What's Wrong with Calvinism?

[brightfame52]

By the word

By His Power, yet the word Will be utilized, but the word in letter only has no power or effect I showed you this once before 1 Thess 1:5

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

 

[FreeInChrist]

They are drawn by God, The Father or The Son Jn 6: 44; 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

His Power is being exerted.

And the end result is they are drawn unto Christ!

The Word is the Son.

 

[brightfame52]

The Word is the Son.

Christ is God, the power of God, the drawing is by the Power of God

 

[praise_yeshua]

Favorite topic is Salvation and Gods love. The one I know the best is eternal security.

I was never a Calvinist, my husband was but he left if. I know a lot about "Calvinism and Armininism". but I'm not and never have been ether one.

Good topics. Good desires.

I believe seeking God leads to knowing God. Those that seek, find. I know that sounds somewhat "Calvinistic" but I also believe our innate construct that came from God through Adam leads us to so many many things.

I believe we actually have to resist God emotionally to avoid Him.

 

[TomL]

By His Power, yet the word Will be utilized, but the word in letter only has no power or effect I showed you this once before 1 Thess 1:5

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.

Power is seen here

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:17–18For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to proclaim the gospel, not with clever speech, lest the cross of Christ be emptied. For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

For you to claim there is no power in the gospel is to deny scripture

 

[brightfame52]

Power is seen here

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:17–18For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to proclaim the gospel, not with clever speech, lest the cross of Christ be emptied. For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

For you to claim there is no power in the gospel is to deny scripture

It's God's Power

 

[TomL]

It's God's Power

This concerns God's word—the gospel.

In your view it has no power, as no one can believe it.

However, Power is seen here.

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

1 Cor 1:17–18For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to proclaim the gospel, not with clever speech, lest the cross of Christ be emptied. For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

For you to claim there is no power in the gospel is to deny scripture.

 

[brightfame52]

This concerns God's word—the gospel

It's about God's Power, God draws, the text explicitly stated it

 

[Presby02]

no man meant no man that Jesus was talking to which were the Jews who already listened and learned from the Father. The Jews who did not listen and learn from the Father also rejected the Son.

CONTEXT

So no man means some men then. You can just say yes.

So when Christ told Nicodemus he must be born again just Nicodemus had to be born again?

 

[Presby02]

The issue being discussed is salvation through faith

regarding your comment

"Your saved by grace THROUGH faith. Not because of"

You were first shown that the word through can mean because of

And you are clearly in error as the verse shows faith must exist if salvation is through faith

The phrase "something is through another" can have different meanings depending on context. Here are a few interpretations:
1. Causal or Instrumental Relationship
Meaning: One thing happens or exists because of another.
• Example: “She succeeded through hard work.” → Her success was made possible by hard work.
• Example: “We booked the trip through a travel agent.” → The travel agent was the intermediary.

Rom 10:9–10

that if you confess with your mouth “Jesus is Lord” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth one confesses, resulting in salvation.

Clearly, faith is a precondition to salvation.

Acts 16:31

And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, you and your household!”

Mark 16:16

The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.

John 3:16

For in this way God loved the world, so that he gave his one and only Son, in order that everyone who believes in him will not perish, but will have eternal life.

Exactly. Thank you. Through, not because of. We have faith because it has been given by Gods grace.

Grant means because of? So when I say I grant you permission I mean I because of you permission?

 

[Presby02]

Nowhere did such happen

The opposite however did



You claimed the word "through" cannot mean because and you were contradicted by the copilot search

Copilot search

The word "through" can indicate "because of" in certain contexts, but it is not interchangeable.

• Usage: "Through" can mean "because of" when referring to a means or method, as in "He succeeded through hard work"

Grant can mean to permit or enable.

So the method is Gods grace. This does not help you. It only bolsters my case. Thanks!

So if i grant you permission i am permitting you permission or enabling you permission?

 

[Presby02]

They are drawn by God, The Father or The Son Jn 6: 44; 12:32

32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

His Power is being exerted.

And the end result is they are drawn unto Christ!

Thats not what it indicates at all. LOL Your making it up. I had to stop reading after that beauty.

Good to see you quoting John Knox though.

 

[Presby02]

I stated No in response to

Can you come before being drawn?

Now will you respond?

Men are drawn by the word

John 6:45 (LEB) — 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who hears from the Father and learns comes to me.

Romans 10:17 (LEB) — 17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

2 Timothy 3:15 (LEB) — 15 and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

And yes we are responsible to respond to the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
1 Cor 15:1–4 Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel which I proclaimed to you, which you have also received, in which you also stand, by which you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the message I proclaimed to you, unless you believed to no purpose. For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised up on the third day according to the scriptures,
1 Cor 1:18 For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

So if your not drawn your not response-able correct?

Men are drawn when they understand the word and that understanding comes from God.

 

[brightfame52]

Thats not what it indicates at all.

Yes it does

 

[TomL]

So if your not drawn your not response-able correct?

Men are drawn when they understand the word and that understanding comes from God.

Are you ageeing that Men are drawn by the word

John 6:45 (LEB) — 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they will all be taught by God.’ Everyone who hears from the Father and learns comes to me.

Romans 10:17 (LEB) — 17 Consequently, faith comes by hearing, and hearing through the word about Christ.

John 20:31 (LEB) — 31 but these things are recorded in order that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.

2 Timothy 3:15 (LEB) — 15 and that from childhood you have known the holy writings that are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

And yes we are responsible to respond to the gospel which is the power of God unto salvation

And that the gospel is the power of God?

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
1 Cor 15:1–4 Now I make known to you, brothers, the gospel which I proclaimed to you, which you have also received, in which you also stand, by which you are also being saved, if you hold fast to the message I proclaimed to you, unless you believed to no purpose. For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised up on the third day according to the scriptures,
1 Cor 1:18 For the message about the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

[TomL]

So the method is Gods grace. This does not help you. It only bolsters my case. Thanks!

So if i grant you permission i am permitting you permission or enabling you permission?

Wrong again.

And it does not bolster your case, which has God regenerating men before they can believe, which is totally unbiblical, as was shown by multiple verses that you were not able to address.


Those who do not believe will not see life



John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.



John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.



Mark 16:16 The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who refuses to believe will be condemned.



John 8:24 Thus I said to you that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am he, you will die in your sins.”



1 John 5:12 The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.



1 John 5:10–13 (The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself. The one who does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning his Son.) And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. The one who has the Son has the life; the one who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life.



So scripture refutes Calvinism’s belief that unbelievers may be given life so that they may believe

But back to the issue concerning the word through

Previously posted

Nowhere did such happen

The opposite, however, did



You claimed the word "through" cannot mean because and you were contradicted by the copilot search

Copilot search

The word "through" can indicate "because of" in certain contexts, but it is not interchangeable.

• Usage: "Through" can mean "because of" when referring to a means or method, as in "He succeeded through hard work"

Grant can mean to permit or enable.

So will you affirm men are saved because of faith?

 

[TomL]

Exactly. Thank you. Through, not because of. We have faith because it has been given by Gods grace.

Grant means because of? So when I say I grant you permission I mean I because of you permission?

Give it up

Your position that we are regenerated and then believe is clearly shown to be unbiblical.

And the evidence presented showed because is a valid meaning of through.

God draws through his word, which may or may not be believed.

 

[civic]

So no man means some men then. You can just say yes.

So when Christ told Nicodemus he must be born again just Nicodemus had to be born again?

no man means no man that Jesus was talking to- its called context.

just like you would say all the world means some men, not all mankind in all the world.

you cannot have your cake and eat it too.

 

[civic]

Give it up

Your position that we are regenerated and then believe is clearly shown to be unbiblical.

And the evidence presented showed because is a valid meaning of through.

God draws through his word, which may or may not be believed.

ditto