — 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Acts 16:30–31 (LEB) — 30 And he brought them outside and said, “Sirs, what must I do so that I can be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Titus 3:4–7 (LEB) — 4 But when the kindness and love for mankind of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not by deeds of righteousness that we have done, but because of his mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we may become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 10:9–10 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

Acts 2:21 (LEB) — 21 And it will be that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.’

Romans 8:24 (LEB) — 24 For in hope we were saved, but hope that is seen is not hope, for who hopes for what he sees?

Romans 10:13 (LEB) — 13 For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”


These are not man made traditions but the very word of God
 
I think Paul agrees with the Christ "of the bible" on these truths, at least this is his teaching when a man considers more than just one verse.

Col. 2: 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

8 Beware lest any man "spoil you" "through philosophy" and vain deceit, after the "tradition of men", after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

Rom. 11: 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, "if thou continue in his goodness": otherwise thou also "shalt be cut off".

Rom. 6: 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom "ye yield yourselves" servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin "unto death", or of obedience unto righteousness?

It's a dangerous thing to listen to the "other voice" in the garden God placed us in, who professes to know God, but convinces men that "They shall surely not die".

There is more to God's Salvation that just hearing a few of Jesus Words, or quoting a few of Paul's words.

Eph. 2: 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together "in heavenly places" in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of (Mans) works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we (Men who have Yielded themselves to God, and their bodies as instruments of righteousness unto God) are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus "unto good works", which "God hath before ordained" that we should "walk in them".

Rom. 2: 13(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

2 Cor. 5: 9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. 10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

It seems prudent to consider what the Bible actually says, when all of the Words are examined.
The words of the bible are seen here

 
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:23–24.

25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
John 5:25.

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
John 5:28.


If in this life we become born-again (we were dead) and now we what? Become alive? But then we die one day at the end of our lives. If we are changed from death into life, at the end of our existence here we die and are changed from life into death and to life.
John 5:24 can ONLY refer to our deaths and being changed at that time from death into life.
To be born again is to be made alive

John 5:24 clearly shows

He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, has passed from death to life.
 
To be born again is to be made alive
One is already alive when they become born-again. A dead person cannot be born-again.
But let your mind consider this. The penalty for sin is death. If Jesus died for our sin on the cross and we become born again, why do we still die? What sin causes us to die everyday all around the world born-again Christians die. What sin is to blame for their death if death is the penalty for sin?
Come back when you think you know the answer.
John 5:24 clearly shows

He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, has passed from death to life.
Lazarus was dead. He could do nothing to change his condition until Jesus Christ said, "Lazarus, Come forth!"
So, when a living person is born again, they are passed from life to life? Only a living person can be born-again and then they are changed from life to life - eternal life. BUT in time the person dies. I thought they received eternal life by being born-again. What happen here? I thought people that are born-again receive eternal life but in time everyone in dies. New land for cemeteries is being set aside every day around the world for people who die - Christian and non-Christian.

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezekiel 18:20.

23 For the wages of sin is death; Romans 6:23.

If Jesus Christ paid the penalty for our sin by dying on His cross a Substitutionary death, and death is the wages for sin, why do we still die? What sin kills us?
 
Romans 10:9-14 makes it clear one cannot deny Christ is Lord / YHWH and be saved but must confess He is YHWH/ Lord to be saved.

Your religion is much like the Pharisees obedience to the law.

hope this helps !!!
If I may...the issue Jesus had with the Pharisees and Sadducees was not their adherence to the Law. They were in compliance with the Law and Jesus never challenged them for their obedience to the Law.
The issue Jesus had with the religious leaders was that they elevated and exalted the 'traditions of men' above the Law. It's as if in our time we exalt teachings of MacArthur or the theology of Calvin above the Scripture. There were also rabbinical teachings that the religious leaders exalted above the plain teachings of Moses (Scripture.) Another issue between the religious leaders (not all of them) was that they only understood the letter of the Law and Jesus taught the spirit of the Law.
 
If I may...the issue Jesus had with the Pharisees and Sadducees was not their adherence to the Law. They were in compliance with the Law and Jesus never challenged them for their obedience to the Law.
The issue Jesus had with the religious leaders was that they elevated and exalted the 'traditions of men' above the Law. It's as if in our time we exalt teachings of MacArthur or the theology of Calvin above the Scripture. There were also rabbinical teachings that the religious leaders exalted above the plain teachings of Moses (Scripture.) Another issue between the religious leaders (not all of them) was that they only understood the letter of the Law and Jesus taught the spirit of the Law.
Here is my point below regarding Romans 10 I previously quoted for @Studyman

To Confess
NT:3670 ‎o(mologe/w ‎homologeo (hom-ol-og-eh'-o);

Strong's Concordance: to speak the same, to agree

Original Word: ὁμολογέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: homologeó
Phonetic Spelling: (hom-ol-og-eh'-o)
Definition: to speak the same, to agree
Usage: (a) I promise, agree, (b) I confess, (c) I publicly declare, (d) a Hebraism, I praise, celebrate.

3670 homologéō (from 3674 /homoú, "together" and 3004 /légō, "speak to a conclusion") – properly, to voice the same conclusion, i.e. agree ("confess"); to profess (confess) because in full agreement; to align with (endorse)

Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.

Here we see Paul quote this OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T.

Rom 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

So a person must confess Jesus is YHWH(Lord) to be saved. Confess means to agree with so the person confessing Jesus is Lord is in agreement that He is YHWH. Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord ( YHWH) will be saved.

hope this helps !!!
 
These are not man made traditions but the very word of God

No, what you are doing with the Very Word of God, is the tradition of the man-made religious system of this world that has gone on for centuries. You cherry pick through Scriptures looking for verses you can use to justify your specific religious sect just like the Pharisees did. While you omit the Scriptures which can't be used to justify your religion. You rail on the Calvinist for doing the very same thing. And the JW also, who exactly like you, ignore the Words of the Lord's Christ that they can't use to promote their own philosophy. Like the Pharisees, you accept some of God's Word given to us through HIS Christ, but not the Words that expose the corruption in their religion. Each religious sect and 501c3 has their own pet scriptures they use, while rejecting, ignoring and even refusing to acknowledge the Christ's Words that expose their hypocrisy. Our exchange is the perfect example of that as you refuse to even acknowledge the Scriptures I posted, or answer questions I posed concerning the Scriptures you posed. This is the tradition of the course of this world.

I believe all of the Christ's Words, and I understand that I cannot receive His true Message to me, by rejecting or ignoring half of what HE says. This is an Evil tradition you are engaged in here on your posts, although you are convinced it is not.

Jesus speaks to this, but the promoters of this world's religions won't hear Him.

John 3: For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. This is why you reject the Words of the Christ I posted, because they reprove your religious philosophy.

It is God's Law, given to us through Moses, that requires men to "Do" what the Messiah instructs.

Deut. 18: 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever "will not hearken" unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

But you won't even acknowledge much of His Instruction, in the exact same way the Pharisees refused to acknowledge much of the Same instruction.

It is truly fascinating that a man will read the instructions on how to operate a chainsaw, knowing that omitting or ignoring much of the instruction is bad. And yet, when it comes to the most important decisions in a man's life, concerning Salvation, they refuse to consider the instructions given by the Author. But I understand how seductive this "other voice" in the garden God placed us in is, as I also used to "walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience". But I know all men must "come out of her" to receive the Christ's Words, because Jesus said so.

What I advocate for is what Paul teaches.

Rom. 6: 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but "yield yourselves" unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

And what Jesus Advocated for.

Matt. 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not "live by" bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

It is my hope that there is someone on this forum that see's the hypocrisy in this wide-spread tradition, and I want them to know they are not alone.
 
Here is my point below regarding Romans 10 I previously quoted for @Studyman

To Confess
NT:3670 ‎o(mologe/w ‎homologeo (hom-ol-og-eh'-o);

Strong's Concordance: to speak the same, to agree

Original Word: ὁμολογέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: homologeó
Phonetic Spelling: (hom-ol-og-eh'-o)
Definition: to speak the same, to agree
Usage: (a) I promise, agree, (b) I confess, (c) I publicly declare, (d) a Hebraism, I praise, celebrate.

3670 homologéō (from 3674 /homoú, "together" and 3004 /légō, "speak to a conclusion") – properly, to voice the same conclusion, i.e. agree ("confess"); to profess (confess) because in full agreement; to align with (endorse)

Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.

Joel 2: 32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for "in mount Zion and in Jerusalem" shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

As the Jesus "of the Bible" teaches;

John 4: 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for "salvation is of the Jews".

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers "shall worship the Father" in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Duet. 18: 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put "my words" in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken "unto my words" which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

It is God's Law to be a "Doer" of His Christ's Sayings, not just a hearer Civic. You can read this for yourself.

"Doing" the Sayings of the Christ "IS" Yielding yourself to God in Worship to Him. And what does the Messiah that you call Lord, Lord, instruct you to do?

Matt. 4: 4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not "live by" bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Matt. 19: 17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

These are God's Words that HE placed in HIS Christ's Mouth. What I advocate for is "Harkening unto His Words".

Not "Got questions", not the "BBS", not the "Watchtower", not the Pope, not Oral Roberts, not Gamaliel or any other man who "Professes to know God". These are the "Other voice" in the garden God placed us in.

Here we see Paul quote this OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T.

Rom 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

So a person must confess Jesus is YHWH(Lord) to be saved. Confess means to agree with so the person confessing Jesus is Lord is in agreement that He is YHWH. Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord ( YHWH) will be saved.

My issue with this world's religious system Civic, is how they cherry pick through Scriptures and twist them to justify themselves. They omit Scriptures which can't be used to promote their religious philosophy. You point this out for the Calvinist and JW all the time, and Jesus said the Pharisees "lived by" the same traditions. But you do the exact same thing.

As a result, you don't know what Paul is teaching, and you even imply that Jesus was lying to us, when HE said, "21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven".

And what is the Will of the Father concerning our Messiah that HE sent? That we Harken to HIS Words that HE Spoke through the Mouth of His Son, Yes? And didn't the Jesus "of the Bible" also instruct you to be a "Doer" of His Sayings, and not a hearer only?

But you are promoting a religion who rejects God's Judgments that the Jesus "of the bible" said to Live By. You reject the Commandment the Jesus of the Bible said to Keep. You refuse to Worship the God and Father of the Lord's Christ that HE instructed you to worship.

How is that any different than disobedient Israel? Do you think that you are free to Mock God and long as you call Jesus Lord, Lord?

I simply advocate that men stop walking according to the course of this world. And from the heart, profess that Jesus is Lord, and advocate between His God and my God, and us.

How can you "Profess" that you believe in the Jesus "of the Bible" from the heart, if you refuse to "LIVE BY" His Instructions given to Him by His God and my God?
 
op: "Passed from death unto life"?
I'd like ask those here that "remember the event".... when it happened and how it happened.
Precious friend @praise_yeshua, thanks for asking:

Very well do I remember that Most Wonderful day, 27 years old, home alone, wife and kids out shopping, reading the National [ gossip ] Enquirer. Saw a full-page ad for free booklets about Heaven, Hell, and Home Life. Was an avid reader, so I figured "why not"? Called up the toll-free #, a kind Southern (accented) woman saint of God took my 'order' and when done, asked me: "May I ask you a question"? me: "Sure, why not?":

"If you died tonight, are you Absolutely Sure you would go to heaven?" Whoa! What!?! Of course,
raised in religion, I had to answer truthfully: "No ma'am, I am not!" Did I "believe I was a sinner"?
Yep, sure did!

Then she faithfully shared The Gospel Of The Death, Burial, and Resurrection Of The LORD
Jesus Christ
with me. Praise His Holy Name! I knew something was Different when she helped
me pray 'on the phone' That Special Day, humbly asking The Blessed Saviour To Forgive me.

After receiving the booklets and a monthly sermon newspaper, and studying The Bible, I found out
What Was Different!:

"Therefore, being Justified By Grace, we have Peace Through Jesus Christ our LORD"​
(Romans 5:1 AV)​
+
"And The Peace of God, Which Passeth All Understanding, Shall Keep ( 45 years later!​
And In Eternity!!) your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus." (Philippians 4:7 AV)​

Amen, And all thanks and Glory Be To God For His Undiluted Grace Upon me
That Day, Nevermore to fear His Undiluted Wrath! ( 'link' )
+
Also, unable to thank Him enough for "All spiritual blessings" (Ephesians 4:6 AV) That He
Graciously Bestowed Upon
me, utilizing the "sound mind" (1 Timothy 1:7 AV) He Gave me To:

"Always Stay
With All { Repeat: ALL [ Rules 2 & 5 of Bible Study Rules ] } The Scriptures!":

All Because Of The ALL-Sufficient BLOOD Of The LORD Jesus Christ!

Amen!
And:

Amen!! And thanks, precious friend, for sharing and listening - see you in:

God's Great GloryLand! 😇
 
Here is my point below regarding Romans 10 I previously quoted for @Studyman

To Confess
NT:3670 ‎o(mologe/w ‎homologeo (hom-ol-og-eh'-o);

Strong's Concordance: to speak the same, to agree

Original Word: ὁμολογέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: homologeó
Phonetic Spelling: (hom-ol-og-eh'-o)
Definition: to speak the same, to agree
Usage: (a) I promise, agree, (b) I confess, (c) I publicly declare, (d) a Hebraism, I praise, celebrate.

3670 homologéō (from 3674 /homoú, "together" and 3004 /légō, "speak to a conclusion") – properly, to voice the same conclusion, i.e. agree ("confess"); to profess (confess) because in full agreement; to align with (endorse)

Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.

Here we see Paul quote this OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T.

Rom 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

So a person must confess Jesus is YHWH(Lord) to be saved. Confess means to agree with so the person confessing Jesus is Lord is in agreement that He is YHWH. Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord ( YHWH) will be saved.

hope this helps !!!
Methinks you are reading Romans 10:9-10 incorrectly. Saul is not positing a formula for salvation. He is writing to believers who are already saved and quoting the Hebrew Scripture as a means of encouraging the believers at Rome.

5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it [Scripture]? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Romans 10:5–10.

Romans 10:6 is a quote from Deuteronomy 30

12 It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
Dt 30:12.

Romans 10:7 is a reference to John 3:13.
Although Saul disappeared for 14-17 years (depending on when one dates his Galatian letter), Saul disappeared to read and study the Scripture to more fully understand the New Covenant era Israel found herself in with the advent of the Holy Spirit of Promise given to Israel thus fulfilling a promise God gave to Joel for Israel.

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3:13.

Besides this Saul was a rabbi and Pharisee and he knew the Old Testament (Hebrew Scripture) like no man did of his time. The Holy Spirit may have brought the 'idea' of John 3:13 to mind or it could have been among the discussions he had with the apostles who may have told him this what Jesus said in conversation. Saul also makes this fact of Jesus' words in his Ephesian letter:

8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
Eph 4:8–10.

Ephesians 4: 8-10 refers to several quotations from the Old Testament.

Ephesians 4: 8 is a quote from Psalm 68:18

18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive:
Thou hast received gifts for men;
Yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.
Psalm 68:18.

Ephesians 4:9 is a quote from Psalm 63:9.

9 But those that seek my soul, to destroy it,
Shall go into the lower parts of the earth.
Ps 63:9.

Romans 10: 8 is a quote from Deuteronomy 30:13-14. Compare:

8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; Romans 10:7–8.

with

13 Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it?
14 But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. Deut. 30:13–14.

This passage by Saul may seem as though one can "call upon the Lord" and he can because first, the term "call upon the Lord" reads differently in Greek and translating it into English makes it sound as though one can "call upon the Lord" but the syntax and the term is from the Old Testament in Genesis and if refers to WORSHIP:

26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD. Genesis 4:26.

It doesn't mean that anyone can "call out to the Lord" and they can become saved. First, Saul is writing to Jews and Jewish Christians at Rome who would recognize the Old Testament reference being Jews, and second, Saul is writing to Jews and Jewish Christians at Rome who are already in covenant and accessing covenant promises - one of those promises is the right to "calling upon the LORD" or worship, and the other is that as covenant Jews of twelve tribes they are already slated to salvation by virtue of being under a schoolmaster, or under the Law and the sacrificial system of worship and atonement. In short, Saul is writing to his brethren (Jews) and to born-again Jewish Christians and Romans 10:9-10 are references to the Old Testament in order to "For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end you may be established;" (Romans 1:11.) How do I know Saul is addressing this letter to Jews saved or not is found in his benediction at the beginning:

7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called [to be] saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. Romans 1:7.

Israel is already under the sacrificial system of worship in that as Abraham's seed and called the children of Israel by God, they sacrifice an animal every Yom Kippur (every year) to atone for one year the sins of the children of Israel until the next year (Yom Kippur.)

The words "to be" in verse 7 is added by the translators and without it means that ONLY Israel is called saints by God. They are His holy people, a royal priesthood (Deut.) and being in covenant are yearly covered by the sacrifice for their sins. Thus, they are seen by God perpetually as really a "holy" and "separated" people unto God.
Saul is writing to Jews and Jewish Christians at Rome, and some of those Jews are also mixed heritage but still as Abraham's seed are still heirs according to the Promise(s.)
Yes, I know Gentile theology thinks Saul's letter to Rome is written to non-Hebrew Gentiles but that is not true. God has no covenant with non-Hebrews and Scripture/God says the [Gentile] nations are nothing before His sight.

17 All nations before him are as nothing;
And they are counted to him less than nothing, and vanity.
Isaiah 40:17.

That's the truth of the matter. Non-Hebrews got nothing coming to them of God.
 
No, what you are doing with the Very Word of God, is the tradition of the man-made religious system of this world that has gone on for centuries. You cherry pick through Scriptures looking for verses you can use to justify your specific religious sect just like the Pharisees did. While you omit the Scriptures which can't be used to justify your religion. You rail on the Calvinist for doing the very same thing. And the JW also, who exactly like you, ignore the Words of the Lord's Christ that they can't use to promote their own philosophy. Like the Pharisees, you accept some of God's Word given to us through HIS Christ, but not the Words that expose the corruption in their religion. Each religious sect and 501c3 has their own pet scriptures they use, while rejecting, ignoring and even refusing to acknowledge the Christ's Words that expose their hypocrisy. Our exchange is the perfect example of that as you refuse to even acknowledge the Scriptures I posted, or answer questions I posed concerning the Scriptures you posed. This is the tradition of the course of this world.

I believe all of the Christ's Words, and I understand that I cannot receive His true Message to me, by rejecting or ignoring half of what HE says. This is an Evil tradition you are engaged in here on your posts, although you are convinced it is not.

Jesus speaks to this, but the promoters of this world's religions won't hear Him.

John 3: For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. This is why you reject the Words of the Christ I posted, because they reprove your religious philosophy.

It is God's Law, given to us through Moses, that requires men to "Do" what the Messiah instructs.

Deut. 18: 18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. 19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever "will not hearken" unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.

But you won't even acknowledge much of His Instruction, in the exact same way the Pharisees refused to acknowledge much of the Same instruction.

It is truly fascinating that a man will read the instructions on how to operate a chainsaw, knowing that omitting or ignoring much of the instruction is bad. And yet, when it comes to the most important decisions in a man's life, concerning Salvation, they refuse to consider the instructions given by the Author. But I understand how seductive this "other voice" in the garden God placed us in is, as I also used to "walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience". But I know all men must "come out of her" to receive the Christ's Words, because Jesus said so.

What I advocate for is what Paul teaches.

Rom. 6: 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but "yield yourselves" unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

And what Jesus Advocated for.

Matt. 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not "live by" bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

It is my hope that there is someone on this forum that see's the hypocrisy in this wide-spread tradition, and I want them to know they are not alone.
You did not address a single verse

Why?

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

gives the same demarcation point as does

Colossians 2:13 (NASB95) — 13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

Ephesians 2:5 (NASB95) — 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Acts 16:30–31 (LEB) — 30 And he brought them outside and said, “Sirs, what must I do so that I can be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Titus 3:4–7 (LEB) — 4 But when the kindness and love for mankind of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not by deeds of righteousness that we have done, but because of his mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we may become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 10:9–10 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

Acts 2:21 (LEB) — 21 And it will be that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.’

Romans 8:24 (LEB) — 24 For in hope we were saved, but hope that is seen is not hope, for who hopes for what he sees?

Romans 10:13 (LEB) — 13 For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”


but you speak of believing all of the word yet of the nine verses you will not address a one
 
One is already alive when they become born-again. A dead person cannot be born-again.
But let your mind consider this. The penalty for sin is death. If Jesus died for our sin on the cross and we become born again, why do we still die? What sin causes us to die everyday all around the world born-again Christians die. What sin is to blame for their death if death is the penalty for sin?
Come back when you think you know the answer.
Colossians 2:13 (LEB) — 13 And although you were dead in the trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
 
Colossians 2:13 (LEB) — 13 And although you were dead in the trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, he made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,
Answer my question.

Fact #1. Death is the penalty for sin.
Fact #2. Jesus Christ died a substitutionary death for the sins of His people.
Fact #3. When a person is born-again their sin has been atoned by the death of Jesus Christ on the cross and the person receives eternal life.

If the above is true, why do we still die? I thought Jesus paid the penalty for sin, which is death and when we are born-again, we are given eternal life in Christ, but we still die at the end of our lives on earth.
What sin was not paid for by Jesus Christ that results in our death at the end of our lives?
Do you know?
 
Answer my question.

Fact #1. Death is the penalty for sin.
Fact #2. Jesus Christ died a substitutionary death for the sins of His people.
Fact #3. When a person is born-again their sin has been atoned by the death of Jesus Christ on the cross and the person receives eternal life.

If the above is true, why do we still die? I thought Jesus paid the penalty for sin, which is death and when we are born-again, we are given eternal life in Christ, but we still die at the end of our lives on earth.
What sin was not paid for by Jesus Christ that results in our death at the end of our lives?
Do you know?
Eternal life is more than just physical life. It is reconnection with God the source of life.

Will you deny what you affirmed in #3 above

Fact #3. When a person is born-again their sin has been atoned by the death of Jesus Christ on the cross and the person receives eternal life.

You called it a fact thus you affirmed my argument.

Sin is forgiven - all sin for those in Christ

Those in Christ will receive a new body better suited to their new life



 
Eternal life is more than just physical life. It is reconnection with God the source of life.

Will you deny what you affirmed in #3 above

Fact #3. When a person is born-again their sin has been atoned by the death of Jesus Christ on the cross and the person receives eternal life.

You called it a fact thus you affirmed my argument.

Sin is forgiven - all sin for those in Christ

Those in Christ will receive a new body better suited to their new life
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:24.

If a person is alive, becomes born-again, they receive everlasting life and are passed from life to life to death (when the die) to life?

How does a person who receives "everlasting life" pass from death to life if they are alive when they become born-again, receive everlasting life, and pass from death to life? How does this happen? If they are in possession of everlasting life where does the death come in? Be specific.
 
You did not address a single verse

Why?

This is why it is useless to try and have any kind of intellectually honest discussion about what the Bible actually teaches, with a promoter of one of this world's religious sects. It's the same with the Pharisees, JW, Baptists, Calvinists and on and on. It is truly the "course of this world" to engage in such dishonest behavior. Everyone knows I addressed this John 5 verse when you first posted it, in great detail in posts #10, #13 and #19. I addressed the Scriptures you posted in detail, by considering more of Paul's words, not just a verse here or there that is commonly used to promote Calvinism or Catholicism or Arminianism or whatever religious 501c3 that is being promoted, I even asked you questions about the philosophy you have adopted using Jn. 5 and Col. 2, and Eph. 2. I even posted many scriptures in which Jesus and Paul expound on what it means to "confess" Jesus is the Messiah that Moses spoke of, and what it means to "Believe on" HIS God that sent Him. I asked you about that as well.

And you ignored EVERY Scripture I posted, EVERY question concerning them that I asked, and you still are.

I knew you would engage in this tradition of yours because I have seen you practice it many times in the past, and I said as much. And your replies have proven this awful tradition of this world's religious system you are promoting, perfectly.

Again, I understand how popular the religious tradition of this world's religious system is, of cherry-picking scriptures and translation shopping for the purpose of justifying seductive philosophies promoted by this world's religions. And I also understand that the promoters of the "course of this world" will not engage in any honest conversation that might expose an error in their philosophy. The promoters of the mainstream religious sects of Jesus Time, "Who professed to know God" showed this truth pretty clearly.

So It would be foolish to spend too much time with you, if you continue ignoring the Words of Christ that I post, and the questions I pose.

Clearly that time has come, and so it's time to shake the dust when you become so emboldened, and so literally dishonest, that you post a complete lie like the lie you have told here, "You did not address a single verse."

I hope others who have also witnessed or experienced these same religious traditions will understand that Jesus Himself warned about this very thing, as did the Prophets before HIM. And that HE said "Be ye not therefore like unto them". And to "Come out of her" so that we will not become as the "MANY" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, but refuse to abide by His Instruction.
 
This is why it is useless to try and have any kind of intellectually honest discussion about what the Bible actually teaches, with a promoter of one of this world's religious sects. It's the same with the Pharisees, JW, Baptists, Calvinists and on and on. It is truly the "course of this world" to engage in such dishonest behavior. Everyone knows I addressed this John 5 verse when you first posted it, in great detail in posts #10, #13 and #19. I addressed the Scriptures you posted in detail, by considering more of Paul's words, not just a verse here or there that is commonly used to promote Calvinism or Catholicism or Arminianism or whatever religious 501c3 that is being promoted, I even asked you questions about the philosophy you have adopted using Jn. 5 and Col. 2, and Eph. 2. I even posted many scriptures in which Jesus and Paul expound on what it means to "confess" Jesus is the Messiah that Moses spoke of, and what it means to "Believe on" HIS God that sent Him. I asked you about that as well.

And you ignored EVERY Scripture I posted, EVERY question concerning them that I asked, and you still are.

I knew you would engage in this tradition of yours because I have seen you practice it many times in the past, and I said as much. And your replies have proven this awful tradition of this world's religious system you are promoting, perfectly.



Clearly that time has come, and so it's time to shake the dust when you become so emboldened, and so literally dishonest, that you post a complete lie like the lie you have told here, "You did not address a single verse."

I hope others who have also witnessed or experienced these same religious traditions will understand that Jesus Himself warned about this very thing, as did the Prophets before HIM. And that HE said "Be ye not therefore like unto them". And to "Come out of her" so that we will not become as the "MANY" who call Jesus Lord, Lord, but refuse to abide by His Instruction.
Um all the scriptures I posted prove my point

You did not address a single verse

Why?

John 5:24 (LEB) — 24 Truly, truly I say to you that the one who hears my word and who believes the one who sent me has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.

gives the same demarcation point as does

Colossians 2:13 (NASB95) — 13 When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,

Ephesians 2:5 (NASB95) — 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Acts 16:30–31 (LEB) — 30 And he brought them outside and said, “Sirs, what must I do so that I can be saved?” 31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Titus 3:4–7 (LEB) — 4 But when the kindness and love for mankind of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not by deeds of righteousness that we have done, but because of his mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we may become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 10:9–10 (LEB) — 9 that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

Acts 2:21 (LEB) — 21 And it will be that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.’

Romans 8:24 (LEB) — 24 For in hope we were saved, but hope that is seen is not hope, for who hopes for what he sees?

Romans 10:13 (LEB) — 13 For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.”


but you speak of believing all of the word yet of the nine verses you will not address a one

you cannot disprove scripture by asking questions

and let us look at some questions you posted

I even asked you questions about the philosophy you have adopted using Jn. 5 and Col. 2, and Eph. 2. I even posted many scriptures in which Jesus and Paul expound on what it means to "confess" Jesus is the Messiah that Moses spoke of, and what it means to "Believe on" HIS God that sent Him. I asked you about that as well.

How does addressing those questions prove or disprove the reality of a change from death to life upon faith?
 
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:24.

If a person is alive, becomes born-again, they receive everlasting life and are passed from life to life to death (when the die) to life?

How does a person who receives "everlasting life" pass from death to life if they are alive when they become born-again, receive everlasting life, and pass from death to life? How does this happen? If they are in possession of everlasting life where does the death come in? Be specific.
The point under discussion is the passing of death to life

The verse affirms it

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:24.

The fact is established

One passes from a state of spiritual death to life upon faith
'
or from a position of alienation to a position of union with God who is the source of life
 
The point under discussion is the passing of death to life
This occurs when we die a natural death at the end of our lives, by sickness, or by accident. We are paying a wage for sin. We die.
The verse affirms it

24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:24.

The fact is established

One passes from a state of spiritual death to life upon faith
'
or from a position of alienation to a position of union with God who is the source of life
Source of life?
We still die. How do you reconcile this?
The wage for sin is death. We still die.
 
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